Author Topic: Sacramento Kings 2018-19 Season Watch Thread  (Read 123514 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Sacramento Kings 2018-19 Season Watch Thread
« Reply #630 on: January 20, 2019, 07:19:19 PM »

Offline Moranis

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33461
  • Tommy Points: 1533
Haven’t watched them much this season. What explains their success?

Fox?
Fox and Hield are a big reason, they have both been great, but on a larger issue they are very deep and they use that to play at a very fast pace and can wear teams down. 
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: Sacramento Kings 2018-19 Season Watch Thread
« Reply #631 on: January 21, 2019, 12:02:33 AM »

Offline celticsclay

  • Reggie Lewis
  • ***************
  • Posts: 15739
  • Tommy Points: 1386
Yea fox has taken a huge leap. I still would be shocked if they made the playoffs but they are a solid team and won’t be a bottom 5 team.

Re: Sacramento Kings 2018-19 Season Watch Thread
« Reply #632 on: January 21, 2019, 12:13:56 AM »

Offline CelticsElite

  • NCE
  • Danny Ainge
  • **********
  • Posts: 10774
  • Tommy Points: 789
The more important result from this upcoming draft lottery is whether the Memphis pick (and clippers pick) convey to us

If Memphis rolls over to 2020, it was a good result

If both Memphis and clippers roll over, great result.

If memphis rolls over, clips roll over, and kings move up during lottery, best result. Bonus points if that protected 2nd rounder conveys to us


We can still get a great glue bench guy around the 11-14 range if kings stay there...or We can shoot for the stars picking Bol Bol. The big question will be his medical records. Bol will drop, the question is where, and who will roll the dice? 


Without that injury, Bol gets picked anywhere 3 to 6

This is my unpopular opinion- Ainge goes for it and drafts Bol if he's Available.  The "what if" from embiid not sliding to 6th slot in 2014 draft is still there.   Similar injury for similar type of prospect. Wonder if another teams executive also remembers the embiid situation and rolls the dice
« Last Edit: January 21, 2019, 12:20:47 AM by CelticsElite »

Re: Sacramento Kings 2018-19 Season Watch Thread
« Reply #633 on: January 21, 2019, 12:54:43 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21238
  • Tommy Points: 2016
The more important result from this upcoming draft lottery is whether the Memphis pick (and clippers pick) convey to us

If Memphis rolls over to 2020, it was a good result

If both Memphis and clippers roll over, great result.

If memphis rolls over, clips roll over, and kings move up during lottery, best result. Bonus points if that protected 2nd rounder conveys to us


We can still get a great glue bench guy around the 11-14 range if kings stay there...or We can shoot for the stars picking Bol Bol. The big question will be his medical records. Bol will drop, the question is where, and who will roll the dice? 


Without that injury, Bol gets picked anywhere 3 to 6

This is my unpopular opinion- Ainge goes for it and drafts Bol if he's Available.  The "what if" from embiid not sliding to 6th slot in 2014 draft is still there.   Similar injury for similar type of prospect. Wonder if another teams executive also remembers the embiid situation and rolls the dice
why do we want the clippers pick rolling over ?  It’s top 14 protected next year as well and if we don’t get it next year it becomes 2nd rounders.

Re: Sacramento Kings 2018-19 Season Watch Thread
« Reply #634 on: January 21, 2019, 12:57:57 AM »

Offline tazzmaniac

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8113
  • Tommy Points: 549
The more important result from this upcoming draft lottery is whether the Memphis pick (and clippers pick) convey to us

If Memphis rolls over to 2020, it was a good result

If both Memphis and clippers roll over, great result.

If memphis rolls over, clips roll over, and kings move up during lottery, best result. Bonus points if that protected 2nd rounder conveys to us


We can still get a great glue bench guy around the 11-14 range if kings stay there...or We can shoot for the stars picking Bol Bol. The big question will be his medical records. Bol will drop, the question is where, and who will roll the dice? 


Without that injury, Bol gets picked anywhere 3 to 6

This is my unpopular opinion- Ainge goes for it and drafts Bol if he's Available.  The "what if" from embiid not sliding to 6th slot in 2014 draft is still there.   Similar injury for similar type of prospect. Wonder if another teams executive also remembers the embiid situation and rolls the dice
If the Clippers were to miss the playoffs again next season, we'd only get a 2nd so I'd rather get it this year.  It would probably be around 18 or 19.  Memphis rolling over would be good.  However I was listening to a podcast recently and Sam Vecenie said the 2020 draft class may be even weaker than the 2019 draft class.  He had Bol Bol ranked 14 on his big board due to poor defense and questionable work ethic.  With the limited top end talent in this draft, I expect some team will take a chance on him quite a bit higher as long as his medicals checkout. 

