Author Topic: Hayward so solid  (Read 4448 times)

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Re: Hayward so solid
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2020, 11:36:14 AM »

Offline Jvalin

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Unpopular opinion here, but I truly believe that Hayward has been better than Brown this season. At the very least, he contibutes to team success more than Brown does.

Both Hayward and Brown are efficient scorers. Hayward is a better passer. Brown is a better defender. Imo, we need Hayward's passing more than we need Brown's defense. The only player on the roster with pass-first mentality might be Smart. Kemba is a willing passer, but he's a score-first PG. Wanamaker averages good assists numbers, only because he plays within his limitations. He ain't a pass-first guard. The C's are 25th in the league in assists per game. We desperately need Hayward's passing. He keeps everyone involved on offense, hence he keeps everyone happy.

Basketball is a team game. Replace Hayward with a score-first wing and the C's will become a dysfunctional team, like we were last season. This is the #1 reason I don't want us to trade Hayward.

Hayward HAS been more impactful towards winning (than Brown OR Tatum), at least as measured using Win Shares.  And that shouldn't really be surprising.  He's a much more experienced, all-star level player who is getting paid a max contract for a reason.  His skills are far more developed and broad-based.  He affects so many more aspects of the game.  There are very few things that need to be done on the court that Hayward doesn't do in an above average, positive way. 

Jaylen is 6 years younger.  He's still (steadily) adding new skills each year.

That said, Jaylen is at this point well ahead of where Gordon was back when he was in his age 23 season and looks to have a long-term upside that is much higher, health permitting.
Don't know about the ''much higher upside'' part. Hate to say it, but Jaylen is a one-dimentional offensive player. He can create shots for himself. He cannot create shots for his teammates (not consistently anyway). If you ask me, this is a big whole in his game. I don't think he will ever become an above average passer.

To a lesser extent, Tatum is one-dimentional as well. Having said that, I'm confident that he will become a more willing passer in the future. Yesterday's game was a good indicator of his potential as a passer. He was coming off of an abysmal performance against the Bucks. He responded by picking his spots wisely, hence he recorded 8 assists and only 2 turnovers! That's how he should be playing in every game!
Fortunately basketball is played on both ends of the court - Jaylen and Tatum don't need to be the offensive player Hayward is to leave him in the dust in terms of player impact.

Imo Jaylen's issue is that he doesn't get enough opportunities on-ball to develop those skills in game. He's certainly not a good passer right now, but Brad putting him in that off-ball role doesn't help.
He can't play on the ball, cause he ain't a good ball handler though. I'm perfectly fine with the way CBS uses him. Can't think of a better way to maximize his impact on the court.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of Brown's game. I just like Hayward's game a bit more. I've said it before in the trade threads. Imo, Hayward is our 3rd best player.

Tatum > Kemba > Hayward > Brown > Smart > Theis > Kanter > meh
(I'm talking about this season. The C's got plenty of promising prospects going forward.)
« Last Edit: August 03, 2020, 11:46:58 AM by Jvalin »

Re: Hayward so solid
« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2020, 12:08:01 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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Unpopular opinion here, but I truly believe that Hayward has been better than Brown this season. At the very least, he contibutes to team success more than Brown does.

Both Hayward and Brown are efficient scorers. Hayward is a better passer. Brown is a better defender. Imo, we need Hayward's passing more than we need Brown's defense. The only player on the roster with pass-first mentality might be Smart. Kemba is a willing passer, but he's a score-first PG. Wanamaker averages good assists numbers, only because he plays within his limitations. He ain't a pass-first guard. The C's are 25th in the league in assists per game. We desperately need Hayward's passing. He keeps everyone involved on offense, hence he keeps everyone happy.

Basketball is a team game. Replace Hayward with a score-first wing and the C's will become a dysfunctional team, like we were last season. This is the #1 reason I don't want us to trade Hayward.

Hayward HAS been more impactful towards winning (than Brown OR Tatum), at least as measured using Win Shares.  And that shouldn't really be surprising.  He's a much more experienced, all-star level player who is getting paid a max contract for a reason.  His skills are far more developed and broad-based.  He affects so many more aspects of the game.  There are very few things that need to be done on the court that Hayward doesn't do in an above average, positive way. 

