Answer Me This!

[Roy Hobbs]

just to add one more baseball puzzle question...

is it possible for the same pitcher to be both the winning and losing pitcher in the same game?

think carefully.

Um...  no.  There can be only one winning pitcher, and one losing pitcher, in each game, and they have to come from different teams.

I'm sure there's some trick to this, but at least upon common understanding, I'm not sure how this is possible.

(For a pitcher to be the "losing pitcher", his team must have lost.  For a pitcher to be "winning pitcher", his team must have won.  I guess you could have a situation like the George Brett game, and a pitcher who had won the game initially, loses it when the game is resumed under protest.  However, only one of those results goes into the record books.)

[hwangjini_1]

just to add one more baseball puzzle question...

is it possible for the same pitcher to be both the winning and losing pitcher in the same game?

think carefully.

Um...  no.  There can be only one winning pitcher, and one losing pitcher, in each game, and they have to come from different teams.

I'm sure there's some trick to this, but at least upon common understanding, I'm not sure how this is possible.

(For a pitcher to be the "losing pitcher", his team must have lost.  For a pitcher to be "winning pitcher", his team must have won.  I guess you could have a situation like the George Brett game, and a pitcher who had won the game initially, loses it when the game is resumed under protest.  However, only one of those results goes into the record books.)

yes, there must be different winning TEAMS. but what if there were to be a rain delay, and during that time team A traded.....

[Roy Hobbs]

Eh...  maybe in the case of a suspended game, that is resumed later.  If a pitcher had been traded from one team to the other before the game was completed, he could potentially pitch for both sides, although I'm not actually sure if that's allowed.

Even if it was, how does the pitcher factor into both decisions?  I can see it potentially in the National League, but could it happen in the American League without the pitcher hitting?

[hwangjini_1]

Eh...  maybe in the case of a suspended game, that is resumed later.  If a pitcher had been traded from one team to the other before the game was completed, he could potentially pitch for both sides, although I'm not actually sure if that's allowed.

Even if it was, how does the pitcher factor into both decisions?  I can see it potentially in the National League, but could it happen in the American League without the pitcher hitting?

pitching decisions are given to pitchers for their pitching in both the NL and AL. and, no rule disallows a pitcher from pitching for a team of which he is a member. there is at least one case of a player being traded between games of a double header and playing in both games.

so, keep going...

[Roy Hobbs]

Eh...  maybe in the case of a suspended game, that is resumed later.  If a pitcher had been traded from one team to the other before the game was completed, he could potentially pitch for both sides, although I'm not actually sure if that's allowed.

Even if it was, how does the pitcher factor into both decisions?  I can see it potentially in the National League, but could it happen in the American League without the pitcher hitting?

pitching decisions are given to pitchers for their pitching in both the NL and AL. and, no rule disallows a pitcher from pitching for a team of which he is a member. there is at least one case of a player being traded between games of a double header and playing in both games.

so, keep going...

I still don't see how it's possible.  You're going to have to map out the situation for me.

Scenario 1:

Tie Game.  Game is suspended in the 7th inning with the pitcher having given up on baserunner.

Pitcher is traded to opposing team.  Game resumes.  Pitcher's new team scores a run.  Inning over, Pitcher now takes over pitching for his new team.

In that case, "Pitcher" is eligible for a Loss, but he doesn't get a Win.  The Win would go to whoever had pitched the last inning, not the pitcher who took over after his team got the lead.

Now, if the go-ahead run scores as a result of somebody pinch hitting for the pitcher, I'm not sure how that affects things.  I still think the W goes to the guy who pitched the last inning, regardless of whether he is lifted for a pinch hitter before his team takes the lead.

Please, map this out for me further.  I see how a pitcher can get a loss and a save in the same game, but not a loss and a win.

[Steve Weinman]

Eh...  maybe in the case of a suspended game, that is resumed later.  If a pitcher had been traded from one team to the other before the game was completed, he could potentially pitch for both sides, although I'm not actually sure if that's allowed.

Even if it was, how does the pitcher factor into both decisions?  I can see it potentially in the National League, but could it happen in the American League without the pitcher hitting?

pitching decisions are given to pitchers for their pitching in both the NL and AL. and, no rule disallows a pitcher from pitching for a team of which he is a member. there is at least one case of a player being traded between games of a double header and playing in both games.

so, keep going...

  I still think the W goes to the guy who pitched the last inning, regardless of whether he is lifted for a pinch hitter before his team takes the lead.

Absolutely correct.

-sw

[Roy Hobbs]

Eh...  maybe in the case of a suspended game, that is resumed later.  If a pitcher had been traded from one team to the other before the game was completed, he could potentially pitch for both sides, although I'm not actually sure if that's allowed.

Even if it was, how does the pitcher factor into both decisions?  I can see it potentially in the National League, but could it happen in the American League without the pitcher hitting?

pitching decisions are given to pitchers for their pitching in both the NL and AL. and, no rule disallows a pitcher from pitching for a team of which he is a member. there is at least one case of a player being traded between games of a double header and playing in both games.

so, keep going...

  I still think the W goes to the guy who pitched the last inning, regardless of whether he is lifted for a pinch hitter before his team takes the lead.

Absolutely correct.

-sw

Thanks for clearing that up for an American League guy.

