Author Topic: Nemanja Bjelica trade ideas  (Read 5928 times)

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Re: Nemanja Bjelica?
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2020, 04:55:45 PM »

Offline byennie

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I we could get him for Poirier, Wanamaker and a 2nd rounder the value seems ok -- but I'd want Tremont Waters on an NBA contract before I let go of a point guard, and I'm not sure that's an option.

Or Semi instead, but it's hard to gauge his value given that he's cheap, plays defense, and at least some believe he can slow down Giannis.

Re: Nemanja Bjelica?
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2020, 05:24:46 PM »

Offline wiley

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I we could get him for Poirier, Wanamaker and a 2nd rounder the value seems ok -- but I'd want Tremont Waters on an NBA contract before I let go of a point guard, and I'm not sure that's an option.

Or Semi instead, but it's hard to gauge his value given that he's cheap, plays defense, and at least some believe he can slow down Giannis.

Now that I can get behind....and yes to the NBA contract for Waters.

Re: Nemanja Bjelica?
« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2020, 05:35:01 PM »

Offline Monkhouse

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I like Wanamaker, and he seems more decisive when driving, although he has limited tunnel vision in that same scenario.

But I'm ready to see what Waters can bring to the table. I think his energy reminds me of Larkin + Pressey. But his defense is definitely a lot better than those two.

I we could get him for Poirier, Wanamaker and a 2nd rounder the value seems ok -- but I'd want Tremont Waters on an NBA contract before I let go of a point guard, and I'm not sure that's an option.

Or Semi instead, but it's hard to gauge his value given that he's cheap, plays defense, and at least some believe he can slow down Giannis.

I still would like to hold onto Semi. You never know if his shot could ever improve.
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Trade for Nemanja Bjelica - Sacramento Kings (idea)
« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2020, 09:34:31 PM »

Offline RodyTur10

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This will be a long explanation why I'm advocating for Bjelica (I'm sorry I know it beforehand, can't help myself), so let's just start with my trade proposal ( :laugh:):

To Boston Celtics: Nemanja Bjelica
To Sacramento Kings: Grant Williams + Vincent Poirier


or if Sacramento would accept it (much preferred):

To Boston Celtics: Nemanja Bjelica
To Sacramento Kings: Carsen Edwards  + Javonte Green + Vincent Poirier + '20 Boston pick



Poirier is salaryfiller. I think Sacramento would insist on Grant Williams or another promising prospect. Since Grant has been hot lately his trading value could be trending up. Even though Langford is a huge question mark I believe his ceiling is much higher than that of Grant Williams, who will always have problems guarding and rebounding in the post due to lack of height, so I'm not looking to trade Langford (or Robert Williams, who I favor as well).

Even though I much prefer the second proposal, it's always the case that you have to give up something valuable to get something, so probably the second proposal isn't realistic.

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Like, I believe, many other fans the Celtics are doing better than expected. Even though it's all really close in the East from 2-6 and the Celtics only have the 8th best record currently there's a lot to like. Of the 13 teams that are reasonable locks for the playoffs (see standings) the Celtics have the 3rd best point differential (with the Bucks being a massive outlier on top) and are 5th in OR and 4th in DR.

All that while the Celtics hardly ever played with all their main rotation players available. That might be true for a lot of other teams as well, but we can all agree that the Celtics' bench is not deep and that missing one or two key players makes us vulnerable. So that makes me quite optimistic about the level the Celtics can reach with a healthy squad. I think it's dumb to get discouraged by the amazing numbers the Bucks are producing like the Warriors in past years.

How can we improve the team? Obtaining an All Star level big (Davis, Embiid, Gobert, Jokic, Towns) or a superstar wing (Antetokounmpo, Leonard, James, George, Siakam(?), Doncic) would be great, but also very unrealistic. So what weaknesses can we address? We don't have a center or a big wing to guard either previously named superstar or Khris Middleton (LOL).

But I actually don't think there are elite defensive centers out there who are significantly better than Theis and worth the cost. Apart from other All Stars I rate Anunoby (Raptors) and Isaac (Magic) very highly as defensive specialists, but I don't see why these teams would give them up to us. I like Bonga (Wizards) for the future, but right now he's probably not better than Ojeleye. So that leaves us with the conclusion that the Celtics won't have a player who's able to contain any opposing superstar.

