Drafting Mistake

[Brickowski]

NO question I'd rather have LMAM right now - but it was rather difficult to forecast this coming out of college.

Well yes, 12 or 13 teams made the same mistake.  But a mistake is a mistake is a mistake. GMs get paid good money not to make these kinds of mistakes.

[KungPoweChicken]

I don't understand why the success he is having is such a shock. He has the ideal body type for the small forward position. He is also already twenty-two years old, and by all accounts he's a hard working guy. To put it simply, He's the kind of long wing the Celtics desperately needed.

[cordobes]

Meh... for months I was the only one touting this guy, nice to see people joining the bandwagon. I've been a fan of LRMAM since his freshman year in college and I'd absolutely have drafted him if I were a GM picking in the late 1st, early 2nd, but even I'm surprised how good he's been. Terrific defender and his offensive game - horrific by the start of the season - as been progressing steadily.

if JR was playing big minutes for Milwaukee he may be doing similar things for the Bucks

How do you know that? Is that even reasonable to expect? I don't think so. If JR Giddens was as good as LRMAM, I guarantee he'd be getting minutes in the C's.

I actually think that if he made it a goal of his, that he could make an All-Defensive team.

Who? JR Giddens?

Whatever happened to DeVon Hardin?

He's playing in Greece. He isn't NBA material.

JR was a good defensive player in college, and if this lack of playing time is doing anything its making him work on EVERY part of his game, he was the mountain west MVP, led the league in rebounds as a guard....he's not just some louch, hell if he didn't get into all the crap at Kansas he would have probably been drafted in 07 at an earlier spot.

Well, I liked Giddens in the moments I saw him, but what's your point? That LRMAM wouldn't see minutes if he was in Boston?

NO question I'd rather have LMAM right now - but it was rather difficult to forecast this coming out of college.

Well yes, 12 or 13 teams made the same mistake.  But a mistake is a mistake is a mistake. GMs get paid good money not to make these kinds of mistakes.

Drafting is not a science. They get paid money to minimize the number of mistakes they make.

[Chris]

The teams that picked from #22 through #36 in last year's draft (including the Celtics) made a big miskake in not selecting Luc Mbah a Moute, who, with the possible exception of George Hill, is way better than any of other other players picked at those spots.  For starters, he defends.

I think it is way too early to make this assessment.  I agree that he was a nice pick-up, but lets not get carried away.  He is  playing for a very mediocre team, and probably would not be seeing any time on many of the teams that picked in that range, since his offensive game is VERY lacking.

I have a feeling that in 2-3 years, there will be at least 7 or 8 players from that range that are significantly better than him. 

Just to list a few, I think Lee, Batum, Hill (who you mentioned), Arthur, and Chalmers are already better than Luc right now.  And most of the other guys (other than White who has been injured all year, and Dorsey who shouldn't have even been drafted IMO) are high upside guys who you need to let mature more before making a determination about them.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Considering that since Doc and Ainge have had nothing but high praises and good things to say about Walker, and seeing how little time he gets on the floor, it stands to reason that many of the rookies having success in other places might've not been seeing much playing time here.  

For one, considering our roster situation, I think without a doubt just about any rookie we would've selected would've started the season in the NBDL... and I don't think Doc is fond of playing inexperienced rookies who haven't been practicing with the main team.

Would Chalmers and LRMAM be an exception? Maybe. But even if I thought that Scal was awful in the preseason, I don't think LRMAM would've made the roster over him.

[Cman]

NO question I'd rather have LMAM right now - but it was rather difficult to forecast this coming out of college.

Well yes, 12 or 13 teams made the same mistake.  But a mistake is a mistake is a mistake. GMs get paid good money not to make these kinds of mistakes.

If they were judged on outcomes *as of today*, then yes, you are right, those other teams made a mistake.  Golden State shouldn't have selected Anthony Randolph, for example, they should have selected LRMAM, because LRMAM is having a better rookie year. 

