CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: cman88 on January 06, 2013, 03:14:57 PM
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http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celtics/post/_/id/4700937/cs-defensive-improvement-in-focus (http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celtics/post/_/id/4700937/cs-defensive-improvement-in-focus)
its only a 3 game sample size, but the C's have had the best defense the past 3 games
and one of the worst before bradleys return...
we need to keep it up, but I wonder what all those who said "bradley wont make a difference" are saying now? its clear he has had a big impact on this team(last year and so far this year)
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it hasn't been Bradley, it's been the entire team coming together and beginning to understand the defense, trust each other, and give a full effort. Washburn's articles have documented this quite well recently. They actually lost the first game Bradley came back, and they lost convincingly to a poor team. I was at that game, and the celtics were awful on both ends of the floor. It's the team as a whole getting fed up with poor losses and trusting in their coach and each other. I'm glad Bradley's back, but he has struggled so far, as expected considering all the time he missed. He looks mediocre at the moment.
Give credit where it's due, to the celtics players finally beginning to trust in Doc and the defensive system.
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it hasn't been Bradley, it's been the entire team coming together and beginning to understand the defense, trust each other, and give a full effort. Washburn's articles have documented this quite well recently. I'm glad Bradley's back, but he has struggled so far, as expected considering all the time he missed. He looks mediocre at the moment.
Give credit where it's due, to the celtics players finally beginning to trust in Doc and the defensive system.
so, the past 2 years its just been a "coincidence" that when bradley starts we play better defense?
sure hes struggled offensively. but I havent seen anything defensively to show me hes struggling there.
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it hasn't been Bradley, it's been the entire team coming together and beginning to understand the defense, trust each other, and give a full effort. Washburn's articles have documented this quite well recently. I'm glad Bradley's back, but he has struggled so far, as expected considering all the time he missed. He looks mediocre at the moment.
Give credit where it's due, to the celtics players finally beginning to trust in Doc and the defensive system.
so, the past 2 years its just been a "coincidence" that when bradley starts we play better defense?
sure hes struggled offensively. but I havent seen anything defensively to show me hes struggling there.
you keep trying to create some image of Bradley that doesn't reflect reality. If you really want to believe that, good for you, but it there are 9 new players on this team from last year's team. You cannot compare the two teams, and you have to realize it takes a lot to get so many players to learn a complex defensive system and trust in each other and their coach. Give Doc and the players credit.
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I still think this team needs a servicable big to compete for a title. That being said, Bradley has been magnificent these past three games. I love the kid.
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It's hard to measure the impact of a spark. You know the spark alone doesn't start the fire, but you also know the fire doesn't start without the spark.
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it hasn't been Bradley, it's been the entire team coming together and beginning to understand the defense, trust each other, and give a full effort. Washburn's articles have documented this quite well recently. I'm glad Bradley's back, but he has struggled so far, as expected considering all the time he missed. He looks mediocre at the moment.
Give credit where it's due, to the celtics players finally beginning to trust in Doc and the defensive system.
so, the past 2 years its just been a "coincidence" that when bradley starts we play better defense?
sure hes struggled offensively. but I havent seen anything defensively to show me hes struggling there.
you keep trying to create some image of Bradley that doesn't reflect reality. If you really want to believe that, good for you, but it there are 9 new players on this team from last year's team. You cannot compare the two teams, and you have to realize it takes a lot to get so many players to learn a complex defensive system and trust in each other and their coach. Give Doc and the players credit.
So I guess that Doc AND the players see it differently than you do (watch any interview after these games). Yes, it's a team effort, not one player can/should be given all the credit but Avery is a HUGE key in what makes the team better defensively... what he does has a trickle down effect. How many new players do the NYK and ATL have this season... can't remember how many new players the NYK have but it's quite a few, the Hawks have NINE new players, funny how they manage to play well this season and gel as a team. You keep fooling yourself into believing AB isn't a catalyst for the improved defense and I will just keep listening to Doc and the players! Doc said he told RR and AB last night that they can be the best 2 guards on defense and that they should go out there and prove it (something along those lines), AB and RR came out and shut Teague and Williams down, they pressured the ball non-stop, that in turn caused everyone else to step their games up! How many times does PP and the guys have to say that AB is the best on ball defender and that his effort is so great that it gives a boost to everyone else? So you're going to really use AB's first game back after not playing for months to say that he isn't a big reason the team's D has gone from nonexistent to one of the best? Really? Okay, I tell you what if our D doesn't continue to be improved from the first 30 games, with AB, then I will come in here and say, "you were right, AB was not the biggest reason for the turnaround". I'm not talking wins or loses but just the defense (but with better defense more wins should come... not all wins but more for sure). 30 games is the magic number for new guys to come together, nope, it's not Bradley... the other people on the team are just crazy... ::)
It wasn't one game that the other guys had some type of epiphany and figured out the defense all of a sudden... if it is the case then it sure is weird that it took them until AB came back. Oh and also, AB's first game back, the problem wasn't defense, the problem was offense, we couldn't hit the ocean if our life depended on it!
