CelticsStrong
Around the League => Around the NBA => Topic started by: Birdman on January 11, 2018, 08:55:25 PM
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Toronto Raptors are for real folks..everyone are talking bout Celtics or Cavs coming out of the East but I wouldn't be shock if Toronto does..
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I tend to agree. We are all so over-worried about clev that the Raptors are a bit overlooked. They are laying in on Lebron and the cavs tonight. Of course it doesn't help when IT plays 15 min and is 0-10 from the field and they are getting clobbered on the boards 36-21 at half.
I actually think a Celtics - Raptors ECF would be very entertaining...
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Not to rain on the parade, but I think they have played one of the easiest schedules in the league thus far.
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They are loaded this year..seriously I see no weakness
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Without Hayward, they are better than us.
Neither team can beat the Cavs in the playoffs.
Wouldnt read too much into this performance. Cleveland has been BAD lately.
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Without Hayward, they are better than us.
Neither team can beat the Cavs in the playoffs.
Wouldnt read too much into this performance. Cleveland has been BAD lately.
I disagree that neither team can beat the cavs. I think both of them could. I get it, Cavs probably have another gear once the playoffs hit. I also know that we are going to add a player with the DPE, and there is a good chance both Toronto and Boston will have home court over Cleveland. We have a completely different team from last year. Last year's team felt way more of an underdog against Clev than this team does. We don't have to hide IT on defense, we have improved defense and improved rebounding.
At some point Lebron isn't going to be able to drag his team into the finals, and it might be this year.
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A cavs team with a Horrible defense having to win 2 series on the road is going to need a herculean effort from Lebron.
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They are loaded this year..seriously I see no weakness
Well, come playoff time and you'll see DeRozan or Lowry (or both) become mediocre and as a result lead to an underwhelming playoffs for them.
I mean yes, they are a true threat, they are Top-3 in the East, but come on, they aren't unstoppable and I still highly doubt they make it out of the East (and frankly, I don't think Boston does either, but BOS could still make it a series vs. either Toronto or Cleveland w/o Hayward).
Oh and if I'm not mistaken, we beat them earlier in the season WITHOUT Irving.
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Without Hayward, they are better than us.
Neither team can beat the Cavs in the playoffs.
Wouldnt read too much into this performance. Cleveland has been BAD lately.
Disagree. I think it's conceivable that both Boston and Toronto could knock off this year's iteration of the Cavs. In fact, I think that we should be considered the frontrunners right now with Toronto second. This Cavs team hasn't shown that this year's team can consistently win at a high level (i.e. their offense bail out their terrible defense) against the league's best, and they have yet to show that they can field a defense (especially a defense featuring such prominent points of exploitation) that is capable of getting them out of the Eastern Conference.
Both Boston and Toronto match-up extremely well against this year's Cavs team, especially in the backcourt where IT can not be hidden in Cleveland.
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Toronto Raptors are for real folks..everyone are talking bout Celtics or Cavs coming out of the East but I wouldn't be shock if Toronto does..
Nah. Outside of Valencunas they're too soft. And we have Baynes to take his effectiveness out. Neither Lowry or Derozan is good enough to lead them that far. IMO we're more talented, tougher, and we always have the Brad factor.
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Without Hayward, they are better than us.
Neither team can beat the Cavs in the playoffs.
Wouldnt read too much into this performance. Cleveland has been BAD lately.
Disagree. I think it's conceivable that both Boston and Toronto could knock off this year's iteration of the Cavs. In fact, I think that we should be considered the frontrunners right now with Toronto second. This Cavs team hasn't shown that this year's team can consistently win at a high level (i.e. their offense bail out their terrible defense) against the league's best, and they have yet to show that they can field a defense (especially a defense featuring such prominent points of exploitation) that is capable of getting them out of the Eastern Conference.
Both Boston and Toronto match-up extremely well against this year's Cavs team, especially in the backcourt where IT can not be hidden in Cleveland.
