Washington just signed Ryan Hollins -- they're desperate at C

[ssspence]

Good idea, but they'd want more than an expiring Zeller and 2nd round pick.
They'd ask for Zeller+James Young+ 1 or 2 second round picks.

The other option is sending them Amir and Jerebko and taking back NeNe +Oubre.

A great prospect and we give Mickey some minutes.
We'd lose at least 5 more games though losing Amir inside.

Why would they expect to get more than the mid first round pick (Zeller) and the 31st pick in next year's draft, for a mid first round pick? It's not like Zeller hasn't proven he can play, that he's durable, and that he can run the floor pretty well for his size.

Because they are giving up the best player/asset in the deal in Oubre and wouldn't be getting anywhere near enough in return. Tyler Zeller is worth *maybe* two 2nd rounders at most.

Would you give up Kelly Oubre for an expiring Zeller and late pick?

Depends on how I (Washington) felt about Oubre's upside, and how concerned I might be about my team's ability to compete this year under the circumstances.

Oubre may be the best asset in the deal -- maybe -- but he's not the best player in the deal. Zeller's shown he's an efficient 7 footer when given minutes, and he fits their system very well. Oubre's barely played. He's 19 -- relying on him to produce this year is pretty shaky.

Meanwhile, under the current CBA the (likely) first pick in the 2nd round is arguably more valuable than late 1sts. It's a nice asset. Also under the current CBA, the Wiz could potentially sign Durant this summer before resigning Zeller to a long term deal -- just as they plan to do with Beal.

So bottom line: if I needed a center now (for reason the OP suggests) over a wing that plays KD's position later, yep i'd strongly consider the deal.

[MikeJelly]

Im extremely for this. If Washington says Yes then I take the deal and run. Thats essentially getting a first rounder (Better than our pick last year) for Zeller and a Second.

My only worry is that Oubre wouldn't get any playing time. He's a SG/SF. Our Depth chart at that position looks like this:

SG: Smart, AB, Hunter
SF: Crowder, Turner, Young

Meaning that if we did pick him up, he would essentially be doing the same thing is Zeller. SITTING ON THE BENCH.

If we have a nice consolidation move in place (3 for 1) then getting Oubre would be a great side deal. I still think the kid can be good, just needs the right coach

[chambers]

Good idea, but they'd want more than an expiring Zeller and 2nd round pick.
They'd ask for Zeller+James Young+ 1 or 2 second round picks.

The other option is sending them Amir and Jerebko and taking back NeNe +Oubre.

A great prospect and we give Mickey some minutes.
We'd lose at least 5 more games though losing Amir inside.

Why would they expect to get more than the mid first round pick (Zeller) and the 31st pick in next year's draft, for a mid first round pick? It's not like Zeller hasn't proven he can play, that he's durable, and that he can run the floor pretty well for his size.

Because they are giving up the best player/asset in the deal in Oubre and wouldn't be getting anywhere near enough in return. Tyler Zeller is worth *maybe* two 2nd rounders at most.

Would you give up Kelly Oubre for an expiring Zeller and late pick?

Depends on how I (Washington) felt about Oubre's upside, and how concerned I might be about my team's ability to compete this year under the circumstances.

Oubre may be the best asset in the deal -- maybe -- but he's not the best player in the deal. Zeller's shown he's an efficient 7 footer when given minutes, and he fits their system very well. Oubre's barely played. He's 19 -- relying on him to produce this year is pretty shaky.

Meanwhile, under the current CBA the (likely) first pick in the 2nd round is arguably more valuable than late 1sts. It's a nice asset. Also under the current CBA, the Wiz could potentially sign Durant this summer before resigning Zeller to a long term deal -- just as they plan to do with Beal.

So bottom line: if I needed a center now (for reason the OP suggests) over a wing that plays KD's position later, yep i'd strongly consider the deal.

You're overvaluing Zeller and undervaluing Oubre.
Who gives up an expiring big man who doesn't even start on the current Celtics squad for their just drafted 15th pick?
If Zeller were a Mozgov or even Kosta Koufos level talent then maybe in some parallel universe they might not hang up the phone laughing. Heck if he had another year before RFA then yeah, they'd at least listen...But he's not, and he doesn't- and if we were lucky, we'd get a few 2nd round picks for him.

It's simple, Washington are simply not desperate enough that they'd trade away their rookie #15 pick for a mediocre back up big man and a 2nd round pick.