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it hasn't been Bradley, it's been the entire team coming together and beginning to understand the defense, trust each other, and give a full effort. Washburn's articles have documented this quite well recently. I'm glad Bradley's back, but he has struggled so far, as expected considering all the time he missed. He looks mediocre at the moment.
Give credit where it's due, to the celtics players finally beginning to trust in Doc and the defensive system.
so, the past 2 years its just been a "coincidence" that when bradley starts we play better defense?
sure hes struggled offensively. but I havent seen anything defensively to show me hes struggling there.
you keep trying to create some image of Bradley that doesn't reflect reality. If you really want to believe that, good for you, but it there are 9 new players on this team from last year's team. You cannot compare the two teams, and you have to realize it takes a lot to get so many players to learn a complex defensive system and trust in each other and their coach. Give Doc and the players credit.
So I guess that Doc AND the players see it differently than you do (watch any interview after these games). Yes, it's a team effort, not one player can/should be given all the credit but Avery is a HUGE key in what makes the team better defensively... what he does has a trickle down effect. How many new players do the NYK and ATL have this season... can't remember how many new players the NYK have but it's quite a few, the Hawks have NINE new players, funny how they manage to play well this season and gel as a team. You keep fooling yourself into believe AB isn't a catalyst for the improved defense and I will just keep listening to Doc and the players! Doc said he told RR and AB last night that they can be the best 2 guards on defense and that they should go out there and prove it (something along those lines), AB and RR came out and shut Teague and Williams down, they pressured the ball non-stop, that in turn caused everyone else to step their games up! How many times does PP and the guys have to say that AB is the best on ball defender and that his effort is so great that it gives a boost to everyone else? So you're going to really use AB's first game back after not playing for months to say that he isn't a big reason the team's D has gone from nonexistent to one of the best? Really? Okay, I tell you what if our D doesn't continue to be improved from the first 30 games, with AB, then I will come in here and say, "you were right, AB was not the biggest reason for the turnaround". I'm not talking wins or loses but just the defense (but with better defense more wins should come... not all wins but more for sure). 30 games is the magic number for new guys to come together, nope, it's not Bradley... the other people on the team are just crazy... ::)
I suppose we should be able to trade him for Dwight Howard then if everything you believe it true ::)
Our defense was great against the heat in the ECF last year WITHOUT Bradley. Our defense was great when we went 7 games with the lakers in the NBA Finals WITHOUT Bradley, and of course, our defense was great in 2008 WITHOUT Bradley.
All of those games had Ray Allen in the lineup instead. Was Ray a defensive monster? Did I miss that?
Point is, it's our team trusting in the defense, not a magical effect of an undersized SG.
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it hasn't been Bradley, it's been the entire team coming together and beginning to understand the defense, trust each other, and give a full effort. Washburn's articles have documented this quite well recently. I'm glad Bradley's back, but he has struggled so far, as expected considering all the time he missed. He looks mediocre at the moment.
Give credit where it's due, to the celtics players finally beginning to trust in Doc and the defensive system.
so, the past 2 years its just been a "coincidence" that when bradley starts we play better defense?
sure hes struggled offensively. but I havent seen anything defensively to show me hes struggling there.
We were one of the best defensive teams in the entire NBA before Bradley was even drafted. That's no coincidence.
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it hasn't been Bradley, it's been the entire team coming together and beginning to understand the defense, trust each other, and give a full effort. Washburn's articles have documented this quite well recently. I'm glad Bradley's back, but he has struggled so far, as expected considering all the time he missed. He looks mediocre at the moment.
Give credit where it's due, to the celtics players finally beginning to trust in Doc and the defensive system.
so, the past 2 years its just been a "coincidence" that when bradley starts we play better defense?
sure hes struggled offensively. but I havent seen anything defensively to show me hes struggling there.
We were one of the best defensive teams in the entire NBA before Bradley was even drafted. That's no coincidence.
Thank you. Someone displaying some common sense on this topic. That's all I've been trying to say.
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it hasn't been Bradley, it's been the entire team coming together and beginning to understand the defense, trust each other, and give a full effort. Washburn's articles have documented this quite well recently. They actually lost the first game Bradley came back, and they lost convincingly to a poor team. I was at that game, and the celtics were awful on both ends of the floor. It's the team as a whole getting fed up with poor losses and trusting in their coach and each other. I'm glad Bradley's back, but he has struggled so far, as expected considering all the time he missed. He looks mediocre at the moment.
Give credit where it's due, to the celtics players finally beginning to trust in Doc and the defensive system.
How can you say it has not been Bradley? Do you even watch the games?
The team had close to half a season without Bradley who is known to be a big time defensive guard and turns out the worst defense numbers in the league. Then the defensive expert comes back and in the three games since he has been back the team posts the best defense numbers in the league, and you say it has not been his impact?
Come on now.
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it hasn't been Bradley, it's been the entire team coming together and beginning to understand the defense, trust each other, and give a full effort. Washburn's articles have documented this quite well recently. I'm glad Bradley's back, but he has struggled so far, as expected considering all the time he missed. He looks mediocre at the moment.
