Author Topic: Once Zion is in the NBA...  (Read 6623 times)

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Re: Once Zion is in the NBA...
« Reply #45 on: March 15, 2019, 10:17:56 PM »

Offline gouki88

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It’s a back to back, but he looks tired out there... hope he has a better second half to make this a game.
Yeah, I think the back-to-back after his first game is definitely tiring. Not to mention Roy Williams runs his Tar Heels at a fast pace, and uses his bench quite a lot.

Cam Reddish has not played well at all
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Once Zion is in the NBA...
« Reply #46 on: March 15, 2019, 10:26:21 PM »

Offline Goldstar88

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It’s a back to back, but he looks tired out there... hope he has a better second half to make this a game.
Yeah, I think the back-to-back after his first game is definitely tiring. Not to mention Roy Williams runs his Tar Heels at a fast pace, and uses his bench quite a lot.

Cam Reddish has not played well at all

Guess he got a second wind..
Quoting Nick from the now locked Ime thread:
Quote
At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.

Re: Once Zion is in the NBA...
« Reply #47 on: March 15, 2019, 10:38:38 PM »

Offline Somebody

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Consider me in the camp that think that Zion is a special case.

His ceiling is a top 5 player

His likely outcome is a Top 20 Player

His floor is out of the league because his body couldn't hold up. -I don't see a world where a healthy Zion Williamson isn't a force in the NBA-

Zion has the potential to have the highest gravity since Shaq. We always hear about floor spacing shooters opening up the driving lanes for cutters. I remember however reading an article about how AD and Mavs era Tyson Chandler have a similar effect on opposing defenses but they instead draw attention from their gravity. The threat to lob opens up the shooting lanes around the basket any time the high grav player makes a hard cut or is in position for a put back. Zion Williamson has crushing gravity.

He's going to enter the league as the second heaviest player to Boban. I see a lot of people touting his use of 'Bully Ball' as if it's not going to work at the NBA level. Frankly I don't think bully ball is the right moniker for how he generates points and rebounds.

Zion Williamson is a high character kid coming from good parents, he doesn't fit the personality type of the typical guys that thrive off bullying smaller players. What he does do is exert his will and might on every situation that he's out there, he must always be accounted for or else your not far from a lob or athletic putback.

Bully Ball implies that he'll run into bigger players that will negate his presence. I'm saying from day one you'll be able to count on one hand the guys that can check him and I don't see one guy that will flat negate him save for maybe Embiid. He's too strong, too fast, too athletic. If he cant go around you, he'll go above you. If he cant go above you he'll go through you.

The final thing that I think separates Zion from the typical max contract player is that you don't need to run your offense through him for Zion to thrive. He's proven at Duke that he doesn't need the majority of the plays run for him or shots to be a force. Guys like Blake Griffin are fine players but they need their shots and in general the ball in their hand to create for themselves and others. Zion is more the type of guy you stick next to a Westbrook or a Harden type and let him find his points and rebounds while your high volume shooter eats up the possessions. 

I'm all in on Zion and have been since I thought there was a chance to grab him with the Sac Pick.
I didn't mean bully ball as in someone will/can negate him-I believe he'll bully almost the entire NBA.
Jaylen Brown for All-NBA

Re: Once Zion is in the NBA...
« Reply #48 on: March 15, 2019, 10:43:19 PM »

Offline Goldstar88

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Consider me in the camp that think that Zion is a special case.

His ceiling is a top 5 player

His likely outcome is a Top 20 Player

His floor is out of the league because his body couldn't hold up. -I don't see a world where a healthy Zion Williamson isn't a force in the NBA-

Zion has the potential to have the highest gravity since Shaq. We always hear about floor spacing shooters opening up the driving lanes for cutters. I remember however reading an article about how AD and Mavs era Tyson Chandler have a similar effect on opposing defenses but they instead draw attention from their gravity. The threat to lob opens up the shooting lanes around the basket any time the high grav player makes a hard cut or is in position for a put back. Zion Williamson has crushing gravity.

He's going to enter the league as the second heaviest player to Boban. I see a lot of people touting his use of 'Bully Ball' as if it's not going to work at the NBA level. Frankly I don't think bully ball is the right moniker for how he generates points and rebounds.

Zion Williamson is a high character kid coming from good parents, he doesn't fit the personality type of the typical guys that thrive off bullying smaller players. What he does do is exert his will and might on every situation that he's out there, he must always be accounted for or else your not far from a lob or athletic putback.

Bully Ball implies that he'll run into bigger players that will negate his presence. I'm saying from day one you'll be able to count on one hand the guys that can check him and I don't see one guy that will flat negate him save for maybe Embiid. He's too strong, too fast, too athletic. If he cant go around you, he'll go above you. If he cant go above you he'll go through you.

