Elton Brand joins Philadelphia 76ers

[Moranis]

I don't know if Brand will provide much veteran leadership but I have to say, the 76ers are PROBABLY looking to start improving after this season. With a team that young, filled with potential, they need some veteran presence in there. Far as I can tell or have read, Brand is welcoming the idea of being a veteran leader for the 76ers. It might be step of 1 of steering the ship around.

I say only time can tell, and see what other moves the 76ers are going to do.

Sure... and it's reasonable to assume that something like 5 of their top 6 players next year aren't on the roster this year.


Embiid (still firmly in the minority that believes he'll play... we've seen recent success with bone graft surgery ... Durant comes to mind)
Saric - isn't he coming finally?
Their top 3 pick - Simmons?   Ingram?  Brown?
Whatever they get for Noel or Okafor ... Marcus Smart?
Whichever is left out of Noel and okafor
45% chance they get a 4-7 pick from the Lakers - Skal?  Bender?  Dunn?
Whatever they get with Miami's 1st
Whatever they get with OKC's 1st
Whatever they manage to sign in free agency with 80 mil in cap space the the widespread belief that Colangelo is now calling the shots

I don't know why people even argue against it.  It's going to be an entirely different team next year no matter what.

That's a lot of variables still in play for a team that will have tanked for three solid years.

2 guys who have never played in the NBA.
4 draft picks, the best of which could be as low as #4, another they may not even get and two that may produce no better than decent role players.
Trading one of their best young assets when his value is relatively low.
The remaining young asset who will be either all offense, no D or all defense, no O.
Competing for free agents with numerous other teams that have plenty of cap space and will all offer more stable environments with greater opportunities to win.

Mike

  Not to mention a limited time frame. Those bigs will start coming off of their rookie contracts soon and probably won't be looking to re-up with a perennially losing franchise.

right because max or near max rookie contract players always sign 1 year QO's and leave.

[BballTim]

I don't know if Brand will provide much veteran leadership but I have to say, the 76ers are PROBABLY looking to start improving after this season. With a team that young, filled with potential, they need some veteran presence in there. Far as I can tell or have read, Brand is welcoming the idea of being a veteran leader for the 76ers. It might be step of 1 of steering the ship around.

I say only time can tell, and see what other moves the 76ers are going to do.

Sure... and it's reasonable to assume that something like 5 of their top 6 players next year aren't on the roster this year.


Embiid (still firmly in the minority that believes he'll play... we've seen recent success with bone graft surgery ... Durant comes to mind)
Saric - isn't he coming finally?
Their top 3 pick - Simmons?   Ingram?  Brown?
Whatever they get for Noel or Okafor ... Marcus Smart?
Whichever is left out of Noel and okafor
45% chance they get a 4-7 pick from the Lakers - Skal?  Bender?  Dunn?
Whatever they get with Miami's 1st
Whatever they get with OKC's 1st
Whatever they manage to sign in free agency with 80 mil in cap space the the widespread belief that Colangelo is now calling the shots

I don't know why people even argue against it.  It's going to be an entirely different team next year no matter what.

  Aside from the possible swap for for Noel/Okafor, though, all of your hope for improvement is some people who have never played a minute in the nba, one of whom is a major injury question mark. That's not a recipe for improvement in terms of wins and losses. It's also a ton of players to try and develop at once, especially if you want to be somewhat competitive at some point in time.

[celticsclay]

The weirdest thing for me with this is the inconsistency of assets. Oklahoma and Miami pick are somehow assets, but our low first round picks from ourselves and  Dallas  are basically worthless?

Right now the OKC pick is sitting at 26th and it is unlikely to move a ton from that spot considering how good a team they are and how many teams are under .500 in the west. The Miami pick is tied for 24th.

Are these really worth anything? Personally I would rather have the 76ers second round pick than the 26th because it doesn't lock you into a mediocre player for 3 years and you have more options for overseas players. We don't even mention the 76ers second round pick but here we have the OKC pick mentioned all the time as gold. Maddening.

[BballTim]

I don't know if Brand will provide much veteran leadership but I have to say, the 76ers are PROBABLY looking to start improving after this season. With a team that young, filled with potential, they need some veteran presence in there. Far as I can tell or have read, Brand is welcoming the idea of being a veteran leader for the 76ers. It might be step of 1 of steering the ship around.

I say only time can tell, and see what other moves the 76ers are going to do.

Sure... and it's reasonable to assume that something like 5 of their top 6 players next year aren't on the roster this year.


