Author Topic: What's wrong with Grant Williams?  (Read 7042 times)

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Re: What's wrong with Grant Williams?
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2021, 09:27:38 AM »

Offline CFAN38

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Last year it was about a 55/45 split at PF vs center.  This year it’s closer to 85/15 at PF.  I personally think his best position is a small-ball 5, and he’s barely playing that position this year.

Could be tough going forward for him in the future if Thompson is kept in the offseason, but at the same time maybe he’ll have time in the offseason (which didn’t really exist last year) to work on being a PF instead. 

Also, the sophomore slump is a very real phenomenon.

I agree the lack of time at the 5 has hurt him this season. I was surprised to check his stats and see that he is actually shooting better then last season. I fear that Grant may have hit the "low ceiling" that is the worry when teams draft older more polished college players.   
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Re: What's wrong with Grant Williams?
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2021, 09:29:10 AM »

Offline Celtics2021

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This is some surface level analysis that I'm blaming on it being 6:50 am. In addition to the "out of position" discussion that has been touched on, Grant appears to have regressed dramatically in his decision making. In other words, he's often making dumb plays out there.

Last year he was on the floor against the Raptors in Game 7 because he could be trusted to make the smart play on offense and rotate on defense. This year it's very common to see Grant "try to do too much" and turn it over on offense (horrible passes, failing to catch good passes, being in the wrong spot and causing a teammate to turn it over, airballing floaters, etc.) or simply make bad defensive plays (missing rotations, taking what he thinks are "smart fouls" to stop transitions/layups while ignoring the amount of team fouls, etc.)

The long and short of my point is that he's not playing smart this season. Maybe it's a lack of focus, but at this point the game should be slowing down for him and it clearly isn't.

I agree with this. Guessing, but he seems to get up in his head a lot. Like he’s lost confidence and is doubting himself, so he overthinks, overreacts to his mistakes.
It takes him a few minutes to get comfortable but he is not in there long enough. When he has starts he has done well but that has been awhile. AS the other poster says he needs to emulate PJ Tucker. His corner three needs to rise to higher level too. LIke PJ.

He's shooting 46% from the corners.  It's probably the only thing he's done well this year.  The problem is he doesn't get enough looks from there.

Re: What's wrong with Grant Williams?
« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2021, 09:32:36 AM »

Offline Celtics2021

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Last year it was about a 55/45 split at PF vs center.  This year it’s closer to 85/15 at PF.  I personally think his best position is a small-ball 5, and he’s barely playing that position this year.

Could be tough going forward for him in the future if Thompson is kept in the offseason, but at the same time maybe he’ll have time in the offseason (which didn’t really exist last year) to work on being a PF instead. 

Also, the sophomore slump is a very real phenomenon.

I agree the lack of time at the 5 has hurt him this season. I was surprised to check his stats and see that he is actually shooting better then last season. I fear that Grant may have hit the "low ceiling" that is the worry when teams draft older more polished college players.   

He's not that old.  He's only 22, and was 20 when he was drafted.  He started college when he was 17, so he had three years of experience, unlike a lot of prospects these days who start college at 19 and are drafted at age 20 with one year of experience.

Re: What's wrong with Grant Williams?
« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2021, 10:02:19 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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This is some surface level analysis that I'm blaming on it being 6:50 am. In addition to the "out of position" discussion that has been touched on, Grant appears to have regressed dramatically in his decision making. In other words, he's often making dumb plays out there.

Last year he was on the floor against the Raptors in Game 7 because he could be trusted to make the smart play on offense and rotate on defense. This year it's very common to see Grant "try to do too much" and turn it over on offense (horrible passes, failing to catch good passes, being in the wrong spot and causing a teammate to turn it over, airballing floaters, etc.) or simply make bad defensive plays (missing rotations, taking what he thinks are "smart fouls" to stop transitions/layups while ignoring the amount of team fouls, etc.)

The long and short of my point is that he's not playing smart this season. Maybe it's a lack of focus, but at this point the game should be slowing down for him and it clearly isn't.
this is probably the best description of his play this year.   he came in last year playing smart ball.  this year, it's the complete opposite.

Re: What's wrong with Grant Williams?
« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2021, 11:52:33 AM »

Offline Goldstar88

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6’5” PF/C with average shooting and poor athleticism. Not a good combination. This was a really bad 1st round pick. Just as bad as the dancing bear selection.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2021, 01:27:19 PM by Goldstar88 »
Quoting Nick from the now locked Ime thread:
Quote
At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.

Re: What's wrong with Grant Williams?
« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2021, 11:58:07 AM »

Offline Goldstar88

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This is some surface level analysis that I'm blaming on it being 6:50 am. In addition to the "out of position" discussion that has been touched on, Grant appears to have regressed dramatically in his decision making. In other words, he's often making dumb plays out there.

