2019 60 Man Draft Tiers

[CFAN38]

I have previously posted my draft tiers in another thread but have recently updated them and expanded to 60 players. I want to post this for posterity sake.

With that said the following are my tiers as of 4/12/19, I will update this as the draft pool is finalized, medical info comes out on key guys (bol and Porter) and the combine happens. I will try to get a little info/prediction on each player and will come back to update.

Tier   Player
1   Z Williamson, generational talent with superstar potential. A good point guard will really help his early success
   
2   J Morant, all-star potential true lead guard. needs to get stronger and further develop outside shot
2   RJ Barrett, clear all0star potential who will fill a stat sheet in the NBA, needs better bball IQ to win in NBA
   
3   J Culver, potentially a smaller better shooting Evan Turner. Interesting to see how he measures at combine
3   C Reddish, prototypical NBA big wing who for better and worse seems to fit the Gay-Barnes-Green NBA mold
3   D Hunter, lacks the skill set to be a star but is the perfect high end role player for todays NBA. rich mans Luc Mbah a Moute
3   D Garland, limited to a few college games. Needs to develop both as a PG and physically but can score at a high level
   
4   J Hayes, raw high potential big man who was a late bloomer and still has alot of room to develop
4   Bol Bol, would be Tier 2 if not for his injury. A true unicorn with his ability to shoot 3s and protect rim at high level
4   B Clarke, super productive college player who will need to show an improved outside shot. his measurements could drop him to tier 5.   
4   N Little, elite highschool prospect with great physical profile who may be better with NBA spacing. Could also be Stanely Johnson 2.0
4    S Doumbouya, great size and athletic ability for a big wing. Needs to improve outside shot but has a very high ceiling 
4    KZ Okpala, well rounded wing with great size and length (7'2 ws). Projects as a 3-D type who will have to show teams he has NBA 3pt range
4   R  Langford, elite high school player who didnt shoot great in college. May thrive in NBA spacing
4   N Alexander-Walker, well rounded combo guard who should be an easy fit into a teams rotation
4    Coby White, scoring combo guard who I see thriving as a spark plug off the bench. Has great size at 6'5 but that is diminished by short arms
4   K Johnson, good all around wing prospect who has a lot of room to grow and could prove to be one of the better long term players in this class
   
5   R  Hachimura
5   Talen Horton-Tucker
5   Louis King
5   Matisse Thybulle
5   Goga Bitadze
5   Cameron Johnson
   
6   Darius Bazley
6   Dylan Windler
6   Bruno Fernando
6   Grant Williams
6   PJ Washington
6   Admiral Schofield
6   Ty Jerome
6   Deividas Sirvydis
6   Luka Samanic
6   Kevin Porter Jr
6   Chalres Bassey
6   Tyler Hero
   
7   Dedric Lawson
7   Carsen Edwards
7   Daniel Gafford
7   Shamorie Ponds
7   Mfiondu Kabengele
7   Luguentz Dort
7   Jaylen Hands
7   Kris Wilkes
   
8   Payton Prichard
8   Quentin Grimes
8   Iggy Brazdeikis
8   Jalen McDaniels
8   Aric Holman
8   Zach Norvell
8   Chuma Okeke
8   Sagaba Konate
8   Markus Howard
8   J Porter
   
9   Jordan Nwora
9   Eric Paschall
9   Isaiah Roby
9   Ethan Happ
9   Dewan Hernandez
9   Chalres Matthews
9   Jordan Poole
9    Simisola ****tu

[CFAN38]

My post combine updated tiers

Tier   Player
1   Z Williamson
   
2   J Morant
2   RJ Barrett
   
3   J Culver
3   C Reddish
3   D Hunter
3   D Garland
   
4   J Hayes
4   Bol Bol
4   N Little
4   S Doumbouya
4   KZ Okpala
4   R Langford
4   N Alexander-Walker
4   Coby White
4   PJ Washington
4   K Johnson
   
5   B Clarke, down a tier after poor measurements still has potential to be an elite defender but his shot becomes critical   
5   Talen Horton-Tucker
5   Louis King
5   Matisse Thybulle
5   Goga Bitadze
5   Kevin Porter Jr
5   Luka Samanic
   
