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Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: Smartacus on August 18, 2018, 08:52:56 AM

Title: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: Smartacus on August 18, 2018, 08:52:56 AM
This year the Boston Celtics are a top tier team within striking distance of matching up with one of the top rosters ever constructed in GS. Arguably more important however is that we are in the rare territory that GS found itself in 3 years ago that the teams future is as bright or brighter than our presence.

Simplistically you can view us as
Present
Irving
Hayward
Horford

Future
Tatum
Jaylen
?

As Horford gracefully ages into no longer elite territory and/or Kyrie walks, as currently constructed we might find ourselves 1 to 2 more major pieces away from contending with the top team be it still GS, the Lakers, or maybe some Kyrie/Durant lead Monster in New York. Again though ours is the team with the brightest future and there happens to be a monster training up in Durham North Carolina.

I'd argue that with the Number 2 pick in the 2019 NBA draft the Boston Celtics could do no better than to select Zion Williamson of Duke University.

Dogged for years now over his supposed athletic shortcomings, weight issues, and pedestrian finishing abilities in the AAU circuit, Williamson is emerging as a force that has the potential to be a new kind of unicorn for the modern era. Unlike the Porzingis' and Myles Turners of the world, Zion wont shoot over players he'll barrel though them.

6'7 280 there will not be a player in the league save for possibly Embiid that will be able to bully him in the post and Zion has the open floor athleticism to be the first wave of an elite downhill assault. When imagining a fast-break with Jaylen, Tatum, and Zion filling the lanes there wont be a team out there that could produce the same amount of force and skill in the open court.

Al Horford will one day age and that top big man position will again be in question. All of the other top prospects are wings, the way I see it for the Celtics to solidify them selves as an all decade team they need to lock up tomorrow's core and you could ask for no better than Zion Williamson.

Am I overreacting to some dominant performances against laughable competition? Possibly.
https://youtu.be/WjO4zweaD2w (https://youtu.be/WjO4zweaD2w)
Will the Kings pick convey into a top asset? Hopefully
Will RJ Barret show enough to drop Zion out of the top spot? I'm beginning to doubt.
Is Zion Williamson a franchise altering talent and the final piece to a Celtics Dynasty? We'll just have to wait and see.
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: Androslav on August 18, 2018, 09:15:59 AM
Too doo dam dam dam
Another one bites on the dunker!
Too doo dam dam dam...
 ;D
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: konkmv on August 18, 2018, 09:22:34 AM
First of all the kings must not get the 1st pick... they are a lottery teambut it is good to get no7 but better to get no3
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: Smartacus on August 18, 2018, 09:26:54 AM
First of all the kings must not get the 1st pick... they are a lottery teambut it is good to get no7 but better to get no3

Yes in this ideal scenario we get the number 2 overall pick and RJ Barrett goes 1, presumably to a team like the Magic that would already be set for bigs.

Otherwise we'd have to trade up, which might not be possible.
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: tazzmaniac on August 18, 2018, 10:22:05 AM
You're overreacting.  Trae Young looked otherworldly until he got into Big12 play.  Let's see how Zion is doing 30 games into the season playing top notch ACC competition. 

As to your suggestion that he could be an NBA center, he's going to have to grow quite a bit to be anything beyond a situational small ball center.  He doesn't look that long.  Draftexpress site has his wingspan at 6'10" which is the same as Barrett. 
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: GreenShooter on August 18, 2018, 10:38:32 AM
Zion is the next coming of Charles Barkely. Otherworldly athleticism. Just needs to develop. It seems and sounds like he wants to be great. I saw that youtube video before and there's a blocked shot (I think it was called goaltending) that hit he swatted away almost off the top of the backboard. He also grabbed some serious rebounds by force and athleticism. He may have trouble posting up bigger players but he gets off the ground quicker than any player on the court. I am looking forward to watching him and my other binkie, Reddish, this season. Barrett does not excite me. He will not be the first player selected. He does a lot things well just doesn't excel at any one or more things, though he does have a great first step. That skill will get you open so I guess it is a big deal.
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: JBcat on August 18, 2018, 10:38:44 AM
First of all the kings must not get the 1st pick... they are a lottery teambut it is good to get no7 but better to get no3

Yes in this ideal scenario we get the number 2 overall pick and RJ Barrett goes 1, presumably to a team like the Magic that would already be set for bigs.

Otherwise we'd have to trade up, which might not be possible.

As far as trading up we have enough remaining assets to not dig that much into our core.  Let’s say the Kings pick is 7, if you add the Grizzlies pick, another pick or Smart or Rozier that should be more than enough to move up. 