Last year he was on the floor against the Raptors in Game 7 because he could be trusted to make the smart play on offense and rotate on defense. This year it's very common to see Grant "try to do too much" and turn it over on offense (horrible passes, failing to catch good passes, being in the wrong spot and causing a teammate to turn it over, airballing floaters, etc.) or simply make bad defensive plays (missing rotations, taking what he thinks are "smart fouls" to stop transitions/layups while ignoring the amount of team fouls, etc.)

The long and short of my point is that he's not playing smart this season. Maybe it's a lack of focus, but at this point the game should be slowing down for him and it clearly isn't.

I agree with this. Guessing, but he seems to get up in his head a lot. Like he’s lost confidence and is doubting himself, so he overthinks, overreacts to his mistakes.
It takes him a few minutes to get comfortable but he is not in there long enough. When he has starts he has done well but that has been awhile. AS the other poster says he needs to emulate PJ Tucker. His corner three needs to rise to higher level too. LIke PJ.

He’s never going to be a PJ Tucker type. They are the same height and they both shoot corners 3’s, but PJ Is a much better defender at 35 than Grant will ever be. Tucker is on a different level with his lateral quickness and athleticism.
Grant will never have that
Quoting Nick from the now locked Ime thread:
Quote
At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.

Re: What's wrong with Grant Williams?
« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2021, 12:00:10 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I think the thing is that Grant is just not able to play anything like the style and role that he had in college. 

Last year it didn't matter so much because the team typically had more scoring and shooting talent on the floor with him.

Now Grant is playing in more lineups that lack scoring and shot creation apart from maybe one of the Jays.
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Re: What's wrong with Grant Williams?
« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2021, 12:51:11 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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I agree the lack of time at the 5 has hurt him this season.

He is too slow to guard anything else, trouble is though he is not a good small ball ball.   Most fives abuse him.

1) he does not rebound
2) he can't rim protect
3) he does not have much length
4) production is poor for minutes played
5) useless at any shot save a post up on a guard or wide open three.
6) WE ARE A BETTER TEAM WHEN HE DOES NOT PLAY A LOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote
Last year he was on the floor against the Raptors in Game 7 because he could be trusted to make the smart play on offense and rotate on defense. This year it's very common to see Grant "try to do too much" and turn it over on offense (horrible passes, failing to catch good passes, being in the wrong spot and causing a teammate to turn it over, airballing floaters, etc.) or simply make bad defensive plays (missing rotations, taking what he thinks are "smart fouls" to stop transitions/layups while ignoring the amount of team fouls, etc.)

There was a few games ago where he made some deft passes I thought.  But all the above problems still existed.   A lot of times guys foul because they can't keep up.

Nothing is wrong with him, it is not his fault,  this is who he is folks. If he playing large amount of minutes against NBA starters and good bench players he is going to be exposed.

As for being in his head,  I don't think confidence can make a guy a better Athlete.   Instead, he needs to embrace what he is and needs to be an effort player.    He needs to play hard and smart every play if he is going to make it in this league.   Instead of getting down when he air balls a layup or get swapped come right back at them harder.  He needs to bang a bunch and make guys not want to challenge him and use his body to play tough and make contact anytime he can.   Set bone jarring picks and play hard all the time.   He also needs to  quit whining so much to the refs.

Re: What's wrong with Grant Williams?
« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2021, 02:01:18 PM »

Offline Who

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He looks so discombobulated on the floor this season. Did have covid? Is he hurt? He had a decent rookie year but now looks totally unplayable.
The league keeps getting smaller and quicker & Grant Williams does not fit this league. He is a tweener big man PF/C rather than a true forward (by today's standards of SF & SF/PF but no PF). He simply isn't quick enough dynamic enough athletically or skill-wise to play forward. And is too small and ground bound to play much at the center position.

Basically, he is just not a good basketball player.

The league has moved on from guys like him. In a previous era, he would have made a fine backup PF and could have had a Clarence Weatherspoon type career. But those guys no longer exist in today's NBA. Grant Williams is a dinosaur from times gone by.

He needs to be jettisoned this summer. No future for him - here or anywhere else in the league.

Re: What's wrong with Grant Williams?
« Reply #24 on: May 06, 2021, 02:35:40 PM »

Offline Sophomore

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He looks so discombobulated on the floor this season. Did have covid? Is he hurt? He had a decent rookie year but now looks totally unplayable.
The league keeps getting smaller and quicker & Grant Williams does not fit this league. He is a tweener big man PF/C rather than a true forward (by today's standards of SF & SF/PF but no PF). He simply isn't quick enough dynamic enough athletically or skill-wise to play forward. And is too small and ground bound to play much at the center position.

