NBA 2018 Playoffs Thread

[SparzWizard]

Pretty odd that Cavaliers @ Raptors game starts at 6 EST on ESPN. A very early start time than usual on a weekday.

But the Celtics got the TNT game. Hope we win.

[GreenEnvy]

Pretty odd that Cavaliers @ Raptors game starts at 6 EST on ESPN. A very early start time than usual on a weekday.

But the Celtics got the TNT game. Hope we win.

We have the 6:00 game Monday in Philly.

I don’t understand why they set it up so that the East and West alternate days. Should be one West and one East series each night.

When they are in GSW or Utah, you can start the East at 8:00, West start at 10:30. When they are in New Orleans or Houston, start the East at 7:00 and West at 9:30.

I hope there are other factors that make some sense, because otherwise it really doesn’t.

[trickybilly]

It's funny jazz have had a more impressive post season than 76ers, but even before they were playing the Celtics hats all we heard about. Jazz are a great young team. Mitchell seems like a future all star for sure and gobert is only 25. Great pair to build around

Hayward to the Jazz in a LeBron style come to jesus thing?

[MattyIce]

Pretty odd that Cavaliers @ Raptors game starts at 6 EST on ESPN. A very early start time than usual on a weekday.

But the Celtics got the TNT game. Hope we win.

We have the 6:00 game Monday in Philly.

I don’t understand why they set it up so that the East and West alternate days. Should be one West and one East series each night.

When they are in GSW or Utah, you can start the East at 8:00, West start at 10:30. When they are in New Orleans or Houston, start the East at 7:00 and West at 9:30.

I hope there are other factors that make some sense, because otherwise it really doesn’t.

the bruins home game supposedly was the culprit otherwise we would have played tonight before the west game

[SparzWizard]

Pretty odd that Cavaliers @ Raptors game starts at 6 EST on ESPN. A very early start time than usual on a weekday.

But the Celtics got the TNT game. Hope we win.

We have the 6:00 game Monday in Philly.

I don’t understand why they set it up so that the East and West alternate days. Should be one West and one East series each night.

When they are in GSW or Utah, you can start the East at 8:00, West start at 10:30. When they are in New Orleans or Houston, start the East at 7:00 and West at 9:30.

I hope there are other factors that make some sense, because otherwise it really doesn’t.

the bruins home game supposedly was the culprit otherwise we would have played tonight before the west game

Ohhh, makes sense. At least the Bruins "took a bullet" for the Celtics in getting an extra day off.

But since I live in the West coast, not very used (or rather, uncommon) to seeing a game starting at 3PM (PST) on a weekday lol. If it was games on national holidays then yeah I understand.

Guess gotta get used to that time slot at least for this round!

[GreenEnvy]

Pretty odd that Cavaliers @ Raptors game starts at 6 EST on ESPN. A very early start time than usual on a weekday.

But the Celtics got the TNT game. Hope we win.

We have the 6:00 game Monday in Philly.

I don’t understand why they set it up so that the East and West alternate days. Should be one West and one East series each night.

When they are in GSW or Utah, you can start the East at 8:00, West start at 10:30. When they are in New Orleans or Houston, start the East at 7:00 and West at 9:30.

I hope there are other factors that make some sense, because otherwise it really doesn’t.

the bruins home game supposedly was the culprit otherwise we would have played tonight before the west game

For tonight, it makes sense, going forward though, it doesn’t. Boston is the only team that has an NHL schedule to deal with. Other teams may have arena obligations that we don’t know about, but they could have flip-flopped over the weekend or something.

Even odder, if either (or both) of the West series go to a 7th game, they will have THREE days off between games 6 and 7. They are both scheduled to play game 6 on Thursday 5/10 and then game 7 on Monday 5/14. No NBA games are scheduled May 12. I’m sure (or hope) there is a good reason, just don’t know what it is.

[mr. dee]

Did anyone noticed that once Jazz went small with Favors at the 5, they go on a run?