The word "can't" was inappropriate. I agree. Boston and Toronto could both conceivably come out of the East.
I think Cavs should be heavy favorites to come out of the East.
I will also say that both this Boston and this Toronto team are better than any teams lebron has seen in the East since the Paul George Pacers(when they were actually good) and I may go as far back as the '10 Celtics before you find a team better than either '17 Toronto or '17 Boston.
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We need to get through the first-round first. Don't forget the Bulls nearly knocked the Celtics out last year.
It took superstar performances from IT4, Gerald Green, and Avery Bradley and Rondo out to beat them.
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We’re +11 as a road team, second to the GSW. Raptors are +5.
We’re +7 against teams with a 500 or better record, again second to GSW. Raptors are +0.
Raptors should be worried about us.
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We’re +11 as a road team, second to the GSW. Raptors are +5.
We’re +7 against teams with a 500 or better record, again second to GSW. Raptors are +0.
Raptors should be worried about us.
Exactly. So tired of the gutless "We can't beat the Cavs" posts. Grow a pair Celtics fans.
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Cavs coach is the one that needs to be worried. That team has a lot of quit in it. Heart transplants can't be performed overnight.
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They are loaded this year..seriously I see no weakness
It is their lack of passing that is their biggest problem. It makes their offense too predictable. In the playoffs where teams know everything you do and gameplan defensively more for each individual team, that predictability is costly. It forces Toronto to constantly attack a set defense and get far fewer open looks at the basket. Which sinks their offensive efficiency and effectiveness.
Toronto still hasn't addressed that lack of passing. Especially with their big men. Ibaka one of the worst passing PFs in the league. Valanciunas is a mediocre passer but those passing skills aren't even utilized correctly so Toronto gets hardly any value from his passing. It's hard to have a complex offense when neither of your bigs can pass the ball. Facilitate the offense.
It leads to too much one-on-one play from DeRozan and Lowry. That will catch up with them in the playoffs.
I love a lot of what Toronto do but the balance just isn't right on that team to be successful offensively in the playoffs. They need to make some changes to their big man rotation. Unfortunately, they are standing pat and wasting this opportunity that they do have. Bad management.
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Not to rain on the parade, but I think they have played one of the easiest schedules in the league thus far.
This isn't accurate. The Raptors have 1 game in the Central time zone the rest of the season and every other game is in the Eastern time zone. They have played 23 road games and 17 home games. They are 15-2 at home and 14-9 on the road (and remember the only western team they haven't played on the road is Minnesota). They obviously still have some tough western teams at home (GS is their next game) and have some tough eastern road games, but I'd be pretty surprised if the Raptors aren't the 1 seed.
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Even though I think the Raptors are going to be the 1 seed, I would give them <1% chance to beat the Cavs in the playoffs. They have no one that can even pretend to guard Lebron James. James will just have a field day on them just as he did last year when the Raptors had Tucker, Joseph, and Carroll to throw at him (along with Powell, DeRozan, etc.).
Boston has a better shot at beating Cleveland than Toronto does, but I don't think Boston would beat Toronto in a series, which is why the actual seeding matters this year. Boston needs the 1 seed so that it only has to face either Toronto and Cleveland and not both (I can't see any other team realistically cracking the top 3, but I suppose it is possible that this Cleveland slump lasts longer than last year and some other team gets hot).
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Per basketball-reference, the Raptors are currently the #3 offense and #3 defense, which is really good. I think the Celtics can beat them but I'll be happy if the current playoff seeding holds, with the Raptors and Cavs facing off in the 2nd round and the Celtics getting whoever emerges.
I definitely think the Raptors have a chance against that old Cavs team that is going to have a lot of trouble turning on the playoff defense this year.