Re: Sacramento Kings 2018-19 Season Watch Thread
« Reply #635 on: January 21, 2019, 01:09:29 AM »

Offline CelticsElite

  • NCE
  • Danny Ainge
  • **********
  • Posts: 10774
  • Tommy Points: 789
The more important result from this upcoming draft lottery is whether the Memphis pick (and clippers pick) convey to us

If Memphis rolls over to 2020, it was a good result

If both Memphis and clippers roll over, great result.

If memphis rolls over, clips roll over, and kings move up during lottery, best result. Bonus points if that protected 2nd rounder conveys to us


We can still get a great glue bench guy around the 11-14 range if kings stay there...or We can shoot for the stars picking Bol Bol. The big question will be his medical records. Bol will drop, the question is where, and who will roll the dice? 


Without that injury, Bol gets picked anywhere 3 to 6

This is my unpopular opinion- Ainge goes for it and drafts Bol if he's Available.  The "what if" from embiid not sliding to 6th slot in 2014 draft is still there.   Similar injury for similar type of prospect. Wonder if another teams executive also remembers the embiid situation and rolls the dice
why do we want the clippers pick rolling over ?  It’s top 14 protected next year as well and if we don’t get it next year it becomes 2nd rounders.
thx I wasn't familiar with the clips protection

Lets hope it conveys.

Re: Sacramento Kings 2018-19 Season Watch Thread
« Reply #636 on: January 21, 2019, 09:43:24 AM »

Offline Moranis

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33461
  • Tommy Points: 1533
As I've said in the Memphis thread, I'm not so sure that pick rolling over is going to create any greater value.  What if they have a Kings or Nets type turn around when they unload Gasol and Conley for assets.  Or what if they land Zion this year and he is awesome right out the gate and they just keep getting better and better.  The 9th pick this year might end up being the best value that pick ever has. 
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: Sacramento Kings 2018-19 Season Watch Thread
« Reply #637 on: January 21, 2019, 02:57:05 PM »

Offline celticsclay

  • Reggie Lewis
  • ***************
  • Posts: 15739
  • Tommy Points: 1386
As I've said in the Memphis thread, I'm not so sure that pick rolling over is going to create any greater value.  What if they have a Kings or Nets type turn around when they unload Gasol and Conley for assets.  Or what if they land Zion this year and he is awesome right out the gate and they just keep getting better and better.  The 9th pick this year might end up being the best value that pick ever has.

What theoretical trades could you see them getting for Gasol and Conley that would allow them to turn it around next season? Conley has a 32 million dollar contract next year, and I think has 20k guaranteed the following season. He is also 31 so any rebuilding team is not going to want him. Is he even a positive trade asset? Gasol is 34 and has been really lousy the last month plus. If they got expiring contracts and a mid first round pick for either of those guys that would be a steal.

Then what is the rest of their roster that could take a leap? Obviously Jackson is a really nice piece, but I don't even know who their second best young player is? Kyle Anderson at 25? Dillon Brooks? It has to be one of the bleakest situations in the league right now.

Also I am honestly surprised as anyone by the Kings success, but they are at least doing it on the backs of high lottery picks in hield, fox and bagley and another lottery pick in WCS.

Re: Sacramento Kings 2018-19 Season Watch Thread
« Reply #638 on: January 21, 2019, 03:27:22 PM »

Offline keevsnick

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5515
  • Tommy Points: 549
As I've said in the Memphis thread, I'm not so sure that pick rolling over is going to create any greater value.  What if they have a Kings or Nets type turn around when they unload Gasol and Conley for assets.  Or what if they land Zion this year and he is awesome right out the gate and they just keep getting better and better.  The 9th pick this year might end up being the best value that pick ever has.

Thing is both of those turn around actually took years. Kings had to be bad and take high lottery picks to get good again. Nets had to accumulated assets for years. Whatever the Grizzlies get for those guys likely wont help them nextvyear, even most top 3 picks arent huge winners right away. And the west is really good.

Re: Sacramento Kings 2018-19 Season Watch Thread
« Reply #639 on: January 21, 2019, 04:18:05 PM »

Offline Moranis

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33461
  • Tommy Points: 1533
As I've said in the Memphis thread, I'm not so sure that pick rolling over is going to create any greater value.  What if they have a Kings or Nets type turn around when they unload Gasol and Conley for assets.  Or what if they land Zion this year and he is awesome right out the gate and they just keep getting better and better.  The 9th pick this year might end up being the best value that pick ever has.