[Redz]

He could start the game and pitch less than 5 innings for the losing team and take a loss. Have the game be suspended and be traded to the other team and enter as a reliever in a game where the starter failed to go five innings and be awarded the win if the official scorer merits him worthy (the starter must go 5 innings to qualify for a win).

[Steve Weinman]

Eh...  maybe in the case of a suspended game, that is resumed later.  If a pitcher had been traded from one team to the other before the game was completed, he could potentially pitch for both sides, although I'm not actually sure if that's allowed.

Even if it was, how does the pitcher factor into both decisions?  I can see it potentially in the National League, but could it happen in the American League without the pitcher hitting?

pitching decisions are given to pitchers for their pitching in both the NL and AL. and, no rule disallows a pitcher from pitching for a team of which he is a member. there is at least one case of a player being traded between games of a double header and playing in both games.

so, keep going...

  I still think the W goes to the guy who pitched the last inning, regardless of whether he is lifted for a pinch hitter before his team takes the lead.

Absolutely correct.

-sw

Here's the only sort of scenario in which I could see it...

Tie game suspended after five innings.  Pitcher X has pitched five innings for the road team.  Pitcher X traded in the interim before the completion of the game.  Gives up a run in the top of the sixth for the home team.  No further scoring occurs.  Pitcher X gets the W for the road team (as per Roy's explanation above) and the L for the home team.

Obviously, which team wins the game could be reversed if the game was stopped between halves of an inning, and of course, this could happen in any inning after the fifth -- that was just for the sake of the example.  But that's the only way I see it.

-sw

[Steve Weinman]

Eh...  maybe in the case of a suspended game, that is resumed later.  If a pitcher had been traded from one team to the other before the game was completed, he could potentially pitch for both sides, although I'm not actually sure if that's allowed.

Even if it was, how does the pitcher factor into both decisions?  I can see it potentially in the National League, but could it happen in the American League without the pitcher hitting?

pitching decisions are given to pitchers for their pitching in both the NL and AL. and, no rule disallows a pitcher from pitching for a team of which he is a member. there is at least one case of a player being traded between games of a double header and playing in both games.

so, keep going...

  I still think the W goes to the guy who pitched the last inning, regardless of whether he is lifted for a pinch hitter before his team takes the lead.

Absolutely correct.

-sw

Thanks for clearing that up for an American League guy.

Anytime, good sir.  AL scrub 

-sw

[Redz]

He could start the game and pitch less than 5 innings for the losing team and take a loss. Have the game be suspended and be traded to the other team and enter as a reliever in a game where the starter failed to go five innings and be awarded the win if the official scorer merits him worthy (the starter must go 5 innings to qualify for a win).

Hey!  Don't pass me by here.  This ridiculous scenario actually works

[Steve Weinman]

He could start the game and pitch less than 5 innings for the losing team and take a loss. Have the game be suspended and be traded to the other team and enter as a reliever in a game where the starter failed to go five innings and be awarded the win if the official scorer merits him worthy (the starter must go 5 innings to qualify for a win).

Hey!  Don't pass me by here.  This ridiculous scenario actually works

Oh my bad, Redz...I think I missed that while I was posting mine...fair enough on the 'official scorer' loophole...I enjoyed seeing one of the Dodgers 'vulture' pitchers get bopped on that ruling the other day...

-sw

[Roy Hobbs]

Yeah, I think your scenario works, Steve.  I'm not sure why I overlooked that the first time I considered it.

As for your scenario, Redz, why does it matter if he went 5 innings or less for the losing team?  The same scenario could pay out if, say, he pitched seven innings, so long as the game was suspended, right?  (In fact, the 5 innings or less thing is complicating, because for the game to be suspended at all, doesn't it have to have gone at least 5 innings?  Or is it 4.5?)

[Redz]

Yeah, I think your scenario works, Steve.  I'm not sure why I overlooked that the first time I considered it.

As for your scenario, Redz, why does it matter if he went 5 innings or less for the losing team?  The same scenario could pay out if, say, he pitched seven innings, so long as the game was suspended, right?  (In fact, the 5 innings or less thing is complicating, because for the game to be suspended at all, doesn't it have to have gone at least 5 innings?  Or is it 4.5?)

Yeh, I guess he wouldn't have had to have pitched less than 5 for the winning team, but it would make it more likely that he would be award the pitcher of record for the winning if he pitched a significant amount of innings after the starter left the game before he was eligible to be the winning pitcher of record.  I guess the key would be for him to be traded from the losing team and not have the lead change hands and have the other scenario with the starter leaving early from the winning team (leaving the winning pitcher as a judgment call for the scorer)

[Redz]

He could start the game and pitch less than 5 innings for the losing team and take a loss. Have the game be suspended and be traded to the other team and enter as a reliever in a game where the starter failed to go five innings and be awarded the win if the official scorer merits him worthy (the starter must go 5 innings to qualify for a win).

Hey!  Don't pass me by here.  This ridiculous scenario actually works

Oh my bad, Redz...I think I missed that while I was posting mine...fair enough on the 'official scorer' loophole...I enjoyed seeing one of the Dodgers 'vulture' pitchers get bopped on that ruling the other day...

-sw

No problem Steve, I was just so busy patting myself on the back here (between solving the riddle and simultaneously successfully installing a new printer, I'm pretty flippin' pleased with myself right now ).

It's been a long day...week actually