Basically, he is just not a good basketball player.

The league has moved on from guys like him. In a previous era, he would have made a fine backup PF and could have had a Clarence Weatherspoon type career. But those guys no longer exist in today's NBA. Grant Williams is a dinosaur from times gone by.

He needs to be jettisoned this summer. No future for him - here or anywhere else in the league.

I can’t disagree with any of this based on this year’s play. I’m just puzzled by the disappearance of the signs I saw last year that he would be better. That game 7 outing against Toronto last year is definitely exhibit A. VanVleet got isolated into Grant at the end of the game and Grant stayed in front of him and, to my eye, actually got a finger on the shot. And while he wasn’t Tony Allen I thought I saw him do a decent job staying in front of players fairly often, being in the right place as a team defender. That’s mostly gone this year. Even recognizing the limits on his abilities, he doesn’t seem to be maximizing the talent he has.

Re: What's wrong with Grant Williams?
« Reply #25 on: May 06, 2021, 04:36:20 PM »

Offline CFAN38

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Last year it was about a 55/45 split at PF vs center.  This year it’s closer to 85/15 at PF.  I personally think his best position is a small-ball 5, and he’s barely playing that position this year.

Could be tough going forward for him in the future if Thompson is kept in the offseason, but at the same time maybe he’ll have time in the offseason (which didn’t really exist last year) to work on being a PF instead. 

Also, the sophomore slump is a very real phenomenon.

I agree the lack of time at the 5 has hurt him this season. I was surprised to check his stats and see that he is actually shooting better then last season. I fear that Grant may have hit the "low ceiling" that is the worry when teams draft older more polished college players.   

He's not that old.  He's only 22, and was 20 when he was drafted.  He started college when he was 17, so he had three years of experience, unlike a lot of prospects these days who start college at 19 and are drafted at age 20 with one year of experience.

True older wasn’t the best choice of words but he was drafted as a higher floor slower ceiling type prospect that this may prove to be true.
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Re: What's wrong with Grant Williams?
« Reply #26 on: May 06, 2021, 05:02:03 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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He looks so discombobulated on the floor this season. Did have covid? Is he hurt? He had a decent rookie year but now looks totally unplayable.
The league keeps getting smaller and quicker & Grant Williams does not fit this league. He is a tweener big man PF/C rather than a true forward (by today's standards of SF & SF/PF but no PF). He simply isn't quick enough dynamic enough athletically or skill-wise to play forward. And is too small and ground bound to play much at the center position.

Basically, he is just not a good basketball player.

The league has moved on from guys like him. In a previous era, he would have made a fine backup PF and could have had a Clarence Weatherspoon type career. But those guys no longer exist in today's NBA. Grant Williams is a dinosaur from times gone by.

He needs to be jettisoned this summer. No future for him - here or anywhere else in the league.

I can’t disagree with any of this based on this year’s play. I’m just puzzled by the disappearance of the signs I saw last year that he would be better. That game 7 outing against Toronto last year is definitely exhibit A. VanVleet got isolated into Grant at the end of the game and Grant stayed in front of him and, to my eye, actually got a finger on the shot. And while he wasn’t Tony Allen I thought I saw him do a decent job staying in front of players fairly often, being in the right place as a team defender. That’s mostly gone this year. Even recognizing the limits on his abilities, he doesn’t seem to be maximizing the talent he has.


The trouble is that by and large even last year, despite being impressively good at staying in front of smaller players, Grant rarely really makes an impact on the ball, and he's not long enough or quick enough to be particularly great at closing out on shooters.  He's not springy enough to compete on the boards despite often being in good position, and he's not strong enough or tall enough to be very good at finishing inside even when he's got a mismatch.


As Who said .... he's just not very good at anything.
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Re: What's wrong with Grant Williams?
« Reply #27 on: May 06, 2021, 10:31:07 PM »

Offline PAOBoston

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What’s wrong with Grant Williams is he quite simply is just not good at basketball.

Re: What's wrong with Grant Williams?
« Reply #28 on: May 07, 2021, 12:04:55 AM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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What’s wrong with Grant Williams is he quite simply is just not good at bask
etball.



 Hes 6'4" and shrinking fast. He looks smaller than Brian Stith when he was on the three point line. Tps to me if u remember Stith for the celtics , he was actually pretty good.

Re: What's wrong with Grant Williams?
« Reply #29 on: May 07, 2021, 12:51:17 AM »

Offline gouki88

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What’s wrong with Grant Williams is he quite simply is just not good at bask
etball.



 Hes 6'4" and shrinking fast. He looks smaller than Brian Stith when he was on the three point line. Tps to me if u remember Stith for the celtics , he was actually pretty good.
I love how in almost every post that is disparaging of Grant he's a different height. He seems to shrink as the months go by
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