Jaylen is 6 years younger.  He's still (steadily) adding new skills each year.

That said, Jaylen is at this point well ahead of where Gordon was back when he was in his age 23 season and looks to have a long-term upside that is much higher, health permitting.
Don't know about the ''much higher upside'' part. Hate to say it, but Jaylen is a one-dimentional offensive player. He can create shots for himself. He cannot create shots for his teammates (not consistently anyway). If you ask me, this is a big whole in his game. I don't think he will ever become an above average passer.

To a lesser extent, Tatum is one-dimentional as well. Having said that, I'm confident that he will become a more willing passer in the future. Yesterday's game was a good indicator of his potential as a passer. He was coming off of an abysmal performance against the Bucks. He responded by picking his spots wisely, hence he recorded 8 assists and only 2 turnovers! That's how he should be playing in every game!
Fortunately basketball is played on both ends of the court - Jaylen and Tatum don't need to be the offensive player Hayward is to leave him in the dust in terms of player impact.

Imo Jaylen's issue is that he doesn't get enough opportunities on-ball to develop those skills in game. He's certainly not a good passer right now, but Brad putting him in that off-ball role doesn't help.
People talking about this like Hayward is a bad defender.  He isn't.  Plus, offense significantly more important than defense for guards and wings.  All you really need to be is someone like Hayward, which is to say you just can't be terrible.  Hayward is significantly better than terrible.

Re: Hayward so solid
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2020, 12:15:55 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I agree, Hayward has become the perfect complementary piece to Jayson, Jaylen, and Kemba.

It's going to be very interesting to see what happens with him this off-season.
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Re: Hayward so solid
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2020, 01:14:34 PM »

Offline Somebody

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Unpopular opinion here, but I truly believe that Hayward has been better than Brown this season. At the very least, he contibutes to team success more than Brown does.

Both Hayward and Brown are efficient scorers. Hayward is a better passer. Brown is a better defender. Imo, we need Hayward's passing more than we need Brown's defense. The only player on the roster with pass-first mentality might be Smart. Kemba is a willing passer, but he's a score-first PG. Wanamaker averages good assists numbers, only because he plays within his limitations. He ain't a pass-first guard. The C's are 25th in the league in assists per game. We desperately need Hayward's passing. He keeps everyone involved on offense, hence he keeps everyone happy.

Basketball is a team game. Replace Hayward with a score-first wing and the C's will become a dysfunctional team, like we were last season. This is the #1 reason I don't want us to trade Hayward.

Hayward HAS been more impactful towards winning (than Brown OR Tatum), at least as measured using Win Shares.  And that shouldn't really be surprising.  He's a much more experienced, all-star level player who is getting paid a max contract for a reason.  His skills are far more developed and broad-based.  He affects so many more aspects of the game.  There are very few things that need to be done on the court that Hayward doesn't do in an above average, positive way. 

Jaylen is 6 years younger.  He's still (steadily) adding new skills each year.

That said, Jaylen is at this point well ahead of where Gordon was back when he was in his age 23 season and looks to have a long-term upside that is much higher, health permitting.
Don't know about the ''much higher upside'' part. Hate to say it, but Jaylen is a one-dimentional offensive player. He can create shots for himself. He cannot create shots for his teammates (not consistently anyway). If you ask me, this is a big whole in his game. I don't think he will ever become an above average passer.

To a lesser extent, Tatum is one-dimentional as well. Having said that, I'm confident that he will become a more willing passer in the future. Yesterday's game was a good indicator of his potential as a passer. He was coming off of an abysmal performance against the Bucks. He responded by picking his spots wisely, hence he recorded 8 assists and only 2 turnovers! That's how he should be playing in every game!
Fortunately basketball is played on both ends of the court - Jaylen and Tatum don't need to be the offensive player Hayward is to leave him in the dust in terms of player impact.

