Is it really Doc's fault?

[kenmaine]

Yup.
Last night he Finally used Eddie House. Must have killed him to do it.
BUT, he sat Leon, just to show the world that he's still the boss and will do whatever insane thing he feels like doing. Not that I don't like Big Baby, but he was getting screwed by the biased/incompetent/corrupt refs the whole time he was out there.
He'll obviously play Ray Allen 40 minutes a game no matter how useless he is.
The way he jerks around House, Powe, and Rondo, and TA too, is just bizarre.
And Bahku, don't you realize that Tivo(DVR) was invented just so you can skip Doc's interviews. Pause the TV, go do something else, come back and skip the annoying and condescending "coachspeak".

[Roy Hobbs]

Nice post, Bahku.  In all my years of watching sports, I have never been so angry with a coach, ever.  No, Doc doesn't deserve 100% of the blame, and in fairness, not even 50% of it.  However, to see somebody who is so clearly in over his head, who has the unconditional support of management, bothers me.

The decision to drop Eddie from the rotation was ridiculous.  I understand why you want to get Sam some playoff minutes, but don't totally drop one of your top eight players.  The reliance on BBD last not was crazy, as well.  Doc caught lightning in a bottle with BBD in Game 5; he should have realized that and gone back to Powe, Brown, or Perk down the stretch in Game 6.  Instead, he continued to rely on Baby, even when he was playing terribly.  We were 4-on-5 out there for a large portion of the fourth quarter, and even when we cut it to 3, Doc refused to put a better player in there.

The sad thing is, so many of us predicted that Doc was going to be in over his head in the playoffs, and the Doc supporters bashed his critics all year long.  This is one of the most unsatisfying "I told you so"s in history.

Still, as I said, the majority of the blame for our losses falls elsewhere than Doc, and for that reason, I'm hopeful and confident that this team can continue to advance.

[tanner]

I hear ya, Bahku.  Good post.  Got me thinking myself.  The season's far from over but the Celtics have to do a lot of self-examination and DA may have to make some tough decisions after this one.    

In retrospect, bringing in Sam in mid-season may not have been the best move.  Sam had his good games and won us a few but at what expense ultimately?  I had been pushing for Sam all the while in the hopes that he'll play more integrated to the offense which won the Celtics 66 games and that he pays off in later rounds versus more experienced teams. I must admit I see it less and less happening in these playoffs.  

All that Doc has been preaching this season about ball movement, patience, pushing the ball, no 'hero shots' get thrown out with Sam--and these are things that have been conspicuously absent from the Celtics offense throughout this postseason.  It's very telling that our opinion of whether Sam the point guard should play or not has been reduced to if he's making shots or not.

As to Doc, I still am completely open to changing my opinion in these playoffs but so far it's not happened.  I understand many of the opinions (including mine) of Doc will never be completely objective or fair but it's just because we so want this team to win it all.  Doc will come back better next season, so will our young players and GPA.  The question is, will Doc be good enough for a team that despite all its veterans and superstars seemingly lacks leadership and poise under pressure,  a team with three 20+ pt career scorers yet struggling to put up points?  Do we want to take another year off GPA's window with Doc?  DA has gotten the best players he could.  Shouldn't he do the same with a head coach?

[Bankshot]

I hear ya, Bahku.  Good post.  Got me thinking myself.  The season's far from over but the Celtics have to do a lot of self-examination and DA may have to make some tough decisions after this one.   

In retrospect, bringing in Sam in mid-season may not have been the best move.  Sam had his good games and won us a few but at what expense ultimately?  I had been pushing for Sam all the while in the hopes that he'll play more integrated to the offense which won the Celtics 66 games and that he pays off in later rounds versus more experienced teams. I must admit I see it less and less happening in these playoffs. 

All that Doc has been preaching this season about ball movement, patience, pushing the ball, no 'hero shots' get thrown out with Sam--and these are things that have been conspicuously absent from the Celtics offense throughout this postseason.  It's very telling that our opinion of whether Sam the point guard should play or not has been reduced to if he's making shots or not.

As to Doc, I still am completely open to changing my opinion in these playoffs but so far it's not happened.  I understand many of the opinions (including mine) of Doc will never be completely objective or fair but it's just because we so want this team to win it all.  Doc will come back better next season, so will our young players and GPA.  The question is, will Doc be good enough for a team that despite all its veterans and superstars seemingly lacks leadership and poise under pressure,  a team with three 20+ pt career scorers yet struggling to put up points?  Do we want to take another year off GPA's window with Doc?  DA has gotten the best players he could.  Shouldn't he do the same with a head coach?