[Androslav]

Utah just eclipsed their playoff win total from the last season.
(clap, clap) A great and unexpected season for them.

[Moranis]

Did anyone noticed that once Jazz went small with Favors at the 5, they go on a run?

Imagine how good they would have been had Hayward stayed.

[Green-18]

I have never seen so many people bury a team after a single overtime loss in a 7 game series.

Seems irrational right?  It totally is.

But still, I was really blown away by how visibly the Raptors wilted in the moment trying to beat LeBron.

Some of that was confirmation bias, I guess -- it was what I feared happening and it seemed like that's exactly what happened.

But I can't explain how that game went any other way.  The Cavs are not a good team, LeBron is the only player on that team I fear right now (given that Love is clearly playing hurt).  The Raptors should be able to score on them.

Yet there the Raps were, despite everything they'd said all season about how they've changed, the offense bogging down, and their two All-Star guards completely unable to get a good shot and seemingly lacking any confidence to take a shot in crunch time.

The only guy on the floor who looked like he believed the Raptors should win the game was Valanciunas, and he apparently had spent himself by the end of the fourth quarter because he missed layup after layup.  Either that or Tristan Thompson had him spooked and rushing his attempts.


Bottom line, yeah, it's irrational, but it's also really hard to reach any other conclusion than that the Raptors -- or at least Lowry and Derozan -- mentally folded.  Yes, it's only the first game, but it's also hard to not assume based on the last few years of playoff history that Game 1 won't be representative of the rest of the series.

I don't know man. If just one of the tips or three pointers goes in in the last minute they win and everyone is talking about how different the team is. Is Freddy Vander Fleet somehow spooked too? He had a great look, and he it was just unlucky for him that he missed it. The Cavs definitely stole that game. The Cavs could absolutely win the series, but piling on them now has gotten out of control.

I really don't think the reaction towards Toronto is unwarranted.  You cannot afford to blow a game like that against a LeBron James lead team.  As I have mentioned before, the history of LeBron's career says he will not lose to a team lead by players like DeRozan and Lowry.  The margin for error is absolutely razor thin.  Let's not forget that LeBron took our championship Celtics to a game 7.  He took the 2015 Warriors to 6 games without Kyrie AND Kevin Love.  Below is a list of every team LeBron has lost to in the post-season.

2006 - Lost to defending champion Pistons in 7 games.  The Cavs second leading scorer in the playoffs was Larry Hughes at 11.1 points on 31% shooting. 

2007 - Lost to the Spurs in the Finals.  No surprise here.  Parker, Ginobili, and Duncan all in their prime

2008 - Lost to the Celtics in 7 games.  This series was way too close for comfort

2009 - Lost to Orlando in 6.  This is the one sign of hope for Toronto.  The 2009 Magic are the weakest team LeBron has ever lost to.  Unfortunately I still believe his current supporting cast is much better than the group in 2009.  We all like to rip on the 2018 Cavs but the reality is that they are still stronger than his pre-Miami teams.

2010 - Lost to the Celtics in 6.  This is where we broke LeBron. 

2011 - Lost to the Mavericks in 6.  Miami was significantly more talented but Dirk stepped up HUGE in the 4th quarter of these games.  Same goes for Jason Terry.  This Dallas team was insanely clutch during that series.

2014 - Lost to the Spurs in 5.  This was the breakout series for Kawhi Leonard.  The Spurs offense was beautiful to watch and the Heat failed to score 100 points in any game.

2015 - Lost to the Warriors in 6 - No Kyrie or Kevin Love

2017 - Lost to Warriors in 5

So basically LeBron hasn't lost to a team without a surefire Hall of Famer since the Pistons in 2006.  I suppose I could add the 2009 Magic to that list.  Technically Dwight Howard will probably make the Hall of Fame but he's not a winner IMO.

[celticsclay]

I have never seen so many people bury a team after a single overtime loss in a 7 game series.