They'd go after a wondering unsigned big man, say, Ryan Hollins, for example.

[chambers]

Im extremely for this. If Washington says Yes then I take the deal and run. Thats essentially getting a first rounder (Better than our pick last year) for Zeller and a Second.

My only worry is that Oubre wouldn't get any playing time. He's a SG/SF. Our Depth chart at that position looks like this:

SG: Smart, AB, Hunter
SF: Crowder, Turner, Young

Meaning that if we did pick him up, he would essentially be doing the same thing is Zeller. SITTING ON THE BENCH.

If we have a nice consolidation move in place (3 for 1) then getting Oubre would be a great side deal. I still think the kid can be good, just needs the right coach

Well the main reason you'd take Oubre is because of his youth and his contract+years under control. Zeller is a restricted free agent this offseason.

Even if Oubre sits on the bench, we'd still have him for 3 more years under rookie contract.

[chambers]

Washington fans seem to be loving Jared Sullinger.

I wonder if Ainge wants Sully long term or if he'd spin him for someone like Oubre.

[MikeJelly]

Washington fans seem to be loving Jared Sullinger.

I wonder if Ainge wants Sully long term or if he'd spin him for someone like Oubre.

Sully for Oubre wouldnt be a good deal unless Sully forces his way out. Sully has been playing very very well and seems to be reenergized.

[ssspence]

Good idea, but they'd want more than an expiring Zeller and 2nd round pick.
They'd ask for Zeller+James Young+ 1 or 2 second round picks.

The other option is sending them Amir and Jerebko and taking back NeNe +Oubre.

A great prospect and we give Mickey some minutes.
We'd lose at least 5 more games though losing Amir inside.

Why would they expect to get more than the mid first round pick (Zeller) and the 31st pick in next year's draft, for a mid first round pick? It's not like Zeller hasn't proven he can play, that he's durable, and that he can run the floor pretty well for his size.

Because they are giving up the best player/asset in the deal in Oubre and wouldn't be getting anywhere near enough in return. Tyler Zeller is worth *maybe* two 2nd rounders at most.

Would you give up Kelly Oubre for an expiring Zeller and late pick?

Depends on how I (Washington) felt about Oubre's upside, and how concerned I might be about my team's ability to compete this year under the circumstances.

Oubre may be the best asset in the deal -- maybe -- but he's not the best player in the deal. Zeller's shown he's an efficient 7 footer when given minutes, and he fits their system very well. Oubre's barely played. He's 19 -- relying on him to produce this year is pretty shaky.

Meanwhile, under the current CBA the (likely) first pick in the 2nd round is arguably more valuable than late 1sts. It's a nice asset. Also under the current CBA, the Wiz could potentially sign Durant this summer before resigning Zeller to a long term deal -- just as they plan to do with Beal.

So bottom line: if I needed a center now (for reason the OP suggests) over a wing that plays KD's position later, yep i'd strongly consider the deal.

You're overvaluing Zeller and undervaluing Oubre.
Who gives up an expiring big man who doesn't even start on the current Celtics squad for their just drafted 15th pick?
If Zeller were a Mozgov or even Kosta Koufos level talent then maybe in some parallel universe they might not hang up the phone laughing. Heck if he had another year before RFA then yeah, they'd at least listen...But he's not, and he doesn't- and if we were lucky, we'd get a few 2nd round picks for him.

It's simple, Washington are simply not desperate enough that they'd trade away their rookie #15 pick for a mediocre back up big man and a 2nd round pick.

They'd go after a wondering unsigned big man, say, Ryan Hollins, for example.

I'm creating an objective POV. I understand that Oubre is not more valuable than, say, Isaiah Thomas -- who was traded for a package that was worse than this 9 months ago. I also understand that Zeller is not expiring: he's a RFA on a team desperate to keep its cap space next summer -- which presuming he can simply perform as well as he did last season in a league where big guys get paid -- is a pretty nice asset.

You're hyperbolically speculating about how desperate members of Washington's front office feel, which assuming you don't work there, you're not really qualified to do. Washington may indeed love Oubre and hate Zeller as you do, but it's not the foregone conclusion you make it out to be.

We can just agree to disagree here.

[slamtheking]

Good idea, but they'd want more than an expiring Zeller and 2nd round pick.
They'd ask for Zeller+James Young+ 1 or 2 second round picks.

