Author Topic: More reasons to draft Wesley Matthews.  (Read 9974 times)

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Re: More reasons to draft Wesley Matthews.
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2009, 03:22:59 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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o what's the point it's not like Doc will play him  ::)
Yeah, because it's Doc's fault that a mid second round talent in a bad draft isn't good enough to earn playing time on a team who's only goal is to win a championship.

Well there are a number of differences between Matthews and the young players we've drafted in the past. The first that Matthews stayed all four years at Marquette. He's not Tony Allen, or even worse Gerald Green, this is a mature player with a complete game. Also he played in easily the best conference in all of college basketball and was the leader of (when healthy) the 3rd best team in that conference, So this is not someone out of the A10 (Delonte) Big 12 (Tony) who had yet to face stiff competition.
You're kidding me right?

Tony Allen was the Big 12 Player of the Year on a team that he took to the Final Four and was on one of the top 4 teams IN THE NATION, not his conference. He was a first round pick and played four years of college ball.

Delonte West was a part of one of the best backcourts in college basketball in recent memory. His team was ranked #1 nationally to end the regular season and was again a first round pick and played three years of college ball. He would have been the A-10 Player of the Year had not the NCAA College Player of the Year not played alongside him.

BTW both were chosen in a draft that was considered extremely deep in NBA talent and has produced players the caliber of D Howard, Big Al, Emeka Okafor, Devin Harris, Josh Childress, D West, Luol Deng, Andre Iguodala, Josh Smith, JR Smith, Andris Biedrins, Kevin Martin, Anderson Varejao, Chris Duhon, and Trevor Ariza.

I'm sorry but Matthews isn't even considered a prospect that is as good as Gomes, Big Baby, Leon Powe, or Gabe Pruitt were coming out of college in years with very deep talent pools. Matthews is considered a late second round pick that is only getting some run because of a decent showing in the Portsmouth Invitational. Late second rounder in a bad, bad draft.

You have got to be kidding me? Right?

Actually, I'm not. First off, Tony didn't spend foru years at OKst, he spent two years at a JuCo before transfering to OKST.  Secondly, leading a team into the final four is not even remotely a barometer for success in the NBA. How many final fours did Paul Pierce go to? Ray Allen? Shaq? Iverson? Duncan? Nash?

For a point of reference these are the past 14 NCAA Tournament Most Outstanding Players:

# 1995 – Ed O'Bannon, UCLA
# 1996 – Tony Delk, Kentucky
# 1997 – Miles Simon, Arizona
# 1998 – Jeff Sheppard, Kentucky
# 1999 – Richard Hamilton, UConn
# 2000 – Mateen Cleaves, Michigan State
# 2001 – Shane Battier, Duke
# 2002 – Juan Dixon, Maryland
# 2003 – Carmelo Anthony, Syracuse
# 2004 – Emeka Okafor, UConn
# 2005 – Sean May, North Carolina
# 2006 – Joakim Noah, Florida
# 2007 – Corey Brewer, Florida
# 2008 – Mario Chalmers, Kansas

With the exception of Mello (and maybe Rip), none of them are setting the NBA on fire.

Now I am not suggesting that Wesley Matthews is going to be an all star. What I am suggesting is that a player ( who was in the running for Big East player of the year before injuries kept them from winning the conference) who was the best player on his team in the toughest conference in college basketball history, might be ready to contribute and able to win his coach over in letting him play reserve minutes. I am also saying, that college accolades do not translate to the NBA , as we have seen with TA and his Big 12 player of the year. If they did, Christian Laettner would be a hall of famer.

1.)The Big East may have had more good teams in their league this year than any other year but none of those teams were dominant, only really good. To say it was the best conference in NCAA history is hyperbole at its best. Just think back to some of the ACC years over the last 15 years or some of the Big East's back in the 80's or the SEC's recently. They were easily better than this year's Big East. As a whole NCAA basketball competition isn't nearly as tough as it used to be because no one stays four years any longer.

2.)There was zero chance of Matthews winning Big East Player of the Year this year with Thabeet in Connecticut having the year he did.

3.)Tony Allen played four years of college ball, same as Matthews, he just so happened to play two of those years in JUCO so he was just as experienced coming out of college.

4.) I only mentioned Allen bringing his team to the Final Four because you mentioned he and West didn't play good competition. Well going to the Final Four or Elite Eight means you had to beat good competition to get there. Oklahoma State played and beat 9 out of the 10 ranked teams they played that year. I never said that NCAA Tournament success equaled NBA success. You misinterpreted my meaning and did all that research for nothing because that wasn't my intention.

5.) You say college accolades mean nothing when judging NBA talent and yet make most of your argument for Matthews by pointing out his college accolades and possible accolades if he wasn't injured.


