Author Topic: Shams: Smart & Celtics will not agree to deal by deadline tonight (luxury tax)  (Read 9875 times)

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Offline Eddie20

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Danny will need to the same thing he did to replace Crowder with Semi

I bet Miami trades Dragic by the trade deadline and signs Smart next offseason =(

This Semi replaced Crowder notion really needs to stop.

Incorrect. Dragic or not they still won't be able to afford Smart.

Offline Big333223

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This is probably not terrible news for us, Marcus will be extra-motivated this season and the league-wide cap situation is shaping up to be a major buyers' market this offseason.
Yep. Everything I read that concerns next offseason, talks about cap space being more sparse than it was this past summer, when it was much more sparse than it had been the year before. Smart's market value next summer is probably closer to what the Celtics has in mind than what Smart and/or his agent has in mind.

But we'll see how it plays out. Hopefully Marcus has a year that demands a big fat raise.  ;)
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Offline saltlover

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If Smart has a decent season, there will be at least one team out there (BKLN, Mavs, PHIL?) that will pay him more than we will be willing to match. We have to pay Kyrie max deal a year later, so there just won't be enough bread to pay Smart what at least one team will offer him. Too bad.

Brooklyn will definitely not have cap space for like the next 3 years. If anything, look for them to take another big contract for a young player/draft asset like they did with DeAngelo Russell.
Dallas would probably not want to pursue Marcus, considering their bargain guards (curry and dennis smith). Likely to pursue a wing or big (nerlens noel).
Philly would rather save their money for Robert Covington.

You’re very incorrect about Dallas.

1) Seth Curry is an unrestricted free agent next year.  He’s certainly not blocking Smart.
2) Smith is an exciting prospect, but there’s room for both on the roster.
3) Noel only has a cap hold of $8 million next year, so they can go over the cap to keep him very easily, should they choose.
4) Smart is closer in age to Harrison Barnes and Noel (25 and 23) than are other free agents, which would put that core on the same development timeline.
5) Smart could very well be best free agent Dallas can get to sign. They shouldn’t be an attractive option for the guys on their third or fourth contract looking for a super team, and those players wouldn’t make as much sense to Dallas either.
6) Smart is from Dallas and has always played very well there.

I will be very surprised if Dallas isn’t a major suitor for Smart next summer.  The best hope for that not happening is that Smith Jr. plays so well that it makes more sense for them to pursue a wing in free agency.  That’s not impossible, but it is unlikely for a rookie PG.

Offline kozlodoev

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Danny will need to the same thing he did to replace Crowder with Semi

I bet Miami trades Dragic by the trade deadline and signs Smart next offseason =(

This Semi replaced Crowder notion really needs to stop.

Incorrect. Dragic or not they still won't be able to afford Smart.
Why? We did replace Crowder... in pretty much the same way in which we replaced Isaiah Thomas with Shane Larkin.  ;D
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Offline coffee425

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If Smart has a decent season, there will be at least one team out there (BKLN, Mavs, PHIL?) that will pay him more than we will be willing to match. We have to pay Kyrie max deal a year later, so there just won't be enough bread to pay Smart what at least one team will offer him. Too bad.

Brooklyn will definitely not have cap space for like the next 3 years. If anything, look for them to take another big contract for a young player/draft asset like they did with DeAngelo Russell.
Dallas would probably not want to pursue Marcus, considering their bargain guards (curry and dennis smith). Likely to pursue a wing or big (nerlens noel).
Philly would rather save their money for Robert Covington.

You’re very incorrect about Dallas.

1) Seth Curry is an unrestricted free agent next year.  He’s certainly not blocking Smart.
2) Smith is an exciting prospect, but there’s room for both on the roster.
3) Noel only has a cap hold of $8 million next year, so they can go over the cap to keep him very easily, should they choose.
4) Smart is closer in age to Harrison Barnes and Noel (25 and 23) than are other free agents, which would put that core on the same development timeline.
5) Smart could very well be best free agent Dallas can get to sign. They shouldn’t be an attractive option for the guys on their third or fourth contract looking for a super team, and those players wouldn’t make as much sense to Dallas either.
6) Smart is from Dallas and has always played very well there.

