It's hilarious how the fanbase has turned 180 and would "rather have" Wallace

[Scintan]

Well, having veterans are worthless to you but the "rebuild" is worthless to me. Seriously, if the MODS on this site banned the word REBUILD, I would mail them a check for $10,000.  If you're a Celtics fan, then you should want to see the team win and make the playoffs, not lose because it benefits some ridiculous "rebuild."

If I could give just one post a million negative TPs, it would be that one.

[Jonny CC]

Here's the thing:

Optimists around here like to talk about how young our team is.  How the team is succeeding despite having all of these young guys with a bright future.

Yet, we're currently on track to give significant minutes and major roles to Isaiah Thomas, Avery Bradley, Evan Turner, David Lee, and Amir Johnson.

A veritable parade of guys who are what they are and whose main value to the team is that they might fetch some value in a trade.

If this sounds familiar, it's basically the same spot the team was in heading into last season.  So we've gone through a full year of rebuild and the team is, if anything, more cluttered with "assets" and we can't even place our hopes on a top 10 picking coming our way.


The saving grace of a rebuilding team is typically that there are a handful of young guys who occasionally flash the potential to turn into something special, guys you can grow attached to and imagine as the future of the franchise. 

No such luck here.


Basically, refer to my "Revolving Door" post.

No way man our team is so good dude they're gonna be stars we just gotta let 'em develop why do you hate the Celtics you evil man you.

Lee averaged 18.2 points and 9.3 rebounds per game on 52.3-percent shooting in the 2013-14 season and then got hurt . Now all of a sudden he is suppose to suck? I don't get it.

His offense is mitigated by his defense, and his numbers are empty. He has consistently struggled to find playing time on a championship-caliber team, and he has never been the primary player on a winning team.
If you want more evidence of his greatness, look at his tenure with the Knicks. Contrast that with their win-loss ratio.

It sounds like you are describing Kevin Love too.  Love put up great offensive numbers while sucking on defensively on a bad team.  I'm not saying that Lee is as good as Love, but Lee is similar and comes with literally no risk.  If he sucks, he's gone and you get the cap space.   

[Scintan]

Do people really think that if we make the playoffs again with a win total in the 40s -- and maybe win a game this time! -- that big name free agents will suddenly be clamoring to sign here?

No, but you can't deny that it would probably make our chances better compared to if we finished last in the East

This is not a -------------> line.
This is a <--------------->

If you finish last in the East, you get a really good shot at the top pick in the draft.

Thanks. I think we all know that.
I just pointed out that finishing higher than last would improve our chances with the big name free agents.

This team just lost out on a player who chose the Bucks.  Are you saying that a two game difference (40-42 v. 42-40) would have made the difference?

Y'all need to come to reality.

I usually don't get into the treadmill/tanking/nontanking debate too heavily cause there probably isn't any one right answer. However, in the particular instance I will buy. If we had gotten the 6th seed (two more wins) and had pushed the bulls to 6 games because they were tuning out on their coach and battling injuries I do think it is possible some free agents could have viewed us differently than they do after our sweep by the Cavs. This is just my opinion, and obviously it is unprovable hypothetical but i don't think it is a ludicrous concept.

Delete.  I put that as a joke and then cut it, but it got through somehow.  Sorry.

The reality is that your position is probably not accurate, but we don't know.

[PhoSita]

It sounds like you are describing Kevin Love too.  Love put up great offensive numbers while sucking on defensively on a bad team.  I'm not saying that Lee is as good as Love, but Lee is similar and comes with literally no risk.  If he sucks, he's gone and you get the cap space.

As I understand it, D.o.s. also thinks Love sucks.

Lee doesn't even provide the floor spacing Love does.

[pokeKingCurtis]

I think the main thing here is people think Lee will "deserve" minutes.

He will earn the minutes. Like everyone else.

He will most likely play well. And he will, as a result, be a part of the rotation.

Having positive competition internally is not necessarily a bad thing. It's not a perfect situation, but if Jordan Mickey were to play 15 minutes a game this season, while everyone else is healthy, it means a lot more.

He has shown to be a consummate professional. Therefore, he will be someone the kids look up to, as well as try to beat.

[TA9]

Do people really think that if we make the playoffs again with a win total in the 40s -- and maybe win a game this time! -- that big name free agents will suddenly be clamoring to sign here?

No, but you can't deny that it would probably make our chances better compared to if we finished last in the East

This is not a -------------> line.
This is a <--------------->

If you finish last in the East, you get a really good shot at the top pick in the draft.