6   Darius Bazley,
6   Jalen Lecque, has elite physical tools and makes a lot of sense for a team looking to take on a project
6    Dylan Windler
6   Bruno Fernando
6   Grant Williams
6   Deividas Sirvydis
6   Daniel Gafford
6   Mfiondu Kabengele
6   Chalres Bassey
6   Tyler Hero
   
7   Admiral Schofield
7   Ty Jerome
7   Dedric Lawson
7   Carsen Edwards
7   Shamorie Ponds
7   Luguentz Dort
   
8   Jaylen Hands
8   Quentin Grimes
8   Iggy Brazdeikis
8   Chalres Matthews
8   Jalen McDaniels
8   Kris Wilkes
8   Zach Norvell
8   Chuma Okeke
8   Sagaba Konate
8   Isaiah Roby
8   Eric Paschall
8   J Porter

[footey]

Re-reading the scouting reports, and think you are caught up in media hype in rating Barrett in 2nd tier. Dude has too many flaws in his offensive game, starting with bad shooting, too left hand dominant, inability to shoot off screens, etc. etc.

While he may be better than most in your tier 3, that speaks more to how weak/thin the draft is.

Put another way, the vast majority of NBA GM's very likely would take Morant over Barrett, and Morant himself has some acute questions.

This leads me to my conclusion that the Knicks trade package for Davis, spear headed by Barrett, is not going to be competitive with any package we have that includes Tatum. 

[action781]

I think Zion's pro prospects are overrated.  I think a generational talent is a Lebron, Curry, AD, or Durant.  I think Zion Williamson will be more like an Amare Stoudemire (healthy) or Chris Bosh or a stat-stuffing career like Russ Westbrook.  All-star (potentially), but not a perennial top 3 player.  I think Ja Morant is in his tier.  I know this is an unpopular opinion, but maybe even RJ Barrett too.

[PhoSita]

If the Celtics end up using their picks, I'd like them to target guys who were super productive in college and who have already demonstrated an ability to hit outside shots, rebound the ball, and defend their position.  Or who at the very least showed they could do something that's valuable in the NBA at a high level.  Rebounding, protecting the rim, hitting outside shots, running a pick and roll, whatever.

That may not be an option given where they're drafting.  But personally I'd rather take a player on the older side (e.g. 21/22/23) who was super productive and showed some high level skills albeit at a lower level of competition as opposed to drafting raw, super young prospects who got limited minutes on high profile teams.

[nickagneta]

I think Zion is a tier 1

I think Morant is tier 2

I think Barrett is tier 3

And then there is a group of about 12-14 players in group 4.


I am using the tiers to coincide with previous years tiers. I think this type of creating tiers better reflects the overall poor quality of the draft.

[Tr1boy]

I like that you stated

4   Bol Bol, would be Tier 2 if not for his injury. A true unicorn with his ability to shoot 3s and protect rim at high level

Disagree that Hachimura is a tier 5

Paschall is a tier 9??

Tier 9 to me is either only a good NCAA player or a poor man version of Matthew Delladova or a slim or short dude that cant' shoot etc.

Paschall is better than a tier 9

[libermaniac]

If the Celtics end up using their picks, I'd like them to target guys who were super productive in college and who have already demonstrated an ability to hit outside shots, rebound the ball, and defend their position.  Or who at the very least showed they could do something that's valuable in the NBA at a high level.  Rebounding, protecting the rim, hitting outside shots, running a pick and roll, whatever.

That may not be an option given where they're drafting.  But personally I'd rather take a player on the older side (e.g. 21/22/23) who was super productive and showed some high level skills albeit at a lower level of competition as opposed to drafting raw, super young prospects who got limited minutes on high profile teams.

Carsen Edwards says hello.

[PhoSita]

Here are some names that stand out to me from searching stats on basketball-reference.  Please keep in mind I have no real idea who is currently being projected as a NBA prospect or where players are slotted in most mock drafts.  Other than the big names (Zion, Morant, Barrett), of course.  Also, I watch almost no college basketball.