With that said he does look like a Charles Barkley all over again in that clip, but it’s way too early.  Also I don’t think he’ll ever be a center, but a future young core of Williams (center), Williamson (PF), Tatum (PF/SF), Brown (SG) could be very special and a good fit with each other to go along with the older vets Horford, Hayward, Irving and other pieces remaining.
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: hwangjini_1 on August 18, 2018, 11:22:18 AM
williamson weighs what? i see reports of 285 pounds for 6' 6". how long can those knees hold up with such weight? i think he currently out weighs all but a handful of current nba players.

sullinger was reportedly 280 to 285, but he was 6' 9".

great athleticism by williamson from what little i saw. but, is he a basketball player in terms of other skills? or, he is another version of kedrick brown, who was 6'8", 45 inch vertical, and had great atheticism?

i have seen williamson dunk, and little else. thus far, which isnt saying much, he hasnt shown the ability to shoot 3 pointers. but again, it really is too early to say much of anything aside from he is really athletic and he really needs to lose weight.

so, let's wait a bit and let him play some college ball before we all buy our tickets for the hype train.  ;D
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: JBcat on August 18, 2018, 11:49:37 AM
williamson weighs what? i see reports of 285 pounds for 6' 6". how long can those knees hold up with such weight? i think he currently out weighs all but a handful of current nba players.

sullinger was reportedly 280 to 285, but he was 6' 9".

great athleticism by williamson from what little i saw. but, is he a basketball player in terms of other skills? or, he is another version of kedrick brown, who was 6'8", 45 inch vertical, and had great atheticism?

i have seen williamson dunk, and little else. thus far, which isnt saying much, he hasnt shown the ability to shoot 3 pointers. but again, it really is too early to say much of anything aside from he is really athletic and he really needs to lose weight.

so, let's wait a bit and let him play some college ball before we all buy our tickets for the hype train.  ;D

From what little I’ve seen I see a very good rebounder especially in traffic, good passer, explosive first step, and someone who can handle the ball well.  Yes he can’t shoot well, but it seems like he has a decent form to build off of.  I think that’s a far cry of Kendrick Brown who was dunks, and maybe a little bit of a mid range J. Plus Brown was a SG where not having those ball skills really hurt, and Zion is more of a big. I don’t have much to go on though as I’ve haven’t a lot of Zion.
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: moiso on August 18, 2018, 12:05:18 PM
Kedrick Brown was supposed to be a good 3 point shooter when he was drafted.  I think it was Chris Wallace who called him the best combination of athleticism and outside shooting in the draft.
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: Beat LA on August 18, 2018, 12:21:01 PM
williamson weighs what? i see reports of 285 pounds for 6' 6". how long can those knees hold up with such weight? i think he currently out weighs all but a handful of current nba players.

sullinger was reportedly 280 to 285, but he was 6' 9".

great athleticism by williamson from what little i saw. but, is he a basketball player in terms of other skills? or, he is another version of kedrick brown, who was 6'8", 45 inch vertical, and had great atheticism?

i have seen williamson dunk, and little else. thus far, which isnt saying much, he hasnt shown the ability to shoot 3 pointers. but again, it really is too early to say much of anything aside from he is really athletic and he really needs to lose weight.

so, let's wait a bit and let him play some college ball before we all buy our tickets for the hype train.  ;D

Alternatively, we could have opted to let's say "rent" Deonte Burton for a year because on the cheap, hehe. ;D
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: SHAQATTACK on August 18, 2018, 12:58:50 PM
sully
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: gouki88 on August 18, 2018, 01:12:47 PM
sully
Not even remotely like one another
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: ETNCeltics on August 18, 2018, 02:02:14 PM
sully
Hardly. He's a freak athlete and one of the greatest leapers in the NBA the second he's drafted. Everyone  noticed how explosive Bagley was when he got to Duke a year ago, but ZW is on a whole different level.

I'm not sure how he'll translate to the NBA or whether or not he'd fit with us, but his strength and athleticism will make him a good rebounder and finisher.
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: Csfan1984 on August 18, 2018, 02:28:38 PM
I need to see more from Zion. Right now I see Jason Maxiell.
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: Smartacus on August 18, 2018, 02:56:38 PM
First of all the kings must not get the 1st pick... they are a lottery teambut it is good to get no7 but better to get no3

Yes in this ideal scenario we get the number 2 overall pick and RJ Barrett goes 1, presumably to a team like the Magic that would already be set for bigs.

Otherwise we'd have to trade up, which might not be possible.

As far as trading up we have enough remaining assets to not dig that much into our core.  Let’s say the Kings pick is 7, if you add the Grizzlies pick, another pick or Smart or Rozier that should be more than enough to move up. 

With that said he does look like a Charles Barkley all over again in that clip, but it’s way too early.  Also I don’t think he’ll ever be a center, but a future young core of Williams (center), Williamson (PF), Tatum (PF/SF), Brown (SG) could be very special and a good fit with each other to go along with the older vets Horford, Hayward, Irving and other pieces remaining.

Brad Stevens claims that his philosophy is that there are only guards, wings, and bigs and that the big man positions in particular are relatively interchangeable.

I don't think either Williamson and Robert Williams are true centers but I also doubt that if we had those 2 manning our future front court anyone would feel we were lacking size.