Embiid (still firmly in the minority that believes he'll play... we've seen recent success with bone graft surgery ... Durant comes to mind)
Saric - isn't he coming finally?
Their top 3 pick - Simmons?   Ingram?  Brown?
Whatever they get for Noel or Okafor ... Marcus Smart?
Whichever is left out of Noel and okafor
45% chance they get a 4-7 pick from the Lakers - Skal?  Bender?  Dunn?
Whatever they get with Miami's 1st
Whatever they get with OKC's 1st
Whatever they manage to sign in free agency with 80 mil in cap space the the widespread belief that Colangelo is now calling the shots

I don't know why people even argue against it.  It's going to be an entirely different team next year no matter what.

That's a lot of variables still in play for a team that will have tanked for three solid years.

2 guys who have never played in the NBA.
4 draft picks, the best of which could be as low as #4, another they may not even get and two that may produce no better than decent role players.
Trading one of their best young assets when his value is relatively low.
The remaining young asset who will be either all offense, no D or all defense, no O.
Competing for free agents with numerous other teams that have plenty of cap space and will all offer more stable environments with greater opportunities to win.

Mike

  Not to mention a limited time frame. Those bigs will start coming off of their rookie contracts soon and probably won't be looking to re-up with a perennially losing franchise.

right because max or near max rookie contract players always sign 1 year QO's and leave.

  Apparently you're unfamiliar with the term "probably".

[Endless Paradise]

"Probably" is still a gross overstatement since it's largely unheard of for marquee RFAs not to sign contract extensions. The last guy to do it before Monroe? Ben Gordon way back in 2009. Too much risk involved, especially for guys with injury histories like Noel.

[celticsclay]

"Probably" is still a gross overstatement since it's largely unheard of for marquee RFAs not to sign contract extensions. The last guy to do it before Monroe? Ben Gordon way back in 2009. Too much risk involved, especially for guys with injury histories like Noel.

there are two things to consider... one the cap is completely exploding so you can throw out a lot of historical data. In the past it was a much bigger risk that if a player didn't show the expected growth in their 3rd or 4th season they could lose a ton of money by turning down the extension and not playing out the QO. Now a guy like Noel could probably take the QO break his leg, and still get the max contract from one of the 28 teams with max contract spots available.

To a lesser extent, I am pretty sure this year the 76ers will set the record for fewest wins in a 3 year period. For a player like Noel who has been there for all of that, well that is obviously something that previous players have not dealt with.

You ignore these two factors and it seems like just sticking your head in the ground and blindly assuming everything will work out for Philly.

[Moranis]

The weirdest thing for me with this is the inconsistency of assets. Oklahoma and Miami pick are somehow assets, but our low first round picks from ourselves and  Dallas  are basically worthless?

Right now the OKC pick is sitting at 26th and it is unlikely to move a ton from that spot considering how good a team they are and how many teams are under .500 in the west. The Miami pick is tied for 24th.

Are these really worth anything? Personally I would rather have the 76ers second round pick than the 26th because it doesn't lock you into a mediocre player for 3 years and you have more options for overseas players. We don't even mention the 76ers second round pick but here we have the OKC pick mentioned all the time as gold. Maddening.

I don't think anyone called those picks assets, but there is a difference in the two teams, which makes those picks more valuable to a team like the Sixers, because they can actually use the players drafted, while Boston can't really do so.  That isn't to say Philly will actually keep the picks or the players drafted, as I don't think they will as they are starting to have the too many player problem (especially if they get the Lakers pick and Embiid and Saric are on the roster next year). 

[celticsclay]

The weirdest thing for me with this is the inconsistency of assets. Oklahoma and Miami pick are somehow assets, but our low first round picks from ourselves and  Dallas  are basically worthless?

Right now the OKC pick is sitting at 26th and it is unlikely to move a ton from that spot considering how good a team they are and how many teams are under .500 in the west. The Miami pick is tied for 24th.

Are these really worth anything? Personally I would rather have the 76ers second round pick than the 26th because it doesn't lock you into a mediocre player for 3 years and you have more options for overseas players. We don't even mention the 76ers second round pick but here we have the OKC pick mentioned all the time as gold. Maddening.