Give credit where it's due, to the celtics players finally beginning to trust in Doc and the defensive system.
so, the past 2 years its just been a "coincidence" that when bradley starts we play better defense?
sure hes struggled offensively. but I havent seen anything defensively to show me hes struggling there.
We were one of the best defensive teams in the entire NBA before Bradley was even drafted. That's no coincidence.
It's definitely more than a coincidence that the team is defending better and playing harder since Bradley returned. Even if you don't think Bradley is playing well, you've got to acknowledge that his presence and supply of energy has had a positive effect on his teammates.
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it hasn't been Bradley, it's been the entire team coming together and beginning to understand the defense, trust each other, and give a full effort. Washburn's articles have documented this quite well recently. I'm glad Bradley's back, but he has struggled so far, as expected considering all the time he missed. He looks mediocre at the moment.
Give credit where it's due, to the celtics players finally beginning to trust in Doc and the defensive system.
so, the past 2 years its just been a "coincidence" that when bradley starts we play better defense?
sure hes struggled offensively. but I havent seen anything defensively to show me hes struggling there.
you keep trying to create some image of Bradley that doesn't reflect reality. If you really want to believe that, good for you, but it there are 9 new players on this team from last year's team. You cannot compare the two teams, and you have to realize it takes a lot to get so many players to learn a complex defensive system and trust in each other and their coach. Give Doc and the players credit.
So I guess that Doc AND the players see it differently than you do (watch any interview after these games). Yes, it's a team effort, not one player can/should be given all the credit but Avery is a HUGE key in what makes the team better defensively... what he does has a trickle down effect. How many new players do the NYK and ATL have this season... can't remember how many new players the NYK have but it's quite a few, the Hawks have NINE new players, funny how they manage to play well this season and gel as a team. You keep fooling yourself into believe AB isn't a catalyst for the improved defense and I will just keep listening to Doc and the players! Doc said he told RR and AB last night that they can be the best 2 guards on defense and that they should go out there and prove it (something along those lines), AB and RR came out and shut Teague and Williams down, they pressured the ball non-stop, that in turn caused everyone else to step their games up! How many times does PP and the guys have to say that AB is the best on ball defender and that his effort is so great that it gives a boost to everyone else? So you're going to really use AB's first game back after not playing for months to say that he isn't a big reason the team's D has gone from nonexistent to one of the best? Really? Okay, I tell you what if our D doesn't continue to be improved from the first 30 games, with AB, then I will come in here and say, "you were right, AB was not the biggest reason for the turnaround". I'm not talking wins or loses but just the defense (but with better defense more wins should come... not all wins but more for sure). 30 games is the magic number for new guys to come together, nope, it's not Bradley... the other people on the team are just crazy... ::)
I suppose we should be able to trade him for Dwight Howard then if everything you believe it true ::)
I'm not saying you are stupid but this is a stupid comment (yikes, I still may get in trouble)! No one is saying he is as good as DH but what he does for THIS team, is very important! I know it's hard for you to wrap your head around a guy that just does his job on defense so well that he can be a huge catalyst for his team's success despite not filling up a stat sheet... but like I said before, you can keep doing that! I'm just going to believe what I see and what the players, Doc, and Danny say.
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Once again, we were a top defensive team in 2008 (NBA title) 2010 (NBA finals) and 2012 (ECF) all without Bradley, all with Ray Allen in his place. How can you honestly believe that Bradley is that big of a difference? Have you watched this team the last 5 years?
Other than 2008 when they played at a top level all through the season, they have basically gone on autopilot every year since, and then turn it on halfway through, because they know they can, and because it takes too much out of them to do it every night. It also takes forever to get new guys to learn the system. It is what it is. Bradley is great, I'm glad we have him. But he's not the difference maker you guys believe him to be.
The only point when he might be that difference maker is if we play the heat again in the playoffs and he can actually shut down Wade though. We then have to hope that Green can do a decent job on Lebron.
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it hasn't been Bradley, it's been the entire team coming together and beginning to understand the defense, trust each other, and give a full effort. Washburn's articles have documented this quite well recently. I'm glad Bradley's back, but he has struggled so far, as expected considering all the time he missed. He looks mediocre at the moment.
Give credit where it's due, to the celtics players finally beginning to trust in Doc and the defensive system.
so, the past 2 years its just been a "coincidence" that when bradley starts we play better defense?
sure hes struggled offensively. but I havent seen anything defensively to show me hes struggling there.
you keep trying to create some image of Bradley that doesn't reflect reality. If you really want to believe that, good for you, but it there are 9 new players on this team from last year's team. You cannot compare the two teams, and you have to realize it takes a lot to get so many players to learn a complex defensive system and trust in each other and their coach. Give Doc and the players credit.