If acquiring Williamson isn't possible then that's fine there will be other opportunities, but man if we could swing adding him to this core that's a historically unique team.
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: moiso on August 18, 2018, 02:57:31 PM
Is he a great athlete in terms of quickness and speed, or just a ridiculous leaper?  Leaping doesn’t seem like the most important athletic trait for a 6’6” guy.
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: JHTruth on August 18, 2018, 03:00:21 PM
williamson weighs what? i see reports of 285 pounds for 6' 6". how long can those knees hold up with such weight? i think he currently out weighs all but a handful of current nba players.

sullinger was reportedly 280 to 285, but he was 6' 9".

great athleticism by williamson from what little i saw. but, is he a basketball player in terms of other skills? or, he is another version of kedrick brown, who was 6'8", 45 inch vertical, and had great atheticism?

i have seen williamson dunk, and little else. thus far, which isnt saying much, he hasnt shown the ability to shoot 3 pointers. but again, it really is too early to say much of anything aside from he is really athletic and he really needs to lose weight.

so, let's wait a bit and let him play some college ball before we all buy our tickets for the hype train.  ;D

Weight is a definite concern. He needs to lose 20 lbs. 285 at age 18 is a little scary. Also he's not a C. Length will bother him.

But I'd take him if available although I'd prefer Little or Reddish..
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: A Future of Stevens on August 18, 2018, 03:09:15 PM
Is he a great athlete in terms of quickness and speed, or just a ridiculous leaper?  Leaping doesn’t seem like the most important athletic trait for a 6’6” guy.

I'd say his top end speed is very good for 270/280. His quickness and leaping ability are utterly elite.
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: tazzmaniac on August 18, 2018, 03:35:02 PM
Haven't seen that much of Zion but my first thought was an above the rim Julius Randle. 
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: unclebay on August 18, 2018, 03:36:49 PM
Dude is the most dominant prospect physically since probably Lebron. Dominant rebounder. He honestly does some Shaq level things. His athleticism and physical ability can not be overstated. Developing jumper and really nice passing instincts as well. His vision and feel are advanced. All that and his personality gives off special competitor vibes.
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: hwangjini_1 on August 18, 2018, 04:48:31 PM
the most dominent player since X. how many times have we heard this about players?  ;D

let's see this year how he works out in college.
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: TheTruthFot18 on August 18, 2018, 05:40:05 PM
I'm thinking he will drop in the draft. So much hype and he hasn't questions about his skills translating to the NBA.

Just reminds me the type of hype that followed guys like Jabari Parker and Josh Jackson (next TMac?).
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: Smartacus on August 18, 2018, 06:02:43 PM
I'm thinking he will drop in the draft. So much hype and he hasn't questions about his skills translating to the NBA.

Just reminds me the type of hype that followed guys like Jabari Parker and Josh Jackson (next TMac?).

Well Jabari Parker went #2 and Josh Jackson fell all the way to #4 so I don't really see Zion falling unless Cam Redddish and Nassir Little show out.

To be fair the value of top end wings can't be overstated so perhaps if we drafted 3rd or 4th Zion might have fallen behind the wing depth.

But honestly I'd be more surprised with Zion going #4 than going #1. Please excuse the early hype train but I'm sold on his potential as a franchise altering talent in ways that I'm not quite there on Little and Reddish.(Although I admit Barrett looks like a can't miss pick)
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: CELTICSofBOSTON on August 18, 2018, 06:44:45 PM
Best case scenario is Nassir Little at #2 and maybe Zion at #9 if he falls.
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: Sophomore on August 18, 2018, 07:30:59 PM
Dude is the most dominant prospect physically since probably Lebron. Dominant rebounder. He honestly does some Shaq level things. His athleticism and physical ability can not be overstated. Developing jumper and really nice passing instincts as well. His vision and feel are advanced. All that and his personality gives off special competitor vibes.

He’s an interesting player; one way he’s definitely like LeBron is that if he gets into the open court on a break he has that freight train momentum.  But otherwise I would not say he’s physically dominant the way LeBron was, at least in the half court, when he’s playing against competition that is future-NBA caliber. As a run-jump athlete he’s awesome in a straight line and he has good handles. But he’s had a lot of trouble staying in front of guards - Stepien collected some videos of guards breaking his ankles with crossovers.  And when he’s played against Nassir Little, Little has stripped him a bunch of times. He can’t shoot outside and his team defense is a big question mark. And yes, I am wondering how a player 6’6” and 280 is going to age.

Here’s Little putting out defensive effort in the McDonalds game to stop Williamson. (He didn’t win every battle like this one,  but it was definitely not a mismatch.)

https://youtu.be/3Yvs6mmKutk

Every review I’ve read says Little’s focus and competitiveness are truly elite. I’ll be very interested to see what UNC does when they play Duke.
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: droopdog7 on August 19, 2018, 12:34:18 AM
I’m not even that high on Williamson.  He’s a physical freak but not an especially skilled basketball player.  People putting too much stock on this exhibition tour.
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: greenhead85 on August 19, 2018, 06:59:38 AM
The final piece is Anthony Davis!

No LBJ, KD or Greek Freak allowed to attack inside.
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: Smartacus on August 19, 2018, 07:54:00 AM
Dude is the most dominant prospect physically since probably Lebron. Dominant rebounder. He honestly does some Shaq level things. His athleticism and physical ability can not be overstated. Developing jumper and really nice passing instincts as well. His vision and feel are advanced. All that and his personality gives off special competitor vibes.