Seems irrational right?  It totally is.

But still, I was really blown away by how visibly the Raptors wilted in the moment trying to beat LeBron.

Some of that was confirmation bias, I guess -- it was what I feared happening and it seemed like that's exactly what happened.

But I can't explain how that game went any other way.  The Cavs are not a good team, LeBron is the only player on that team I fear right now (given that Love is clearly playing hurt).  The Raptors should be able to score on them.

Yet there the Raps were, despite everything they'd said all season about how they've changed, the offense bogging down, and their two All-Star guards completely unable to get a good shot and seemingly lacking any confidence to take a shot in crunch time.

The only guy on the floor who looked like he believed the Raptors should win the game was Valanciunas, and he apparently had spent himself by the end of the fourth quarter because he missed layup after layup.  Either that or Tristan Thompson had him spooked and rushing his attempts.


Bottom line, yeah, it's irrational, but it's also really hard to reach any other conclusion than that the Raptors -- or at least Lowry and Derozan -- mentally folded.  Yes, it's only the first game, but it's also hard to not assume based on the last few years of playoff history that Game 1 won't be representative of the rest of the series.

I don't know man. If just one of the tips or three pointers goes in in the last minute they win and everyone is talking about how different the team is. Is Freddy Vander Fleet somehow spooked too? He had a great look, and he it was just unlucky for him that he missed it. The Cavs definitely stole that game. The Cavs could absolutely win the series, but piling on them now has gotten out of control.

I really don't think the reaction towards Toronto is unwarranted.  You cannot afford to blow a game like that against a LeBron James lead team.  As I have mentioned before, the history of LeBron's career says he will not lose to a team lead by players like DeRozan and Lowry.  The margin for error is absolutely razor thin.  Let's not forget that LeBron took our championship Celtics to a game 7.  He took the 2015 Warriors to 6 games without Kyrie AND Kevin Love.  Below is a list of every team LeBron has lost to in the post-season.

2006 - Lost to defending champion Pistons in 7 games.  The Cavs second leading scorer in the playoffs was Larry Hughes at 11.1 points on 31% shooting. 

2007 - Lost to the Spurs in the Finals.  No surprise here.  Parker, Ginobili, and Duncan all in their prime

2008 - Lost to the Celtics in 7 games.  This series was way too close for comfort

2009 - Lost to Orlando in 6.  This is the one sign of hope for Toronto.  The 2009 Magic are the weakest team LeBron has ever lost to.  Unfortunately I still believe his current supporting cast is much better than the group in 2009.  We all like to rip on the 2018 Cavs but the reality is that they are still stronger than his pre-Miami teams.

2010 - Lost to the Celtics in 6.  This is where we broke LeBron. 

2011 - Lost to the Mavericks in 6.  Miami was significantly more talented but Dirk stepped up HUGE in the 4th quarter of these games.  Same goes for Jason Terry.  This Dallas team was insanely clutch during that series.

2014 - Lost to the Spurs in 5.  This was the breakout series for Kawhi Leonard.  The Spurs offense was beautiful to watch and the Heat failed to score 100 points in any game.

2015 - Lost to the Warriors in 6 - No Kyrie or Kevin Love

2017 - Lost to Warriors in 5

So basically LeBron hasn't lost to a team without a surefire Hall of Famer since the Pistons in 2006.  I suppose I could add the 2009 Magic to that list.  Technically Dwight Howard will probably make the Hall of Fame but he's not a winner IMO.

I don't really understand this premise at all. When he lost to the Spurs Duncan was not playing at a whole of fame level by any stretch of the imagination. Neither was Leonard (and who knows if Leonard is a hall of fame player given all his injuries). This year Derozen was also probably a top 10 player in the league.

[Moranis]

I have never seen so many people bury a team after a single overtime loss in a 7 game series.

Seems irrational right?  It totally is.

But still, I was really blown away by how visibly the Raptors wilted in the moment trying to beat LeBron.

