Author Topic: Semi and Williams  (Read 4031 times)

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Semi and Williams
« on: December 05, 2019, 08:39:48 AM »

Offline rollie mass

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Just as instrumental as Semi, I thought Robert Williams brought energy to  Celtics with blocking shots rebounding even his diving for a loose ball..
He has come a long way from his rookie season and is just starting to play the game versus think the game .He enjoys passing and that error the other night was him just playing ball .He is starting to shoot but tentatively and that also is a good sign.

I have to watch replays late at night, early morning on League Pass and usually need a second watch so
I'm sure Williams made some blatant mistakes but he sure looked like he aggressively belonged from my first  replay watch.

Re: Semi and Williams
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2019, 10:17:06 AM »

Offline ederson

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Against the heat he blocked 1 shot (as many as kemba) and so far he blocks less (marginally) than in his rookie season

Re: Semi and Williams
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2019, 11:02:45 AM »

Offline footey

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Semi has really gotten better with more reps.  G Williams started the 1st half, but Semi was clearly defending better, which is why Brad started him in the 2nd half.  And he has gotten confident on the corner 3, which further distinguishes him from G W right now.  Not bashing GW, just pointing out that Semi should be getting more minutes than him right now.

R Williams was critical to our success in 2nd half. Theis was playing great but got gassed. RW stepped in and kept the energy level very high.  He was careful not to repeat his stupid turnovers from the prior game that got him yanked.

He had two blocks, by the way, one was not recorded for some reason. 

Re: Semi and Williams
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2019, 11:29:36 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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Semi has really gotten better with more reps.  G Williams started the 1st half, but Semi was clearly defending better, which is why Brad started him in the 2nd half.  And he has gotten confident on the corner 3, which further distinguishes him from G W right now.  Not bashing GW, just pointing out that Semi should be getting more minutes than him right now.

R Williams was critical to our success in 2nd half. Theis was playing great but got gassed. RW stepped in and kept the energy level very high.  He was careful not to repeat his stupid turnovers from the prior game that got him yanked.

He had two blocks, by the way, one was not recorded for some reason.
I agree about how Semi played last night. Thing is, I think he has been clearly better on both ends of the floor than Grant and deserves more minutes than Grant. Semi has gotten much better than he was his first two years, showing a decent three point shot, better ball handling and driving ability while playing better defense.

Timelord has only been consistent in his rather extreme inconsistency. There are times he locks in with his 5 man grouping and plays shut down defense, then others where he is just all over the place and jumping around chasing blocks letting his man free to get the offensive put back. I do feel though that with another leap forward next off-season, he will eventually claim the starting job next season sometime

Re: Semi and Williams
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2019, 12:06:26 PM »

Offline rollie mass

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Semi has really gotten better with more reps.  G Williams started the 1st half, but Semi was clearly defending better, which is why Brad started him in the 2nd half.  And he has gotten confident on the corner 3, which further distinguishes him from G W right now.  Not bashing GW, just pointing out that Semi should be getting more minutes than him right now.

R Williams was critical to our success in 2nd half. Theis was playing great but got gassed. RW stepped in and kept the energy level very high.  He was careful not to repeat his stupid turnovers from the prior game that got him yanked.

He had two blocks, by the way, one was not recorded for some reason.
Thought there was more than one---TP for that   Maybe they recorded it as a deflection,
« Last Edit: December 05, 2019, 03:07:18 PM by rollie mass »

Re: Semi and Williams
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2019, 03:24:12 PM »

Offline Hoopvortex

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Quote from: Brad Stevens on Semi Ojeleye

I just think he’s really improved. I feel really good when he shoots the ball. He’s worked really hard on his shot, nobody spends more time - we’ve talked about that.

He made a huge shot tonight when they cut it to 5 and he hit the 3 [on the] out of bounds [play] on a nice pass from Brad

He’s in the right spot, he’s where he’s supposed to be.

He plays with good physicality.

He got a number of deflections in the paint just by being in the right position.

I agree with you he was really good.

I don’t think it’s a coincidence that those 24 minutes were our best 24 minutes defensively tonight.

'I was proud of Marcus Smart. He did a great job of keeping us together. He might not get credit for this game, but the pace that he played at, and his playcalling, some of the plays that he called were great. We obviously have to rely on him, so I’m definitely looking forward to Marcus leading this team in that role.' - Jaylen Brown, January 2021

Re: Semi and Williams
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2019, 03:38:47 PM »

Offline Hoopvortex

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Semi has really gotten better with more reps.  G Williams started the 1st half, but Semi was clearly defending better, which is why Brad started him in the 2nd half.  And he has gotten confident on the corner 3, which further distinguishes him from G W right now.  Not bashing GW, just pointing out that Semi should be getting more minutes than him right now.

