1986 Celts overall rating 100. 03 Celts?

[KG Living Legend]

 So far no title I'll say 92. Chemistry is getting good.

Porzingis vs Parish.  Advantage Kristaps.  Three point shooting matters. 3 level scorers. Parish a much better rebounder. 

Tatum vs Mchale Advantage Tatum.  Absolutely loved McHale.  Have to give the all around Advantage to Tatum,  at least in today's NBA. 

Brown vs Bird. Advantage Brown,  First 300 million dollar player.  Need I say more? Okay I'm kidding.  Bird in a landslide Bird overall rating 99 Brown 89

White vs Ainge. With all do respect Danny.  White is my favorite player in the leauge currently.  Advantage Derrick.

Holiday vs DJ. Advantage DJ. He drove me nuts, but he was a proven champion.  Maybe a better defender than Holiday believe it or not.

 Overall though.  It's the 86 team. It's the 99 Basketball IQ that make them unbeatable.  And this year's team hasn't proved that yet.

[Surferdad]

Of course, it's the 86 team. There were arguably the greatest NBA team of all time. Besides the starters, they had 3 bench players who were better than current Celtics bench: Bill Walton, Jerry Sichting and Scott Wedman. Horford, Pritchard, Hauser is not even close.

[Neurotic Guy]

Of course, it's the 86 team. There were arguably the greatest NBA team of all time. Besides the starters, they had 3 bench players who were better than current Celtics bench: Bill Walton, Jerry Sichting and Scott Wedman. Horford, Pritchard, Hauser is not even close.

There would be a legit argument for PP over Sichting (I’d take PP without a doubt), and credible argument for Hauser over Wedman (probably would go Wedman for that year). Walton, despite Horford being very good off the bench, makes  the ‘86 team unbeatable.

[Kernewek]

I think the modern team stands a good chance of taking the series under the modern rule set, but the 86 team is better overall - a shocking take, I know.

[hpantazo]

Of course, it's the 86 team. There were arguably the greatest NBA team of all time. Besides the starters, they had 3 bench players who were better than current Celtics bench: Bill Walton, Jerry Sichting and Scott Wedman. Horford, Pritchard, Hauser is not even close.

People forget how great the 86 team really was. They would also flourish in the new NBA rules. Bird would have been even more dominant in the modern NBA. He did what he did when hand checking and physical defense was the standard. McHale absolutely had 3 point range and would have used it much more in the modern NBA. Parish had range as well and his outlet passes were a major weapon. DJ was basically a better , smarter version of Marcus Smart.

[Roy H.]

In a head-to-head, I'm not so sure that I take KP/Tatum over Parish/McHale.

[tazzmaniac]

In a head-to-head, I'm not so sure that I take KP/Tatum over Parish/McHale.

I definitely wouldn't but I wouldn't take them compared individually either.  McHale could defend Tatum.  Tatum would have no chance defending McHale.  The current team would probably be forced to go big with Al at PF. 

[Surferdad]

Of course, it's the 86 team. There were arguably the greatest NBA team of all time. Besides the starters, they had 3 bench players who were better than current Celtics bench: Bill Walton, Jerry Sichting and Scott Wedman. Horford, Pritchard, Hauser is not even close.

There would be a legit argument for PP over Sichting (I’d take PP without a doubt), and credible argument for Hauser over Wedman (probably would go Wedman for that year). Walton, despite Horford being very good off the bench, makes  the ‘86 team unbeatable.

Yup, those are the correct man-for-man comparisons of the key bench players and I agree that Walton is light-years ahead of Horford and that's the biggest difference between the benches.

[Neurotic Guy]

In a head-to-head, I'm not so sure that I take KP/Tatum over Parish/McHale.

I think it’s a tough call.  I see Parish and McHale as so big, strong and versatile. Did just about everything well.  But JT and KP are not slouches by comparison.  KP is a more skilled offensive player than Parish (loved his teardrop and was tough inside). I’m pretty impressed with what I’ve seen KP do defending the rim. Before the season I would have gone Parrish for the D, but right now I might actually go the other way.   

As far as JT and McHale go, McHale has no peer near the hoop. But, JT has added moves inside and can drive the lane much better than McHale. Tatum also better mid and long range. Defense goes to McHale at the 4. I don’t think overall there is a lot of space between the two - you could argue either.  But this all goes to show how great ‘86 was - we’re not even talking about Bird who was better than all of them. 

[Kernewek]

Of course, it's the 86 team. There were arguably the greatest NBA team of all time. Besides the starters, they had 3 bench players who were better than current Celtics bench: Bill Walton, Jerry Sichting and Scott Wedman. Horford, Pritchard, Hauser is not even close.

People forget how great the 86 team really was. They would also flourish in the new NBA rules. Bird would have been even more dominant in the modern NBA. He did what he did when hand checking and physical defense was the standard. McHale absolutely had 3 point range and would have used it much more in the modern NBA. Parish had range as well and his outlet passes were a major weapon. DJ was basically a better , smarter version of Marcus Smart.

Given enough time to adjust, I agree. 86 is one of the all-time great teams in the NBA, so the answer of 'the better team is going to win' is pretty boring.

This is part of the reason I might suggest that we evaluate this sort of hypothetical, inter-generational matchups as if you'd plucked both rosters out of thin air. You know how you see guys struggle to adjust when playing their first serious competition under FIBA rules?