The other option is sending them Amir and Jerebko and taking back NeNe +Oubre.

A great prospect and we give Mickey some minutes.
We'd lose at least 5 more games though losing Amir inside.

Why would they expect to get more than the mid first round pick (Zeller) and the 31st pick in next year's draft, for a mid first round pick? It's not like Zeller hasn't proven he can play, that he's durable, and that he can run the floor pretty well for his size.

Because they are giving up the best player/asset in the deal in Oubre and wouldn't be getting anywhere near enough in return. Tyler Zeller is worth *maybe* two 2nd rounders at most.

Would you give up Kelly Oubre for an expiring Zeller and late pick?

how are you seeing Oubre as the better asset?  Zeller has shown he's a solid backup center while Oubre hasn't shown anything yet.  If anything, I'd want Wash to kick in a second rounder rather than us.

[chambers]

Good idea, but they'd want more than an expiring Zeller and 2nd round pick.
They'd ask for Zeller+James Young+ 1 or 2 second round picks.

The other option is sending them Amir and Jerebko and taking back NeNe +Oubre.

A great prospect and we give Mickey some minutes.
We'd lose at least 5 more games though losing Amir inside.

Why would they expect to get more than the mid first round pick (Zeller) and the 31st pick in next year's draft, for a mid first round pick? It's not like Zeller hasn't proven he can play, that he's durable, and that he can run the floor pretty well for his size.

Because they are giving up the best player/asset in the deal in Oubre and wouldn't be getting anywhere near enough in return. Tyler Zeller is worth *maybe* two 2nd rounders at most.

Would you give up Kelly Oubre for an expiring Zeller and late pick?

Depends on how I (Washington) felt about Oubre's upside, and how concerned I might be about my team's ability to compete this year under the circumstances.

Oubre may be the best asset in the deal -- maybe -- but he's not the best player in the deal. Zeller's shown he's an efficient 7 footer when given minutes, and he fits their system very well. Oubre's barely played. He's 19 -- relying on him to produce this year is pretty shaky.

Meanwhile, under the current CBA the (likely) first pick in the 2nd round is arguably more valuable than late 1sts. It's a nice asset. Also under the current CBA, the Wiz could potentially sign Durant this summer before resigning Zeller to a long term deal -- just as they plan to do with Beal.

So bottom line: if I needed a center now (for reason the OP suggests) over a wing that plays KD's position later, yep i'd strongly consider the deal.

You're overvaluing Zeller and undervaluing Oubre.
Who gives up an expiring big man who doesn't even start on the current Celtics squad for their just drafted 15th pick?
If Zeller were a Mozgov or even Kosta Koufos level talent then maybe in some parallel universe they might not hang up the phone laughing. Heck if he had another year before RFA then yeah, they'd at least listen...But he's not, and he doesn't- and if we were lucky, we'd get a few 2nd round picks for him.

It's simple, Washington are simply not desperate enough that they'd trade away their rookie #15 pick for a mediocre back up big man and a 2nd round pick.

They'd go after a wondering unsigned big man, say, Ryan Hollins, for example.

I'm creating an objective POV. I understand that Oubre is not more valuable than, say, Isaiah Thomas -- who was traded for a package that was worse than this 9 months ago. I also understand that Zeller is not expiring: he's a RFA on a team desperate to keep its cap space next summer -- which presuming he can simply perform as well as he did last season in a league where big guys get paid -- is a pretty nice asset.

You're hyperbolically speculating about how desperate members of Washington's front office feel, which assuming you don't work there, you're not really qualified to do. Washington may indeed love Oubre and hate Zeller as you do, but it's not the foregone conclusion you make it out to be.

We can just agree to disagree here.

You make a good point about Zeller's 'free' capspace next year which increases his value to teams looking to go after Durant and put solid role players/bench pieces around him.

I don't need to work in the Wizards front office to know that Kelly Oubre is worth far more than Tyler Zeller. There's being objective and then there's arguing for arguments sake.

I understand the point you're making, and respect your opinion. We'll just agree2disagree as you said

[slamtheking]

Im extremely for this. If Washington says Yes then I take the deal and run. Thats essentially getting a first rounder (Better than our pick last year) for Zeller and a Second.

My only worry is that Oubre wouldn't get any playing time. He's a SG/SF. Our Depth chart at that position looks like this:

SG: Smart, AB, Hunter
SF: Crowder, Turner, Young

Meaning that if we did pick him up, he would essentially be doing the same thing is Zeller. SITTING ON THE BENCH.