That sounds discouraging, but the Celtics just have to defend by committee like they have always done (although I admit not having Horford anymore on that end is still a challenge). One area that has been a point of concern for years: rebounding, has been addressed quite well (6th in DREB and 4th in OREB of all current playoff teams). Another issue has always been (3-point) shooting, which I find quite strange as I believe that should be a strength of a team that has 4 capable scorers on all three levels.

Right now the Celtics are 14th overall in 3-point-shooting-percentage and 9th of current playoff teams, so very average. But that might not give a true picture of our capabilities come playoff time as we've seen some role players (G.Williams, Edwards, Theis, Green, Waters) struggle immensely with their shot. They have become better during the season or won't play when it matters. Over the last 10 games the Celtics are actually 6th overall in 3-point-shooting.

However, knowing coach Stevens' system many of us are afraid that even if we can play with the big guns we'll shoot ourselves out of it by bricking 3-pointers like we've done in previous post-seasons like most notably against the Cavs in the 2018 conference finals.

Let's recall the 3-point numbers during that series (Baynes excluded, since he took only 4 shots):

Rozier: 7,3 attempts on 25,5% (brutally bad)
Brown: 6,7 attempts on 36,2% (good)
Smart: 4,4 attempts on 22,6% (terrible)
Morris: 4,0 attempts on 46,4%(superb)
Tatum: 3,7 attempts on 34,6% (mediocre)
Horford: 2,6 attempts on 33,3% (mediocre)
Ojeleye: 1,4 attempts on 14,3% (terrible)


So with three of those players gone it's already a different team. Smart (and Ojeleye???) has improved his 3-point-shot, while Walker (39% playoff-career) and Hayward (37% playoff-career) are reliable additions from distance. I agree with the notion that the Celtics currently have seven playoff-worthy rotation players. If we exclude the centers Kanter and Theis, the other guys are shooting for the season (makes/percentage):

Walker (3,5/39,4%), Smart (2,3/35,0%), Tatum (2,4/36,6%), Brown (2,1/39,1%) and Hayward (1,5/36,8%). So Walker is absolutely elite, while the others are doing okay or quite well. While it seems illogical to go for another wing, that's exactly how I think the Celtics can make a big improvement by not having to play a player regularly who doesn't add much, is inexperienced or a possible liability from the perimeter. Embrace the 3-point-shot and make it a big weapon that opens up the court.

A player that has been named on this blog is Davis Bertans, who has a very impressive season, but he's a free agent this off-season and if I'm correct we wouldn't be allowed to re-sign him for more than the “Non-Bird”-exception (120% of his current 7 million salary) which won't be enough. Nemanja Bjelica on the other hand has a teamfriendly contract for next year as well (7,1 mln).   

Bjelica is a player who's flying a bit under the radar, but could fit right in the system. Lets look at his season and career stats, which are very (perhaps surprisingly) good. Bjelica is a 6-10 - 235, power forward, 31 years old and it is his 5th year in the NBA.

Over the last 3 seasons, mr Bjelica has shown to be a very good shooter (3P: 644 shots at 41,5%, 2P: 758 shots at 52,9% and FT: 189 shots at 79,9%, which is around 59 TS%), a capable passer 349 assists/202 TO and a good rebounder with a 19,3 DRB%. While advanced stats suggest that he's an adequate defender. (source: basketball-reference)

For the season Bjelica is averaging over 45 games: 28 MPG / 12,4 PPG / 6,5 REB / 2,6 ASS.
More details: 2,0 3FGM per game at 43,1%, an 1,71 ASS/TO ratio, 18,4 DREB% and 60,6 TS% (source: nba.com)

If we filter all NBA-players (minimum 15 games, >1 3FGM, >35 3P%, >1,4 A/T ratio, >15 DREB%) we're left with a small group: Bjelica, Ariza, Hayward, O'Neale, Ingram, Aldridge, Towns, Ingram, Leonard, T. Harris and Gallinari.

However this was a light filter, since the numbers by Bjelica are far better. Increase them just a little bit (>1 3FGM, >37 3P%, >1,5 A/T ratio, >16 DREB%) and the only other player in the NBA who fits those criteria is Danilo Gallinari (who's a worse rebounder and defender). I know that Bjelica is a role player, so I'm obviously not saying he's better than those players or some star, since taking on a bigger role on offense will decrease efficiency. But I think this is indicative that Bjelica is an underrated player.