Brandon Clarke (6'8'' 215 LB Forward) - 37.2 PER; 69.9% TS; 17.1% TRB  (Gonzaga)

Anthony Lamb (6'6'' 227 LB Forward) - 33.7 PER; 60.6% TS; 15.1% TRB  (Vermont)

Grant Williams (6'7'' 236 LB Forward) - 30.6 PER; 64.6% TS; 13.3% TRB  (Tennessee)

Mfiondu Kabengele (6'10'' Forward/Center) - 28.9 PER; 59.3% TS; 15.8% TRB  (Florida State)

Daniel Gafford (6'11'' Forward/Center) - 28.7 PER; 65.2% TS; 16.8% TRB  (Arkansas)

Rui Hachimura (6'8'' 230 LB Forward) - 28.6 PER; 63.9% TS; 12.1 TRB (Gonzaga)

Dedric Lawson (6'9'' 235 Guard/Forward) - 28.5 PER; 57.8% TS; 17.4% TRB  (Kansas)

Ethan Happ (6'10'' 237 LB Forward/Center) - 28.2 PER; 52.5% TS; 18.1% TRB  (Wisconsin)

Bruno Fernando (6'10'' 240 LB Forward/Center) - 27.2 PER; 65.3% TS; 20.2% TRB  (Maryland)

Jaxson Hayes (6'11'' 220 LB Forward/Center) - 27.0 PER; 73.9% TS; 12.5% TRB  (Texas)

Chris Silva (6'9'' 234 LB Forward/Center) - 27.0 PER; 60.9% TS; 15.8% TRB  (South Carolina)

Elijah Thomas (6'9'' 245 LB Forward/Center) - 27.0 PER; 62.4% TS; 18.0% TRB  (Clemson)

Shamorie Ponds (6'1'' 175 LB Guard) - 26.9 PER; 57.6% TS; 29.2% AST  (St. John's)

[PhoSita]

If the Celtics end up using their picks, I'd like them to target guys who were super productive in college and who have already demonstrated an ability to hit outside shots, rebound the ball, and defend their position.  Or who at the very least showed they could do something that's valuable in the NBA at a high level.  Rebounding, protecting the rim, hitting outside shots, running a pick and roll, whatever.

That may not be an option given where they're drafting.  But personally I'd rather take a player on the older side (e.g. 21/22/23) who was super productive and showed some high level skills albeit at a lower level of competition as opposed to drafting raw, super young prospects who got limited minutes on high profile teams.

Carsen Edwards says hello.

It's troubling to me that he had an EFG% below 50% and also shot around 44% on two point shots in college.

Looks like a guy who's really good at scoring on a high volume diet of jumpers but not sure what else he does.



My feeling on the draft is I want guys who absolutely dominate college in terms of scoring efficiency, grabbing boards, and generating blocks and steals.  If you dont' stand out in those areas in college, it doesn't seem to bode very well for you standing out in the NBA.  I know there are exceptions every year, but I feel like a lot of the draft "misses" are when teams pay too much attention to how a guy flashes on tape and project those physical traits forward a few years instead of looking at which guys were dominant in the present.

I understand why teams do that, of course.  Lots of guys absolutely kill it in college and fail to ever make a dent in the NBA.  Seems like there are more guys who suck in college and also suck in the NBA though.

[Moranis]

If the Celtics end up using their picks, I'd like them to target guys who were super productive in college and who have already demonstrated an ability to hit outside shots, rebound the ball, and defend their position.  Or who at the very least showed they could do something that's valuable in the NBA at a high level.  Rebounding, protecting the rim, hitting outside shots, running a pick and roll, whatever.

That may not be an option given where they're drafting.  But personally I'd rather take a player on the older side (e.g. 21/22/23) who was super productive and showed some high level skills albeit at a lower level of competition as opposed to drafting raw, super young prospects who got limited minutes on high profile teams.

This is how you end up drafting Olynyk over Giannis.  I just can't get behind that method, especially for a team with 3 1st round picks and that is generally a pretty solid team.  Maybe a team like the Warriors should go the safe route, but I just don't buy that Boston is that type of team that should be taking the higher floor and lower ceiling type player.  Boston needs to hit a homerun in this draft.

[nickagneta]

Here are some names that stand out to me from searching stats on basketball-reference.  Please keep in mind I have no real idea who is currently being projected as a NBA prospect or where players are slotted in most mock drafts.  Other than the big names (Zion, Morant, Barrett), of course.  Also, I watch almost no college basketball.