So I guess that Doc AND the players see it differently than you do (watch any interview after these games). Yes, it's a team effort, not one player can/should be given all the credit but Avery is a HUGE key in what makes the team better defensively... what he does has a trickle down effect. How many new players do the NYK and ATL have this season... can't remember how many new players the NYK have but it's quite a few, the Hawks have NINE new players, funny how they manage to play well this season and gel as a team. You keep fooling yourself into believe AB isn't a catalyst for the improved defense and I will just keep listening to Doc and the players! Doc said he told RR and AB last night that they can be the best 2 guards on defense and that they should go out there and prove it (something along those lines), AB and RR came out and shut Teague and Williams down, they pressured the ball non-stop, that in turn caused everyone else to step their games up! How many times does PP and the guys have to say that AB is the best on ball defender and that his effort is so great that it gives a boost to everyone else? So you're going to really use AB's first game back after not playing for months to say that he isn't a big reason the team's D has gone from nonexistent to one of the best? Really? Okay, I tell you what if our D doesn't continue to be improved from the first 30 games, with AB, then I will come in here and say, "you were right, AB was not the biggest reason for the turnaround". I'm not talking wins or loses but just the defense (but with better defense more wins should come... not all wins but more for sure). 30 games is the magic number for new guys to come together, nope, it's not Bradley... the other people on the team are just crazy... ::)
I suppose we should be able to trade him for Dwight Howard then if everything you believe it true ::)
I'm not saying you are stupid but this is a stupid comment (yikes, I still may get in trouble)! No one is saying he is as good as DH but what he does for THIS team, is very important! I know it's hard for you to wrap your head around a guy that just does his job on defense so well that he can be a huge catalyst for his team's success despite not filling up a stat sheet... but like I said before, you can keep doing that! I'm just going to believe what I see and what the players, Doc, and Danny say.
I think it's agree to disagree time gents. - Redz
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Once again, we were a top defensive team in 2008 (NBA title) 2010 (NBA finals) and 2012 (ECF) all without Bradley, all with Ray Allen in his place. How can you honestly believe that Bradley is that big of a difference? Have you watched this team the last 5 years?
Other than 2008 when they played at a top level all through the season, they have basically gone on autopilot every year since, and then turn it on halfway through, because they know they can, and because it takes too much out of them to do it every night. It also takes forever to get new guys to learn the system. It is what it is. Bradley is great, I'm glad we have him. But he's not the difference maker you guys believe him to be.
The only point when he might be that difference maker is if we play the heat again in the playoffs and he can actually shut down Wade though. We then have to hope that Green can do a decent job on Lebron.
Not sure if the point is whether Bradley is making this a capable defensive team or if Bradley is energizing this team to achieve its potential. Either way, Bradley seems to be making a difference.
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it hasn't been Bradley, it's been the entire team coming together and beginning to understand the defense, trust each other, and give a full effort. Washburn's articles have documented this quite well recently. I'm glad Bradley's back, but he has struggled so far, as expected considering all the time he missed. He looks mediocre at the moment.
Give credit where it's due, to the celtics players finally beginning to trust in Doc and the defensive system.
so, the past 2 years its just been a "coincidence" that when bradley starts we play better defense?
sure hes struggled offensively. but I havent seen anything defensively to show me hes struggling there.
We were one of the best defensive teams in the entire NBA before Bradley was even drafted. That's no coincidence.
Thank you. Someone displaying some common sense on this topic. That's all I've been trying to say.
If this is common sense then you are right, I don't have it. We aren't talking about the team's before AB because (what seems like common sense to me), we had other guys who were energy guys and who played great defense on those teams! We are talking about THIS team/players, they didn't have what AB brings w/o him, now they do with him, so it makes them better! I mean, if you don't get that, that's fine...
THIS team was not playing this type of defense w/o him!
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it hasn't been Bradley, it's been the entire team coming together and beginning to understand the defense, trust each other, and give a full effort. Washburn's articles have documented this quite well recently. I'm glad Bradley's back, but he has struggled so far, as expected considering all the time he missed. He looks mediocre at the moment.
Give credit where it's due, to the celtics players finally beginning to trust in Doc and the defensive system.
so, the past 2 years its just been a "coincidence" that when bradley starts we play better defense?
sure hes struggled offensively. but I havent seen anything defensively to show me hes struggling there.
We were one of the best defensive teams in the entire NBA before Bradley was even drafted. That's no coincidence.
It's definitely more than a coincidence that the team is defending better and playing harder since Bradley returned. Even if you don't think Bradley is playing well, you've got to acknowledge that his presence and supply of energy has had a positive effect on his teammates.
He's helped this team defensively and everybody to finally get comfortable in their roles tremendously. Yes defense has always been our bread and butter but if you look years back on our title run we were younger. We also had Tony who is similar to what Avery Bradley now gives us. If you think he isn't a HUGE reason why our defense has been better these past few games then you're foolish. Doc/Paul/KG/Rondo have all said how big a difference he makes. I'll go with them and from what the eye test and numbers so far tell me.
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it hasn't been Bradley, it's been the entire team coming together and beginning to understand the defense, trust each other, and give a full effort. Washburn's articles have documented this quite well recently. I'm glad Bradley's back, but he has struggled so far, as expected considering all the time he missed. He looks mediocre at the moment.
Give credit where it's due, to the celtics players finally beginning to trust in Doc and the defensive system.
so, the past 2 years its just been a "coincidence" that when bradley starts we play better defense?
sure hes struggled offensively. but I havent seen anything defensively to show me hes struggling there.