Imo Jaylen's issue is that he doesn't get enough opportunities on-ball to develop those skills in game. He's certainly not a good passer right now, but Brad putting him in that off-ball role doesn't help.
People talking about this like Hayward is a bad defender.  He isn't.  Plus, offense significantly more important than defense for guards and wings.  All you really need to be is someone like Hayward, which is to say you just can't be terrible.  Hayward is significantly better than terrible.
You start wanting good defensive impact from your wings when you're regularly playing a wing in a "big" spot, Hayward leaves quite a lot to be desired as an average defender. You're also talking about his offence like it's game changing enough where it can completely dwarf strong to elite wing defence - it isn't.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2020, 01:20:41 PM by Somebody »
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Re: Hayward so solid
« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2020, 01:19:53 PM »

Offline Somebody

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Unpopular opinion here, but I truly believe that Hayward has been better than Brown this season. At the very least, he contibutes to team success more than Brown does.

Both Hayward and Brown are efficient scorers. Hayward is a better passer. Brown is a better defender. Imo, we need Hayward's passing more than we need Brown's defense. The only player on the roster with pass-first mentality might be Smart. Kemba is a willing passer, but he's a score-first PG. Wanamaker averages good assists numbers, only because he plays within his limitations. He ain't a pass-first guard. The C's are 25th in the league in assists per game. We desperately need Hayward's passing. He keeps everyone involved on offense, hence he keeps everyone happy.

Basketball is a team game. Replace Hayward with a score-first wing and the C's will become a dysfunctional team, like we were last season. This is the #1 reason I don't want us to trade Hayward.

Hayward HAS been more impactful towards winning (than Brown OR Tatum), at least as measured using Win Shares.  And that shouldn't really be surprising.  He's a much more experienced, all-star level player who is getting paid a max contract for a reason.  His skills are far more developed and broad-based.  He affects so many more aspects of the game.  There are very few things that need to be done on the court that Hayward doesn't do in an above average, positive way. 

Jaylen is 6 years younger.  He's still (steadily) adding new skills each year.

That said, Jaylen is at this point well ahead of where Gordon was back when he was in his age 23 season and looks to have a long-term upside that is much higher, health permitting.
Don't know about the ''much higher upside'' part. Hate to say it, but Jaylen is a one-dimentional offensive player. He can create shots for himself. He cannot create shots for his teammates (not consistently anyway). If you ask me, this is a big whole in his game. I don't think he will ever become an above average passer.

To a lesser extent, Tatum is one-dimentional as well. Having said that, I'm confident that he will become a more willing passer in the future. Yesterday's game was a good indicator of his potential as a passer. He was coming off of an abysmal performance against the Bucks. He responded by picking his spots wisely, hence he recorded 8 assists and only 2 turnovers! That's how he should be playing in every game!
Fortunately basketball is played on both ends of the court - Jaylen and Tatum don't need to be the offensive player Hayward is to leave him in the dust in terms of player impact.

Imo Jaylen's issue is that he doesn't get enough opportunities on-ball to develop those skills in game. He's certainly not a good passer right now, but Brad putting him in that off-ball role doesn't help.
He can't play on the ball, cause he ain't a good ball handler though. I'm perfectly fine with the way CBS uses him. Can't think of a better way to maximize his impact on the court.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of Brown's game. I just like Hayward's game a bit more. I've said it before in the trade threads. Imo, Hayward is our 3rd best player.

Tatum > Kemba > Hayward > Brown > Smart > Theis > Kanter > meh
(I'm talking about this season. The C's got plenty of promising prospects going forward.)
His ball handling is good enough to warrant more on ball duties imo even though I do think that he's currently in a optimal situation for his offensive skillset. I was talking about his current role somewhat limiting his potential to grow as a passer - you need reps on the ball to get good at it.

And I get liking Hayward's game more, I just don't think he's as valuable as Brown due to his average wing defence. I actually have him as our fifth best player, I think Kemba, Tatum, Brown and Smart are better than him (toss up for Smart/Hayward though).
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Re: Hayward so solid
« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2020, 01:32:57 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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Unpopular opinion here, but I truly believe that Hayward has been better than Brown this season. At the very least, he contibutes to team success more than Brown does.