What theoretical trades could you see them getting for Gasol and Conley that would allow them to turn it around next season? Conley has a 32 million dollar contract next year, and I think has 20k guaranteed the following season. He is also 31 so any rebuilding team is not going to want him. Is he even a positive trade asset? Gasol is 34 and has been really lousy the last month plus. If they got expiring contracts and a mid first round pick for either of those guys that would be a steal.

Then what is the rest of their roster that could take a leap? Obviously Jackson is a really nice piece, but I don't even know who their second best young player is? Kyle Anderson at 25? Dillon Brooks? It has to be one of the bleakest situations in the league right now.

Also I am honestly surprised as anyone by the Kings success, but they are at least doing it on the backs of high lottery picks in hield, fox and bagley and another lottery pick in WCS.
They don't have to turn it around next year as the pick is top 6 protected.  That gives them 2 years to acquire and add assets.  The Kings still had Cousins this time 2 seasons ago.  They turned it around basically in that time as very few players still remain from before that season and they were able to turn it around using the assets from that trade (and they never truly bottomed out and they still owed the Sixers a pick swap). 

So say they trade Gasol at the deadline and pick up a young player and a 1st round pick (not an elite young player, but say WCS quality level), which would be a fairly reasonable trade value wise.  Say they move Conley next summer and pick up another young player and a 2020 1st round pick.  Again that seems like a fairly reasonable trade.  So they would have 2 picks in 2019 and 2 picks in 2020, one of each would be a top 5 pick.  So entering the 20/21 season they would have Jackson, 2 other high level lottery picks, a couple of late 1st rounders, and whatever young players they get for Conley and Gasol.  They could also use their cap space as a dumping ground and pick up other assets.  That is the exact model the Kings followed.  If they do well in the lottery, those other 2 picks could be something like Zion Williamson and Anthony Edwards/Jaden McDaniels/Cole Anthony, put them with Jackson and some other young players, and they have the makings of a team that might still be in the lottery but may not be horrible (much like the Kings this year).

The 15/16 Nets only had 1 player (RHJ) that is currently on their team.  They turned it around very quickly and that is without any top tier lottery picks.  They used their expiring contracts and cap space, to land Russell, and then did very well drafting late in the draft.  They actually now have incentive to tank as they finally own their own picks, and yet they are currently a playoff team. 

There is always the risk on future picks as you just never know what a team will look like 2 seasons from now.  The Nets and Kings both turned it around very quickly by making some smart decisions and quite simply by just acquiring as many assets as they could.  And they both were correcting past blunders in that time (the Kings also wasted a lottery pick on Papa...).  Now maybe Memphis doesn't follow that sort of pattern and they are still terrible in 2 years, but they don't really have the incentive to be terrible in 2021 unless that pick has transferred before then
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: Sacramento Kings 2018-19 Season Watch Thread
« Reply #640 on: January 21, 2019, 04:47:51 PM »

Offline celticsclay

  • Reggie Lewis
  • ***************
  • Posts: 15739
  • Tommy Points: 1386
As I've said in the Memphis thread, I'm not so sure that pick rolling over is going to create any greater value.  What if they have a Kings or Nets type turn around when they unload Gasol and Conley for assets.  Or what if they land Zion this year and he is awesome right out the gate and they just keep getting better and better.  The 9th pick this year might end up being the best value that pick ever has.

What theoretical trades could you see them getting for Gasol and Conley that would allow them to turn it around next season? Conley has a 32 million dollar contract next year, and I think has 20k guaranteed the following season. He is also 31 so any rebuilding team is not going to want him. Is he even a positive trade asset? Gasol is 34 and has been really lousy the last month plus. If they got expiring contracts and a mid first round pick for either of those guys that would be a steal.

Then what is the rest of their roster that could take a leap? Obviously Jackson is a really nice piece, but I don't even know who their second best young player is? Kyle Anderson at 25? Dillon Brooks? It has to be one of the bleakest situations in the league right now.

Also I am honestly surprised as anyone by the Kings success, but they are at least doing it on the backs of high lottery picks in hield, fox and bagley and another lottery pick in WCS.
They don't have to turn it around next year as the pick is top 6 protected.  That gives them 2 years to acquire and add assets.  The Kings still had Cousins this time 2 seasons ago.  They turned it around basically in that time as very few players still remain from before that season and they were able to turn it around using the assets from that trade (and they never truly bottomed out and they still owed the Sixers a pick swap). 