Some of that was confirmation bias, I guess -- it was what I feared happening and it seemed like that's exactly what happened.

But I can't explain how that game went any other way.  The Cavs are not a good team, LeBron is the only player on that team I fear right now (given that Love is clearly playing hurt).  The Raptors should be able to score on them.

Yet there the Raps were, despite everything they'd said all season about how they've changed, the offense bogging down, and their two All-Star guards completely unable to get a good shot and seemingly lacking any confidence to take a shot in crunch time.

The only guy on the floor who looked like he believed the Raptors should win the game was Valanciunas, and he apparently had spent himself by the end of the fourth quarter because he missed layup after layup.  Either that or Tristan Thompson had him spooked and rushing his attempts.


Bottom line, yeah, it's irrational, but it's also really hard to reach any other conclusion than that the Raptors -- or at least Lowry and Derozan -- mentally folded.  Yes, it's only the first game, but it's also hard to not assume based on the last few years of playoff history that Game 1 won't be representative of the rest of the series.

I don't know man. If just one of the tips or three pointers goes in in the last minute they win and everyone is talking about how different the team is. Is Freddy Vander Fleet somehow spooked too? He had a great look, and he it was just unlucky for him that he missed it. The Cavs definitely stole that game. The Cavs could absolutely win the series, but piling on them now has gotten out of control.

I really don't think the reaction towards Toronto is unwarranted.  You cannot afford to blow a game like that against a LeBron James lead team.  As I have mentioned before, the history of LeBron's career says he will not lose to a team lead by players like DeRozan and Lowry.  The margin for error is absolutely razor thin.  Let's not forget that LeBron took our championship Celtics to a game 7.  He took the 2015 Warriors to 6 games without Kyrie AND Kevin Love.  Below is a list of every team LeBron has lost to in the post-season.

2006 - Lost to defending champion Pistons in 7 games.  The Cavs second leading scorer in the playoffs was Larry Hughes at 11.1 points on 31% shooting. 

2007 - Lost to the Spurs in the Finals.  No surprise here.  Parker, Ginobili, and Duncan all in their prime

2008 - Lost to the Celtics in 7 games.  This series was way too close for comfort

2009 - Lost to Orlando in 6.  This is the one sign of hope for Toronto.  The 2009 Magic are the weakest team LeBron has ever lost to.  Unfortunately I still believe his current supporting cast is much better than the group in 2009.  We all like to rip on the 2018 Cavs but the reality is that they are still stronger than his pre-Miami teams.

2010 - Lost to the Celtics in 6.  This is where we broke LeBron. 

2011 - Lost to the Mavericks in 6.  Miami was significantly more talented but Dirk stepped up HUGE in the 4th quarter of these games.  Same goes for Jason Terry.  This Dallas team was insanely clutch during that series.

2014 - Lost to the Spurs in 5.  This was the breakout series for Kawhi Leonard.  The Spurs offense was beautiful to watch and the Heat failed to score 100 points in any game.

2015 - Lost to the Warriors in 6 - No Kyrie or Kevin Love

2017 - Lost to Warriors in 5

So basically LeBron hasn't lost to a team without a surefire Hall of Famer since the Pistons in 2006.  I suppose I could add the 2009 Magic to that list.  Technically Dwight Howard will probably make the Hall of Fame but he's not a winner IMO.

I don't really understand this premise at all. When he lost to the Spurs Duncan was not playing at a whole of fame level by any stretch of the imagination. Neither was Leonard (and who knows if Leonard is a hall of fame player given all his injuries). This year Derozen was also probably a top 10 player in the league.

His point is that DeRozan is basically the same level of outside shooter as Giannis is, however DeRozan is no where near the overall scorer that Giannis.  He doesn't rebound.   He doesn't pass well.  He doesn't defend.  He isn't a cream of the crop type player.  Couple that with him and Lowry both wilting under the pressure of the playoffs many times in the past and getting destroyed by Lebron every time they play meaningful games, and Toronto had to win game 1.  That is especially true after they got out to a big lead and once it was cut back, got it back up to 13 in the 2nd half, and couple that with both James and Love playing pretty poor offensively overall. 