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Even though I think the Raptors are going to be the 1 seed, I would give them <1% chance to beat the Cavs in the playoffs. They have no one that can even pretend to guard Lebron James. James will just have a field day on them just as he did last year when the Raptors had Tucker, Joseph, and Carroll to throw at him (along with Powell, DeRozan, etc.).
Boston has a better shot at beating Cleveland than Toronto does, but I don't think Boston would beat Toronto in a series, which is why the actual seeding matters this year. Boston needs the 1 seed so that it only has to face either Toronto and Cleveland and not both (I can't see any other team realistically cracking the top 3, but I suppose it is possible that this Cleveland slump lasts longer than last year and some other team gets hot).
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This wouldn't require some catastrophic turn of events or somebody getting super hot. Just a Miami Heat team that has battled injury problems all year winning 2 or 3 more games than the Cavs the rest of the way (Or the Wizards). Considering three of the Cavs next 4 games are against the Warriors, Spurs and Thunder they be tied in a week or so.
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We need to get through the first-round first. Don't forget the Bulls nearly knocked the Celtics out last year.
It took superstar performances from IT4, Gerald Green, and Avery Bradley and Rondo out to beat them.
So a completely different and better roster may not win a first round series because another version of the team had trouble last year and it took 3 great performances from players that are no longer here to get through?
That's odd reasoning.
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Not to rain on the parade, but I think they have played one of the easiest schedules in the league thus far.
This isn't accurate. The Raptors have 1 game in the Central time zone the rest of the season and every other game is in the Eastern time zone. They have played 23 road games and 17 home games. They are 15-2 at home and 14-9 on the road (and remember the only western team they haven't played on the road is Minnesota). They obviously still have some tough western teams at home (GS is their next game) and have some tough eastern road games, but I'd be pretty surprised if the Raptors aren't the 1 seed.
Strength of schedule.
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Without Hayward, they are better than us.
Neither team can beat the Cavs in the playoffs.
Wouldnt read too much into this performance. Cleveland has been BAD lately.
They are not better than us.
What are you basing that on?
Not to mention, Lowry and Derozen consistently don't play well in the post season, while Kyrie is known for raising his play, and Smart and Horford have done that as well.
I respect them, but no way in hell do I fear them.
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Not to rain on the parade, but I think they have played one of the easiest schedules in the league thus far.
This isn't accurate. The Raptors have 1 game in the Central time zone the rest of the season and every other game is in the Eastern time zone. They have played 23 road games and 17 home games. They are 15-2 at home and 14-9 on the road (and remember the only western team they haven't played on the road is Minnesota). They obviously still have some tough western teams at home (GS is their next game) and have some tough eastern road games, but I'd be pretty surprised if the Raptors aren't the 1 seed.
Lol.
I literally don't think I have ever seen you post positive things about the Celtics, but immediately rush to say great things about other teams.
You will be shocked if the Celtics stay the number 1 seed?
What?
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Without Hayward, they are better than us.
Neither team can beat the Cavs in the playoffs.
Wouldnt read too much into this performance. Cleveland has been BAD lately.
They are not better than us.
What are you basing that on?
Not to mention, Lowry and Derozen consistently don't play well in the post season, while Kyrie is known for raising his play, and Smart and Horford have done that as well.
I respect them, but no way in hell do I fear them.
Point differentials, strength of schedule, home and away stuff. Pretty much any metric but raw w/l.
The Raptors playoff troubles have been overblown.
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Without Hayward, they are better than us.
Neither team can beat the Cavs in the playoffs.
Wouldnt read too much into this performance. Cleveland has been BAD lately.
They are not better than us.
What are you basing that on?
Not to mention, Lowry and Derozen consistently don't play well in the post season, while Kyrie is known for raising his play, and Smart and Horford have done that as well.
I respect them, but no way in hell do I fear them.
The Raptors playoff troubles have been overblown.
The raptors have made it past the conference semis once in their 23 year history. There is nothing overblown about saying they're weak in the playoffs at all.
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Without Hayward, they are better than us.