Both Hayward and Brown are efficient scorers. Hayward is a better passer. Brown is a better defender. Imo, we need Hayward's passing more than we need Brown's defense. The only player on the roster with pass-first mentality might be Smart. Kemba is a willing passer, but he's a score-first PG. Wanamaker averages good assists numbers, only because he plays within his limitations. He ain't a pass-first guard. The C's are 25th in the league in assists per game. We desperately need Hayward's passing. He keeps everyone involved on offense, hence he keeps everyone happy.

Basketball is a team game. Replace Hayward with a score-first wing and the C's will become a dysfunctional team, like we were last season. This is the #1 reason I don't want us to trade Hayward.

Hayward HAS been more impactful towards winning (than Brown OR Tatum), at least as measured using Win Shares.  And that shouldn't really be surprising.  He's a much more experienced, all-star level player who is getting paid a max contract for a reason.  His skills are far more developed and broad-based.  He affects so many more aspects of the game.  There are very few things that need to be done on the court that Hayward doesn't do in an above average, positive way. 

Jaylen is 6 years younger.  He's still (steadily) adding new skills each year.

That said, Jaylen is at this point well ahead of where Gordon was back when he was in his age 23 season and looks to have a long-term upside that is much higher, health permitting.
Don't know about the ''much higher upside'' part. Hate to say it, but Jaylen is a one-dimentional offensive player. He can create shots for himself. He cannot create shots for his teammates (not consistently anyway). If you ask me, this is a big whole in his game. I don't think he will ever become an above average passer.

To a lesser extent, Tatum is one-dimentional as well. Having said that, I'm confident that he will become a more willing passer in the future. Yesterday's game was a good indicator of his potential as a passer. He was coming off of an abysmal performance against the Bucks. He responded by picking his spots wisely, hence he recorded 8 assists and only 2 turnovers! That's how he should be playing in every game!
Fortunately basketball is played on both ends of the court - Jaylen and Tatum don't need to be the offensive player Hayward is to leave him in the dust in terms of player impact.

Imo Jaylen's issue is that he doesn't get enough opportunities on-ball to develop those skills in game. He's certainly not a good passer right now, but Brad putting him in that off-ball role doesn't help.
People talking about this like Hayward is a bad defender.  He isn't.  Plus, offense significantly more important than defense for guards and wings.  All you really need to be is someone like Hayward, which is to say you just can't be terrible.  Hayward is significantly better than terrible.
You start wanting good defensive impact from your wings when you're regularly playing a wing in a "big" spot, Hayward leaves quite a lot to be desired as an average defender. You're also talking about his offence like it's game changing enough where it can completely dwarf strong to elite wing defence - it isn't.
I'm not really sure what you're trying to say with your first statement, but my basic premise still the same.  Offense more important that defense by a lot. 

Now let's get to the actual facts of the issue.  I agree with what was stated previously; brown is a very one dimensional offensive player.  He can be a good complimentary player but he does not have what it takes to really be the centerpiece of a team long term.  Not as good offensively as Tatum and doesn't do much of anything at that end except score.  Hayward is scoring less because he's accepting his role, not because he's an inferior offensive player to brown.  He's obviously a much better playmaker than brown well.  To your comment right above, I think brown is our fifth most important player.

As far as defense, where are we getting the idea that brown is so much better than hayward?  A little more versatile perhaps but Hayward actually has a higher defensive win share than brown does.  At no point have I ever heard that harward is bad or average.  Note also that win share on the defensive end are absolutely minuscule as well.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2020, 01:39:27 PM by droopdog7 »

Re: Hayward so solid
« Reply #21 on: August 03, 2020, 05:57:17 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Unpopular opinion here, but I truly believe that Hayward has been better than Brown this season. At the very least, he contibutes to team success more than Brown does.

Both Hayward and Brown are efficient scorers. Hayward is a better passer. Brown is a better defender. Imo, we need Hayward's passing more than we need Brown's defense. The only player on the roster with pass-first mentality might be Smart. Kemba is a willing passer, but he's a score-first PG. Wanamaker averages good assists numbers, only because he plays within his limitations. He ain't a pass-first guard. The C's are 25th in the league in assists per game. We desperately need Hayward's passing. He keeps everyone involved on offense, hence he keeps everyone happy.