What makes you think Doc will be better next year?  People keep saying that after every year under Doc and it hasn't happened yet.  The guy has been coaching for 8 years now I think and he's just as bad now as he was 5+ years ago.  Don't see how that is going to change now.

I'm with Bahku, win or lose, a new coach is in order for next season.

[reggie35]

What I can't understand is how the organization went the extra mile on every other aspect of the team, to the point of paying luxury tax penalties, but they didn't fix the coaching situation. The only explanation for that I have is that getting rid of Doc would have been an admission that they had made a mistake, and they weren't going to do that.

For me, last night was on the refs, but, predictably, Doc went into fine avoidment mode.

It will take a miracle for the Celtics to win with Doc as coach. If they get bounced on Sunday, which given Lebron's preferred status amongst referees is a distinct possibility, and they don't can him, I won't be able to bring myself to watch next year.

[Roy Hobbs]

I hear ya, Bahku.  Good post.  Got me thinking myself.  The season's far from over but the Celtics have to do a lot of self-examination and DA may have to make some tough decisions after this one.   

In retrospect, bringing in Sam in mid-season may not have been the best move.  Sam had his good games and won us a few but at what expense ultimately?  I had been pushing for Sam all the while in the hopes that he'll play more integrated to the offense which won the Celtics 66 games and that he pays off in later rounds versus more experienced teams. I must admit I see it less and less happening in these playoffs. 

All that Doc has been preaching this season about ball movement, patience, pushing the ball, no 'hero shots' get thrown out with Sam--and these are things that have been conspicuously absent from the Celtics offense throughout this postseason.  It's very telling that our opinion of whether Sam the point guard should play or not has been reduced to if he's making shots or not.

As to Doc, I still am completely open to changing my opinion in these playoffs but so far it's not happened.  I understand many of the opinions (including mine) of Doc will never be completely objective or fair but it's just because we so want this team to win it all.  Doc will come back better next season, so will our young players and GPA.  The question is, will Doc be good enough for a team that despite all its veterans and superstars seemingly lacks leadership and poise under pressure,  a team with three 20+ pt career scorers yet struggling to put up points?  Do we want to take another year off GPA's window with Doc?  DA has gotten the best players he could.  Shouldn't he do the same with a head coach?

What makes you think Doc will be better next year?  People keep saying that after every year under Doc and it hasn't happened yet.  The guy has been coaching for 8 years now I think and he's just as bad now as he was 5+ years ago.  Don't see how that is going to change now.

I'm with Bahku, win or lose, a new coach is in order for next season.

It's not that tanner or any of us want him back.  It's that Danny does.  I 100% guarantee you that Doc is back next year, and I'd say there's a 95% chance that he gets another extension.  I hate that, but I think it's reality.

[Tenacious D]

More on rotations. Ray Allen is being tied up by Wally (Wally!?!?!s. When does get loose inside he is dwarfed: his reverses are getting swatted and he isnt showing that nice pull up like PP and RR. The situation screams for Tony Allen, who has the quickness to expose Wally and strength to finish at the rim. Sure, Tony defines loose canon, but for pete sakes, Ray's not having a good series and its just not a matter of getting looks. Cavs are setting the game pace and if the C's are to play at that pace they need a bull like Tony.

This is what bothers me about Doc. Too slow (or stubborn?) to adjsut. Too attached to vets who arent producing. Questionable grasp of exploiting matchups.

[tanner]

I hear ya, Bahku.  Good post.  Got me thinking myself.  The season's far from over but the Celtics have to do a lot of self-examination and DA may have to make some tough decisions after this one.   

In retrospect, bringing in Sam in mid-season may not have been the best move.  Sam had his good games and won us a few but at what expense ultimately?  I had been pushing for Sam all the while in the hopes that he'll play more integrated to the offense which won the Celtics 66 games and that he pays off in later rounds versus more experienced teams. I must admit I see it less and less happening in these playoffs. 

All that Doc has been preaching this season about ball movement, patience, pushing the ball, no 'hero shots' get thrown out with Sam--and these are things that have been conspicuously absent from the Celtics offense throughout this postseason.  It's very telling that our opinion of whether Sam the point guard should play or not has been reduced to if he's making shots or not.