Neither team can beat the Cavs in the playoffs.
Wouldnt read too much into this performance. Cleveland has been BAD lately.
They are not better than us.
What are you basing that on?
Not to mention, Lowry and Derozen consistently don't play well in the post season, while Kyrie is known for raising his play, and Smart and Horford have done that as well.
I respect them, but no way in hell do I fear them.
The Raptors playoff troubles have been overblown.
The raptors have made it past the conference semis once in their 23 year history. There is nothing overblown about saying they're weak in the playoffs at all.
last year they handled the Bucks and then got bullied by the cavs when Lowry couldn't play through injury any more.
2 years ago they made the ECF and pushed Bron and the eventual champs to 6.
It's the East. Lowry has been injured. Derozan isn't the player he was 2+ years ago.
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Not to rain on the parade, but I think they have played one of the easiest schedules in the league thus far.
This isn't accurate. The Raptors have 1 game in the Central time zone the rest of the season and every other game is in the Eastern time zone. They have played 23 road games and 17 home games. They are 15-2 at home and 14-9 on the road (and remember the only western team they haven't played on the road is Minnesota). They obviously still have some tough western teams at home (GS is their next game) and have some tough eastern road games, but I'd be pretty surprised if the Raptors aren't the 1 seed.
Lol.
I literally don't think I have ever seen you post positive things about the Celtics, but immediately rush to say great things about other teams.
You will be shocked if the Celtics stay the number 1 seed?
What?
It is understandable. His team just got blown out by the Raptors.
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Without Hayward, they are better than us.
Neither team can beat the Cavs in the playoffs.
Wouldnt read too much into this performance. Cleveland has been BAD lately.
They are not better than us.
What are you basing that on?
Not to mention, Lowry and Derozen consistently don't play well in the post season, while Kyrie is known for raising his play, and Smart and Horford have done that as well.
I respect them, but no way in hell do I fear them.
The Raptors playoff troubles have been overblown.
The raptors have made it past the conference semis once in their 23 year history. There is nothing overblown about saying they're weak in the playoffs at all.
last year they handled the Bucks and then got bullied by the cavs when Lowry couldn't play through injury any more.
2 years ago they made the ECF and pushed Bron and the eventual champs to 6.
It's the East. Lowry has been injured. Derozan isn't the player he was 2+ years ago.
Lowry and Derozen have proven to be poor playoff performers. That is indisputable.
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Not to rain on the parade, but I think they have played one of the easiest schedules in the league thus far.
This isn't accurate. The Raptors have 1 game in the Central time zone the rest of the season and every other game is in the Eastern time zone. They have played 23 road games and 17 home games. They are 15-2 at home and 14-9 on the road (and remember the only western team they haven't played on the road is Minnesota). They obviously still have some tough western teams at home (GS is their next game) and have some tough eastern road games, but I'd be pretty surprised if the Raptors aren't the 1 seed.
Strength of schedule.
the advanced/weighted SOS have the Raptors playing a more difficult schedule than the Celtics thus far. Which makes sense given what I posted aboit their road heavy western conference heavy schedule.
They play 1 game outside if the Eastern Time Zone the rest of the way (and it is Minnesota which is a short flight). That is insane. They are 14-2 at home and have played 6 less home games.
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A cavs team with a Horrible defense having to win 2 series on the road is going to need a herculean effort from Lebron.
Well, Lebron pretty much is Hercules so the Cavs winning two series on the road is not at all far-fetched.
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Toronto just doesn't concern me. They're not even on my radar. Too untrustworthy come playoff time.
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the raptors are the Memphis grizzlies of the east. they've gone as far as they're ever going to go, they've floundered near the top but never going to break through.
the only way they get over the top is if the better teams ahead of them collapse.
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Not to rain on the parade, but I think they have played one of the easiest schedules in the league thus far.