Brandon Clarke (6'8'' 215 LB Forward) - 37.2 PER; 69.9% TS; 17.1% TRB  (Gonzaga)

Anthony Lamb (6'6'' 227 LB Forward) - 33.7 PER; 60.6% TS; 15.1% TRB  (Vermont)

Grant Williams (6'7'' 236 LB Forward) - 30.6 PER; 64.6% TS; 13.3% TRB  (Tennessee)

Mfiondu Kabengele (6'10'' Forward/Center) - 28.9 PER; 59.3% TS; 15.8% TRB  (Florida State)

Daniel Gafford (6'11'' Forward/Center) - 28.7 PER; 65.2% TS; 16.8% TRB  (Arkansas)

Rui Hachimura (6'8'' 230 LB Forward) - 28.6 PER; 63.9% TS; 12.1 TRB (Gonzaga)

Dedric Lawson (6'9'' 235 Guard/Forward) - 28.5 PER; 57.8% TS; 17.4% TRB  (Kansas)

Ethan Happ (6'10'' 237 LB Forward/Center) - 28.2 PER; 52.5% TS; 18.1% TRB  (Wisconsin)

Bruno Fernando (6'10'' 240 LB Forward/Center) - 27.2 PER; 65.3% TS; 20.2% TRB  (Maryland)

Jaxson Hayes (6'11'' 220 LB Forward/Center) - 27.0 PER; 73.9% TS; 12.5% TRB  (Texas)

Chris Silva (6'9'' 234 LB Forward/Center) - 27.0 PER; 60.9% TS; 15.8% TRB  (South Carolina)

Elijah Thomas (6'9'' 245 LB Forward/Center) - 27.0 PER; 62.4% TS; 18.0% TRB  (Clemson)

Shamorie Ponds (6'1'' 175 LB Guard) - 26.9 PER; 57.6% TS; 29.2% AST  (St. John's)

Judging pro prospects via college stats is a poor way to assess if they have the athleticism, physicality, mentality and skills to make it in the league. You really do need to watch games of prospects. College stats, for the most part, have been proven time and again to not translate to ability to play in the NBA.

And I recommend watching entire games rather than just you tube highlight packages. In a game you can see if they have BBIQ. You can see the elite athleticism. You can see if they have the basics down. You can see if they have most translatable skills, rebounding and shooting. You can see if they have iso skills.

[footey]

If the Celtics end up using their picks, I'd like them to target guys who were super productive in college and who have already demonstrated an ability to hit outside shots, rebound the ball, and defend their position.  Or who at the very least showed they could do something that's valuable in the NBA at a high level.  Rebounding, protecting the rim, hitting outside shots, running a pick and roll, whatever.

That may not be an option given where they're drafting.  But personally I'd rather take a player on the older side (e.g. 21/22/23) who was super productive and showed some high level skills albeit at a lower level of competition as opposed to drafting raw, super young prospects who got limited minutes on high profile teams.

This is how you end up drafting Olynyk over Giannis.  I just can't get behind that method, especially for a team with 3 1st round picks and that is generally a pretty solid team.  Maybe a team like the Warriors should go the safe route, but I just don't buy that Boston is that type of team that should be taking the higher floor and lower ceiling type player.  Boston needs to hit a homerun in this draft.

I agree.  Just need one of them to hit.

[PhoSita]

If the Celtics end up using their picks, I'd like them to target guys who were super productive in college and who have already demonstrated an ability to hit outside shots, rebound the ball, and defend their position.  Or who at the very least showed they could do something that's valuable in the NBA at a high level.  Rebounding, protecting the rim, hitting outside shots, running a pick and roll, whatever.

That may not be an option given where they're drafting.  But personally I'd rather take a player on the older side (e.g. 21/22/23) who was super productive and showed some high level skills albeit at a lower level of competition as opposed to drafting raw, super young prospects who got limited minutes on high profile teams.

This is how you end up drafting Olynyk over Giannis.  I just can't get behind that method, especially for a team with 3 1st round picks and that is generally a pretty solid team.  Maybe a team like the Warriors should go the safe route, but I just don't buy that Boston is that type of team that should be taking the higher floor and lower ceiling type player.  Boston needs to hit a homerun in this draft.