Anyone that watched the end of regulation and overtime, and saw it on their faces, they were beaten mentally.  This isn't the Warriors losing game 1, this is the Raptors.  A team that has no history of being mentally tough or performing in the playoffs.  A team that has been eliminated by Lebron James the last two seasons in the playoffs, with last year not being close.  A team that going on had lost the last 2 games to the Cavs.  The Raptors are a regular season team, they are not a playoff team. 

Many believe the series is over because they are the Raptors.  Now maybe they show some stones and man up and actually win game 2, but that would be something they've never done before.

[Green-18]

I have never seen so many people bury a team after a single overtime loss in a 7 game series.

Seems irrational right?  It totally is.

But still, I was really blown away by how visibly the Raptors wilted in the moment trying to beat LeBron.

Some of that was confirmation bias, I guess -- it was what I feared happening and it seemed like that's exactly what happened.

But I can't explain how that game went any other way.  The Cavs are not a good team, LeBron is the only player on that team I fear right now (given that Love is clearly playing hurt).  The Raptors should be able to score on them.

Yet there the Raps were, despite everything they'd said all season about how they've changed, the offense bogging down, and their two All-Star guards completely unable to get a good shot and seemingly lacking any confidence to take a shot in crunch time.

The only guy on the floor who looked like he believed the Raptors should win the game was Valanciunas, and he apparently had spent himself by the end of the fourth quarter because he missed layup after layup.  Either that or Tristan Thompson had him spooked and rushing his attempts.


Bottom line, yeah, it's irrational, but it's also really hard to reach any other conclusion than that the Raptors -- or at least Lowry and Derozan -- mentally folded.  Yes, it's only the first game, but it's also hard to not assume based on the last few years of playoff history that Game 1 won't be representative of the rest of the series.

I don't know man. If just one of the tips or three pointers goes in in the last minute they win and everyone is talking about how different the team is. Is Freddy Vander Fleet somehow spooked too? He had a great look, and he it was just unlucky for him that he missed it. The Cavs definitely stole that game. The Cavs could absolutely win the series, but piling on them now has gotten out of control.

I really don't think the reaction towards Toronto is unwarranted.  You cannot afford to blow a game like that against a LeBron James lead team.  As I have mentioned before, the history of LeBron's career says he will not lose to a team lead by players like DeRozan and Lowry.  The margin for error is absolutely razor thin.  Let's not forget that LeBron took our championship Celtics to a game 7.  He took the 2015 Warriors to 6 games without Kyrie AND Kevin Love.  Below is a list of every team LeBron has lost to in the post-season.

2006 - Lost to defending champion Pistons in 7 games.  The Cavs second leading scorer in the playoffs was Larry Hughes at 11.1 points on 31% shooting. 

2007 - Lost to the Spurs in the Finals.  No surprise here.  Parker, Ginobili, and Duncan all in their prime

2008 - Lost to the Celtics in 7 games.  This series was way too close for comfort

2009 - Lost to Orlando in 6.  This is the one sign of hope for Toronto.  The 2009 Magic are the weakest team LeBron has ever lost to.  Unfortunately I still believe his current supporting cast is much better than the group in 2009.  We all like to rip on the 2018 Cavs but the reality is that they are still stronger than his pre-Miami teams.

2010 - Lost to the Celtics in 6.  This is where we broke LeBron. 

2011 - Lost to the Mavericks in 6.  Miami was significantly more talented but Dirk stepped up HUGE in the 4th quarter of these games.  Same goes for Jason Terry.  This Dallas team was insanely clutch during that series.

2014 - Lost to the Spurs in 5.  This was the breakout series for Kawhi Leonard.  The Spurs offense was beautiful to watch and the Heat failed to score 100 points in any game.