As to Doc, I still am completely open to changing my opinion in these playoffs but so far it's not happened.  I understand many of the opinions (including mine) of Doc will never be completely objective or fair but it's just because we so want this team to win it all.  Doc will come back better next season, so will our young players and GPA.  The question is, will Doc be good enough for a team that despite all its veterans and superstars seemingly lacks leadership and poise under pressure,  a team with three 20+ pt career scorers yet struggling to put up points?  Do we want to take another year off GPA's window with Doc?  DA has gotten the best players he could.  Shouldn't he do the same with a head coach?

What makes you think Doc will be better next year?  People keep saying that after every year under Doc and it hasn't happened yet.  The guy has been coaching for 8 years now I think and he's just as bad now as he was 5+ years ago.  Don't see how that is going to change now.

I'm with Bahku, win or lose, a new coach is in order for next season.

It's just a natural assumption.  I don't think a team (its players and coaches) goes deep in the playoffs w/o learning more about itself and the game.  I'm not sold on Doc but cmon the guy's not a complete bonehead.

[Steve Weinman]

I hear ya, Bahku.  Good post.  Got me thinking myself.  The season's far from over but the Celtics have to do a lot of self-examination and DA may have to make some tough decisions after this one.   

In retrospect, bringing in Sam in mid-season may not have been the best move.  Sam had his good games and won us a few but at what expense ultimately?  I had been pushing for Sam all the while in the hopes that he'll play more integrated to the offense which won the Celtics 66 games and that he pays off in later rounds versus more experienced teams. I must admit I see it less and less happening in these playoffs. 

All that Doc has been preaching this season about ball movement, patience, pushing the ball, no 'hero shots' get thrown out with Sam--and these are things that have been conspicuously absent from the Celtics offense throughout this postseason.  It's very telling that our opinion of whether Sam the point guard should play or not has been reduced to if he's making shots or not.

As to Doc, I still am completely open to changing my opinion in these playoffs but so far it's not happened.  I understand many of the opinions (including mine) of Doc will never be completely objective or fair but it's just because we so want this team to win it all.  Doc will come back better next season, so will our young players and GPA.  The question is, will Doc be good enough for a team that despite all its veterans and superstars seemingly lacks leadership and poise under pressure,  a team with three 20+ pt career scorers yet struggling to put up points?  Do we want to take another year off GPA's window with Doc?  DA has gotten the best players he could.  Shouldn't he do the same with a head coach?

What makes you think Doc will be better next year?  People keep saying that after every year under Doc and it hasn't happened yet.  The guy has been coaching for 8 years now I think and he's just as bad now as he was 5+ years ago.  Don't see how that is going to change now.

I'm with Bahku, win or lose, a new coach is in order for next season.

It's not that tanner or any of us want him back.  It's that Danny does.  I 100% guarantee you that Doc is back next year, and I'd say there's a 95% chance that he gets another extension.  I hate that, but I think it's reality.

Truth.  Sad, perhaps, but most likely very true.  As always from RH (though KB24 might claim otherwise) 

-sw

[Shamrock]

As usual - nice post Roy Hobbs.  

The only thing I could add is Doc's infatuation with Ray Allen.  He routinely receives the most minutes of the "big three" and yet he is the weakest.  

Tommy suggested that when resting Ray Allen, Pierce should be moved to the two spot and Posey play the 3 (on Lebron) - I thought this made great sense.

Doc killed us last year with his infatuation with Telfair.  For all those who watched, Rondo was clearly the stronger point guard and yet he sat the bench most of the year.

I'll be the first to admit I was thrilled that we drafted Cassell - but obviously Cassell is over the hill and his glory years are behind him.  Eddie House was strong for us all year - and how he could be ignored in light of Sam's struggles is beyond me.  Kudos to Doc for finally bringing him in last night - but it is almost rude to Eddie to sit him for a month and expect him to be in game shape.  I was impressed that he was able to step in after a month on the bench and be as effective as he was.

Also - I am Rondo's biggest fan - but clearly he deserved to sit last night and it was a relief to see Eddie come in instead of Cassell.  Becasuse I'd take 48 minutes of Rondo playing poorly over Sam Cassell any day.