He’s an interesting player; one way he’s definitely like LeBron is that if he gets into the open court on a break he has that freight train momentum.  But otherwise I would not say he’s physically dominant the way LeBron was, at least in the half court, when he’s playing against competition that is future-NBA caliber. As a run-jump athlete he’s awesome in a straight line and he has good handles. But he’s had a lot of trouble staying in front of guards - Stepien collected some videos of guards breaking his ankles with crossovers.  And when he’s played against Nassir Little, Little has stripped him a bunch of times. He can’t shoot outside and his team defense is a big question mark. And yes, I am wondering how a player 6’6” and 280 is going to age.

Here’s Little putting out defensive effort in the McDonalds game to stop Williamson. (He didn’t win every battle like this one,  but it was definitely not a mismatch.)

https://youtu.be/3Yvs6mmKutk

Every review I’ve read says Little’s focus and competitiveness are truly elite. I’ll be very interested to see what UNC does when they play Duke.

Nice point about Little although I do think Zion would perform better in a more defined role and system. The McDonalds All American game plays like the All Star game. Nobody was really looking to set ZW up with any advantage in that clip. Just dump the ball in and let him try to barrel to the rack.

He'd have more value as an open court and P and R finisher.
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: GreenShooter on August 19, 2018, 12:12:21 PM
Here's another video with Little and Zion. Both are elite prospects. Little has just has crazy hands on defense. He must have learned something from Rondo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QU2xJf9gz9U
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: gouki88 on August 19, 2018, 07:32:15 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05dRyoLKtrI

I know it isn't very strong opposition, but my gosh his athleticism and strength for someone his age is just crazy. The way he finishes through contact like it isn't even there is hilarious.

Small ball 5! ;)
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: Celtics4ever on August 19, 2018, 07:44:30 PM
No outside shot at all shot less than 25% from the high school three which is an easier shot.

http://www.maxpreps.com/athlete/zion-williamson/KyC06n7eEeS00gAmVebEWg/gendersport/basketball-stats.htm

Also 63% FT shooter.

All folks have to do is slack off him, and dare him to shoot.  He will bully a lot of guys but in the NBA they pay guys to take charges like Baynes.   So he is no one 's final piece until he develops a better jumper.   I expect him to do well in college with that physique and athletic ability but face it, the NBA is full of athletes.
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: KG Living Legend on August 19, 2018, 09:02:50 PM
No outside shot at all shot less than 25% from the high school three which is an easier shot.

http://www.maxpreps.com/athlete/zion-williamson/KyC06n7eEeS00gAmVebEWg/gendersport/basketball-stats.htm

Also 63% FT shooter.

All folks have to do is slack off him, and dare him to shoot.  He will bully a lot of guys but in the NBA they pay guys to take charges like Baynes.   So he is no one 's final piece until he develops a better jumper.   I expect him to do well in college with that physique and athletic ability but face it, the NBA is full of athletes.


 I agree Celts4eva. However you must admit not a horrible option at say #5. Who knows Danny could go in another direction.

 I'd be happy to have him even tho I haven't been the biggest fan of his game. His body and hops are off the charts.
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: gouki88 on August 19, 2018, 09:40:51 PM
No outside shot at all shot less than 25% from the high school three which is an easier shot.

http://www.maxpreps.com/athlete/zion-williamson/KyC06n7eEeS00gAmVebEWg/gendersport/basketball-stats.htm

Also 63% FT shooter.

All folks have to do is slack off him, and dare him to shoot.  He will bully a lot of guys but in the NBA they pay guys to take charges like Baynes.   So he is no one 's final piece until he develops a better jumper.   I expect him to do well in college with that physique and athletic ability but face it, the NBA is full of athletes.
His shooting form has already undergone significant alterations since he was in HS. I don't think he'll ever be a dangerous threat from deep, but I wouldn't be surprised if he ended up Rondo-like (2016-2018 Rondo), who shoots mid-30's from behind the arc and can't simply be ignored.
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: KungPoweChicken on August 19, 2018, 10:30:08 PM
His combination of size and athleticism is breathtaking. If he can become proficient in the other facets of the game, and that is a big if, he has the potential to be great, even at a less than ideal height.
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: Sophomore on August 19, 2018, 10:38:01 PM
His combination of size and athleticism is breathtaking. If he can become proficient in the other facets of the game, and that is a big if, he has the potential to be great, even at a less than ideal height.