2015 - Lost to the Warriors in 6 - No Kyrie or Kevin Love

2017 - Lost to Warriors in 5

So basically LeBron hasn't lost to a team without a surefire Hall of Famer since the Pistons in 2006.  I suppose I could add the 2009 Magic to that list.  Technically Dwight Howard will probably make the Hall of Fame but he's not a winner IMO.

I don't really understand this premise at all. When he lost to the Spurs Duncan was not playing at a whole of fame level by any stretch of the imagination. Neither was Leonard (and who knows if Leonard is a hall of fame player given all his injuries). This year Derozen was also probably a top 10 player in the league.

Duncan was no longer playing at a Hall of Fame level but his defensive impact was still elite.  Their entire core trio was intact and Pop is one of the greatest coaches of all-time.  You cannot ignore the championship pedigree of that Spurs group. 

Nobody expected Leonard to be Finals MVP but it's not like he was randomly thrown into the rotation during the playoffs.  Kawhi was already an elite defender and super efficient scorer in the starting lineup.  You would have a point if the Spurs barely squeaked by Miami but the entire thing was a complete embarrassment.  Miami didn't score 100 points in any of the 5 games.  San Antonio played some of the most beautiful basketball you will ever see throughout the 2014 postseason.

The premise o my post is that it takes a top tier player and/or group of Hall of Fame players to beat LeBron in a playoff series regardless of his supporting cast.  DeMar Derozan has been a terrible 4th quarter playoff performer relative to his normal standards. 

[celticsclay]

I have never seen so many people bury a team after a single overtime loss in a 7 game series.

Seems irrational right?  It totally is.

But still, I was really blown away by how visibly the Raptors wilted in the moment trying to beat LeBron.

Some of that was confirmation bias, I guess -- it was what I feared happening and it seemed like that's exactly what happened.

But I can't explain how that game went any other way.  The Cavs are not a good team, LeBron is the only player on that team I fear right now (given that Love is clearly playing hurt).  The Raptors should be able to score on them.

Yet there the Raps were, despite everything they'd said all season about how they've changed, the offense bogging down, and their two All-Star guards completely unable to get a good shot and seemingly lacking any confidence to take a shot in crunch time.

The only guy on the floor who looked like he believed the Raptors should win the game was Valanciunas, and he apparently had spent himself by the end of the fourth quarter because he missed layup after layup.  Either that or Tristan Thompson had him spooked and rushing his attempts.


Bottom line, yeah, it's irrational, but it's also really hard to reach any other conclusion than that the Raptors -- or at least Lowry and Derozan -- mentally folded.  Yes, it's only the first game, but it's also hard to not assume based on the last few years of playoff history that Game 1 won't be representative of the rest of the series.

I don't know man. If just one of the tips or three pointers goes in in the last minute they win and everyone is talking about how different the team is. Is Freddy Vander Fleet somehow spooked too? He had a great look, and he it was just unlucky for him that he missed it. The Cavs definitely stole that game. The Cavs could absolutely win the series, but piling on them now has gotten out of control.

I really don't think the reaction towards Toronto is unwarranted.  You cannot afford to blow a game like that against a LeBron James lead team.  As I have mentioned before, the history of LeBron's career says he will not lose to a team lead by players like DeRozan and Lowry.  The margin for error is absolutely razor thin.  Let's not forget that LeBron took our championship Celtics to a game 7.  He took the 2015 Warriors to 6 games without Kyrie AND Kevin Love.  Below is a list of every team LeBron has lost to in the post-season.

2006 - Lost to defending champion Pistons in 7 games.  The Cavs second leading scorer in the playoffs was Larry Hughes at 11.1 points on 31% shooting. 

2007 - Lost to the Spurs in the Finals.  No surprise here.  Parker, Ginobili, and Duncan all in their prime

2008 - Lost to the Celtics in 7 games.  This series was way too close for comfort

2009 - Lost to Orlando in 6.  This is the one sign of hope for Toronto.  The 2009 Magic are the weakest team LeBron has ever lost to.  Unfortunately I still believe his current supporting cast is much better than the group in 2009.  We all like to rip on the 2018 Cavs but the reality is that they are still stronger than his pre-Miami teams.