The thing is, we all know we need to wait a couple years before saying a draft decision was a mistake or not.  Marc Gasol is a good case in point.  He didn't play at all last year, and if you were to pose the question last year: did New Jersey make a mistake drafting Sean Williams (#17) instead of Marc Gasol (#48), people would have laughed.  This year, not so much laughter.

[EJPLAYA]

Considering we are the defending NBA champions I would give DA a little slack. There are numerous examples of players, especially late in the first round or second, that have turned into great players everyone wishes they would have drafted over another player. That doesn't mean that it was some huge mistake at the time. It means that someone turned out better than anyone had thought. If it was such a huge "mistake" then none of the other teams would have made the same one and would have snatched them up with the very next pick. While LMAM looked nice against us, it's way too early to know whether or not he will be able to continue to develop. If you look at his game log he is very up and down which is to be expected. He should be glad that he is on the team he is that allows him to get the minutes even when he isn't playing real well.

[cordobes]

I agree with the general feeling it's a stretch to call this a mistake, but I also tend to believe that people who are saying LRMAM wouldn't see minutes here or in any other NBA team don't see a lot of Bucks games. "Looking at game logs" is not a good way of assessing this kind of player. Excellent defenders - especially guys who can defend 4 positions - always find playing time in the NBA, even when their offensive game is worse than Luc's.

[Chris]

I agree with the general feeling it's a stretch to call this a mistake, but I also tend to believe that people who are saying LRMAM wouldn't see minutes here or in any other NBA team don't see a lot of Bucks games. "Looking at game logs" is not a good way of assessing this kind of player. Excellent defenders - especially guys who can defend 4 positions - always find playing time in the NBA, even when their offensive game is worse than Luc's.

You're right, it is a stretch to say he wouldn't see minutes here or on other NBA teams (In fact, there are some teams where he may see even more minutes).  But I don't think its a stretch to say he wouldn't see anywhere near as many minutes on the C's (as well as some other contenders) as he has been seeing in Milwaukee.  He simply does not have the offensive game to be any more than an 11th man who is used for specific defensive matchups on a team like the C's.  I think he would be in a similar situation to the one Bill Walker is in (who isn't a bad defender himself, and has a much more developed offensive game at this point).

I don't think he is Orien Greene, who never should have been an NBA player, but was seeing time for the terrible C's.  But he also is not someone you can plug into any team, and he would be getting minutes at this point in his career.

And at the same time, I would argue if you put Walker, Pruitt, and maybe even Giddens on a lot of teams in the league, and they would likely be playing, and productive...just maybe not winning games.

[EJPLAYA]

I agree with the general feeling it's a stretch to call this a mistake, but I also tend to believe that people who are saying LRMAM wouldn't see minutes here or in any other NBA team don't see a lot of Bucks games. "Looking at game logs" is not a good way of assessing this kind of player. Excellent defenders - especially guys who can defend 4 positions - always find playing time in the NBA, even when their offensive game is worse than Luc's.

My comment about the game logs was to point out that he hasn't been the same offensive spark as he was in yesterdays game all season long and has had his share of poor offensive outings. He appears to be a solid defender, but I think giving him the "excellent" label is a little early in his career. I have a funny feeling that if Giddens was on a bad team that he would be getting the same opportunity because supposedly his defense is not bad either. 

[cordobes]

I agree with the general feeling it's a stretch to call this a mistake, but I also tend to believe that people who are saying LRMAM wouldn't see minutes here or in any other NBA team don't see a lot of Bucks games. "Looking at game logs" is not a good way of assessing this kind of player. Excellent defenders - especially guys who can defend 4 positions - always find playing time in the NBA, even when their offensive game is worse than Luc's.