This isn't accurate. The Raptors have 1 game in the Central time zone the rest of the season and every other game is in the Eastern time zone. They have played 23 road games and 17 home games. They are 15-2 at home and 14-9 on the road (and remember the only western team they haven't played on the road is Minnesota). They obviously still have some tough western teams at home (GS is their next game) and have some tough eastern road games, but I'd be pretty surprised if the Raptors aren't the 1 seed.
Strength of schedule.
the advanced/weighted SOS have the Raptors playing a more difficult schedule than the Celtics thus far. Which makes sense given what I posted aboit their road heavy western conference heavy schedule.
They play 1 game outside if the Eastern Time Zone the rest of the way (and it is Minnesota which is a short flight). That is insane. They are 14-2 at home and have played 6 less home games.
The East is 500 against the West so far this year.
There's 2 widely used SOS metrics. One is simple SOS and the other is RPI which is known to college BB fans. Both have BOS > TOR. I'm sure if one looks long enough, they'll find some model that shows TOR with a tougher schedule by incorporating days of rest, backs to back etc. etc., but there's likely more going the C's way given that the simple SOS calculations does.
I look both to road records and especially records against 500+ teams as indicative of playoff success. BOS leads both and our total 3 game advantage vs TOR in the standings is solely due to our much better record against 500+ teams (14-7 vs 9-8). Among the 6 teams with the best records whom most people think of as contenders BOS is 5-2, GSW 4-2, HOU 3-3, TOR 2-3, SAS 2-3, and CLE 1-4 with one of the Cs losses being the GH injury game.
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Not to rain on the parade, but I think they have played one of the easiest schedules in the league thus far.
This isn't accurate. The Raptors have 1 game in the Central time zone the rest of the season and every other game is in the Eastern time zone. They have played 23 road games and 17 home games. They are 15-2 at home and 14-9 on the road (and remember the only western team they haven't played on the road is Minnesota). They obviously still have some tough western teams at home (GS is their next game) and have some tough eastern road games, but I'd be pretty surprised if the Raptors aren't the 1 seed.
Strength of schedule.
the advanced/weighted SOS have the Raptors playing a more difficult schedule than the Celtics thus far. Which makes sense given what I posted aboit their road heavy western conference heavy schedule.
They play 1 game outside if the Eastern Time Zone the rest of the way (and it is Minnesota which is a short flight). That is insane. They are 14-2 at home and have played 6 less home games.
The East is 500 against the West so far this year.
There's 2 widely used SOS metrics. One is simple SOS and the other is RPI which is known to college BB fans. Both have BOS > TOR. I'm sure if one looks long enough, they'll find some model that shows TOR with a tougher schedule by incorporating days of rest, backs to back etc. etc., but there's likely more going the C's way given that the simple SOS calculations does.
I look both to road records and especially records against 500+ teams as indicative of playoff success. BOS leads both and our total 3 game advantage vs TOR in the standings is solely due to our much better record against 500+ teams (14-7 vs 9-8). Among the 6 teams with the best records whom most people think of as contenders BOS is 5-2, GSW 4-2, HOU 3-3, TOR 2-3, SAS 2-3, and CLE 1-4 with one of the Cs losses being the GH injury game.
My point about the West, was just that they don't have to travel as much the rest of the season. They have just 1 game outside of the Eastern Time Zone. That is just insane at this point in the season. There are plenty of metrics on schedule and how best to calculate it. Here is one that has the Raptors at 10 and Celtics at 26 https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/ranking/schedule-strength-by-other
basketball-reference's, SRS which accounts for both schedule strength and margin of victory, has the Raptors at 7.40 which is 3rd while the Celtics are 4.70 though 4th.
The Raptors are 14-2 at home and have played 6 less games at home. They have just 1 3 game road trip the rest of the season and that includes a day off in between all games and the 3 teams are NY, Brooklyn, and Indiana. Though they do have 6 back to backs and they have to travel in every single one of them (I still don't understand why the NBA does that so much in the schedule, but that is a different topic for a different day). So there are some challenges, but those challenges are all basically at home or a relatively short flight
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Not to rain on the parade, but I think they have played one of the easiest schedules in the league thus far.