2010 - Lost to the Celtics in 6.  This is where we broke LeBron. 

2011 - Lost to the Mavericks in 6.  Miami was significantly more talented but Dirk stepped up HUGE in the 4th quarter of these games.  Same goes for Jason Terry.  This Dallas team was insanely clutch during that series.

2014 - Lost to the Spurs in 5.  This was the breakout series for Kawhi Leonard.  The Spurs offense was beautiful to watch and the Heat failed to score 100 points in any game.

2015 - Lost to the Warriors in 6 - No Kyrie or Kevin Love

2017 - Lost to Warriors in 5

So basically LeBron hasn't lost to a team without a surefire Hall of Famer since the Pistons in 2006.  I suppose I could add the 2009 Magic to that list.  Technically Dwight Howard will probably make the Hall of Fame but he's not a winner IMO.

I don't really understand this premise at all. When he lost to the Spurs Duncan was not playing at a whole of fame level by any stretch of the imagination. Neither was Leonard (and who knows if Leonard is a hall of fame player given all his injuries). This year Derozen was also probably a top 10 player in the league.

His point is that DeRozan is basically the same level of outside shooter as Giannis is, however DeRozan is no where near the overall scorer that Giannis.  He doesn't rebound.   He doesn't pass well.  He doesn't defend.  He isn't a cream of the crop type player.  Couple that with him and Lowry both wilting under the pressure of the playoffs many times in the past and getting destroyed by Lebron every time they play meaningful games, and Toronto had to win game 1.  That is especially true after they got out to a big lead and once it was cut back, got it back up to 13 in the 2nd half, and couple that with both James and Love playing pretty poor offensively overall. 

Anyone that watched the end of regulation and overtime, and saw it on their faces, they were beaten mentally.  This isn't the Warriors losing game 1, this is the Raptors.  A team that has no history of being mentally tough or performing in the playoffs.  A team that has been eliminated by Lebron James the last two seasons in the playoffs, with last year not being close.  A team that going on had lost the last 2 games to the Cavs.  The Raptors are a regular season team, they are not a playoff team. 

Many believe the series is over because they are the Raptors.  Now maybe they show some stones and man up and actually win game 2, but that would be something they've never done before.

Man you have written this exact same thing like 8 times. Everyone on the board knows what you think at this point. Given that you have already said this multiple times, and I am directly asking another poster a question could you not say this again and let him speak for himself?

[celticsclay]

I have never seen so many people bury a team after a single overtime loss in a 7 game series.

Seems irrational right?  It totally is.

But still, I was really blown away by how visibly the Raptors wilted in the moment trying to beat LeBron.

Some of that was confirmation bias, I guess -- it was what I feared happening and it seemed like that's exactly what happened.

But I can't explain how that game went any other way.  The Cavs are not a good team, LeBron is the only player on that team I fear right now (given that Love is clearly playing hurt).  The Raptors should be able to score on them.

Yet there the Raps were, despite everything they'd said all season about how they've changed, the offense bogging down, and their two All-Star guards completely unable to get a good shot and seemingly lacking any confidence to take a shot in crunch time.

The only guy on the floor who looked like he believed the Raptors should win the game was Valanciunas, and he apparently had spent himself by the end of the fourth quarter because he missed layup after layup.  Either that or Tristan Thompson had him spooked and rushing his attempts.


Bottom line, yeah, it's irrational, but it's also really hard to reach any other conclusion than that the Raptors -- or at least Lowry and Derozan -- mentally folded.  Yes, it's only the first game, but it's also hard to not assume based on the last few years of playoff history that Game 1 won't be representative of the rest of the series.