We were one of the best defensive teams in the entire NBA before Bradley was even drafted. That's no coincidence.
It's definitely more than a coincidence that the team is defending better and playing harder since Bradley returned. Even if you don't think Bradley is playing well, you've got to acknowledge that his presence and supply of energy has had a positive effect on his teammates.
He's helped this team defensively and everybody to finally get comfortable in their roles tremendously. Yes defense has always been our bread and butter but if you look years back on our title run we were younger. We also had Tony who is similar to what Avery Bradley now gives us. If you think he isn't a HUGE reason why our defense has been better these past few games then you're foolish. Doc/Paul/KG/Rondo have all said how big a difference he makes. I'll go with them and from what the eye test and numbers so far tell me.
so he's a coach now too?
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it hasn't been Bradley, it's been the entire team coming together and beginning to understand the defense, trust each other, and give a full effort. Washburn's articles have documented this quite well recently. I'm glad Bradley's back, but he has struggled so far, as expected considering all the time he missed. He looks mediocre at the moment.
Give credit where it's due, to the celtics players finally beginning to trust in Doc and the defensive system.
so, the past 2 years its just been a "coincidence" that when bradley starts we play better defense?
sure hes struggled offensively. but I havent seen anything defensively to show me hes struggling there.
you keep trying to create some image of Bradley that doesn't reflect reality. If you really want to believe that, good for you, but it there are 9 new players on this team from last year's team. You cannot compare the two teams, and you have to realize it takes a lot to get so many players to learn a complex defensive system and trust in each other and their coach. Give Doc and the players credit.
So I guess that Doc AND the players see it differently than you do (watch any interview after these games). Yes, it's a team effort, not one player can/should be given all the credit but Avery is a HUGE key in what makes the team better defensively... what he does has a trickle down effect. How many new players do the NYK and ATL have this season... can't remember how many new players the NYK have but it's quite a few, the Hawks have NINE new players, funny how they manage to play well this season and gel as a team. You keep fooling yourself into believe AB isn't a catalyst for the improved defense and I will just keep listening to Doc and the players! Doc said he told RR and AB last night that they can be the best 2 guards on defense and that they should go out there and prove it (something along those lines), AB and RR came out and shut Teague and Williams down, they pressured the ball non-stop, that in turn caused everyone else to step their games up! How many times does PP and the guys have to say that AB is the best on ball defender and that his effort is so great that it gives a boost to everyone else? So you're going to really use AB's first game back after not playing for months to say that he isn't a big reason the team's D has gone from nonexistent to one of the best? Really? Okay, I tell you what if our D doesn't continue to be improved from the first 30 games, with AB, then I will come in here and say, "you were right, AB was not the biggest reason for the turnaround". I'm not talking wins or loses but just the defense (but with better defense more wins should come... not all wins but more for sure). 30 games is the magic number for new guys to come together, nope, it's not Bradley... the other people on the team are just crazy... ::)
I suppose we should be able to trade him for Dwight Howard then if everything you believe it true ::)
Our defense was great against the heat in the ECF last year WITHOUT Bradley. Our defense was great when we went 7 games with the lakers in the NBA Finals WITHOUT Bradley, and of course, our defense was great in 2008 WITHOUT Bradley.
All of those games had Ray Allen in the lineup instead. Was Ray a defensive monster? Did I miss that?
Point is, it's our team trusting in the defense, not a magical effect of an undersized SG.
It's sad that you discount all the other players those teams had besides Ray Allen that aren't on this team today... 0.0
You are the type of person who thinks that stars win these chips pretty much on their own.
I mean, it worked so well for Lebron and Jordan (etc.)... oh wait, they needed the other players to step up and do their jobs so that they could win? nope, Pippen wasn't needed, no Wade/Bosh were scrubs too. 0.0
I think you and your friend are missing the point, no one is saying it's ALL AB, we are saying that he is a very big piece to the puzzle! AGAIN, this isn't just us, this is THE ORGANIZATION saying it!
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it hasn't been Bradley, it's been the entire team coming together and beginning to understand the defense, trust each other, and give a full effort. Washburn's articles have documented this quite well recently. I'm glad Bradley's back, but he has struggled so far, as expected considering all the time he missed. He looks mediocre at the moment.
Give credit where it's due, to the celtics players finally beginning to trust in Doc and the defensive system.
so, the past 2 years its just been a "coincidence" that when bradley starts we play better defense?
sure hes struggled offensively. but I havent seen anything defensively to show me hes struggling there.
We were one of the best defensive teams in the entire NBA before Bradley was even drafted. That's no coincidence.
Thank you. Someone displaying some common sense on this topic. That's all I've been trying to say.
If this is common sense then you are right, I don't have it. We aren't talking about the team's before AB because (what seems like common sense to me), we had other guys who were energy guys and who played great defense on those teams! We are talking about THIS team/players, they didn't have what AB brings w/o him, now they do with him, so it makes them better! I mean, if you don't get that, that's fine...
THIS team was not playing this type of defense w/o him!
This team did play this type of defense without him during the ECF last year against the Heat.