[Andy Jick]

here we are in game 6 of the eastern conference semi's, and doc is STILL trying to find his rotation...simply ridiculous.

his biggest coaching ailment (well, besides that little thing called strategy) has been his inability find a rotation and stay with it.  it was the issue when we had all the puppies on this roster, and here we are fighting for a championship and he still has no clue what he's doing.

sorry, but if ainge keeps this guy around he's an idiot.  hopefully, doris burke is keeping doc's seat warm...

[JS33]

I have to agree with Mr Hobbs for the most part when he says

It's not that tanner or any of us want him back.  It's that Danny does.  I 100% guarantee you that Doc is back next year, and I'd say there's a 95% chance that he gets another extension.  I hate that, but I think it's reality.

I'm not sure Doc will get an extension but I'd bet the farm that he will be back next
year regardless what happens the rest of the playoffs .

[hwangjini_1]

one more good post. i agree that at least some of the doc bashing has been overboard and last year the players carried some of the burden for stinking...both for lack of talent and for not playing smart basketball.

however, no one here should be surprised that doc has trouble with player rotations and ingame adjustments. that has been his MO for as long as he has been coach in boston.

for the season he was better with the rotation i thought. but come the playoffs and his bad habits are back.

why not put house in for at least a few minutes each game to keep him in game shape, and particularly when cassell is struggling? why wait so long? i simply can not understand coaching during the playoffs that doesnt adjust to the ups and downs of a player. the bench is deep enough to allow doc to make such substitutions more quickly.

next, powe played well early in the playoffs, then was taken out for his poor defense. baby was put in instead. i am ok with that and doc was right to try something different. but, doc fails to use match ups and seems to simply puts/keeps baby into games regardless of how he is playing. THE advantage to the powe/baby combo off the bench is that doc can match up and sub one for the other if one is not playing well. they each should be in the game at some time, with the "hot" one getting more time.

i also do not like that tony allen is not getting at least a few minutes in each game. he could very well be used more as a defensive player in the closing minutes of a quarter.

doc has not done a good job in the playoffs, but are we surprised? we can only hope that his ingame coaching and rotations are not fatal to this very talented team.

[Yakmanev]

Players have hinted their unhappiness with Doc as we know from the Garnett quote earlier in the series. It's safe to assume he isn't the only one.

Therefore if I'm Danny Ainge I hold a close door meeting with the players and promise them a new coach for next season regardless of outcome. Don't be distracted or lose focus by anything moronic he does and just play your game.

[micah kenneth]

I agree with most everything everyone is saying about the lack of play from key players Ray Allen for one looks almost as slow as Wally Szerbiac and his shot is being rushed constantly, Pierce holds the ball so long and when he realizes there's no shot for him his desperate passes usually results in a turn over or a fruitless possesion because he held the ball much too long, KG is passing the ball much too much during crunch time and that's not what so called super stars do in crunch time. KG is going to have to understand the moment and force his will on the court to bring stability and leadership to the team, he's passing the ball to Kendrick Perkins, Big Baby, PJ Brown and Rajon during times we need a inside score from him so that the other players can support his effort on the boards.
It's clear that this team is lacking leadership during crunch time, none of the three are stepping up, Ray Allen is nearly invisible with his play.
Pierce is playing dumb and desperate.
Rondo game is more than inconsistent, he's a negative on the court if he's not picking up assist and points, Delonte feels he can take Rondo.
Now I have something to say about Doc Rivers, I haven't yet seen him get on any of his players to make them accountable, I never understood why he chose to play Sam Cassell over Tony Allen, and I don't know why Tony Allen isn't playing in this series. Doc looks a little baffled himself as though he's not sure what to do or what to say or who to say something to.
Kendrick Perkins play is so bad that I have to assume there's nothing to say to him about his play at this point.
The C's are in trouble, Cleveland is going to be playing some desperate ball, and it looks like Lebron has Pierce's number.
Doc's substitutions don't make a bit of sense to me. Powe was doing a fairly good job of rebounding and scoring and for some apparent reason Doc gives Big Baby and PJ Brown Powe's minutes.
I am convinced that Tony Allent can take Delonte off the dribble into the paint and play very good defense against him.
Boston's lack of interior play has been exposed, as a result of being a jump shooting team they hardly go to the free throw line
There is trouble,
So it comes down to what team is more deperate to win this last game.