I will be very surprised if Dallas isn’t a major suitor for Smart next summer.  The best hope for that not happening is that Smith Jr. plays so well that it makes more sense for them to pursue a wing in free agency.  That’s not impossible, but it is unlikely for a rookie PG.

I am a very big Smart fan, but I don't see why they would pay that high for a good role player... on a team full of highly paid role players
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Offline manl_lui

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If Smart has a decent season, there will be at least one team out there (BKLN, Mavs, PHIL?) that will pay him more than we will be willing to match. We have to pay Kyrie max deal a year later, so there just won't be enough bread to pay Smart what at least one team will offer him. Too bad.

Brooklyn will definitely not have cap space for like the next 3 years. If anything, look for them to take another big contract for a young player/draft asset like they did with DeAngelo Russell.
Dallas would probably not want to pursue Marcus, considering their bargain guards (curry and dennis smith). Likely to pursue a wing or big (nerlens noel).
Philly would rather save their money for Robert Covington.

You’re very incorrect about Dallas.

1) Seth Curry is an unrestricted free agent next year.  He’s certainly not blocking Smart.
2) Smith is an exciting prospect, but there’s room for both on the roster.
3) Noel only has a cap hold of $8 million next year, so they can go over the cap to keep him very easily, should they choose.
4) Smart is closer in age to Harrison Barnes and Noel (25 and 23) than are other free agents, which would put that core on the same development timeline.
5) Smart could very well be best free agent Dallas can get to sign. They shouldn’t be an attractive option for the guys on their third or fourth contract looking for a super team, and those players wouldn’t make as much sense to Dallas either.
6) Smart is from Dallas and has always played very well there.

I will be very surprised if Dallas isn’t a major suitor for Smart next summer.  The best hope for that not happening is that Smith Jr. plays so well that it makes more sense for them to pursue a wing in free agency.  That’s not impossible, but it is unlikely for a rookie PG.

I am a very big Smart fan, but I don't see why they would pay that high for a good role player... on a team full of highly paid role players

unless Dallas is promising Smart to start, and Smart is from the Texas area, then Dallas has a very good case to pry Smart away from us

Offline mmmmm

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Math problem.

Right now, assuming the Celtics opt-in on both Terry & Jaylen next year, they have 107M committed to 11 players for 2018-19.

If the luxury tax threshold is roughly ~125M, then that leaves just around 18M of room to play before going over.

In addition to Marcus, Aron Baynes and Shane Larkin will be Unrestricted Free Agents and we will also have to potentially sign both our own pick (which won't cost too much) and possibly the LAL18 pick (which could cost between 4.4M and 6M).

When people are talking about numbers as low as 12M and as high as 20M for Marcus Smart (and the Gary Harris comp comes in at 16.5M in the first year of that 84M deal), you can see how suddenly that ~18M of room under the tax can disappear pretty quickly.

I think Danny also has to wait to see whether the Laker's pick will convey or not.  Because it represents a big chunk of salary commitment.

And what do you do about Aron Baynes?  If he plays well, he could cost a lot more than this year's 4M bargain deal.  Even if you let him walk, you have to replace his big body with someone.  And veteran big bodies aren't cheap.

I concur with SaltLover:   I would view Dallas as a serious threat to make an offer sheet for Marcus.   They have very little committed money for 2018-19 and other than Dennis Smith, Jr., I don't see any of their guards as more compelling than Smart.
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Offline TheSundanceKid

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It'd be quite odd if they did sign something I think, not that I wouldn't be happy. Smart should want something in line with the overpay extensions of the last few weeks whereas Ainge will want a team friendly deal.

Better for us as a franchise to wait til the summer. If he has a great season then there is more certainty in paying him, also a better chance of using the market in our favour due to the lack of cap space amongst teams.

Offline Darío SpanishFan

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It'd be quite odd if they did sign something I think, not that I wouldn't be happy. Smart should want something in line with the overpay extensions of the last few weeks whereas Ainge will want a team friendly deal.