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it hasn't been Bradley, it's been the entire team coming together and beginning to understand the defense, trust each other, and give a full effort. Washburn's articles have documented this quite well recently. I'm glad Bradley's back, but he has struggled so far, as expected considering all the time he missed. He looks mediocre at the moment.
Give credit where it's due, to the celtics players finally beginning to trust in Doc and the defensive system.
so, the past 2 years its just been a "coincidence" that when bradley starts we play better defense?
sure hes struggled offensively. but I havent seen anything defensively to show me hes struggling there.
We were one of the best defensive teams in the entire NBA before Bradley was even drafted. That's no coincidence.
It's definitely more than a coincidence that the team is defending better and playing harder since Bradley returned. Even if you don't think Bradley is playing well, you've got to acknowledge that his presence and supply of energy has had a positive effect on his teammates.
He's helped this team defensively and everybody to finally get comfortable in their roles tremendously. Yes defense has always been our bread and butter but if you look years back on our title run we were younger. We also had Tony who is similar to what Avery Bradley now gives us. If you think he isn't a HUGE reason why our defense has been better these past few games then you're foolish. Doc/Paul/KG/Rondo have all said how big a difference he makes. I'll go with them and from what the eye test and numbers so far tell me.
so he's a coach now too?
Do you now know what I meant by that? Him being in the starting lineup now?!? You're just being stupid and trying to argue to just to argue now by disregarding everything else I said
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it hasn't been Bradley, it's been the entire team coming together and beginning to understand the defense, trust each other, and give a full effort. Washburn's articles have documented this quite well recently. I'm glad Bradley's back, but he has struggled so far, as expected considering all the time he missed. He looks mediocre at the moment.
Give credit where it's due, to the celtics players finally beginning to trust in Doc and the defensive system.
so, the past 2 years its just been a "coincidence" that when bradley starts we play better defense?
sure hes struggled offensively. but I havent seen anything defensively to show me hes struggling there.
you keep trying to create some image of Bradley that doesn't reflect reality. If you really want to believe that, good for you, but it there are 9 new players on this team from last year's team. You cannot compare the two teams, and you have to realize it takes a lot to get so many players to learn a complex defensive system and trust in each other and their coach. Give Doc and the players credit.
So I guess that Doc AND the players see it differently than you do (watch any interview after these games). Yes, it's a team effort, not one player can/should be given all the credit but Avery is a HUGE key in what makes the team better defensively... what he does has a trickle down effect. How many new players do the NYK and ATL have this season... can't remember how many new players the NYK have but it's quite a few, the Hawks have NINE new players, funny how they manage to play well this season and gel as a team. You keep fooling yourself into believe AB isn't a catalyst for the improved defense and I will just keep listening to Doc and the players! Doc said he told RR and AB last night that they can be the best 2 guards on defense and that they should go out there and prove it (something along those lines), AB and RR came out and shut Teague and Williams down, they pressured the ball non-stop, that in turn caused everyone else to step their games up! How many times does PP and the guys have to say that AB is the best on ball defender and that his effort is so great that it gives a boost to everyone else? So you're going to really use AB's first game back after not playing for months to say that he isn't a big reason the team's D has gone from nonexistent to one of the best? Really? Okay, I tell you what if our D doesn't continue to be improved from the first 30 games, with AB, then I will come in here and say, "you were right, AB was not the biggest reason for the turnaround". I'm not talking wins or loses but just the defense (but with better defense more wins should come... not all wins but more for sure). 30 games is the magic number for new guys to come together, nope, it's not Bradley... the other people on the team are just crazy... ::)
I suppose we should be able to trade him for Dwight Howard then if everything you believe it true ::)
Our defense was great against the heat in the ECF last year WITHOUT Bradley. Our defense was great when we went 7 games with the lakers in the NBA Finals WITHOUT Bradley, and of course, our defense was great in 2008 WITHOUT Bradley.
All of those games had Ray Allen in the lineup instead. Was Ray a defensive monster? Did I miss that?
Point is, it's our team trusting in the defense, not a magical effect of an undersized SG.
It's sad that you discount all the other players those teams had besides Ray Allen that aren't on this team today... 0.0
You are the type of person who thinks that stars win these chips pretty much on their own.
I mean, it worked so well for Lebron and Jordan (etc.)... oh wait, they needed the other players to step up and do their jobs so that they could win? nope, Pippen wasn't needed, no Wade/Bosh were scrubs too. 0.0
I think you and your friend are missing the point, no one is saying it's ALL AB, we are saying that he is a very big piece to the puzzle! AGAIN, this isn't just us, this is THE ORGANIZATION saying it!
You misunderstood. I'm in no way discounting the other players on the team, I'm saying it's the other players that deserve credit! Ray Allen is a terrible defender, and yet our team defense was outstanding with him. It was everyone on those teams working together. It's not about superstars, but yet some people think Bradley is some defensive Bill Russell type of superstar that single handedly trasforms our team from the worst defense to the best.
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it hasn't been Bradley, it's been the entire team coming together and beginning to understand the defense, trust each other, and give a full effort. Washburn's articles have documented this quite well recently. I'm glad Bradley's back, but he has struggled so far, as expected considering all the time he missed. He looks mediocre at the moment.