So say they trade Gasol at the deadline and pick up a young player and a 1st round pick (not an elite young player, but say WCS quality level), which would be a fairly reasonable trade value wise.  Say they move Conley next summer and pick up another young player and a 2020 1st round pick.  Again that seems like a fairly reasonable trade.  So they would have 2 picks in 2019 and 2 picks in 2020, one of each would be a top 5 pick.  So entering the 20/21 season they would have Jackson, 2 other high level lottery picks, a couple of late 1st rounders, and whatever young players they get for Conley and Gasol.  They could also use their cap space as a dumping ground and pick up other assets.  That is the exact model the Kings followed.  If they do well in the lottery, those other 2 picks could be something like Zion Williamson and Anthony Edwards/Jaden McDaniels/Cole Anthony, put them with Jackson and some other young players, and they have the makings of a team that might still be in the lottery but may not be horrible (much like the Kings this year).

The 15/16 Nets only had 1 player (RHJ) that is currently on their team.  They turned it around very quickly and that is without any top tier lottery picks.  They used their expiring contracts and cap space, to land Russell, and then did very well drafting late in the draft.  They actually now have incentive to tank as they finally own their own picks, and yet they are currently a playoff team. 

There is always the risk on future picks as you just never know what a team will look like 2 seasons from now.  The Nets and Kings both turned it around very quickly by making some smart decisions and quite simply by just acquiring as many assets as they could.  And they both were correcting past blunders in that time (the Kings also wasted a lottery pick on Papa...).  Now maybe Memphis doesn't follow that sort of pattern and they are still terrible in 2 years, but they don't really have the incentive to be terrible in 2021 unless that pick has transferred before then

Are you sure that Memphis can risk trying to go 100% to finish bottom 6 in the draft next year? They are very close to the bottom of the league in attendance with two franchise icons this year. They are probably already candidate for relocation to Seattle. Gasol is not going to come back next year for one of the last years of his career to play for a lottery team (it has basically been hinted as much). So they will take whatever youngish prospect or late first they can get for him. I honestly don't what they can get for Conley if you look around the league he may not even be a top ten point guard and he is one of the most expensive players in the league. Maybe the knicks would give hardaway, kanter and niks for him to entice a free agent this offseason on their core. Maybe he can get Dennis Smith Junior and a late first instead? And that ends up with a pretty bad team... but there are still going to be a lot of bad teams next year. Are the Cavs, Bulls, Hawks, Suns all going to be awful again next year? I don't see a clear path to a leap for them. Maybe the Hornets lose Kemba and become a dumpster fire.. Maybe Pops retires and the Spurs enter a rebuild.

Also curious why you are saying the Nets or Kings turned around quickly. They were both lottery teams for quite a few years in a row (and may not be out of the lottery this year still)

Re: Sacramento Kings 2018-19 Season Watch Thread
« Reply #641 on: January 21, 2019, 05:51:17 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8113
  • Tommy Points: 549
As I've said in the Memphis thread, I'm not so sure that pick rolling over is going to create any greater value.  What if they have a Kings or Nets type turn around when they unload Gasol and Conley for assets.  Or what if they land Zion this year and he is awesome right out the gate and they just keep getting better and better.  The 9th pick this year might end up being the best value that pick ever has.

What theoretical trades could you see them getting for Gasol and Conley that would allow them to turn it around next season? Conley has a 32 million dollar contract next year, and I think has 20k guaranteed the following season. He is also 31 so any rebuilding team is not going to want him. Is he even a positive trade asset? Gasol is 34 and has been really lousy the last month plus. If they got expiring contracts and a mid first round pick for either of those guys that would be a steal.

Then what is the rest of their roster that could take a leap? Obviously Jackson is a really nice piece, but I don't even know who their second best young player is? Kyle Anderson at 25? Dillon Brooks? It has to be one of the bleakest situations in the league right now.

Also I am honestly surprised as anyone by the Kings success, but they are at least doing it on the backs of high lottery picks in hield, fox and bagley and another lottery pick in WCS.
They don't have to turn it around next year as the pick is top 6 protected.  That gives them 2 years to acquire and add assets.  The Kings still had Cousins this time 2 seasons ago.  They turned it around basically in that time as very few players still remain from before that season and they were able to turn it around using the assets from that trade (and they never truly bottomed out and they still owed the Sixers a pick swap). 