Does some things incredibly, other things not as well. It doesn’t look like he has the lateral quickness to defend on the perimeter right now - at all. So he either has to fix that (lose 30 pounds?) or show he can defend the 4 or 5. Scroll about halfway down this page to see Langford get by him easily.

https://www.thestepien.com/2018/08/12/early-2019-draft-thoughts-zion-williamson/
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: trickybilly on August 19, 2018, 11:15:51 PM
That free throw dunk..  :o :o
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: playdream on August 20, 2018, 04:21:58 AM
We should consider trading Brown for the right to draft him

Compare to year 2 Brown he is stonger, better leaper, slightly better body control, better touch, smoother, better passer and court vision, slightly better dribble, less cockyness and less distraction

Brown is much better at the 3 and proven durability

so if he can improve/prove those two we should seriously consider trade Brown for him

I say his best position is lost 20 pounds and play the 2 like Brown
(Korver isn't going to block Zion twice in one game that i'm sure, Zion will eat him alive even now)
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: playdream on August 20, 2018, 04:25:58 AM
system lag
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: gouki88 on August 20, 2018, 04:28:49 AM
We should consider trading Brown for the right to draft him

Compare to year 2 Brown he is stonger, better leaper, slightly better body control, better touch, smoother, better passer and court vision, slightly better dribble, less cockyness and less distraction

Brown is much better at the 3 and proven durability

so if he can improve/prove those two we should seriously consider trade Brown for him

I say his best position is lost 20 pounds and play the 2 like Brown
Why on earth would we do this when we have what is looking like a top 5 pick and potentially another late lotto pick?? That's a seriously bad idea.

Brown is also a far better defender and actually has proven himself at the NBA level, unlike Zion. So no, trading JB for Zion would be dumb. We're trying to win now, are we not?
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: playdream on August 20, 2018, 05:23:26 AM
We should consider trading Brown for the right to draft him

Compare to year 2 Brown he is stonger, better leaper, slightly better body control, better touch, smoother, better passer and court vision, slightly better dribble, less cockyness and less distraction

Brown is much better at the 3 and proven durability

so if he can improve/prove those two we should seriously consider trade Brown for him

I say his best position is lost 20 pounds and play the 2 like Brown
Why on earth would we do this when we have what is looking like a top 5 pick and potentially another late lotto pick?? That's a seriously bad idea.

Brown is also a far better defender and actually has proven himself at the NBA level, unlike Zion. So no, trading JB for Zion would be dumb. We're trying to win now, are we not?
So we can get two top prospect, one of which may contribute right now and they play the same position but Zion can be better at almost everything

If he can get a 3 and prove his durability, of course defense also, he will be a far better prospect than Brown and will contribute since year 1 like Tatum, yes there will be serious chemical risk to consider when we are contending now but still worth consider, also Brown will looking to get paid Big money soon so looking on now and future it's definitely a way to think
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: trickybilly on August 20, 2018, 05:34:42 AM
Holy Moly this kid looks so out of his league in college. Hard to see how he will be super successful in the NBA at 6'6, but his ball handling is surprisingly brilliant. Highlights from a Pre-Season game:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05dRyoLKtrI
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: gouki88 on August 20, 2018, 05:37:54 AM
We should consider trading Brown for the right to draft him

Compare to year 2 Brown he is stonger, better leaper, slightly better body control, better touch, smoother, better passer and court vision, slightly better dribble, less cockyness and less distraction

Brown is much better at the 3 and proven durability

so if he can improve/prove those two we should seriously consider trade Brown for him

I say his best position is lost 20 pounds and play the 2 like Brown
Why on earth would we do this when we have what is looking like a top 5 pick and potentially another late lotto pick?? That's a seriously bad idea.

Brown is also a far better defender and actually has proven himself at the NBA level, unlike Zion. So no, trading JB for Zion would be dumb. We're trying to win now, are we not?
So we can get two top prospect, one of which may contribute right now and they play the same position but Zion can be better at almost everything

If he can get a 3 and prove his durability, of course defense also, he will be a far better prospect than Brown and will contribute since year 1 like Tatum, yes there will be serious chemical risk to consider when we are contending now but still worth consider, also Brown will looking to get paid Big money soon so looking on now and future it's definitely a way to think
We might simply just be able to draft Zion outright, as most mocks have Barrett and Little going ahead of him. So really no need to trade one of the best wing prospects in the game for him. Worst case, we could package picks (Sac, Memphis & LAC spring to mind, or even our own first) for him.

Paying big money to guys is going to happen. We can't avoid that with all the talent we have 
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: playdream on August 20, 2018, 07:39:53 AM
We should consider trading Brown for the right to draft him

Compare to year 2 Brown he is stonger, better leaper, slightly better body control, better touch, smoother, better passer and court vision, slightly better dribble, less cockyness and less distraction

Brown is much better at the 3 and proven durability

so if he can improve/prove those two we should seriously consider trade Brown for him

I say his best position is lost 20 pounds and play the 2 like Brown
Why on earth would we do this when we have what is looking like a top 5 pick and potentially another late lotto pick?? That's a seriously bad idea.

Brown is also a far better defender and actually has proven himself at the NBA level, unlike Zion. So no, trading JB for Zion would be dumb. We're trying to win now, are we not?
So we can get two top prospect, one of which may contribute right now and they play the same position but Zion can be better at almost everything

If he can get a 3 and prove his durability, of course defense also, he will be a far better prospect than Brown and will contribute since year 1 like Tatum, yes there will be serious chemical risk to consider when we are contending now but still worth consider, also Brown will looking to get paid Big money soon so looking on now and future it's definitely a way to think
We might simply just be able to draft Zion outright, as most mocks have Barrett and Little going ahead of him. So really no need to trade one of the best wing prospects in the game for him. Worst case, we could package picks (Sac, Memphis & LAC spring to mind, or even our own first) for him.