I don't think anyone called those picks assets, but there is a difference in the two teams, which makes those picks more valuable to a team like the Sixers, because they can actually use the players drafted, while Boston can't really do so.  That isn't to say Philly will actually keep the picks or the players drafted, as I don't think they will as they are starting to have the too many player problem (especially if they get the Lakers pick and Embiid and Saric are on the roster next year).

well clearly the biggest factor in this comment coming from you is your longstanding belief that all the fecal brown decay of the 76ers organization is actually gold. So as I have said in the past, pretty hard to take your views on this stuff seriously at all.

[Moranis]

The weirdest thing for me with this is the inconsistency of assets. Oklahoma and Miami pick are somehow assets, but our low first round picks from ourselves and  Dallas  are basically worthless?

Right now the OKC pick is sitting at 26th and it is unlikely to move a ton from that spot considering how good a team they are and how many teams are under .500 in the west. The Miami pick is tied for 24th.

Are these really worth anything? Personally I would rather have the 76ers second round pick than the 26th because it doesn't lock you into a mediocre player for 3 years and you have more options for overseas players. We don't even mention the 76ers second round pick but here we have the OKC pick mentioned all the time as gold. Maddening.

I don't think anyone called those picks assets, but there is a difference in the two teams, which makes those picks more valuable to a team like the Sixers, because they can actually use the players drafted, while Boston can't really do so.  That isn't to say Philly will actually keep the picks or the players drafted, as I don't think they will as they are starting to have the too many player problem (especially if they get the Lakers pick and Embiid and Saric are on the roster next year).

well clearly the biggest factor in this comment coming from you is your longstanding belief that all the fecal brown decay of the 76ers organization is actually gold. So as I have said in the past, pretty hard to take your views on this stuff seriously at all.

aside from the personal snipes, please point out which persons called those picks assets.

[SHAQATTACK]

Maybe he can still play for them ...

Him and Sheed would be an improvement.  ....LOl

[celticsclay]

The weirdest thing for me with this is the inconsistency of assets. Oklahoma and Miami pick are somehow assets, but our low first round picks from ourselves and  Dallas  are basically worthless?

Right now the OKC pick is sitting at 26th and it is unlikely to move a ton from that spot considering how good a team they are and how many teams are under .500 in the west. The Miami pick is tied for 24th.

Are these really worth anything? Personally I would rather have the 76ers second round pick than the 26th because it doesn't lock you into a mediocre player for 3 years and you have more options for overseas players. We don't even mention the 76ers second round pick but here we have the OKC pick mentioned all the time as gold. Maddening.

I don't think anyone called those picks assets, but there is a difference in the two teams, which makes those picks more valuable to a team like the Sixers, because they can actually use the players drafted, while Boston can't really do so.  That isn't to say Philly will actually keep the picks or the players drafted, as I don't think they will as they are starting to have the too many player problem (especially if they get the Lakers pick and Embiid and Saric are on the roster next year).

well clearly the biggest factor in this comment coming from you is your longstanding belief that all the fecal brown decay of the 76ers organization is actually gold. So as I have said in the past, pretty hard to take your views on this stuff seriously at all.

aside from the personal snipes, please point out which persons called those picks assets.

it is not really a personal snipe, although perhaps should have used better wording. It is a fact. You only ever say positive things about the 76ers and never say anything negative about them. I have asked you to specifically name anything that a team that is 3-33 has done wrong over the last couple of years and you couldn't do it. So it seems pointless to have debates with you on the 76ers based on that right?

[tazzmaniac]

The weirdest thing for me with this is the inconsistency of assets. Oklahoma and Miami pick are somehow assets, but our low first round picks from ourselves and  Dallas  are basically worthless?

Right now the OKC pick is sitting at 26th and it is unlikely to move a ton from that spot considering how good a team they are and how many teams are under .500 in the west. The Miami pick is tied for 24th.

Are these really worth anything? Personally I would rather have the 76ers second round pick than the 26th because it doesn't lock you into a mediocre player for 3 years and you have more options for overseas players. We don't even mention the 76ers second round pick but here we have the OKC pick mentioned all the time as gold. Maddening.

Only the 1st two years are guaranteed for a 1st round pick.  The 3rd year is almost always picked up.  I think Fab Melo was one of those that didn't have their 3rd year picked up. 

[LarBrd33]

The weirdest thing for me with this is the inconsistency of assets. Oklahoma and Miami pick are somehow assets, but our low first round picks from ourselves and  Dallas  are basically worthless?

Let me explain it to you.

OKC + Miami
Boston + Dallas
Rozier + Hunter

All roughly equivalent pairings. 

Philly's team is almost exclusively made up of undrafted scrubs right now BY DESIGN. 