So say they trade Gasol at the deadline and pick up a young player and a 1st round pick (not an elite young player, but say WCS quality level), which would be a fairly reasonable trade value wise.  Say they move Conley next summer and pick up another young player and a 2020 1st round pick.  Again that seems like a fairly reasonable trade.  So they would have 2 picks in 2019 and 2 picks in 2020, one of each would be a top 5 pick.  So entering the 20/21 season they would have Jackson, 2 other high level lottery picks, a couple of late 1st rounders, and whatever young players they get for Conley and Gasol.  They could also use their cap space as a dumping ground and pick up other assets.  That is the exact model the Kings followed.  If they do well in the lottery, those other 2 picks could be something like Zion Williamson and Anthony Edwards/Jaden McDaniels/Cole Anthony, put them with Jackson and some other young players, and they have the makings of a team that might still be in the lottery but may not be horrible (much like the Kings this year).

The 15/16 Nets only had 1 player (RHJ) that is currently on their team.  They turned it around very quickly and that is without any top tier lottery picks.  They used their expiring contracts and cap space, to land Russell, and then did very well drafting late in the draft.  They actually now have incentive to tank as they finally own their own picks, and yet they are currently a playoff team. 

There is always the risk on future picks as you just never know what a team will look like 2 seasons from now.  The Nets and Kings both turned it around very quickly by making some smart decisions and quite simply by just acquiring as many assets as they could.  And they both were correcting past blunders in that time (the Kings also wasted a lottery pick on Papa...).  Now maybe Memphis doesn't follow that sort of pattern and they are still terrible in 2 years, but they don't really have the incentive to be terrible in 2021 unless that pick has transferred before then

Are you sure that Memphis can risk trying to go 100% to finish bottom 6 in the draft next year? They are very close to the bottom of the league in attendance with two franchise icons this year. They are probably already candidate for relocation to Seattle. Gasol is not going to come back next year for one of the last years of his career to play for a lottery team (it has basically been hinted as much). So they will take whatever youngish prospect or late first they can get for him. I honestly don't what they can get for Conley if you look around the league he may not even be a top ten point guard and he is one of the most expensive players in the league. Maybe the knicks would give hardaway, kanter and niks for him to entice a free agent this offseason on their core. Maybe he can get Dennis Smith Junior and a late first instead? And that ends up with a pretty bad team... but there are still going to be a lot of bad teams next year. Are the Cavs, Bulls, Hawks, Suns all going to be awful again next year? I don't see a clear path to a leap for them. Maybe the Hornets lose Kemba and become a dumpster fire.. Maybe Pops retires and the Spurs enter a rebuild.

Also curious why you are saying the Nets or Kings turned around quickly. They were both lottery teams for quite a few years in a row (and may not be out of the lottery this year still)
Memphis is 2nd worst in the West and tied for 6th worst overall and that's with Gasol and Conley playing all but one game.  They are not going to be any better next season and the West is probably going to be tougher.  As you point out, they are already at the bottom of the league in attendance.  Cashing out on Gasol and Conley and going to a younger team and switching to a more up tempo style may even increase their attendance. 

Re: Sacramento Kings 2018-19 Season Watch Thread
« Reply #642 on: January 21, 2019, 06:29:06 PM »

Offline Moranis

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33461
  • Tommy Points: 1533
As I've said in the Memphis thread, I'm not so sure that pick rolling over is going to create any greater value.  What if they have a Kings or Nets type turn around when they unload Gasol and Conley for assets.  Or what if they land Zion this year and he is awesome right out the gate and they just keep getting better and better.  The 9th pick this year might end up being the best value that pick ever has.

What theoretical trades could you see them getting for Gasol and Conley that would allow them to turn it around next season? Conley has a 32 million dollar contract next year, and I think has 20k guaranteed the following season. He is also 31 so any rebuilding team is not going to want him. Is he even a positive trade asset? Gasol is 34 and has been really lousy the last month plus. If they got expiring contracts and a mid first round pick for either of those guys that would be a steal.

Then what is the rest of their roster that could take a leap? Obviously Jackson is a really nice piece, but I don't even know who their second best young player is? Kyle Anderson at 25? Dillon Brooks? It has to be one of the bleakest situations in the league right now.