Generally buy-out signings are overrated and won't net you a positive contributor (remember Greg Monroe), although the mentioned trade would open roster spot(s). Perhaps Biyombo, Mahinmi or Henson becomes available to be signed for depth at the center position.

The Celtics rotation would be quite simple (guards: Walker, Brown, Smart / wings: Tatum, Hayward, Bjelica / center: Theis, Kanter), where Wanamaker, Ojeleye and Timelord are emergency back-ups.

If you have read this till the end: thank you  :)

Re: Trade for Nemanja Bjelica - Sacramento Kings (idea)
« Reply #19 on: January 26, 2020, 09:38:52 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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Not against the idea but think DA lets the season play out. I feel DA is confident in the guys he brought in this past offseason and won't deal them.

Re: Trade for Nemanja Bjelica - Sacramento Kings (idea)
« Reply #20 on: January 26, 2020, 09:41:36 PM »

Offline gouki88

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I want Bjelica - the proposal I posted for him the other day was an overpay, but I’d happily do the latter of these. Not giving up Grant though.
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

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Re: Nemanja Bjelica trade ideas
« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2020, 10:05:23 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I don't think Bjelica alone moves the needle and since I don't think he would be a long term addition, I'd only do it for very minor players or pieces. 
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Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
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Re: Nemanja Bjelica trade ideas
« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2020, 07:16:54 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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He is tall, decent rebounder and can shoot and pass but he doesn't move the dial for you?  I know he is not known as defender.

Re: Nemanja Bjelica trade ideas
« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2020, 07:25:38 AM »

Offline Birdman

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I take him over anyone on the bench except Enes..worst bench in NBA
C/PF-Horford, Baynes, Noel, Theis, Morris,
SF/SG- Tatum, Brown, Hayward, Smart, Semi, Clark
PG- Irving, Rozier, Larkin

Re: Nemanja Bjelica trade ideas
« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2020, 09:03:02 AM »

Offline Moranis

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He is tall, decent rebounder and can shoot and pass but he doesn't move the dial for you?  I know he is not known as defender.
He would improve the bench of course, but I don't think he would move Boston into the next tier or make Boston a legit contender.  I want to win titles and any trade that doesn't serve that purpose is a waste to me.  I'd rather use the assets to help with that goal.  So yeah, for minor pieces that I don't think would be around or are worth much, I'd happily upgrade the bench with Bjelica, but I'm not giving up 1st round picks or legit young players with potential (like Langford or the Williams) for older bench players that won't be around in a few seasons when hopefully Tatum and Brown are able to be a 1 and a 2 on a legit contender. 
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Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
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Re: Nemanja Bjelica trade ideas
« Reply #25 on: January 27, 2020, 09:38:17 AM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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I like Bjelica, but in the playoffs he will be isolated on defense time and again. If you think Kanter struggles in pick-and-roll defense, you haven't seen anything yet.

Re: Nemanja Bjelica trade ideas
« Reply #26 on: January 27, 2020, 07:54:38 PM »

Offline RodyTur10

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How about trading for both Bjelica and Holmes?

Trading for two legit rotation players, which will solve the problem of our poor bench.

To Celtics: Nemanja Bjelica and Richaun Holmes
To Kings: Grant Williams, Carsen Edwards, Vincent Poirier, Javonte Green + '20 Bucks pick


New playoff rotation:

Walker 36 mins
Brown 36 mins
Tatum 36 mins
Hayward 36 mins
Theis 24 mins

Smart 24 mins
Bjelica 20 mins
Kanter 16 mins
Holmes 12 mins
« Last Edit: January 27, 2020, 08:04:53 PM by RodyTur10 »

Re: Nemanja Bjelica trade ideas
« Reply #27 on: January 27, 2020, 10:19:56 PM »

Offline tstorey_97

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I am unsure if Bjelica is an "Ainge kind of player."

Semi and Williams are the poster children of a low scoring bench, but, in the last 4 or 5 weeks Grant has stabilized and Semi is 37% from the field and 38% from three.

No one on the Celtic's bench needs to score. I understand  we want Lou Williams, but he isn't out there. As an exercise, use this as a rotation.

Walker
Smart (doesn't need to score)
Brown
Tatum
Theis (doesn't need to score)

Hayward
Kanter
Semi (doesn't need to score)

Stevens is already doing a version of this with Tatum rotating out early and then joining the bench.