Basketball is a team game. Replace Hayward with a score-first wing and the C's will become a dysfunctional team, like we were last season. This is the #1 reason I don't want us to trade Hayward.

Hayward HAS been more impactful towards winning (than Brown OR Tatum), at least as measured using Win Shares.  And that shouldn't really be surprising.  He's a much more experienced, all-star level player who is getting paid a max contract for a reason.  His skills are far more developed and broad-based.  He affects so many more aspects of the game.  There are very few things that need to be done on the court that Hayward doesn't do in an above average, positive way. 

Jaylen is 6 years younger.  He's still (steadily) adding new skills each year.

That said, Jaylen is at this point well ahead of where Gordon was back when he was in his age 23 season and looks to have a long-term upside that is much higher, health permitting.
Don't know about the ''much higher upside'' part. Hate to say it, but Jaylen is a one-dimentional offensive player. He can create shots for himself. He cannot create shots for his teammates (not consistently anyway). If you ask me, this is a big whole in his game. I don't think he will ever become an above average passer.

To a lesser extent, Tatum is one-dimentional as well. Having said that, I'm confident that he will become a more willing passer in the future. Yesterday's game was a good indicator of his potential as a passer. He was coming off of an abysmal performance against the Bucks. He responded by picking his spots wisely, hence he recorded 8 assists and only 2 turnovers! That's how he should be playing in every game!
Fortunately basketball is played on both ends of the court - Jaylen and Tatum don't need to be the offensive player Hayward is to leave him in the dust in terms of player impact.

Imo Jaylen's issue is that he doesn't get enough opportunities on-ball to develop those skills in game. He's certainly not a good passer right now, but Brad putting him in that off-ball role doesn't help.
He can't play on the ball, cause he ain't a good ball handler though. I'm perfectly fine with the way CBS uses him. Can't think of a better way to maximize his impact on the court.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of Brown's game. I just like Hayward's game a bit more. I've said it before in the trade threads. Imo, Hayward is our 3rd best player.

Tatum > Kemba > Hayward > Brown > Smart > Theis > Kanter > meh
(I'm talking about this season. The C's got plenty of promising prospects going forward.)
I don’t think that’s a valid criticism of Brown’s game any longer. His handle is pretty solid. He’s good at generating space for himself, and his burgeoning ability to shoot off the dribble from anywhere makes defenders quite afraid of him when he starts dribbling. However, he’s too turnover prone given his lack of passing nous as it stands, so I definitely get it if you don’t think he’s up to assuming ball-handling duties.

However, getting back to the OP. Love to see some Hayward love around here. He quietly put together a really strong Feb-March spell, upping his basic box numbers to 18-8-5-1-1. Glad to see that carry over.

He’s the best passer of our 3 wings (and maybe the whole team - it’s he or Smart), the 2nd best rebounder (although they’re all on a similar level there), and the most efficient scorer. However, as many have noted, he’s the worst defender. That being said, I still think he’s above average. He’s got good positioning and reads well. It’s just Tatum is an elite team defender and Brown can clamp people. Not to mention Smart.

Hope he sticks around for years!
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Re: Hayward so solid
« Reply #22 on: August 03, 2020, 06:06:03 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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As a Rock.

Glad he's on our team, healthy (FINALLY) and I hope he's here a LONG time.

Re: Hayward so solid
« Reply #23 on: August 03, 2020, 06:17:36 PM »

Offline jambr380

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Perfect player for this team and hope we can re-sign him at a reasonable rate this off-season (instead of him picking up his option). It will really be interesting to see if we are able to retain him on a new contract, but assume we are looking at $90M/4yrs at a minimum and probably even up to $100M.

Anyway, glad to hear Hayward won't have to miss as much time as previously thought for the birth of his child. If we can truly play as a team and utilize each player's strengths, we could go far. A healthy Hayward really is the difference between potential and title contender.