Thanks. I think we all know that.
I just pointed out that finishing higher than last would improve our chances with the big name free agents.

This team just lost out on a player who chose the Bucks.  Are you saying that a two game difference (40-42 v. 42-40) would have made the difference?

Y'all need to come to reality.

Boston was never in play for Monroe.
4 teams wanted Monroe; Lakers, Blazers, Knicks and Bucks.

So shortly: We will never know the answer to a scenario where Monroe had to choose between Bucks and Celtics !
But if the Celtics had a better record than the Bucks he could have most likely ended up here (If we pursued him). His agent said he chose the Bucks because they had a better chance of making the playoffs.

[gpap]

Pretty much most of them young guys and you're forgetting that they will give minutes to Sullinger, Smart and Olynyk.

Just how many minutes will they be giving to the aforementioned players with Lee, Johnson, Bradley, Thomas, and Turner still on board?

Lee played very little for Golden State, I'm not sure if he's going huge minutes with the Celtics.

Lee got little minutes because they're loaded with talent like Curry, Thompson, Iggy, Barnes, Green and Bogut.

We don't QUITE have that type of talent on the Celtics (despite the delusion some people may have that our roster was already of championship caliber.)

[pokeKingCurtis]

Do people really think that if we make the playoffs again with a win total in the 40s -- and maybe win a game this time! -- that big name free agents will suddenly be clamoring to sign here?

No, but you can't deny that it would probably make our chances better compared to if we finished last in the East

This is not a -------------> line.
This is a <--------------->

If you finish last in the East, you get a really good shot at the top pick in the draft.

Thanks. I think we all know that.
I just pointed out that finishing higher than last would improve our chances with the big name free agents.

This team just lost out on a player who chose the Bucks.  Are you saying that a two game difference (40-42 v. 42-40) would have made the difference?

Y'all need to come to reality.

I usually don't get into the treadmill/tanking/nontanking debate too heavily cause there probably isn't any one right answer. However, in the particular instance I will buy. If we had gotten the 6th seed (two more wins) and had pushed the bulls to 6 games because they were tuning out on their coach and battling injuries I do think it is possible some free agents could have viewed us differently than they do after our sweep by the Cavs. This is just my opinion, and obviously it is unprovable hypothetical but i don't think it is a ludicrous concept.

Delete.  I put that as a joke and then cut it, but it got through somehow.  Sorry.

The reality is that your position is probably not accurate, but we don't know.

It got us Jae Crowder on a very good deal.

Granted he's an RFA.

And people are gonna **** on this argument, because Jae Crowder "sucks".

[Jonny CC]

It sounds like you are describing Kevin Love too.  Love put up great offensive numbers while sucking on defensively on a bad team.  I'm not saying that Lee is as good as Love, but Lee is similar and comes with literally no risk.  If he sucks, he's gone and you get the cap space.

As I understand it, D.o.s. also thinks Love sucks.

Lee doesn't even provide the floor spacing Love does.

And that's why Lee doesn't have the contract that Love does.  He's not as good.  That being said, he's worth a 1 year rental for GERALD WALLACE!!!!  I honestly don't understant how anyone has a problem with this trade.  Danny made the Celtics BETTER NOW and NEXT YEAR.  People can debate the value of expiring contracts but $15 mil is more valuable than $10 mil.  That's simple economics. 

[YeezusChrist]

Do people really think that if we make the playoffs again with a win total in the 40s -- and maybe win a game this time! -- that big name free agents will suddenly be clamoring to sign here?

No, but you can't deny that it would probably make our chances better compared to if we finished last in the East

This is not a -------------> line.
This is a <--------------->

If you finish last in the East, you get a really good shot at the top pick in the draft.

Thanks. I think we all know that.
I just pointed out that finishing higher than last would improve our chances with the big name free agents.

This team just lost out on a player who chose the Bucks.  Are you saying that a two game difference (40-42 v. 42-40) would have made the difference?

Y'all need to come to reality.

Boston never was in play for Monroe.
4 teams wanted Monroe; Lakers, Blazers, Knicks and Bucks.

So shortly: We will never know the answer to a scenario where Monroe had to chose between Bucks and Celtics !
But if the Celtics had a better record than the Bucks he could have most likely ended up here (If we pursued him). His agent said he chose the Bucks because they had a better chance of making the playoffs.

BS!!!!