My point with this silliness? The Celtics don't need bench scoring. With everyone healthy, they have four very solid scoring options.

Smart, Theis, Kanter do not need to score, Lord knows, if Hayward is on the court, he is the best shooter the Celtics have and should be taking the shots not distributing the ball around. The team has people who can facilitate, Hayward is paid (a lot) to score....a lot.

Thus, the team, if healthy does not need another guy that needs to take shots...we got them.

I agree, the team is small and a guy who is big would be nice, it's just that the freaks are all taken and we have the "problem" of having four starters who could, with planned shot distribution, average 20 points a game each and that means "trading for offense" while fun, is cuckoo.


 

Re: Nemanja Bjelica trade ideas
« Reply #28 on: January 28, 2020, 07:21:15 AM »

Offline RodyTur10

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I am unsure if Bjelica is an "Ainge kind of player."

Semi and Williams are the poster children of a low scoring bench, but, in the last 4 or 5 weeks Grant has stabilized and Semi is 37% from the field and 38% from three.

No one on the Celtic's bench needs to score. I understand  we want Lou Williams, but he isn't out there. As an exercise, use this as a rotation.

Walker
Smart (doesn't need to score)
Brown
Tatum
Theis (doesn't need to score)

Hayward
Kanter
Semi (doesn't need to score)

Stevens is already doing a version of this with Tatum rotating out early and then joining the bench.

My point with this silliness? The Celtics don't need bench scoring. With everyone healthy, they have four very solid scoring options.

Smart, Theis, Kanter do not need to score, Lord knows, if Hayward is on the court, he is the best shooter the Celtics have and should be taking the shots not distributing the ball around. The team has people who can facilitate, Hayward is paid (a lot) to score....a lot.

Thus, the team, if healthy does not need another guy that needs to take shots...we got them.

I agree, the team is small and a guy who is big would be nice, it's just that the freaks are all taken and we have the "problem" of having four starters who could, with planned shot distribution, average 20 points a game each and that means "trading for offense" while fun, is cuckoo.

I think it hurts the team when you have either Ojeleye or G.Williams on the court who are question marks from the 3-point-line and don't provide anything else than man-to-man defense (no rebounding or rim protection from these two). Bjelica is just a much better basketball player. He's a good passer, rebounder and shooter. That will help open the court for our Big Four. It will also put further restrictions on Smart who tends to shoot too much as being a 3-point-decoy. You can have Bjelica to do that and keep defenses honest.

Also with Bjelica being bigger and more experienced I'm not sure how much defense you're actually giving up as both Ojeleye and G.Williams lack length to be elite defenders.

Re: Nemanja Bjelica trade ideas
« Reply #29 on: January 28, 2020, 08:12:06 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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I am unsure if Bjelica is an "Ainge kind of player."

Semi and Williams are the poster children of a low scoring bench, but, in the last 4 or 5 weeks Grant has stabilized and Semi is 37% from the field and 38% from three.

No one on the Celtic's bench needs to score. I understand  we want Lou Williams, but he isn't out there. As an exercise, use this as a rotation.

Walker
Smart (doesn't need to score)
Brown
Tatum
Theis (doesn't need to score)

Hayward
Kanter
Semi (doesn't need to score)

Stevens is already doing a version of this with Tatum rotating out early and then joining the bench.

My point with this silliness? The Celtics don't need bench scoring. With everyone healthy, they have four very solid scoring options.

Smart, Theis, Kanter do not need to score, Lord knows, if Hayward is on the court, he is the best shooter the Celtics have and should be taking the shots not distributing the ball around. The team has people who can facilitate, Hayward is paid (a lot) to score....a lot.

Thus, the team, if healthy does not need another guy that needs to take shots...we got them.

I agree, the team is small and a guy who is big would be nice, it's just that the freaks are all taken and we have the "problem" of having four starters who could, with planned shot distribution, average 20 points a game each and that means "trading for offense" while fun, is cuckoo.
There is no need to change the starters as, once everyone is healthy and playing within their roles, Stevens will have, as always, two scorers on the court at all times. He has shown this all year.

As for Bjelica, I would only trade scrubs and picks. Bjelica for Poirier, Semi, Edwards the Milwaukee pick and some cash to make up for the player Sactown would need to cut to complete the trade.

That would make the bench rotation be
Smart
Kanter
Bjelica
Grant Williams
Wanamaker

I guess that makes the team a smidgeon better, but not a whole lot.