When I suggest that their roster will be almost entirely different next year, I'm factoring in those OKC and Miami picks.   If Rozier and Hunter were on Philly right now, they'd be playing over the sitting duck waiver bums currently playing for Philly.   Rozier isn't a world-beater, but he'd surely be getting minutes over a scrub like TJ McConnell... and that means that whoever Philly drafts with those OKC and Miami picks likely will be playing over scrubs like TJ McConnell as well.  Considering that TJ McConnel has started 16 games this year for Philly, that's significant for them.


That's not at all to say that whoever Philly drafts with those OKC and Miami picks would get major minutes on Boston.  Obviously not.  Rozier and Hunter are blocked by other NBA players preventing them from getting minutes.  If we make a wide-sweeping trade or two, I could see both of those guys getting decent minutes for us. 

So when you look at Philly this year... what you see right now is irrelevant.   Even the worst of their 1st rounders this year project as better than the guys starting (like TJ McConnel). 

+ a basic lock of a top 4 pick
+ Saric
+ Embiid (who I suspect will play)
+ potentially a 4-7 pick from the Lakers
+ free agents
+ [Noel Slot] (him or whoever they trade him for)
+ [Okafor slot] (him or whoever they trade him for)

Of those 6-9 assets (depending on whether the Laker pick conveys, Saric comes over and Embiid gets healthy), at most only 1 of them is on the team this year.   Even worst-case scenario of Saric staying overseas (in which case his rights will probably be traded, but whatever... let's pretend he stays), Embiid never playing (not as likely as people want to pretend) and the Laker pick not conveying.... you're still talking about Philly adding a top 4 1st, OKC's 1st, Miami's 1st, likely trading one of Okafor or Noel for bare minimum Marcus Smart-level talent...  and endless pools of money to add a few veteran free agents (the team previously intentionally avoided spending money on any NBA players).    It's going to be a totally different team next year.  And that's why I'm telling you that something like 5 of Philly's top 6 guys next year aren't playing for the team right now.  That doesn't mean those 5 guys will be superstars... but it'll be better than the garbage playing right now.   They just need to finish out the tank job and start making moves towards trying to win.

[Moranis]

The weirdest thing for me with this is the inconsistency of assets. Oklahoma and Miami pick are somehow assets, but our low first round picks from ourselves and  Dallas  are basically worthless?

Right now the OKC pick is sitting at 26th and it is unlikely to move a ton from that spot considering how good a team they are and how many teams are under .500 in the west. The Miami pick is tied for 24th.

Are these really worth anything? Personally I would rather have the 76ers second round pick than the 26th because it doesn't lock you into a mediocre player for 3 years and you have more options for overseas players. We don't even mention the 76ers second round pick but here we have the OKC pick mentioned all the time as gold. Maddening.

I don't think anyone called those picks assets, but there is a difference in the two teams, which makes those picks more valuable to a team like the Sixers, because they can actually use the players drafted, while Boston can't really do so.  That isn't to say Philly will actually keep the picks or the players drafted, as I don't think they will as they are starting to have the too many player problem (especially if they get the Lakers pick and Embiid and Saric are on the roster next year).

well clearly the biggest factor in this comment coming from you is your longstanding belief that all the fecal brown decay of the 76ers organization is actually gold. So as I have said in the past, pretty hard to take your views on this stuff seriously at all.

aside from the personal snipes, please point out which persons called those picks assets.

it is not really a personal snipe, although perhaps should have used better wording. It is a fact. You only ever say positive things about the 76ers and never say anything negative about them. I have asked you to specifically name anything that a team that is 3-33 has done wrong over the last couple of years and you couldn't do it. So it seems pointless to have debates with you on the 76ers based on that right?

another personal snipe and you still didn't answer the question.  I'll take that as you have no answer and just made crap up and used the personal snipe as a deflection to the fact that you made stuff up.  Pretty typical.

[fairweatherfan]

So when you look at Philly this year... what you see right now is irrelevant.   Even the worst of their 1st rounders this year project as better than the guys starting (like TJ McConnel). 

+ a basic lock of a top 4 pick
+ Saric
+ Embiid (who I suspect will play)
+ potentially a 4-7 pick from the Lakers
+ free agents
+ [Noel Slot] (him or whoever they trade him for)
+ [Okafor slot] (him or whoever they trade him for)

Don't forget that if Sacramento is a lotto team (likely) Philly also has their chances at a top 3 pick in the mix, unless both are in the top 3 and Philly is higher.