Paying big money to guys is going to happen. We can't avoid that with all the talent we have
As you said we may just draft Zion at 4th, keep the chemistry for one year run, see Brown's 3rd and Zion's first year, then go from there

The problem is i don't see play 4-5 is best for Zion , just too much height and length given up, also the wear down will be tremendous, we should use his athleticism and play him big2 or 3 just like Brown, so that means we need to give up one of them at the end


Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on August 20, 2018, 08:13:36 AM
He looks like a combination of Justice Winslow and Julius Randle.

I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt until I see him against high level competition in the ACC, but at this point, I haven't seen a lot to think he will be an all-star.
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: JBcat on August 20, 2018, 08:22:51 AM
His combination of size and athleticism is breathtaking. If he can become proficient in the other facets of the game, and that is a big if, he has the potential to be great, even at a less than ideal height.

Does some things incredibly, other things not as well. It doesn’t look like he has the lateral quickness to defend on the perimeter right now - at all. So he either has to fix that (lose 30 pounds?) or show he can defend the 4 or 5. Scroll about halfway down this page to see Langford get by him easily.

https://www.thestepien.com/2018/08/12/early-2019-draft-thoughts-zion-williamson/

Great article.  So long story short he has inconsistent form on his shot, but a shooting coach could go a long way.  He doesn’t have great lateral quickness on defense, and with his average length he doesn’t have as much room for error as other players.

Other than that he is mostly elite everywhere else.
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: Sophomore on August 20, 2018, 08:43:23 AM
His combination of size and athleticism is breathtaking. If he can become proficient in the other facets of the game, and that is a big if, he has the potential to be great, even at a less than ideal height.

Does some things incredibly, other things not as well. It doesn’t look like he has the lateral quickness to defend on the perimeter right now - at all. So he either has to fix that (lose 30 pounds?) or show he can defend the 4 or 5. Scroll about halfway down this page to see Langford get by him easily.

https://www.thestepien.com/2018/08/12/early-2019-draft-thoughts-zion-williamson/

Great article.  So long story short he has inconsistent form on his shot, but a shooting coach could go a long way.  He doesn’t have great lateral quickness on defense, and with his average length he doesn’t have as much room for error as other players.

Other than that he is mostly elite everywhere else.

Basically, yes; I think there are also some questions about his off-ball play/court awareness, but it's hard to tell when he's playing against outclassed HS competition or in exhibition games where nobody really plays a good team game.

All that fits with people pegging him around pick 3-6, depending on the mock; a player ranked that high has some very, very good characteristics. But the deficiencies are why he's not ranked 1 or 2 by pretty much anybody.

I don't love the fit for the Cs. He's not pushing Tatum out of the four and I'm skeptical he can play the five. If we're drafting a 3, Little, Reddish, or Barrett all look more appealing.

This is before we try to figure out the injury risk for a kid who is 285 at 18 years old who depends very, very heavily on elite athleticism and in a few youtube videos is wearing a knee support.
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: GreenShooter on August 20, 2018, 09:49:21 AM
His combination of size and athleticism is breathtaking. If he can become proficient in the other facets of the game, and that is a big if, he has the potential to be great, even at a less than ideal height.

Does some things incredibly, other things not as well. It doesn’t look like he has the lateral quickness to defend on the perimeter right now - at all. So he either has to fix that (lose 30 pounds?) or show he can defend the 4 or 5. Scroll about halfway down this page to see Langford get by him easily.

https://www.thestepien.com/2018/08/12/early-2019-draft-thoughts-zion-williamson/
Doesn't mean a thing. Langford will be doing that to A LOT of people this year. He's super quick.
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: KG Living Legend on August 20, 2018, 12:02:19 PM
 As an athlete he is a little strange. The running full speed free throw line dunks are the deepest we have ever seen.

 I've seen maybe two dunks ever from that deep. And he's 285 pounds.

 His second jump is very quick, but I'm not convinced he's super explosive from a standstill yet. 6'10" wingspan and About an 8'7" standing reach. Tatum is 8'11" and Bob Williams is 9'4" ultra elite.


 From what I see he needs that one big gather step to power it home in your face, and if he's running full speed just get out of the way or duck.
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: Sophomore on August 20, 2018, 12:08:24 PM
His combination of size and athleticism is breathtaking. If he can become proficient in the other facets of the game, and that is a big if, he has the potential to be great, even at a less than ideal height.

Does some things incredibly, other things not as well. It doesn’t look like he has the lateral quickness to defend on the perimeter right now - at all. So he either has to fix that (lose 30 pounds?) or show he can defend the 4 or 5. Scroll about halfway down this page to see Langford get by him easily.

https://www.thestepien.com/2018/08/12/early-2019-draft-thoughts-zion-williamson/
Doesn't mean a thing. Langford will be doing that to A LOT of people this year. He's super quick.