Give credit where it's due, to the celtics players finally beginning to trust in Doc and the defensive system.
so, the past 2 years its just been a "coincidence" that when bradley starts we play better defense?
sure hes struggled offensively. but I havent seen anything defensively to show me hes struggling there.
We were one of the best defensive teams in the entire NBA before Bradley was even drafted. That's no coincidence.
It's definitely more than a coincidence that the team is defending better and playing harder since Bradley returned. Even if you don't think Bradley is playing well, you've got to acknowledge that his presence and supply of energy has had a positive effect on his teammates.
He's helped this team defensively and everybody to finally get comfortable in their roles tremendously. Yes defense has always been our bread and butter but if you look years back on our title run we were younger. We also had Tony who is similar to what Avery Bradley now gives us. If you think he isn't a HUGE reason why our defense has been better these past few games then you're foolish. Doc/Paul/KG/Rondo have all said how big a difference he makes. I'll go with them and from what the eye test and numbers so far tell me.
so he's a coach now too?
Do you now know what I meant by that? Him being in the starting lineup now?!? You're just being stupid and trying to argue to just to argue now by disregarding everything else I said
So when we had a hobbled Ray Allen in the starting lineup during the EFCs last year and had outstanding team defense, does that mean Ray Allen's defense on a bad ankle was so great that it caused us to become a defensive juggernaut instead of a poor defensive team?
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Team defense takes a team effort and so everyone giving a better defensive effort over the last three games deserves the credit for the turnaround.
But seeing AB taking the toughest guard as his defensive assignment and putting shut down defense on that player must be inspiring to the rest of his team mates and so I think its not going to hurt to say that his return might have sparked something in the team to perform better as a whole.
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using ray allen in the playoffs isnt the best argument...because even while we still played solid defense, the stats from the playoffs show that defensively we were better defensively before bradley went out
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using ray allen in the playoffs isnt the best argument...because even while we still played solid defense, the stats from the playoffs show that defensively we were better defensively before bradley went out
Of course we were better defensively with Bradley instead of Ray. The point is though that the difference was not very big. We were still a great defensive team with Ray instead of Bradley, and took the eventual champs to within 5 minutes of beating them in game 7 of the ECFs based heavily on our defense. We didn't need Bradley chasing down Wade to inspire the rest of the team to play defense, they did it anyway. We didn't need Bradley to make our players understand the rotations and trust each other, they did it without him. That's the point of the argument.
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Team defense takes a team effort and so everyone giving a better defensive effort over the last three games deserves the credit for the turnaround.
But seeing AB taking the toughest guard as his defensive assignment and putting shut down defense on that player must be inspiring to the rest of his team mates and so I think its not going to hurt to say that his return might have sparked something in the team to perform better as a whole.
This is all people are saying his defense is HUGE for us and he changes the game on that end, comparing us to other teams of the past or Ray or whatever makes no sense. Doc has said this much all of his teammates have said this much hell even Wade and LeBron have said were a different team with AB but no hpantazo knows better I'm done. Rofl
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Team defense takes a team effort and so everyone giving a better defensive effort over the last three games deserves the credit for the turnaround.
But seeing AB taking the toughest guard as his defensive assignment and putting shut down defense on that player must be inspiring to the rest of his team mates and so I think its not going to hurt to say that his return might have sparked something in the team to perform better as a whole.
This is all people are saying his defense is HUGE for us and he changes the game on that end, comparing us to other teams of the past or Ray or whatever makes no sense. Doc has said this much all of his teammates have said this much hell even Wade and LeBron have said were a different team with AB but no hpantazo knows better I'm done. Rofl
So with your logic if we put Bradley on the Kings they will become a defensive monster because Doc and Rondo said he's a great defender? LOL
I still have not seen an explanation of why our team defense was great even with Ray when Bradley was out.
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Team defense takes a team effort and so everyone giving a better defensive effort over the last three games deserves the credit for the turnaround.
But seeing AB taking the toughest guard as his defensive assignment and putting shut down defense on that player must be inspiring to the rest of his team mates and so I think its not going to hurt to say that his return might have sparked something in the team to perform better as a whole.
This is all people are saying his defense is HUGE for us and he changes the game on that end, comparing us to other teams of the past or Ray or whatever makes no sense. Doc has said this much all of our teammates have said this much hell even Wade and LeBron have said were a different team with AB but no hpantazo knows better I'm done. Rofl
I'm going to give you you're tp and I'm done... because I don't care that they discount what I say but if they aren't going to believe the people who know best (the team), then there is nothing more we can argue.
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For any fellow patriots fan it reminds me of the patriots defense pre/post aqib Talib....whether it's all because of the one player or not it's undeniable the difference and how it's made things fall into place...small sample size though
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it hasn't been Bradley, it's been the entire team coming together and beginning to understand the defense, trust each other, and give a full effort. Washburn's articles have documented this quite well recently. They actually lost the first game Bradley came back, and they lost convincingly to a poor team. I was at that game, and the celtics were awful on both ends of the floor. It's the team as a whole getting fed up with poor losses and trusting in their coach and each other. I'm glad Bradley's back, but he has struggled so far, as expected considering all the time he missed. He looks mediocre at the moment.