I agree about how Semi played last night. Thing is, I think he has been clearly better on both ends of the floor than Grant and deserves more minutes than Grant. Semi has gotten much better than he was his first two years, showing a decent three point shot, better ball handling and driving ability while playing better defense.

There are a lot of good reasons to compare the two (almost identical weight and height, not great length, play physical defense, slow developing shooting...). But that hasn't stopped the coaching staff from putting them in the game together, and for extended stretches - in the last game with the Knicks, they played almost the entire fourth quarter together. Some of those minutes were with Kanter as well; Semi has the quickness to guard wings. When Kanter went out, Grant was the center, Semi 4 Tatum 3 Brown 2 and Kemba. Once Grant gets his outside shot falling - I know that he has plenty of doubters on here - that ultra-small lineup will be both quick and tough.
'I was proud of Marcus Smart. He did a great job of keeping us together. He might not get credit for this game, but the pace that he played at, and his playcalling, some of the plays that he called were great. We obviously have to rely on him, so I’m definitely looking forward to Marcus leading this team in that role.' - Jaylen Brown, January 2021

Re: Semi and Williams
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2019, 06:23:32 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
There are a lot of good reasons to compare the two (almost identical weight and height, not great length, play physical defense, slow developing shooting...

Just stop Semi can jump.

Semi Ojeleye of SMU posted an impressive 40.5 Max Vertical Leap

There are guys on this blog who outjump Grant Williams quite easily.  31.5"

Heck my no step was better than that 30 years ago

One is a superb athlete is what this means and one is well, an average to sub par NBA athlete in terms of jumping with a good brain.  NBA average vertical is like 28", Grants is 26".

Re: Semi and Williams
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2019, 07:23:49 PM »

Offline Hoopvortex

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Quote
There are a lot of good reasons to compare the two (almost identical weight and height, not great length, play physical defense, slow developing shooting...

Just stop Semi can jump.

Semi Ojeleye of SMU posted an impressive 40.5 Max Vertical Leap

There are guys on this blog who outjump Grant Williams quite easily.  31.5"

Heck my no step was better than that 30 years ago
One is a superb athlete is what this means and one is well, an average to sub par NBA athlete in terms of jumping with a good brain.  NBA average vertical is like 28", Grants is 26".

I did not say they were identical.

This isn’t the first thread where multiple posters are comparing them. There’s some justice in that, partly for the reasons that I mentioned.

But in fact my point was that they’re different enough that they’ve been on the floor together for a fair amount already this season. Brad has been doing this since pre-season. In the New York game, they were on the floor together for almost the whole fourth quarter.

By the way let’s not get carried away by Semi’s 3-pt%. Sample size is small enough that one fewer make and he’d be at .333 - and one more make and he’d be at .407, a huge difference. But .370 is pretty nice, and it’s not meaningless.
'I was proud of Marcus Smart. He did a great job of keeping us together. He might not get credit for this game, but the pace that he played at, and his playcalling, some of the plays that he called were great. We obviously have to rely on him, so I’m definitely looking forward to Marcus leading this team in that role.' - Jaylen Brown, January 2021

Re: Semi and Williams
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2019, 07:40:32 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
This isn’t the first thread where multiple posters are comparing them. There’s some justice in that, partly for the reasons that I mentioned.

Only shallow and superficial knowledge of the two would lead to this kind of comparison.   They are both black, muscular and the same height, get my point?

Re: Semi and Williams
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2019, 12:21:38 PM »

Offline Hoopvortex

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Quote
This isn’t the first thread where multiple posters are comparing them. There’s some justice in that, partly for the reasons that I mentioned.

Only shallow and superficial knowledge of the two would lead to this kind of comparison.   They are both black, muscular and the same height, get my point?

It’s not likely that Brad Stevens is asking Grant and Semi to guard the same players (as they did Wednesday) because they’re both black!

But their similar size has a lot to do with it, as does the fact that they can both switch up or down. Size matters! You mention height, but they’re also the same weight, and both lack length, which I mentioned above  - and those things affect which opponents they’re asked to guard. And there’s nothing ‘shallow and superficial’ about pointing out those things.

 Nor is pointing out that they’ve both struggled to shoot a good percentage from 3. Fans might overemphasize shooting %s, but does anyone doubt that reliably hitting 3’s helps a player to get on the court, or that length (which both Grant and Semi lack) is an asset for a defender?

Speaking of getting on the court, another similarity is that they’ve played almost the same amount of minutes.