Re: Hayward so solid
« Reply #24 on: August 03, 2020, 07:05:36 PM »

Offline RodyTur10

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Unpopular opinion here, but I truly believe that Hayward has been better than Brown this season. At the very least, he contibutes to team success more than Brown does.

Both Hayward and Brown are efficient scorers. Hayward is a better passer. Brown is a better defender. Imo, we need Hayward's passing more than we need Brown's defense. The only player on the roster with pass-first mentality might be Smart. Kemba is a willing passer, but he's a score-first PG. Wanamaker averages good assists numbers, only because he plays within his limitations. He ain't a pass-first guard. The C's are 25th in the league in assists per game. We desperately need Hayward's passing. He keeps everyone involved on offense, hence he keeps everyone happy.

Basketball is a team game. Replace Hayward with a score-first wing and the C's will become a dysfunctional team, like we were last season. This is the #1 reason I don't want us to trade Hayward.

Hayward HAS been more impactful towards winning (than Brown OR Tatum), at least as measured using Win Shares.  And that shouldn't really be surprising.  He's a much more experienced, all-star level player who is getting paid a max contract for a reason.  His skills are far more developed and broad-based.  He affects so many more aspects of the game.  There are very few things that need to be done on the court that Hayward doesn't do in an above average, positive way. 

Jaylen is 6 years younger.  He's still (steadily) adding new skills each year.

That said, Jaylen is at this point well ahead of where Gordon was back when he was in his age 23 season and looks to have a long-term upside that is much higher, health permitting.
Don't know about the ''much higher upside'' part. Hate to say it, but Jaylen is a one-dimentional offensive player. He can create shots for himself. He cannot create shots for his teammates (not consistently anyway). If you ask me, this is a big whole in his game. I don't think he will ever become an above average passer.

To a lesser extent, Tatum is one-dimentional as well. Having said that, I'm confident that he will become a more willing passer in the future. Yesterday's game was a good indicator of his potential as a passer. He was coming off of an abysmal performance against the Bucks. He responded by picking his spots wisely, hence he recorded 8 assists and only 2 turnovers! That's how he should be playing in every game!
Fortunately basketball is played on both ends of the court - Jaylen and Tatum don't need to be the offensive player Hayward is to leave him in the dust in terms of player impact.

Imo Jaylen's issue is that he doesn't get enough opportunities on-ball to develop those skills in game. He's certainly not a good passer right now, but Brad putting him in that off-ball role doesn't help.
He can't play on the ball, cause he ain't a good ball handler though. I'm perfectly fine with the way CBS uses him. Can't think of a better way to maximize his impact on the court.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of Brown's game. I just like Hayward's game a bit more. I've said it before in the trade threads. Imo, Hayward is our 3rd best player.

Tatum > Kemba > Hayward > Brown > Smart > Theis > Kanter > meh
(I'm talking about this season. The C's got plenty of promising prospects going forward.)

I started those "trade"-Hayward topics, because if management needs to trade one of the core guys, Haywards makes sense for financial and future reasons. However I completely agree with this assessment.

Apart from that one peak All Star year I believe Hayward is fully back to his previous Utah level and so a top 40/50 player in the league.

The reason that Hayward's scoring numbers are a little down is because the Celtics iso-heavy system doesn't suit him as well as the Utah-system. Often in Utah's offense they'd use the full shot clock and the ball came back to Hayward in the end to make the final play to capitalize on the scattered defense. In Boston when Hayward moves the ball for a better opportunity he almost never gets the ball back. Tatum, Brown, Walker and Smart are all willing and capable to make tough contested shots and so they take shots that Hayward often passes up on.

Re: Hayward so solid
« Reply #25 on: August 04, 2020, 06:00:06 AM »

Offline ozgod

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Gordon can impact winning in a bigger variety of ways than Brown or Tatum. He's not spectacular and he's the most unselfish player on the team. It's probably the reason a lot of players wanted to play with him, they see things the average fan doesn't see and know that Hayward makes everyone else better. Sometimes you have to look closely to see how Gordon is impacting a game - it's not just scoring, but it's passing, drawing defenders, court vision or movement. Type of player where you notice that his absence changes the way the team plays. Brown and Tatum have less ways to impact a game, but they can make a bigger immediate impact because they can catch fire and be more spectacular, and can just go off and reel off points very quickly like they did vs. Portland. And also because they still have more of a shoot first mentality than Gordon does. They're showing signs of being able to impact the game in ways other than scoring and defense though, which is part of their development.

