Author Topic: is Hayward our secret weapon in the playoffs?  (Read 13053 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: is Hayward our secret weapon in the playoffs?
« Reply #60 on: April 21, 2019, 06:41:53 PM »

Offline greenpride32

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1309
  • Tommy Points: 82
I'm fine with G as long as he is shooting well and playing aggressive.  C's have too may guys who want to take shots (Kryie, Horford, Tatum, Brown, Morris, heck even Smart when he plays) he's not going his share every night for the "stats".

G averaged 12.3 points for the IND series - pretty pedestrian right?  But FG% was 49.2% and 3pt was 37.5%. 

MAR - 55.6% / 32%
FEB -  51.2% / 44.4%

Not going to post the rest but he's been improving all year.

People's opinion flip back and forth on him game to game - he got 20 points today on only 9 FG attempts.

Re: is Hayward our secret weapon in the playoffs?
« Reply #61 on: April 21, 2019, 06:56:59 PM »

Online ozgod

  • JoJo White
  • ****************
  • Posts: 16919
  • Tommy Points: 1372
I'm fine with G as long as he is shooting well and playing aggressive.  C's have too may guys who want to take shots (Kryie, Horford, Tatum, Brown, Morris, heck even Smart when he plays) he's not going his share every night for the "stats".

G averaged 12.3 points for the IND series - pretty pedestrian right?  But FG% was 49.2% and 3pt was 37.5%. 

MAR - 55.6% / 32%
FEB -  51.2% / 44.4%

Not going to post the rest but he's been improving all year.

People's opinion flip back and forth on him game to game - he got 20 points today on only 9 FG attempts.

I've mentioned this with Gordon many times, but if people are expecting him to average 20-25 a game it's not going to happen, not with all the players we have on this team. What I want from him is to play the right way, attack the basket and either finish around the rim or kick the ball out when the defense collapses, and be solid defensively. He got a lot of free shots for Horford and Mook by doing that, he won't be credited with the assist as he kicked it out to someone who then passed it to the open man, but when he makes decisions with the ball in his hands good things tend to happen. Of course there will be the usual people who will say "oh but he only averaged 12 points didn't Wally Szczerbiak or Evan Turner average more than that" but Gordon is an unselfish player who is always looking to make the right play at the expense of his own stat line.

He was 4-12 in game 1, 4-7 in game 2, 2-7 in game 3 and 7-9 tonight but I'm looking at how he plays, not just whether his shots were falling. There's plenty of players on this team who can make shots and each night it might be someone different. But I want him being aggressive and involved and attacking the basket because good things happen for the team when he does.
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D

Re: is Hayward our secret weapon in the playoffs?
« Reply #62 on: April 21, 2019, 07:13:44 PM »

Offline cman88

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5171
  • Tommy Points: 364
Hayward playing this way adds a new dimension to the team. everyone seems to be coming together just at the right time.

Re: is Hayward our secret weapon in the playoffs?
« Reply #63 on: April 21, 2019, 07:24:59 PM »

Offline Ogaju

  • Bill Sharman
  • *******************
  • Posts: 19479
  • Tommy Points: 1871
You cannot overemphasize the importance of GH rounding back to form. It means there is one more player opponents have to worry about. That opens up the slash for him, and open looks for teammates when the opponents collapse into the paint. Sag off and he drains a three.

Re: is Hayward our secret weapon in the playoffs?
« Reply #64 on: April 28, 2019, 03:22:57 PM »

Offline rondofan1255

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4383
  • Tommy Points: 527
Solid game!  :D

Re: is Hayward our secret weapon in the playoffs?
« Reply #65 on: April 28, 2019, 03:52:48 PM »

Online ozgod

  • JoJo White
  • ****************
  • Posts: 16919
  • Tommy Points: 1372
Some will probably criticize Gordon for only scoring 13 points (“Wally Szczerbiak would have scored 20”) but anyone who watched the game will have have seen how influential he was. The game changed when he came in in the first.

He just makes good decisions with the ball and moves well without the ball. Good things tend to happen when he has the ball in his hands, either for him or for other people, particularly when he came off screens to drive to the paint, draw 2 and pass to the open man.

He’s playing with a lot more composure these past few weeks than he has the whole season and we will need him to keep playing at this level.
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D

Re: is Hayward our secret weapon in the playoffs?
« Reply #66 on: April 28, 2019, 03:54:40 PM »

Online Phantom255x

  • Larry Bird
  • *****************************
  • Posts: 29899
  • Tommy Points: 2944
  • On To Banner 18!
Some will probably criticize Gordon for only scoring 13 points (“Wally Szczerbiak would have scored 20”) but anyone who watched the game will have have seen how influential he was. The game changed when he came in in the first.

He just makes good decisions with the ball and moves well without the ball. Good things tend to happen when he has the ball in his hands, either for him or for other people, particularly when he came off screens to drive to the paint, draw 2 and pass to the open man.

He’s playing with a lot more composure these past few weeks than he has the whole season and we will need him to keep playing at this level.