Which team looks like a better situation to you

Smart
Bradley
Turner
Sully

or

Carter Williams
Middleton
Giannis
Jabari Parker

It is not a hard choice

[gpap]

Sullinger and olynyk are not better assets than Lee's 15.4 expiring sorry.

Sullinger is perennially  overweight and injured, olynyk is not even starting quality.

Lee is injury-prone and not starting quality and he's 8 years older than these guys. It's not like we added an expiring. We moved an expiring for another one.

You may not believe in Sully and Olynyk as players for this team, but that doesn't mean you should kill their value for someone that Golden State has repeatedly tried and failed to move for any legitimate asset.

What's it going to take for you to realize Sully and Olynyk are not as good as you think they are. Sully's conditioning is always an issue and Olynyk lacks aggressiveness, looks clueless most of the time on the floor, can't defend and is an inconsistent shooter.

Are we watching two different games?

[PhoSita]

It sounds like you are describing Kevin Love too.  Love put up great offensive numbers while sucking on defensively on a bad team.  I'm not saying that Lee is as good as Love, but Lee is similar and comes with literally no risk.  If he sucks, he's gone and you get the cap space.

As I understand it, D.o.s. also thinks Love sucks.

Lee doesn't even provide the floor spacing Love does.

And that's why Lee doesn't have the contract that Love does.  He's not as good.  That being said, he's worth a 1 year rental for GERALD WALLACE!!!!  I honestly don't understant how anyone has a problem with this trade.  Danny made the Celtics BETTER NOW and NEXT YEAR.  People can debate the value of expiring contracts but $15 mil is more valuable than $10 mil.  That's simple economics.

Like basically every other move this off-season, my problem isn't with the move in and of itself but rather what it means about the direction of the team.

It's a solid stand-alone move that is defensible on its own merits.  Placed in the larger context of the rebuild, it's a little harder to get excited about, and in some ways pretty frustrating.

[D.o.s.]

It sounds like you are describing Kevin Love too.  Love put up great offensive numbers while sucking on defensively on a bad team.  I'm not saying that Lee is as good as Love, but Lee is similar and comes with literally no risk.  If he sucks, he's gone and you get the cap space.

As I understand it, D.o.s. also thinks Love sucks.

Lee doesn't even provide the floor spacing Love does.

And that's why Lee doesn't have the contract that Love does.  He's not as good.  That being said, he's worth a 1 year rental for GERALD WALLACE!!!!  I honestly don't understant how anyone has a problem with this trade.  Danny made the Celtics BETTER NOW and NEXT YEAR.  People can debate the value of expiring contracts but $15 mil is more valuable than $10 mil.  That's simple economics.

The problem is not with Lee as an expiring contract: the problem is with having to watch David Lee play basketball as we grind our way to another 40-ish win season and a four and out.

I think the $5 million difference is minimal: I asked what trades would be possible with Lee that weren't with Wallace earlier. I got one reply: Gordon Hayward. Excuse me if I'm not messing my jeans over prospect of being able to trade for the pride of Utah.

Expiring deals are only good if there's a deal to be made. Amar'e was a $20 million expiring... how'd that pan out?

Also I definitely think Kevin Love sucks. Good player who puts up numbers on bad teams and then gets paid like he can contribute on an equal level to a good team. Just like David Lee, tbh. I don't like either of them as players.

[Jonny CC]

I like how one opinion can be conflated to "everyone"/"the fanbase" 

David Lee sucks. Has nothing to do with Wallace, IMO, beyond the fact that I'd rather cheer for Wallace as our best cheerleader than Lee as our best player.

If David Lee sucks then what does that say about Wallace?!?!  Even if Lee was worse than Wallace (who never played), the deal is worth it for the additional cap space at the end of the year.   I don't understand your logic.

Wallace on the bench is more of a positive contribution to the Celtics than Lee playing 20-40 minutes per game. I don't know if you're familiar with addition by subtraction, but the inverse is a real thing too.

Pho, per usual, types faster than me and makes the point better.

Although it's possible that Lee will spur on the rebirth of post play in the Garden as opposing teams get the ball down low against him night after night.

How do you know this?  You know for a fact that Wallace is a better influence in the locker-room than Lee??  This is clearly making stuff up just to have a differing opinion with no facts to back up your stance.  Keep reaching...trying to convince yourself that it's a bad deal.   

[PhoSita]

I got one reply: Gordon Hayward. Excuse me if I'm not messing my jeans over prospect of being able to trade for the pride of Utah.

That got an actual LOL out of me.