It's all well and good to say 'McHale had 3-point range and could have been lethal from distance', because there's a small amount of evidence of that in his final season, but that doesn't mean 1986 McHale is going to be hitting 7-8 at even a 30% clip if we somehow dropped both squads into a best of five or seven tomorrow. Bird is fine. Walton is fine. DJ is fine. Ainge is probably fine. Parish & McHale? They're going to have to adjust to very different game of basketball very quickly. I have no doubt they could do it over, say, a season. A series? Maybe, maybe not.

edit: the inverse is also true for the modern-day team playing under an 80's whistle, but the 86 team is simply better, so no reason to bring that up really.

[footey]

This team on days like this (destroyed Clippers by nearly 40 points) remind me of how the '86 Celtics would destroy opponents, multiple ways.  Just keep pouring it on.  Starting to really like our depth too.

[tazzmaniac]

Of course, it's the 86 team. There were arguably the greatest NBA team of all time. Besides the starters, they had 3 bench players who were better than current Celtics bench: Bill Walton, Jerry Sichting and Scott Wedman. Horford, Pritchard, Hauser is not even close.

People forget how great the 86 team really was. They would also flourish in the new NBA rules. Bird would have been even more dominant in the modern NBA. He did what he did when hand checking and physical defense was the standard. McHale absolutely had 3 point range and would have used it much more in the modern NBA. Parish had range as well and his outlet passes were a major weapon. DJ was basically a better , smarter version of Marcus Smart.

Given enough time to adjust, I agree. 86 is one of the all-time great teams in the NBA, so the answer of 'the better team is going to win' is pretty boring.

This is part of the reason I might suggest that we evaluate this sort of hypothetical, inter-generational matchups as if you'd plucked both rosters out of thin air. You know how you see guys struggle to adjust when playing their first serious competition under FIBA rules?

It's all well and good to say 'McHale had 3-point range and could have been lethal from distance', because there's a small amount of evidence of that in his final season, but that doesn't mean 1986 McHale is going to be hitting 7-8 at even a 30% clip if we somehow dropped both squads into a best of five or seven tomorrow. Bird is fine. Walton is fine. DJ is fine. Ainge is probably fine. Parish & McHale? They're going to have to adjust to very different game of basketball very quickly. I have no doubt they could do it over, say, a season. A series? Maybe, maybe not.

edit: the inverse is also true for the modern-day team playing under an 80's whistle, but the 86 team is simply better, so no reason to bring that up really.

So you're basically trying to hamstring the 86 team as much as possible to make it interesting?  Personally I don't find that interesting. 

The focus on McHale and Parish shooting 3s is silly.  Bigs don't need to be able to shoot 3s to be successful even in the modern game.  No big shoots 7-8 3s a game.  Lopez shoots the most at 5.1.  Embiid and Jokic barely shoot over 3 per game.  There are 5 players scoring over 30pts per game:  Embiid, Doncic, Durant, Giannis and Shai.  Of those only Donic shoots a lot of 3s.  Durant is 2nd most at only 4.6 per game.  Even Shai, a guard, is dominating only shooting 3.3 per game at 31%.  All five of them do get to the free throw line a lot:  8.2+ per game. 

The 86 team would do great offensively and I don't think it would take them much time to come up to speed.  The bigger issue, which would take time, would be coming up to speed on defense. 
The Nuggets just won the championship with Jokic and a not particularly impressive supporting cast.  Bird and the 86 team would dominate. 

[Kernewek]

I didn’t say anything about Parish shooting threes? The discussion around McHale shooting threes was based on the previous post, which is how conversations usually go when you bother to actually read them instead of straw-manning what you think they say.

I highlighted Parish & McHale because those are the two roles that have arguably changed the most between 2023 and 1986, on both sides of the ball.

[tenn_smoothie]

Short memories here, as well as I'm guessing half the current CS members did not see the '86 team.
Ranking all the players from both teams, Kevin McHale is the second best after Bird. I'll take McHale over Tatum all day long.
Derrick White or Jrue Holiday better than Hall-of-Fame, 3x champion, finals MVP Dennis Johnson ? Kinda ridiculous.
Also, don't forget that Parish averaged a high 20+/12+ double-double per game in Golden State before he sacrificed for the team in Boston.
As long as we are comparing, I'll take the '84 team over '23 as well. They would have pounded this current group into dust on the offensive boards.

[aefgogreen]

So far no title I'll say 92. Chemistry is getting good.

Porzingis vs Parish.  Advantage Kristaps.  Three point shooting matters. 3 level scorers. Parish a much better rebounder. 

Tatum vs Mchale Advantage Tatum.  Absolutely loved McHale.  Have to give the all around Advantage to Tatum,  at least in today's NBA. 

Brown vs Bird. Advantage Brown,  First 300 million dollar player.  Need I say more? Okay I'm kidding.  Bird in a landslide Bird overall rating 99 Brown 89

White vs Ainge. With all do respect Danny.  White is my favorite player in the leauge currently.  Advantage Derrick.

Holiday vs DJ. Advantage DJ. He drove me nuts, but he was a proven champion.  Maybe a better defender than Holiday believe it or not.

 Overall though.  It's the 86 team. It's the 99 Basketball IQ that make them unbeatable.  And this year's team hasn't proved that yet.

Even with current style, I’d take Parish over KP. Parish was much more durable and I think the defensive impact is greater.