Not just Langford. If you go to the page, you'll see three other guys have their way with him on the perimeter, not just Langford. His anticipation isn't good, and he lacks the quickness to recover. Maybe it's fixable, maybe it isn't. If you want to be a small-ball five, you better be able to at least stay in front of your man on the perimeter to force a jump shot.
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: Sophomore on August 20, 2018, 12:27:42 PM
As an athlete he is a little strange. The running full speed free throw line dunks are the deepest we have ever seen.

 I've seen maybe two dunks ever from that deep. And he's 285 pounds.

 His second jump is very quick, but I'm not convinced he's super explosive from a standstill yet. 6'10" wingspan and About an 8'7" standing reach. Tatum is 8'11" and Bob Williams is 9'4" ultra elite.


 From what I see he needs that one big gather step to power it home in your face, and if he's running full speed just get out of the way or duck.

Yes indeed. Waiting to see who will be the first to try to take a charge when ZW has a full head of steam, and hoping that the young man will be OK.
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: GreenShooter on August 20, 2018, 02:19:43 PM
His combination of size and athleticism is breathtaking. If he can become proficient in the other facets of the game, and that is a big if, he has the potential to be great, even at a less than ideal height.

Does some things incredibly, other things not as well. It doesn’t look like he has the lateral quickness to defend on the perimeter right now - at all. So he either has to fix that (lose 30 pounds?) or show he can defend the 4 or 5. Scroll about halfway down this page to see Langford get by him easily.

https://www.thestepien.com/2018/08/12/early-2019-draft-thoughts-zion-williamson/
Doesn't mean a thing. Langford will be doing that to A LOT of people this year. He's super quick.

Not just Langford. If you go to the page, you'll see three other guys have their way with him on the perimeter, not just Langford. His anticipation isn't good, and he lacks the quickness to recover. Maybe it's fixable, maybe it isn't. If you want to be a small-ball five, you better be able to at least stay in front of your man on the perimeter to force a jump shot.
Fair enough. There are a lot of videos on that link so I'll check them out later. Zion is a very intriguing prospect and no one that size has the athleticism he has. He'll be fun to follow, along with Reddish on the same team. I'm not all that high on Barrett but that's only because he's a consensus first pick in the mock drafts and I see more value elsewhere (Langford being one you mentioned...he's very good). Then again, Anthony Bennett went first overall. Ugh!! Barrett is not that low on my meter.
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: ETNCeltics on August 20, 2018, 02:37:14 PM
Some of the questions about him are legit. The ones above about his athleticism are not.

He's also a very good ball handler and has excellent body control.

If he could consistently shoot 3s - and I don't think the jury is in that he can't - he'd be the #1 overall pick and there wouldn't be any question about it. There some video in the exhibition games Duke has been playing of him showing a pretty decent pull up jumper (with amazing lift, he'll be able to shoot over pretty much anyone), but we're going to have to watch him over the course of the season on his 3s.

On his D, yes, you can see him look sloppy, but let's be honest: he's spent most of his basketball life on D with half (or most) of his mind ready to take off for a youtube highlight dunk. With his athleticism, he can play D, it's just a matter of whether or not he's one of those guys who doesn't have a want-to.

Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: JHTruth on August 20, 2018, 03:10:09 PM
Some of the questions about him are legit. The ones above about his athleticism are not.

He's also a very good ball handler and has excellent body control.

If he could consistently shoot 3s - and I don't think the jury is in that he can't - he'd be the #1 overall pick and there wouldn't be any question about it. There some video in the exhibition games Duke has been playing of him showing a pretty decent pull up jumper (with amazing lift, he'll be able to shoot over pretty much anyone), but we're going to have to watch him over the course of the season on his 3s.

On his D, yes, you can see him look sloppy, but let's be honest: he's spent most of his basketball life on D with half (or most) of his mind ready to take off for a youtube highlight dunk. With his athleticism, he can play D, it's just a matter of whether or not he's one of those guys who doesn't have a want-to.

Reddish will be the No 1 pick if he wants to be. Kid is freakishly talented. But hey if he falls to us I won't complain.

Zion is very difficult to project as a pro prospect. His current size means he will in all likelihood be 300+ in his prime. At 6'7" with only a 6'10" wingspan. How does that look in the NBA? We've never seen anything like it other than Jabba the Huts like Oliver Miller, Sweetney, BBD, fat Barkley and Kemp. Anyone else excited about those guys? I certainly am not.

How will keep his athleticism through his career? Very tough to say
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: JBcat on August 20, 2018, 04:28:54 PM
My initial thoughts was maybe he could be at least a poor man’s Larry Johnson/Charles Barkley type, but both those guys listed weight was around 250, and Williamson is at 285!  The crazy thing is my eyes don’t tell me he looks overweight.  He seems pretty chiseled, but that is a lot of weight to carry for his height and worrisome as he gets older.

For me it will be interesting to see if becomes more of a wing with his quickness and lack of height and wingspan, or a big because of his strength.  Maybe he’s just a swing. Ha
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: Chief Macho on August 20, 2018, 05:00:18 PM
Meh..I dont think he’s bball smart.  And the athletisism will be muted in the league.
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: gouki88 on August 20, 2018, 05:22:54 PM
Meh..I dont think he’s bball smart.  And the athletisism will be muted in the league.
Why? His playmaking and decision making seem pretty good, not like he’s useless out there.