Also I am honestly surprised as anyone by the Kings success, but they are at least doing it on the backs of high lottery picks in hield, fox and bagley and another lottery pick in WCS.
They don't have to turn it around next year as the pick is top 6 protected.  That gives them 2 years to acquire and add assets.  The Kings still had Cousins this time 2 seasons ago.  They turned it around basically in that time as very few players still remain from before that season and they were able to turn it around using the assets from that trade (and they never truly bottomed out and they still owed the Sixers a pick swap). 

So say they trade Gasol at the deadline and pick up a young player and a 1st round pick (not an elite young player, but say WCS quality level), which would be a fairly reasonable trade value wise.  Say they move Conley next summer and pick up another young player and a 2020 1st round pick.  Again that seems like a fairly reasonable trade.  So they would have 2 picks in 2019 and 2 picks in 2020, one of each would be a top 5 pick.  So entering the 20/21 season they would have Jackson, 2 other high level lottery picks, a couple of late 1st rounders, and whatever young players they get for Conley and Gasol.  They could also use their cap space as a dumping ground and pick up other assets.  That is the exact model the Kings followed.  If they do well in the lottery, those other 2 picks could be something like Zion Williamson and Anthony Edwards/Jaden McDaniels/Cole Anthony, put them with Jackson and some other young players, and they have the makings of a team that might still be in the lottery but may not be horrible (much like the Kings this year).

The 15/16 Nets only had 1 player (RHJ) that is currently on their team.  They turned it around very quickly and that is without any top tier lottery picks.  They used their expiring contracts and cap space, to land Russell, and then did very well drafting late in the draft.  They actually now have incentive to tank as they finally own their own picks, and yet they are currently a playoff team. 

There is always the risk on future picks as you just never know what a team will look like 2 seasons from now.  The Nets and Kings both turned it around very quickly by making some smart decisions and quite simply by just acquiring as many assets as they could.  And they both were correcting past blunders in that time (the Kings also wasted a lottery pick on Papa...).  Now maybe Memphis doesn't follow that sort of pattern and they are still terrible in 2 years, but they don't really have the incentive to be terrible in 2021 unless that pick has transferred before then

Are you sure that Memphis can risk trying to go 100% to finish bottom 6 in the draft next year? They are very close to the bottom of the league in attendance with two franchise icons this year. They are probably already candidate for relocation to Seattle. Gasol is not going to come back next year for one of the last years of his career to play for a lottery team (it has basically been hinted as much). So they will take whatever youngish prospect or late first they can get for him. I honestly don't what they can get for Conley if you look around the league he may not even be a top ten point guard and he is one of the most expensive players in the league. Maybe the knicks would give hardaway, kanter and niks for him to entice a free agent this offseason on their core. Maybe he can get Dennis Smith Junior and a late first instead? And that ends up with a pretty bad team... but there are still going to be a lot of bad teams next year. Are the Cavs, Bulls, Hawks, Suns all going to be awful again next year? I don't see a clear path to a leap for them. Maybe the Hornets lose Kemba and become a dumpster fire.. Maybe Pops retires and the Spurs enter a rebuild.

Also curious why you are saying the Nets or Kings turned around quickly. They were both lottery teams for quite a few years in a row (and may not be out of the lottery this year still)
I told you why I said they turned it around quickly i.e. they have almost no players that were on their teams 2 years ago.  Sure they were bad for years but they both started over 2 seasons ago.

As Tazz points out Memphis is bad with Gasol and Conley.  They stent going to miraculously get better especially with the incentive to tank the rest if this year and next year.  I expect them to trade Gasol and Conley as there is no reason to keep them because they are bad and there attendance is crap anyway.  Might as well just start the reboot now.
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: Sacramento Kings 2018-19 Season Watch Thread
« Reply #643 on: January 21, 2019, 06:47:24 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8113
  • Tommy Points: 549
As I've said in the Memphis thread, I'm not so sure that pick rolling over is going to create any greater value.  What if they have a Kings or Nets type turn around when they unload Gasol and Conley for assets.  Or what if they land Zion this year and he is awesome right out the gate and they just keep getting better and better.  The 9th pick this year might end up being the best value that pick ever has.

What theoretical trades could you see them getting for Gasol and Conley that would allow them to turn it around next season? Conley has a 32 million dollar contract next year, and I think has 20k guaranteed the following season. He is also 31 so any rebuilding team is not going to want him. Is he even a positive trade asset? Gasol is 34 and has been really lousy the last month plus. If they got expiring contracts and a mid first round pick for either of those guys that would be a steal.

Then what is the rest of their roster that could take a leap? Obviously Jackson is a really nice piece, but I don't even know who their second best young player is? Kyle Anderson at 25? Dillon Brooks? It has to be one of the bleakest situations in the league right now.