You mention Semi’s jumping ability vs. Grant’s. Good point! Not ‘shallow and superficial’!  I’d add that Ojeleye is faster and changes ends quicker (one reason he’s been a much better finisher than Williams). Williams moves the ball better, but on the downside he’s thrown a ton of bad passes. By contrast Ojeleye is conservative with the ball, maybe to a fault.

From the beginning of his pro career, Semi has been outstanding at staying in front of his man. After year one, Brad wanted him to get more in his man’s airspace, which he’s definitely improved; on the other hand Grant is already pretty good at that as a rookie.

We could go on about differences and similarities, whether shallow or deep, whether superficial or profound; but the reason I posted in this thread is to point out something different - that Stevens has frequently played them together, and for long stretches. Now that is something really interesting! - because those two are both complementary players; they have the two lowest usage rates on the team.

As much to the point, they’ve both also been really poor defensive rebounders (11% and 10.9%, another striking similarity in their games), so it stands out that they’d be put on the floor together as the two bigs, or whatever we want to call them. Really interesting that the coaching staff would pair them!
'I was proud of Marcus Smart. He did a great job of keeping us together. He might not get credit for this game, but the pace that he played at, and his playcalling, some of the plays that he called were great. We obviously have to rely on him, so I’m definitely looking forward to Marcus leading this team in that role.' - Jaylen Brown, January 2021

Re: Semi and Williams
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2019, 12:24:05 PM »

Offline Monkhouse

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Quote
This isn’t the first thread where multiple posters are comparing them. There’s some justice in that, partly for the reasons that I mentioned.

Only shallow and superficial knowledge of the two would lead to this kind of comparison.   They are both black, muscular and the same height, get my point?

Whoa, relax lol...

It isn't like Hoopvortex meant to insult anyone.

I understand similar builds, but yeah sure they are both slightly different players, but they also fit the mold of undersized big man that can be relied on a switch heavy offense.
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Re: Semi and Williams
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2019, 03:24:45 PM »

Offline rollie mass

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]Semi tied for 5th with 40.5 vertical    Combine results 55 players
Tied for 8th in sprint
And was 3rd in lane agility.
Semi may not have length but it is hard to find that elite lateral and vertical in a player that strong.
Semi is only now getting comfortable on court. Last two years shot about 32% from three 
 2019-20  Semi is shooting 37%.
 I''m not sure but 2nd half of last year shot the three at a decent average but it was weighed down by early season slump
« Last Edit: December 06, 2019, 03:49:02 PM by rollie mass »

Re: Semi and Williams
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2019, 03:46:49 PM »

Offline Hoopvortex

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]Semi tied for 5th with 40.5 vertical
Tied for 8th in sprint
And was 3rd in lane agility.
Semi may not have length but it is hard to that elite lateral and vertical in a player that strong.
Semi is only now getting comfortable on court. Last two years shot about 32% from three 
 2019-20  Semi is shooting 37%.
 I''m not sure but 2nd half of last year shot the three at a decent average but it was weighed down by early season slump

Good points all. Let’s hope that that 37% is sustainable; it would add a lot to his value. He’s also shooting .700 in the restricted area, which is golden.

The defensive rebounding in the Miami game was a pleasant surprise, (emphasis on the surprise!), but I’m not holding my breath. He’s been paired with Kanter a lot, which makes up for some of both of their deficiencies, including Semi’s subpar rebounding.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2019, 03:53:38 PM by Hoopvortex »
'I was proud of Marcus Smart. He did a great job of keeping us together. He might not get credit for this game, but the pace that he played at, and his playcalling, some of the plays that he called were great. We obviously have to rely on him, so I’m definitely looking forward to Marcus leading this team in that role.' - Jaylen Brown, January 2021

Re: Semi and Williams
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2019, 04:02:06 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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]Semi tied for 5th with 40.5 vertical
Tied for 8th in sprint
And was 3rd in lane agility.
Semi may not have length but it is hard to that elite lateral and vertical in a player that strong.
Semi is only now getting comfortable on court. Last two years shot about 32% from three 
 2019-20  Semi is shooting 37%.
 I''m not sure but 2nd half of last year shot the three at a decent average but it was weighed down by early season slump
Semi shot 39.4% (11-28) from three over his last 24 games last year, so TP for kinda getting it right rollie. And yes, that did make up for a terrible start to the season as Semi shot just 27.9%(17-61) over his first 32 games of the season.

Now take those last 24 games, add them to his 6 playoff games, where Semi was 3-5 from three, and to his 20 games this year, where Semi is 10-27 from three and over Semi's 50 straight games played, he is shooting 40% from three(24-60).

That is very encouraging!