If we have a nice consolidation move in place (3 for 1) then getting Oubre would be a great side deal. I still think the kid can be good, just needs the right coach

Well the main reason you'd take Oubre is because of his youth and his contract+years under control. Zeller is a restricted free agent this offseason.

Even if Oubre sits on the bench, we'd still have him for 3 more years under rookie contract.

right, because that's why everyone values James Young so highly --> he's young and cost controlled for  2 more years and gets to sit on our bench. 

[chambers]

Im extremely for this. If Washington says Yes then I take the deal and run. Thats essentially getting a first rounder (Better than our pick last year) for Zeller and a Second.

My only worry is that Oubre wouldn't get any playing time. He's a SG/SF. Our Depth chart at that position looks like this:

SG: Smart, AB, Hunter
SF: Crowder, Turner, Young

Meaning that if we did pick him up, he would essentially be doing the same thing is Zeller. SITTING ON THE BENCH.

If we have a nice consolidation move in place (3 for 1) then getting Oubre would be a great side deal. I still think the kid can be good, just needs the right coach

Well the main reason you'd take Oubre is because of his youth and his contract+years under control. Zeller is a restricted free agent this offseason.

Even if Oubre sits on the bench, we'd still have him for 3 more years under rookie contract.

right, because that's why everyone values James Young so highly --> he's young and cost controlled for  2 more years and gets to sit on our bench. 

Thankfully is this scenario we have physical evidence that Oubre can actually play NBA minutes before we acquire him. We were gambling on Mr Young and the house may have won

[ssspence]

Im extremely for this. If Washington says Yes then I take the deal and run. Thats essentially getting a first rounder (Better than our pick last year) for Zeller and a Second.

My only worry is that Oubre wouldn't get any playing time. He's a SG/SF. Our Depth chart at that position looks like this:

SG: Smart, AB, Hunter
SF: Crowder, Turner, Young

Meaning that if we did pick him up, he would essentially be doing the same thing is Zeller. SITTING ON THE BENCH.

If we have a nice consolidation move in place (3 for 1) then getting Oubre would be a great side deal. I still think the kid can be good, just needs the right coach

Well the main reason you'd take Oubre is because of his youth and his contract+years under control. Zeller is a restricted free agent this offseason.

Even if Oubre sits on the bench, we'd still have him for 3 more years under rookie contract.

right, because that's why everyone values James Young so highly --> he's young and cost controlled for  2 more years and gets to sit on our bench. 

Thankfully is this scenario we have physical evidence that Oubre can actually play NBA minutes before we acquire him. We were gambling on Mr Young and the house may have won

Agreed. Ombre's already looked far better in his NBA career than Young has.

[saltlover]

They've got Nene so why do they need Zeller.  I'm assuming the Hollins move was made to tide them over until Nene returns from his injury.

Three reasons

1) Nene hasn't been reliably healthy for years.
2) With that decline in health has also come a decline in effectiveness.  Personally I think Zeller is the better player.
3) Acquiring Zeller means that later on they could ship out Nene in an exchange of large expiring contracts, sending a pick with it to get reinforcements at some position at the trade deadline from a team pulling the plug.  Eric Gordon from the Pelicans is the first name that comes to my head, but there are always players making $10-$15 million that non-contending teams are looking to move.

[Ed Hollison]

I also like this idea, but I wonder if Zeller + #31 would be enough to pry away Oubre. I don't like the idea of swapping in Sullinger for Zeller, because I think in a year like this (when the team has relatively high expectations and team chemistry is a factor) it's tough to shed Sullinger, even if he's at the end of his deal.

The value of adding players like Oubre is that you could stash in in Maine (couldn't you?). So let's say at the end of the year you had three guys -- Oubre, Young, and Mickey -- who all tore it up in the D-league and are all young and have lots of time left on their deals. Then when you go for that big mega-deal for a star, you can add on to a centerpiece asset (like a Brooklyn pick) with other nice sweeteners. That's essentially what happened with the Garnett deal, when we sweetened the headline piece (Al Jefferson) with similar sweeteners like Ryan Gomes and Gerald Green.

[PhoSita]

We'd lose at least 5 more games though losing Amir inside.

doesn't bother me at all.  don't let the W/L record fool you.  the Celts still need to have the mentality of a rebuilding franchise, because that's what they are.