You're right, it is a stretch to say he wouldn't see minutes here or on other NBA teams (In fact, there are some teams where he may see even more minutes).  But I don't think its a stretch to say he wouldn't see anywhere near as many minutes on the C's (as well as some other contenders) as he has been seeing in Milwaukee.  He simply does not have the offensive game to be any more than an 11th man who is used for specific defensive matchups on a team like the C's.  I think he would be in a similar situation to the one Bill Walker is in (who isn't a bad defender himself, and has a much more developed offensive game at this point).

I don't think he is Orien Greene, who never should have been an NBA player, but was seeing time for the terrible C's.  But he also is not someone you can plug into any team, and he would be getting minutes at this point in his career.

And at the same time, I would argue if you put Walker, Pruitt, and maybe even Giddens on a lot of teams in the league, and they would likely be playing, and productive...just maybe not winning games.

11th man? I don't think so.

The Bucks, when healthy, were far from being mediocre. I think they were arguably the 4th best team in the East and easily a playoff one.

It's not like he beat some D-Leaguers to get his minutes. I mean, he was starting and had guys like Villanueva, Charlie Bell, Elson or Malik Allen sitting on the bench.

Of course, he had some off-games and the injuries on other players impacted his minutes as they needed more fire-power on the floor, but he's still getting serious minutes - and starting - on a middle-of-the-pack team.

And he's scoring 7 points per game with a very acceptable 53 TS% and a very small usage rate while not turning over the ball, it's not like he's Quinton Ross or some player of that kind. Offensively challenged compared to whom?

[cordobes]

He appears to be a solid defender, but I think giving him the "excellent" label is a little early in his career.

Okay, but I do and I don't have the habit of throwing labels and adjectives like "excellent" with ease. He's the best defensive player in the Bucks if you exclude Bogut. He's the better one defending every position on the floor except center (because of Bogut). And players like Bell, Jefferson or Bogans (or even Allen) aren't exactly defensive hindrances.

[EJPLAYA]

He appears to be a solid defender, but I think giving him the "excellent" label is a little early in his career.

Okay, but I do and I don't have the habit of throwing labels and adjectives like "excellent" with ease. He's the best defensive player in the Bucks if you exclude Bogut. He's the better one defending every position on the floor except center (because of Bogut). And players like Bell, Jefferson or Bogans (or even Allen) aren't exactly defensive hindrances.

It sounds like you have watched a lot of Milwaukee Bucks games this year, so you probably would know better than I. I have a hard enough time watching the C's each game, so the only information that I get on a player typically is what I see when they play us. I know there are a lot of guys on here that see one game against us and then use the stat line to confirm their opinion of a guy, yet make it seem like they have seen every game they have played. I know you seem to watch a lot more other teams games than most. I think we are pretty much in agreement though. Nice player who is better than all the experts thought he would be at this stage. Otherwise he would have been gone before we had a chance to take him.

[ThreadCrasher]

NO question I'd rather have LMAM right now - but it was rather difficult to forecast this coming out of college.

Well yes, 12 or 13 teams made the same mistake.  But a mistake is a mistake is a mistake. GMs get paid good money not to make these kinds of mistakes.

Somethings in life are not meant to be done at 100%.  Larry Bird made lots of mistakes shooting the ball, about half the time, right?  And the winner of the batting title in baseball makes a mistake 2/3 of the time.  They should be ridiculed too, right?

Considering you need atleast 3 years to make a real judgment, the following picks were rather solid:

2006: Rondo @ #21 and Leon Powe at #49
2005: Ryan Gomes @ #50
2004: Al Jefferson @ #15; Delonte West @ #24; Tony Allen @ #25
2003: Kendrick Perkins @ #27

Even factoring in a couple of near misses in Gerald Green and Marcus Banks, Ainges drafting record is solid, I would even say it was impressive.  And based on that track record, I am confident that Giddens or Walker will make an impact.  And Pruitt has a very good chance of becoming a solid back-up PG and BBD a solid back up PF, which would be a great pick ups in the 2nd round (#31 and #35 respectively). 

Your just being silly with this line of reasoning.

[cdif911]

Fire Ainge now. He clearly doesn't know how to put a championship team together