That's fair, but is there a Giannis type prospect in this draft?

I can get behind taking home run swings, but only when the upside is super super high and the available tape on a guy is really murky (as in the case of a teenager playing in a gym in Greece).


Drafting Kelly Olynyks is how you end up with a solid cost controlled supporting cast.

If all you ever did was draft home run boom or bust prospects, you'll end up with a lot of scrubs cluttering your roster.

[footey]

I have previously posted my draft tiers in another thread but have recently updated them and expanded to 60 players. I want to post this for posterity sake.

With that said the following are my tiers as of 4/12/19, I will update this as the draft pool is finalized, medical info comes out on key guys (bol and Porter) and the combine happens. I will try to get a little info/prediction on each player and will come back to update.

Tier   Player
1   Z Williamson, generational talent with superstar potential. A good point guard will really help his early success
   
2   J Morant, all-star potential true lead guard. needs to get stronger and further develop outside shot
2   RJ Barrett, clear all0star potential who will fill a stat sheet in the NBA, needs better bball IQ to win in NBA
   
3   J Culver, potentially a smaller better shooting Evan Turner. Interesting to see how he measures at combine
3   C Reddish, prototypical NBA big wing who for better and worse seems to fit the Gay-Barnes-Green NBA mold
3   D Hunter, lacks the skill set to be a star but is the perfect high end role player for todays NBA. rich mans Luc Mbah a Moute
3   D Garland, limited to a few college games. Needs to develop both as a PG and physically but can score at a high level
   
4   J Hayes, raw high potential big man who was a late bloomer and still has alot of room to develop
4   Bol Bol, would be Tier 2 if not for his injury. A true unicorn with his ability to shoot 3s and protect rim at high level
4   B Clarke, super productive college player who will need to show an improved outside shot. his measurements could drop him to tier 5.   
4   N Little, elite highschool prospect with great physical profile who may be better with NBA spacing. Could also be Stanely Johnson 2.0
4    S Doumbouya, great size and athletic ability for a big wing. Needs to improve outside shot but has a very high ceiling 
4    KZ Okpala, well rounded wing with great size and length (7'2 ws). Projects as a 3-D type who will have to show teams he has NBA 3pt range
4   R  Langford, elite high school player who didnt shoot great in college. May thrive in NBA spacing
4   N Alexander-Walker, well rounded combo guard who should be an easy fit into a teams rotation
4    Coby White, scoring combo guard who I see thriving as a spark plug off the bench. Has great size at 6'5 but that is diminished by short arms
4   K Johnson, good all around wing prospect who has a lot of room to grow and could prove to be one of the better long term players in this class
   
5   R  Hachimura
5   Talen Horton-Tucker
5   Louis King
5   Matisse Thybulle
5   Goga Bitadze
5   Cameron Johnson
   
6   Darius Bazley
6   Dylan Windler
6   Bruno Fernando
6   Grant Williams
6   PJ Washington
6   Admiral Schofield
6   Ty Jerome
6   Deividas Sirvydis
6   Luka Samanic
6   Kevin Porter Jr
6   Chalres Bassey
6   Tyler Hero
   
7   Dedric Lawson
7   Carsen Edwards
7   Daniel Gafford
7   Shamorie Ponds
7   Mfiondu Kabengele
7   Luguentz Dort
7   Jaylen Hands
7   Kris Wilkes
   
8   Payton Prichard
8   Quentin Grimes
8   Iggy Brazdeikis
8   Jalen McDaniels
8   Aric Holman
8   Zach Norvell
8   Chuma Okeke
8   Sagaba Konate
8   Markus Howard
8   J Porter
   
9   Jordan Nwora
9   Eric Paschall
9   Isaiah Roby
9   Ethan Happ
9   Dewan Hernandez
9   Chalres Matthews
9   Jordan Poole
9    Simisola ****tu

Jontay Porter at Tier 8? What gives?  I think but for the knee injury he'd be tier 3 worst case, and given that he doesn't rely on athleticism, has high IQ and nice shooting stroke, should not get knocked down that many levels for it.