Give credit where it's due, to the celtics players finally beginning to trust in Doc and the defensive system.
Are the grizzlies a poor team? That's news to me.
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it hasn't been Bradley, it's been the entire team coming together and beginning to understand the defense, trust each other, and give a full effort. Washburn's articles have documented this quite well recently. They actually lost the first game Bradley came back, and they lost convincingly to a poor team. I was at that game, and the celtics were awful on both ends of the floor. It's the team as a whole getting fed up with poor losses and trusting in their coach and each other. I'm glad Bradley's back, but he has struggled so far, as expected considering all the time he missed. He looks mediocre at the moment.
Give credit where it's due, to the celtics players finally beginning to trust in Doc and the defensive system.
Are the grizzlies a poor team? That's news to me.
Exactly...not to mention you could visibly see a difference with Bradley in the lineup even despite the "convincing loss"
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I was going to stop but then I keep seeing the DUMB argument that we somehow think it's all Bradley... as if we don't know it's the ENTIRE team playing better... I mean, the argument is stupid considering NOT ONE person has said it's all Bradley (forget the people with tongue-in-cheek)!!!
You people are DISCOUNTING the affect AB had on those other players which in turn made them give more effort and also put them back in the roles they are more suited for!!
For examples:
RR was able to go back to working passing lanes instead of having to work so hard fighting over many screens, he doesn't have to pressure the ball as much... AB does great what RR doesn't so RR can go back to doing what he is great at. Please read the article where RR gushed on AB (or any interview after the games)!
Jet can go back to a bench role (where he is more comfortable)... he get's to play with Lee in the second unit which is better for him and Lee. Jet and Lee are our sparks off the bench scoring/defense.
KG and our PF/Centers don't have to help as much off their men, so they can conserve more energy (no one would hedge their men when they would help, that caused problems too)!
AB makes the opponents use more of the clock to start their offensive possessions, then to try and combat that the teams try to get the offense started quicker by letting someone else bring the ball up, that then throws off their offensive sets since the ball is in a place/someone else hands they didn't want it to be! So now you either have a short clock and/or you have a messed up offensive set.
Then you have his energy, which everyone else feeds off of. Like PP said, when AB is out there going hard, it makes me want to go hard too (along those lines)! AB's energy is infectious!
His play does a lot of little things that the box score wont show but I'm glad the team knows his worth even if others don't... that's all that matters! Every team needs a player like AB, no one is suggesting he is the only player that can do this. He just happens to be that guy for our team!
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AB always does take the toughest guard matchup defensively and when Doc wants to push the opposing offense's buttons he always has AB being the guy instigating it by putting on full court pressure.
That causes the other team to start their offense later, start their offense on the wrong side of the court or takes the ball out of the hands of the opposition's best passer.
It really is the catalyst for the Celtics defense being so dominant since AB has been getting big starters' minutes. So his return probably did spark his team mates into playing better defense as did the horrible performances they had given in that department recently.
Either way, the C's defense since Bradley's return is clearly evident and is probably because of both his return and because of a better overall effort from the entire team on the defensive end.
Everything else is chicken and egg argument as to what came first.
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it seemed to me that when AB was defending the PG, the other teams' offenses were out of sync. It is a lot easier for the rest of the team to play great team defense for 14 seconds than 19. When the other team can't get into their sets until halfway through the shot clock, the defense only has to make two plays to get a stop.
When there's no ball pressure, the defense has to cover and recover three or four times. That's when a team that moves the ball gets either an open three or a paint shot, the two best shots in basketball.
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Note that Bradley has played 20, 23, and 20 minutes in these first 3 games. He is capable of 35.
If indeed he is having the impact many of us think he is having, this is happening before he is 100% and with him playing only a bit more than half of what he'll be playing come playoff time. Bradley may be really changing the dynamics or many of us may be really grasping at straws, but I am looking forward to seeing how it plays out.
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The clincher is not what is happening now, it is the fact that he already did this last year. This is what was expected and he delivered. There is no speculation here, AB delivered what was expected of him. No one can take away from him the impact he has had on this team through his defense.
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Note that Bradley has played 20, 23, and 20 minutes in these first 3 games. He is capable of 35.
If indeed he is having the impact many of us think he is having, this is happening before he is 100% and with him playing only a bit more than half of what he'll be playing come playoff time. Bradley may be really changing the dynamics or many of us may be really grasping at straws, but I am looking forward to seeing how it plays out.
I agree. But if we are grasping at straws then PP, RR, Doc, KG, Jet, Sully... heck, anyone who does interviews about the team is too!
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Bradley's biggest effect is he offers some protection for Rondo on the defensive end.
This is similar to how Pierce would provide a blanket for Ray's inefficiencies and similar to how Perk and KG covered up for one another too.
With the way Doc sets up KG's playing stints, our first unit and 2nd unit should not lose too much on the defensive side of things. The offense is another story.