Better for us as a franchise to wait til the summer. If he has a great season then there is more certainty in paying him, also a better chance of using the market in our favour due to the lack of cap space amongst teams.

This is not the issue (space amongst teams). With a team such as Dallas having much space, we might have a very big problem. With only ONE team in this situation.

Offline Monkhouse

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Math problem.

Right now, assuming the Celtics opt-in on both Terry & Jaylen next year, they have 107M committed to 11 players for 2018-19.

If the luxury tax threshold is roughly ~125M, then that leaves just around 18M of room to play before going over.

In addition to Marcus, Aron Baynes and Shane Larkin will be Unrestricted Free Agents and we will also have to potentially sign both our own pick (which won't cost too much) and possibly the LAL18 pick (which could cost between 4.4M and 6M).

When people are talking about numbers as low as 12M and as high as 20M for Marcus Smart (and the Gary Harris comp comes in at 16.5M in the first year of that 84M deal), you can see how suddenly that ~18M of room under the tax can disappear pretty quickly.

I think Danny also has to wait to see whether the Laker's pick will convey or not.  Because it represents a big chunk of salary commitment.

And what do you do about Aron Baynes?  If he plays well, he could cost a lot more than this year's 4M bargain deal.  Even if you let him walk, you have to replace his big body with someone.  And veteran big bodies aren't cheap.

I concur with SaltLover:   I would view Dallas as a serious threat to make an offer sheet for Marcus.   They have very little committed money for 2018-19 and other than Dennis Smith, Jr., I don't see any of their guards as more compelling than Smart.

The good news is GSW will literally be facing this same exact issue in about 2 years, and will probably have no choice but to trade either Klay or Green, or risk having an extremely high tax bill.
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Offline Eja117

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I wonder if the next big free agency class is something danny is eying. Maybe he thinks at worst he lets him walk to make room for a star next free agency.  A free agent like dare I say avery Bradley is available lol
IT could be available

Offline tazzmaniac

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Math problem.

Right now, assuming the Celtics opt-in on both Terry & Jaylen next year, they have 107M committed to 11 players for 2018-19.

If the luxury tax threshold is roughly ~125M, then that leaves just around 18M of room to play before going over.

In addition to Marcus, Aron Baynes and Shane Larkin will be Unrestricted Free Agents and we will also have to potentially sign both our own pick (which won't cost too much) and possibly the LAL18 pick (which could cost between 4.4M and 6M).

When people are talking about numbers as low as 12M and as high as 20M for Marcus Smart (and the Gary Harris comp comes in at 16.5M in the first year of that 84M deal), you can see how suddenly that ~18M of room under the tax can disappear pretty quickly.

I think Danny also has to wait to see whether the Laker's pick will convey or not.  Because it represents a big chunk of salary commitment.

And what do you do about Aron Baynes?  If he plays well, he could cost a lot more than this year's 4M bargain deal.  Even if you let him walk, you have to replace his big body with someone.  And veteran big bodies aren't cheap.

I concur with SaltLover:   I would view Dallas as a serious threat to make an offer sheet for Marcus.   They have very little committed money for 2018-19 and other than Dennis Smith, Jr., I don't see any of their guards as more compelling than Smart.
Why would Dallas prioritize Smart over unrestricted free agents like Bradley and KCP or re-signing Curry?  Restricted free agents are attracting even less interest than usual.  Defensive oriented role players (non-bigs) don't attract big offers.

Offline CelticsElite

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Shams: Sources: Marcus Smart’s agent and Boston remained fully engaged before extension deadline. No deal, couldn't bridge the gap. For Boston, hurdle in closing gap with Smart extension talks was luxury tax implication, league sources said. Now risk losing Smart in July’s RFA.

If the luxury tax fear is true, a free agent bidding battle isn't going to help. Is danny going to trade smart at the deadline for whatever he can get like he did with bradley?  Smart for markieff morris? Lol

Offline greenrunsdeep41

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I feel like it is simple - Danny did not want to go into the luxury a year early to avoid repeater tax for as long as he can.
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Offline Dino Pitino

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I wonder what the gap was.
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