6.)Fact is you have not discussed what scouts and what coaches truly scrutinize and that is his game. And I'm sorry but his game is not to the point and probably will never be to the point of being good enough to impress Doc Rivers to give him meaningful minutes next year. He is an average to slightly below average ball handler, he doesn't have a good explosive first step on his drive to the basket, is an okay passer at best, is too small and doesn't have enough ups to be a SF and except for the latter 3/4s of his senior year was never a good outside shooter. His defense is college good but probably too slow to expect great NBA success on that end though he will be better than most SG's coming out of college defensively.

Re: More reasons to draft Wesley Matthews.
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2009, 04:05:34 PM »

Offline KCattheStripe

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1.)The Big East may have had more good teams in their league this year than any other year but none of those teams were dominant, only really good. To say it was the best conference in NCAA history is hyperbole at its best. Just think back to some of the ACC years over the last 15 years or some of the Big East's back in the 80's or the SEC's recently. They were easily better than this year's Big East. As a whole NCAA basketball competition isn't nearly as tough as it used to be because no one stays four years any longer.

I might give you some of the ACC leagues at the turn of the millenia. I would argue that the talent pool is wider than it was in the 80's, and so it becomes a similar argument to the "Was the NBA harder to win in the 50's or today" type of argument. 

2.)There was zero chance of Matthews winning Big East Player of the Year this year with Thabeet in Connecticut having the year he did.


Not true, once Blair dominated Thabeet in the middle of the season it became a wide open race. Had Marquette not lost Dominic James (When he went out it was in the first half of a narrow loss to UCONN and they were a top-10 team) Matthews could easily have been Big East player of the year.

3.)Tony Allen played four years of college ball, same as Matthews, he just so happened to play two of those years in JUCO so he was just as experienced coming out of college.

There is a huge difference between playing two years of JuCo and two years in the Big 12, to playing 4 years in the Big East.
4.) I only mentioned Allen bringing his team to the Final Four because you mentioned he and West didn't play good competition. Well going to the Final Four or Elite Eight means you had to beat good competition to get there. Oklahoma State played and beat 9 out of the 10 ranked teams they played that year. I never said that NCAA Tournament success equaled NBA success. You misinterpreted my meaning and did all that research for nothing because that wasn't my intention.

Right, I didn't mean to say that their teams didn't play any good teams ever. What I meant was, that they never played a schedule as grueling as the Big East's. You mention 9-10 for Tony's Cowboys. I'd be interested to see how many aside from St.Joes and Pitt were ranked or were ranked as high when the regular season ended.

And "research", c'mon Nick. Wikipedia cut-and-paste.  ;)
5.) You say college accolades mean nothing when judging NBA talent and yet make most of your argument for Matthews by pointing out his college accolades and possible accolades if he wasn't injured.

I meant tournament accolades mean nothing. Also, accolades in a weak conference ( ala Tony and Delonte) don't guarantee success. Tony was player of the year in the Big 12 averaging 16 points per game. 16!

6.)Fact is you have not discussed what scouts and what coaches truly scrutinize and that is his game. And I'm sorry but his game is not to the point and probably will never be to the point of being good enough to impress Doc Rivers to give him meaningful minutes next year. He is an average to slightly below average ball handler, he doesn't have a good explosive first step on his drive to the basket, is an okay passer at best, is too small and doesn't have enough ups to be a SF and except for the latter 3/4s of his senior year was never a good outside shooter. His defense is college good but probably too slow to expect great NBA success on that end though he will be better than most SG's coming out of college defensively.

I understand all the negatives scouts have ascribed to him. But I think he drops for two reasons, in a weak draft people go for athleticism rather than brains, and two because I think he's a huge sleeper. I've watched him play for four years and he has never stopped making huge improvements.

C'mon Nicjk, everyone's allowed their binky.

Re: More reasons to draft Wesley Matthews.
« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2009, 05:38:15 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Okay, KC, have your binky!!

I wouldn't want to be accused of excessively tearing down anyone's binky and you are too nice a person to continue to diss your binky. He's a nice little player. Sorta like a smaller, less athletic Paul Pierce...kinda.

TP for the convo. And BTW, I would be very surprised if he is picked up by the C's, especially with Walker, Giddens and Allen already here. Heck, I'ld be surprised if he got drafted at all. Good luck to him though. Tomorrow's a big day for guys like him.

P.S. Thabeet won co-POTY award in the Big Bad Big East this year averaging 13.6 PPG so Tony's 16 doesn't look so bad.

Re: More reasons to draft Wesley Matthews.
« Reply #18 on: June 25, 2009, 02:54:23 PM »

Offline Cman

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Wesley Matthews?
I would be okay if the Cs drafted him.  Same for Lester Hudson.
Celtics fan for life.

Re: More reasons to draft Wesley Matthews.
« Reply #19 on: October 08, 2009, 09:37:40 PM »

Offline KCattheStripe

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WES MATTHEWS IS STARTING ON THE JAZZ PRESEASON TEAM. A) It doesn't surprise me at all that Sloan likes him B) it does surprise me a little that sloan puts him as a starter and buries AK47.

Also, nice job by CMan for picking Lester Hudson in advance. TP!