This isn't accurate. The Raptors have 1 game in the Central time zone the rest of the season and every other game is in the Eastern time zone. They have played 23 road games and 17 home games. They are 15-2 at home and 14-9 on the road (and remember the only western team they haven't played on the road is Minnesota). They obviously still have some tough western teams at home (GS is their next game) and have some tough eastern road games, but I'd be pretty surprised if the Raptors aren't the 1 seed.
Strength of schedule.
the advanced/weighted SOS have the Raptors playing a more difficult schedule than the Celtics thus far. Which makes sense given what I posted aboit their road heavy western conference heavy schedule.
They play 1 game outside if the Eastern Time Zone the rest of the way (and it is Minnesota which is a short flight). That is insane. They are 14-2 at home and have played 6 less home games.
The East is 500 against the West so far this year.
There's 2 widely used SOS metrics. One is simple SOS and the other is RPI which is known to college BB fans. Both have BOS > TOR. I'm sure if one looks long enough, they'll find some model that shows TOR with a tougher schedule by incorporating days of rest, backs to back etc. etc., but there's likely more going the C's way given that the simple SOS calculations does.
I look both to road records and especially records against 500+ teams as indicative of playoff success. BOS leads both and our total 3 game advantage vs TOR in the standings is solely due to our much better record against 500+ teams (14-7 vs 9-8). Among the 6 teams with the best records whom most people think of as contenders BOS is 5-2, GSW 4-2, HOU 3-3, TOR 2-3, SAS 2-3, and CLE 1-4 with one of the Cs losses being the GH injury game.
My point about the West, was just that they don't have to travel as much the rest of the season. They have just 1 game outside of the Eastern Time Zone. That is just insane at this point in the season. There are plenty of metrics on schedule and how best to calculate it. Here is one that has the Raptors at 10 and Celtics at 26 https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/ranking/schedule-strength-by-other
basketball-reference's, SRS which accounts for both schedule strength and margin of victory, has the Raptors at 7.40 which is 3rd while the Celtics are 4.70 though 4th.
The Raptors are 14-2 at home and have played 6 less games at home. They have just 1 3 game road trip the rest of the season and that includes a day off in between all games and the 3 teams are NY, Brooklyn, and Indiana. Though they do have 6 back to backs and they have to travel in every single one of them (I still don't understand why the NBA does that so much in the schedule, but that is a different topic for a different day). So there are some challenges, but those challenges are all basically at home or a relatively short flight
You want to know why they're 15-2 at home? Look at their home schedule so far:
vs. Bulls (x2), vs. Wizards (x2 early in the season when they were still struggling quite a bit), vs. Philly (x2), vs. Pelicans, vs. Knicks, vs. Hornets, vs. Pacers, vs. Suns, vs. Nets, vs. Kings, vs. Hawks, vs. Bucks, vs. Heat, and vs. Cavaliers.
10 out of those 17 games were against current non-playoff teams. And they still have quite a few tough home games left: 14 out of the 24 remaining home games against current playoff teams, including vs. Celtics (x2), vs. Warriors, vs. Rockets, vs. TWolves, and vs. Spurs.
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Toronto Raptors are for real folks..everyone are talking bout Celtics or Cavs coming out of the East but I wouldn't be shock if Toronto does..
I think that this is the best Toronto team in their 23 year long history.
It is deeper than previous Lowry/Derozan teams.
It is also much more talented and mature than those Carter or Bosh teams.
I am not sure if that is enough to advance to the finals, if of course, all else works out in their favor, but it is definitely worth something if you have managed to put the best team in franchise history on the floor.
I salute their "face-lifting" this summer and look forward to what I predict their 2nd round battle with Cleveland.