And most importantly they're all part of an ensemble whole, along with Kemba and Theis (the ultimate grunt player who does all the little things). Just need to make sure they're all singing from the same hymn sheet at the same time.
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Re: Hayward so solid
« Reply #26 on: August 04, 2020, 07:25:04 AM »

Offline Ogaju

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I like Hayward..he is a beauty to watch. The game is so slow for him. The way he , just seems like he knows his spots and can get to any spot he wants with seemingly little effort. I like to watch him play. Cs must find a way to keep him.

Re: Hayward so solid
« Reply #27 on: August 04, 2020, 07:28:05 AM »

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Hayward spreads the floor so well because of his corner threes and ability to back door and weakside rebound .There is no way to cheat on Hayward. His elite mid range game that seems forgotten in NBA. So his ability to hit threes,, to navigate the paint for pullups and fadeaways with solid ball control and excellent passing skills.
His ability to see the court and process make him seem unhurried almost like it is a video game. His game will age well, as he does not rely on elite burst or great athleticism.
His timing, anticipation and reactions are a result of how well he processes the game.
I rarely watched Gordon Hayward at Utah, he sort of plays basketball like an great tennis player all about effortless positioning, efficiency,accuracy and timing. Like Marcus is a superstar on defence Hayward is a superstar teammate for Kemba, Jaylen Jason and Thies.
.
I also think that Hayward is a very good mentor for Romeo .
His free throw shooting under pressure or in 4th quarter make him a must in close games. I think that his 3 point shooting will get even better in coming years. Almost automatic
Hayward could play here for a long time
« Last Edit: August 04, 2020, 11:04:59 AM by rollie mass »

Re: Hayward so solid
« Reply #28 on: August 04, 2020, 12:35:38 PM »

Online Neurotic Guy

  • Dave Cowens
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Just that there is discussion about who is most valuable on this team and Hayward is in that discussion is exciting. 

Gordon has been so reliable since the return in terms of passing and shooting.  He is hitting his mid-range shot and is shooting the 3 with confidence (actually has seemed to be looking for his shot at times) -- and GH hitting shots consistently is huge for this team.   I think he over-dribbles (as Brown and Tatum do) at times and he loses the ball in traffic.  But he's been really good on offense.   

When you think that the C's have Hayward, Brown, Tatum, Walker and Smart -- man, that is a talented core.   And with each of GH, JT and JB improving in varied aspects of their games (Hayward rounding back to form) it opens so much for Kemba and for Marcus who has gradually become a really good distributor.  The missing piece is still in the middle -- as much as I like Theis and Kantor as role players it feels not enough. 

Can't wait to see this team with Kemba playing 34 minutes and finishing games. 

Re: Hayward so solid
« Reply #29 on: August 04, 2020, 01:10:15 PM »

Offline Ogaju

  • Bill Sharman
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Hayward spreads the floor so well because of his corner threes and ability to back door and weakside rebound .There is no way to cheat on Hayward. His elite mid range game that seems forgotten in NBA. So his ability to hit threes,, to navigate the paint for pullups and fadeaways with solid ball control and excellent passing skills.
His ability to see the court and process make him seem unhurried almost like it is a video game. His game will age well, as he does not rely on elite burst or great athleticism.
His timing, anticipation and reactions are a result of how well he processes the game.
I rarely watched Gordon Hayward at Utah, he sort of plays basketball like an great tennis player all about effortless positioning, efficiency,accuracy and timing. Like Marcus is a superstar on defence Hayward is a superstar teammate for Kemba, Jaylen Jason and Thies.
.
I also think that Hayward is a very good mentor for Romeo .
His free throw shooting under pressure or in 4th quarter make him a must in close games. I think that his 3 point shooting will get even better in coming years. Almost automatic
Hayward could play here for a long time

TP Rollie, very apporpriate description.