Also I am honestly surprised as anyone by the Kings success, but they are at least doing it on the backs of high lottery picks in hield, fox and bagley and another lottery pick in WCS.
They don't have to turn it around next year as the pick is top 6 protected.  That gives them 2 years to acquire and add assets.  The Kings still had Cousins this time 2 seasons ago.  They turned it around basically in that time as very few players still remain from before that season and they were able to turn it around using the assets from that trade (and they never truly bottomed out and they still owed the Sixers a pick swap). 

So say they trade Gasol at the deadline and pick up a young player and a 1st round pick (not an elite young player, but say WCS quality level), which would be a fairly reasonable trade value wise.  Say they move Conley next summer and pick up another young player and a 2020 1st round pick.  Again that seems like a fairly reasonable trade.  So they would have 2 picks in 2019 and 2 picks in 2020, one of each would be a top 5 pick.  So entering the 20/21 season they would have Jackson, 2 other high level lottery picks, a couple of late 1st rounders, and whatever young players they get for Conley and Gasol.  They could also use their cap space as a dumping ground and pick up other assets.  That is the exact model the Kings followed.  If they do well in the lottery, those other 2 picks could be something like Zion Williamson and Anthony Edwards/Jaden McDaniels/Cole Anthony, put them with Jackson and some other young players, and they have the makings of a team that might still be in the lottery but may not be horrible (much like the Kings this year).

The 15/16 Nets only had 1 player (RHJ) that is currently on their team.  They turned it around very quickly and that is without any top tier lottery picks.  They used their expiring contracts and cap space, to land Russell, and then did very well drafting late in the draft.  They actually now have incentive to tank as they finally own their own picks, and yet they are currently a playoff team. 

There is always the risk on future picks as you just never know what a team will look like 2 seasons from now.  The Nets and Kings both turned it around very quickly by making some smart decisions and quite simply by just acquiring as many assets as they could.  And they both were correcting past blunders in that time (the Kings also wasted a lottery pick on Papa...).  Now maybe Memphis doesn't follow that sort of pattern and they are still terrible in 2 years, but they don't really have the incentive to be terrible in 2021 unless that pick has transferred before then

Are you sure that Memphis can risk trying to go 100% to finish bottom 6 in the draft next year? They are very close to the bottom of the league in attendance with two franchise icons this year. They are probably already candidate for relocation to Seattle. Gasol is not going to come back next year for one of the last years of his career to play for a lottery team (it has basically been hinted as much). So they will take whatever youngish prospect or late first they can get for him. I honestly don't what they can get for Conley if you look around the league he may not even be a top ten point guard and he is one of the most expensive players in the league. Maybe the knicks would give hardaway, kanter and niks for him to entice a free agent this offseason on their core. Maybe he can get Dennis Smith Junior and a late first instead? And that ends up with a pretty bad team... but there are still going to be a lot of bad teams next year. Are the Cavs, Bulls, Hawks, Suns all going to be awful again next year? I don't see a clear path to a leap for them. Maybe the Hornets lose Kemba and become a dumpster fire.. Maybe Pops retires and the Spurs enter a rebuild.

Also curious why you are saying the Nets or Kings turned around quickly. They were both lottery teams for quite a few years in a row (and may not be out of the lottery this year still)
I told you why I said they turned it around quickly i.e. they have almost no players that were on their teams 2 years ago.  Sure they were bad for years but they both started over 2 seasons ago.

As Tazz points out Memphis is bad with Gasol and Conley.  They stent going to miraculously get better especially with the incentive to tank the rest if this year and next year.  I expect them to trade Gasol and Conley as there is no reason to keep them because they are bad and there attendance is crap anyway.  Might as well just start the reboot now.
They're better off waiting to move Conley during the offseason.  He's going to look pretty good to teams that miss out on the top free agents.  Gasol is more difficult to move with that 25M player option.  I wouldn't expect much return for him unless they take back bad salary. 

Re: Sacramento Kings 2018-19 Season Watch Thread
« Reply #644 on: January 21, 2019, 06:48:02 PM »

Offline celticsclay

  • Reggie Lewis
  • ***************
  • Posts: 15739
  • Tommy Points: 1386
As I've said in the Memphis thread, I'm not so sure that pick rolling over is going to create any greater value.  What if they have a Kings or Nets type turn around when they unload Gasol and Conley for assets.  Or what if they land Zion this year and he is awesome right out the gate and they just keep getting better and better.  The 9th pick this year might end up being the best value that pick ever has.