TP. This is spot on.

Remember that guy (forgot his name) who created that "Gordon Hayward double digit scoring thread" and kept trashing Hayward after some games where he played mediocre. Boy he looks like an idiot now  :laugh:

"Tough times never last, but tough people do." - Robert H. Schuller

Re: is Hayward our secret weapon in the playoffs?
« Reply #67 on: May 02, 2019, 01:07:09 PM »

Offline IDreamCeltics

  • NCE
  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1401
  • Tommy Points: 140
-30 in the +/- for old Gordon last game.  The question has to be asked... Is he the problem?

31 minutes, 5 points, 3 assists 1/5 shooting... Is he predictably breaking down given the increased playoff load?

Re: is Hayward our secret weapon in the playoffs?
« Reply #68 on: May 02, 2019, 01:20:06 PM »

Offline nickagneta

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 48120
  • Tommy Points: 8794
  • President of Jaylen Brown Fan Club
-30 in the +/- for old Gordon last game.  The question has to be asked... Is he the problem?

31 minutes, 5 points, 3 assists 1/5 shooting... Is he predictably breaking down given the increased playoff load?
Is he the problem of what? The Celtics went into Milwaukee and did what they had to do. They took a game. They won a game where, seemingly everybody played well and they lost a game where, seemingly everybody played poorly.

Hayward was part of the reason we lost but so was:

Kyrie:  4-18 for 9 points
Tatum: 2-10 for 5 points
Rozier: 2-10 for 5 points
Whole team: Only 17 assists with 13 turnovers
Whole team: horrible perimeter defense giving up tons of uncontested threes
Whole team: gave up 123 points

The Celtics loss game 2 because collectively, as a team, they pretty much all sucked real bad.

Re: is Hayward our secret weapon in the playoffs?
« Reply #69 on: May 02, 2019, 01:23:04 PM »

Online ozgod

  • JoJo White
  • ****************
  • Posts: 16919
  • Tommy Points: 1372
-30 in the +/- for old Gordon last game.  The question has to be asked... Is he the problem?

31 minutes, 5 points, 3 assists 1/5 shooting... Is he predictably breaking down given the increased playoff load?
Is he the problem of what? The Celtics went into Milwaukee and did what they had to do. They took a game. They won a game where, seemingly everybody played well and they lost a game where, seemingly everybody played poorly.

Hayward was part of the reason we lost but so was:

Kyrie:  4-18 for 9 points
Tatum: 2-10 for 5 points
Rozier: 2-10 for 5 points
Whole team: Only 17 assists with 13 turnovers
Whole team: horrible perimeter defense giving up tons of uncontested threes
Whole team: gave up 123 points

The Celtics loss game 2 because collectively, as a team, they pretty much all sucked real bad.

Yep, they sucked as a team and they couldn't stop a 28-2 run that basically ended the game in the 3rd quarter. I can't imagine they will shoot that bad again. They just stopped looking for good shots and settled for any shot. Milwaukee shot terrible in Game 1 and turned it around in Game 2.

Gordon definitely went into his shell a little as the game went on, maybe because Kyrie was pressing too much looking for his shot, he was relegated to the corner for the most part.
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D

Re: is Hayward our secret weapon in the playoffs?
« Reply #70 on: May 02, 2019, 01:25:08 PM »

Offline CptZoogs

  • Jaylen Brown
  • Posts: 585
  • Tommy Points: 79
-30 in the +/- for old Gordon last game.  The question has to be asked... Is he the problem?

31 minutes, 5 points, 3 assists 1/5 shooting... Is he predictably breaking down given the increased playoff load?
Is he the problem of what? The Celtics went into Milwaukee and did what they had to do. They took a game. They won a game where, seemingly everybody played well and they lost a game where, seemingly everybody played poorly.

Hayward was part of the reason we lost but so was:

Kyrie:  4-18 for 9 points
Tatum: 2-10 for 5 points
Rozier: 2-10 for 5 points
Whole team: Only 17 assists with 13 turnovers
Whole team: horrible perimeter defense giving up tons of uncontested threes
Whole team: gave up 123 points

The Celtics loss game 2 because collectively, as a team, they pretty much all sucked real bad.

Maybe we should stop taking the bait.  This guy only shows up when Gordon has a subpar game.  Notice how they haven't been posting much lately... Also, it's worth noting that there were maybe 2-3 celts that actually showed up on Tuesday.  These things happen.  It was a game the Bucks desperately needed.  I have no doubts we will have a better showing on Friday.

Re: is Hayward our secret weapon in the playoffs?
« Reply #71 on: May 02, 2019, 01:34:05 PM »

Offline Big333223

  • NCE
  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7508
  • Tommy Points: 742
-30 in the +/- for old Gordon last game.  The question has to be asked... Is he the problem?

31 minutes, 5 points, 3 assists 1/5 shooting... Is he predictably breaking down given the increased playoff load?
Is he the problem of what? The Celtics went into Milwaukee and did what they had to do. They took a game. They won a game where, seemingly everybody played well and they lost a game where, seemingly everybody played poorly.