I don't know man. If just one of the tips or three pointers goes in in the last minute they win and everyone is talking about how different the team is. Is Freddy Vander Fleet somehow spooked too? He had a great look, and he it was just unlucky for him that he missed it. The Cavs definitely stole that game. The Cavs could absolutely win the series, but piling on them now has gotten out of control.

I really don't think the reaction towards Toronto is unwarranted.  You cannot afford to blow a game like that against a LeBron James lead team.  As I have mentioned before, the history of LeBron's career says he will not lose to a team lead by players like DeRozan and Lowry.  The margin for error is absolutely razor thin.  Let's not forget that LeBron took our championship Celtics to a game 7.  He took the 2015 Warriors to 6 games without Kyrie AND Kevin Love.  Below is a list of every team LeBron has lost to in the post-season.

2006 - Lost to defending champion Pistons in 7 games.  The Cavs second leading scorer in the playoffs was Larry Hughes at 11.1 points on 31% shooting. 

2007 - Lost to the Spurs in the Finals.  No surprise here.  Parker, Ginobili, and Duncan all in their prime

2008 - Lost to the Celtics in 7 games.  This series was way too close for comfort

2009 - Lost to Orlando in 6.  This is the one sign of hope for Toronto.  The 2009 Magic are the weakest team LeBron has ever lost to.  Unfortunately I still believe his current supporting cast is much better than the group in 2009.  We all like to rip on the 2018 Cavs but the reality is that they are still stronger than his pre-Miami teams.

2010 - Lost to the Celtics in 6.  This is where we broke LeBron. 

2011 - Lost to the Mavericks in 6.  Miami was significantly more talented but Dirk stepped up HUGE in the 4th quarter of these games.  Same goes for Jason Terry.  This Dallas team was insanely clutch during that series.

2014 - Lost to the Spurs in 5.  This was the breakout series for Kawhi Leonard.  The Spurs offense was beautiful to watch and the Heat failed to score 100 points in any game.

2015 - Lost to the Warriors in 6 - No Kyrie or Kevin Love

2017 - Lost to Warriors in 5

So basically LeBron hasn't lost to a team without a surefire Hall of Famer since the Pistons in 2006.  I suppose I could add the 2009 Magic to that list.  Technically Dwight Howard will probably make the Hall of Fame but he's not a winner IMO.

I don't really understand this premise at all. When he lost to the Spurs Duncan was not playing at a whole of fame level by any stretch of the imagination. Neither was Leonard (and who knows if Leonard is a hall of fame player given all his injuries). This year Derozen was also probably a top 10 player in the league.

Duncan was no longer playing at a Hall of Fame level but his defensive impact was still elite.  Their entire core trio was intact and Pop is one of the greatest coaches of all-time.  You cannot ignore the championship pedigree of that Spurs group. 

Nobody expected Leonard to be Finals MVP but it's not like he was randomly thrown into the rotation during the playoffs.  Kawhi was already an elite defender and super efficient scorer in the starting lineup.  You would have a point if the Spurs barely squeaked by Miami but the entire thing was a complete embarrassment.  Miami didn't score 100 points in any of the 5 games.  San Antonio played some of the most beautiful basketball you will ever see throughout the 2014 postseason.

The premise o my post is that it takes a top tier player and/or group of Hall of Fame players to beat LeBron in a playoff series regardless of his supporting cast.  DeMar Derozan has been a terrible 4th quarter playoff performer relative to his normal standards.

What is your definition of a top tier player? Derozen was probably a top 10 player this year in the league. He started in the all-star game and added a new wrinkle to his game.

Also what is this Demar did so bad in the last 5 minutes of regulation when he performed so poorly?

He had a key block, 2 points and 3 rebounds and no turnovers and no fouls. I would like to see him have another basket but it is not like he was horrible on either side of the ball, but it seems like he was making the good basketball play. People are tearing him apart for making a pass to a wide open man for a 3 pointer. This is literally the same thing Lebron has done a million times in his career in closing minutes.