What theoretical trades could you see them getting for Gasol and Conley that would allow them to turn it around next season? Conley has a 32 million dollar contract next year, and I think has 20k guaranteed the following season. He is also 31 so any rebuilding team is not going to want him. Is he even a positive trade asset? Gasol is 34 and has been really lousy the last month plus. If they got expiring contracts and a mid first round pick for either of those guys that would be a steal.

Then what is the rest of their roster that could take a leap? Obviously Jackson is a really nice piece, but I don't even know who their second best young player is? Kyle Anderson at 25? Dillon Brooks? It has to be one of the bleakest situations in the league right now.

Also I am honestly surprised as anyone by the Kings success, but they are at least doing it on the backs of high lottery picks in hield, fox and bagley and another lottery pick in WCS.
They don't have to turn it around next year as the pick is top 6 protected.  That gives them 2 years to acquire and add assets.  The Kings still had Cousins this time 2 seasons ago.  They turned it around basically in that time as very few players still remain from before that season and they were able to turn it around using the assets from that trade (and they never truly bottomed out and they still owed the Sixers a pick swap). 

So say they trade Gasol at the deadline and pick up a young player and a 1st round pick (not an elite young player, but say WCS quality level), which would be a fairly reasonable trade value wise.  Say they move Conley next summer and pick up another young player and a 2020 1st round pick.  Again that seems like a fairly reasonable trade.  So they would have 2 picks in 2019 and 2 picks in 2020, one of each would be a top 5 pick.  So entering the 20/21 season they would have Jackson, 2 other high level lottery picks, a couple of late 1st rounders, and whatever young players they get for Conley and Gasol.  They could also use their cap space as a dumping ground and pick up other assets.  That is the exact model the Kings followed.  If they do well in the lottery, those other 2 picks could be something like Zion Williamson and Anthony Edwards/Jaden McDaniels/Cole Anthony, put them with Jackson and some other young players, and they have the makings of a team that might still be in the lottery but may not be horrible (much like the Kings this year).

The 15/16 Nets only had 1 player (RHJ) that is currently on their team.  They turned it around very quickly and that is without any top tier lottery picks.  They used their expiring contracts and cap space, to land Russell, and then did very well drafting late in the draft.  They actually now have incentive to tank as they finally own their own picks, and yet they are currently a playoff team. 

There is always the risk on future picks as you just never know what a team will look like 2 seasons from now.  The Nets and Kings both turned it around very quickly by making some smart decisions and quite simply by just acquiring as many assets as they could.  And they both were correcting past blunders in that time (the Kings also wasted a lottery pick on Papa...).  Now maybe Memphis doesn't follow that sort of pattern and they are still terrible in 2 years, but they don't really have the incentive to be terrible in 2021 unless that pick has transferred before then

Are you sure that Memphis can risk trying to go 100% to finish bottom 6 in the draft next year? They are very close to the bottom of the league in attendance with two franchise icons this year. They are probably already candidate for relocation to Seattle. Gasol is not going to come back next year for one of the last years of his career to play for a lottery team (it has basically been hinted as much). So they will take whatever youngish prospect or late first they can get for him. I honestly don't what they can get for Conley if you look around the league he may not even be a top ten point guard and he is one of the most expensive players in the league. Maybe the knicks would give hardaway, kanter and niks for him to entice a free agent this offseason on their core. Maybe he can get Dennis Smith Junior and a late first instead? And that ends up with a pretty bad team... but there are still going to be a lot of bad teams next year. Are the Cavs, Bulls, Hawks, Suns all going to be awful again next year? I don't see a clear path to a leap for them. Maybe the Hornets lose Kemba and become a dumpster fire.. Maybe Pops retires and the Spurs enter a rebuild.

Also curious why you are saying the Nets or Kings turned around quickly. They were both lottery teams for quite a few years in a row (and may not be out of the lottery this year still)
I told you why I said they turned it around quickly i.e. they have almost no players that were on their teams 2 years ago.  Sure they were bad for years but they both started over 2 seasons ago.



It is certainly possible they tank next year, but even if they do it is not an absolute science. There will most likely be a bunch of other tanking teams with clear candidates like Chicago, Atlanta, Charlotte, Phoenix etc to be very bad. There will also probably be some teams like the Clippers or Knicks that strike out in free agency and end up pretty bad. Also, we are not getting the pick this year barring something really weird happening, so we may as well get happy about it for next year.