Hayward was part of the reason we lost but so was:

Kyrie:  4-18 for 9 points
Tatum: 2-10 for 5 points
Rozier: 2-10 for 5 points
Whole team: Only 17 assists with 13 turnovers
Whole team: horrible perimeter defense giving up tons of uncontested threes
Whole team: gave up 123 points

The Celtics loss game 2 because collectively, as a team, they pretty much all sucked real bad.

Yep, they sucked as a team and they couldn't stop a 28-2 run that basically ended the game in the 3rd quarter. I can't imagine they will shoot that bad again. They just stopped looking for good shots and settled for any shot. Milwaukee shot terrible in Game 1 and turned it around in Game 2.

Gordon definitely went into his shell a little as the game went on, maybe because Kyrie was pressing too much looking for his shot, he was relegated to the corner for the most part.

Yeah, the Celtics lost as a team. It's not on Hayward, alone.

Hayward sucking is on Hayward, though. This is why I always push back every time he has 3 good games in a row and someone proclaims he's Utah Gordon again. He might never be that way and if he ever is, it won't be until next year.
1957, 1959, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1965, 1966, 1968, 1969, 1974, 1976, 1981, 1984, 1986, 2008

Re: is Hayward our secret weapon in the playoffs?
« Reply #72 on: May 02, 2019, 02:59:09 PM »

Online ozgod

  • JoJo White
  • ****************
  • Posts: 16919
  • Tommy Points: 1372
-30 in the +/- for old Gordon last game.  The question has to be asked... Is he the problem?

31 minutes, 5 points, 3 assists 1/5 shooting... Is he predictably breaking down given the increased playoff load?
Is he the problem of what? The Celtics went into Milwaukee and did what they had to do. They took a game. They won a game where, seemingly everybody played well and they lost a game where, seemingly everybody played poorly.

Hayward was part of the reason we lost but so was:

Kyrie:  4-18 for 9 points
Tatum: 2-10 for 5 points
Rozier: 2-10 for 5 points
Whole team: Only 17 assists with 13 turnovers
Whole team: horrible perimeter defense giving up tons of uncontested threes
Whole team: gave up 123 points

The Celtics loss game 2 because collectively, as a team, they pretty much all sucked real bad.

Yep, they sucked as a team and they couldn't stop a 28-2 run that basically ended the game in the 3rd quarter. I can't imagine they will shoot that bad again. They just stopped looking for good shots and settled for any shot. Milwaukee shot terrible in Game 1 and turned it around in Game 2.

Gordon definitely went into his shell a little as the game went on, maybe because Kyrie was pressing too much looking for his shot, he was relegated to the corner for the most part.

Yeah, the Celtics lost as a team. It's not on Hayward, alone.

Hayward sucking is on Hayward, though. This is why I always push back every time he has 3 good games in a row and someone proclaims he's Utah Gordon again. He might never be that way and if he ever is, it won't be until next year.

It's also why I'm careful to make a determination that Gordon is back on the basis of how many points he scores. Obviously the point of basketball is to score points, but with the way our team is I'm more interested in how he plays - is he being aggressive? Is he looking to attack the paint? Is he trying to get the best shot for the team, not just his shot? Is he trying to draw contact? Is he connected and talkative on defense?

For the most part since the All Star break he's been doing all that, whether he scores 10 points or 20 or 30. The other night though he didn't attack the paint much:



His usage rate was below 10%, meaning 1 in 10 plays were run for him when he was on the floor. 10%? He had a lower usage rate than anyone else on the team.



And look at his touches, he had 33 touches which is less than Mook, Jaylen or Jayson who played less minutes than he did (Rozier had more as well but as a point guard you expect him to have more). We need more than 33 touches from Gordon to beat the Bucks.



Compare this with Game 1 where he had 45 touches, 3rd most on the team:



This is always a difficult one to interpret, you need to watch the games and look at how the team is playing. Were they passing the ball to Gordon more in Game 1? Was he demanding it? Was Kyrie feeling more pressure to shoot the ball because he wasn't shooting well? Kyrie's usage rate was 28% which is around where it's been all season for him though. Gordon played more minutes in Game 2, did his minutes overlap with Kyrie and Terry too much?

I suspect the answer is all of the above. I'm sure when they look at film they will figure it out. But whatever it is, they need to get him more involved so that he can influence the game better.
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D

Re: is Hayward our secret weapon in the playoffs?
« Reply #73 on: May 02, 2019, 03:16:15 PM »

Offline CptZoogs

  • Jaylen Brown
  • Posts: 585
  • Tommy Points: 79
I think Tuesday was the first time I saw Hayward actively calling for the ball (only to not get it).  Ball movement was an issue for sure on Tuesday.

Re: is Hayward our secret weapon in the playoffs?
« Reply #74 on: May 02, 2019, 03:50:21 PM »

Online SHAQATTACK

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 36863
  • Tommy Points: 2968
if he is ?

then we need to pull him out and let him open a can on them