And when has a guy this athletically freakish had his athleticism muted?
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: nickagneta on August 20, 2018, 06:57:38 PM
Really hope the Cs stay away from this guy. I think he could be a risky pick if the Celtics are in the top 4. Would rather Danny take Reddish, Little or Barrett before Zion.
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: beantownboy171 on August 20, 2018, 08:02:10 PM
Meh..I dont think he’s bball smart.  And the athletisism will be muted in the league.
Why? His playmaking and decision making seem pretty good, not like he’s useless out there.

And when has a guy this athletically freakish had his athleticism muted?
Just gonna jump in here. I need watch more highlights to figure out if he's worthy of this comparison. But perhaps Blake Griffin? His athleticism translated for a while. But with declining returns and obviously was impacted by injuries. But the point is it is difficult to sustain that type of athleticism and what is left after it starts to fade?

That being said my mind isn't made up on any of these kids this early in the year.
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: smokeablount on August 20, 2018, 11:31:55 PM
Really hope the Cs stay away from this guy. I think he could be a risky pick if the Celtics are in the top 4. Would rather Danny take Reddish, Little or Barrett before Zion.

Concur- as of now.
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: footey on August 22, 2018, 08:17:21 AM
Has anyone made the comparison to a young Charles Barkley? That’s who he reminds me of.
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: rollie mass on August 22, 2018, 08:56:07 AM
A sprained ankle will take a toll and who doesn't get those eventually..We had Sully and it seems like Yabusele needs to drop some weight-Semi is unique  physically but suffers from lack of an elite wingspan.
.What does Charles Barkley think?????
Zion is a force against Canadian over matched squads but is absolutely ferocious in transition or slashing..Baynes would need insurance!
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: GreenShooter on August 22, 2018, 01:21:14 PM
Has anyone made the comparison to a young Charles Barkley? That’s who he reminds me of.
Yup, first page of this thread. Doesn't take long to make that comparison. That's what is so scary about this kid. He has that kind of upside and Barkley was a beast inside at the college level. That was all, besides being a great rebounder. He couldn't really shoot from the outside but he didn't have to. He just overpowered people. He was also the 5th pick overall so there are several similarities between the two.
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: ETNCeltics on August 23, 2018, 10:37:11 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=144&v=4SZ79UfAs24

Video on his leaping ability. If he can just be a decent shooter he'll have a lethal game.
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: ETNCeltics on August 23, 2018, 10:39:09 AM
A sprained ankle will take a toll and who doesn't get those eventually..We had Sully and it seems like Yabusele needs to drop some weight-Semi is unique  physically but suffers from lack of an elite wingspan.
.What does Charles Barkley think?????
Zion is a force against Canadian over matched squads but is absolutely ferocious in transition or slashing..Baynes would need insurance!

I can't find a reference to it now, but I once read that Barkley jumped center when he was at Auburn, and never lost a jump ball.
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: Smartacus on October 13, 2018, 10:05:22 AM
Just want to be crystal clear before the start of the regular season and college season I am still 100% banging the Zion Williamson gong. For all the reason mentioned in the OP, Zion Williamson is still the final piece.

I'm pulling a Lavar Ball and 'speak this into existence' with this prospect.

With the second pick in the 2019 NBA Draft The Boston Celtics Zion Williamson of Duke University.

Edit: FWIW Wasserman of Bleacher Report agrees.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2799699-2019-nba-mock-draft-way-too-soon-1st-round-draft-predictions
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: GreenShooter on October 13, 2018, 10:37:33 AM
There's a lot of interesting prospects that we'll be keeping an eye on due to the Kings pick (and possibly Memphis and LAC). But none have the skill set that this kid has. It's been almost beat to death about his weight, his stamina, his size and he's lack of a current outside shot. But the kid is a beast. He can get off the floor very quickly and very high and he's already a very good rebounder. I'm looking forward to seeing this Duke team. It has 4 prospects worth following. I also like the Langford kid along with the other Porter, Nassir Little and Gafford. There's a Vandy PG worth following as well. And last but not least is Charles Bassey. A really big kid who reclassified, ala Bagley, and has some skills already. Can't wait for the start of the college season as well.
Title: Re: Zion Williamson is the final piece
Post by: wiley on October 13, 2018, 12:22:25 PM
Just want to be crystal clear before the start of the regular season and college season I am still 100% banging the Zion Williamson gong. For all the reason mentioned in the OP, Zion Williamson is still the final piece.

I'm pulling a Lavar Ball and 'speak this into existence' with this prospect.

With the second pick in the 2019 NBA Draft The Boston Celtics Zion Williamson of Duke University.

Edit: FWIW Wasserman of Bleacher Report agrees.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2799699-2019-nba-mock-draft-way-too-soon-1st-round-draft-predictions

TP!  You’ve sold me!  Nice to picture him and Robert Williams duo in a couple years next to Kyrie, Brown, Tatum...hope he shows good IQ at Duke so he can join a vet team like ours and be ready sooner
As opposed to later..