The final thing that I think separates Zion from the typical max contract player is that you don't need to run your offense through him for Zion to thrive. He's proven at Duke that he doesn't need the majority of the plays run for him or shots to be a force. Guys like Blake Griffin are fine players but they need their shots and in general the ball in their hand to create for themselves and others. Zion is more the type of guy you stick next to a Westbrook or a Harden type and let him find his points and rebounds while your high volume shooter eats up the possessions. 

I'm all in on Zion and have been since I thought there was a chance to grab him with the Sac Pick.
I didn't mean bully ball as in someone will/can negate him-I believe he'll bully almost the entire NBA.

Idk about that.. think North Carolina is doing a pretty good job keeping him out of the paint. He made a couple 3’s which was good to see, but he’s not abusing them by any means.
Quoting Nick from the now locked Ime thread:
Quote
At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.

Re: Once Zion is in the NBA...
« Reply #49 on: March 15, 2019, 11:10:14 PM »

Offline Sophomore

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Consider me in the camp that think that Zion is a special case.

His ceiling is a top 5 player

His likely outcome is a Top 20 Player

His floor is out of the league because his body couldn't hold up. -I don't see a world where a healthy Zion Williamson isn't a force in the NBA-

Zion has the potential to have the highest gravity since Shaq. We always hear about floor spacing shooters opening up the driving lanes for cutters. I remember however reading an article about how AD and Mavs era Tyson Chandler have a similar effect on opposing defenses but they instead draw attention from their gravity. The threat to lob opens up the shooting lanes around the basket any time the high grav player makes a hard cut or is in position for a put back. Zion Williamson has crushing gravity.

He's going to enter the league as the second heaviest player to Boban. I see a lot of people touting his use of 'Bully Ball' as if it's not going to work at the NBA level. Frankly I don't think bully ball is the right moniker for how he generates points and rebounds.

Zion Williamson is a high character kid coming from good parents, he doesn't fit the personality type of the typical guys that thrive off bullying smaller players. What he does do is exert his will and might on every situation that he's out there, he must always be accounted for or else your not far from a lob or athletic putback.

Bully Ball implies that he'll run into bigger players that will negate his presence. I'm saying from day one you'll be able to count on one hand the guys that can check him and I don't see one guy that will flat negate him save for maybe Embiid. He's too strong, too fast, too athletic. If he cant go around you, he'll go above you. If he cant go above you he'll go through you.

The final thing that I think separates Zion from the typical max contract player is that you don't need to run your offense through him for Zion to thrive. He's proven at Duke that he doesn't need the majority of the plays run for him or shots to be a force. Guys like Blake Griffin are fine players but they need their shots and in general the ball in their hand to create for themselves and others. Zion is more the type of guy you stick next to a Westbrook or a Harden type and let him find his points and rebounds while your high volume shooter eats up the possessions. 

I'm all in on Zion and have been since I thought there was a chance to grab him with the Sac Pick.
I didn't mean bully ball as in someone will/can negate him-I believe he'll bully almost the entire NBA.

Idk about that.. think North Carolina is doing a pretty good job keeping him out of the paint. He made a couple 3’s which was good to see, but he’s not abusing them by any means.

He’s currently 9-13 for 22 points, with 9 boards.

What’s really holding him down is his teammates - empty possessions where the guards dribble to nowhere til the clock runs out.

I’m guessing he’s saving his energy until the last few minutes.

Re: Once Zion is in the NBA...
« Reply #50 on: March 15, 2019, 11:15:32 PM »

Offline Sophomore

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Consider me in the camp that think that Zion is a special case.

His ceiling is a top 5 player

His likely outcome is a Top 20 Player

His floor is out of the league because his body couldn't hold up. -I don't see a world where a healthy Zion Williamson isn't a force in the NBA-

Zion has the potential to have the highest gravity since Shaq. We always hear about floor spacing shooters opening up the driving lanes for cutters. I remember however reading an article about how AD and Mavs era Tyson Chandler have a similar effect on opposing defenses but they instead draw attention from their gravity. The threat to lob opens up the shooting lanes around the basket any time the high grav player makes a hard cut or is in position for a put back. Zion Williamson has crushing gravity.

He's going to enter the league as the second heaviest player to Boban. I see a lot of people touting his use of 'Bully Ball' as if it's not going to work at the NBA level. Frankly I don't think bully ball is the right moniker for how he generates points and rebounds.

Zion Williamson is a high character kid coming from good parents, he doesn't fit the personality type of the typical guys that thrive off bullying smaller players. What he does do is exert his will and might on every situation that he's out there, he must always be accounted for or else your not far from a lob or athletic putback.

Bully Ball implies that he'll run into bigger players that will negate his presence. I'm saying from day one you'll be able to count on one hand the guys that can check him and I don't see one guy that will flat negate him save for maybe Embiid. He's too strong, too fast, too athletic. If he cant go around you, he'll go above you. If he cant go above you he'll go through you.

The final thing that I think separates Zion from the typical max contract player is that you don't need to run your offense through him for Zion to thrive. He's proven at Duke that he doesn't need the majority of the plays run for him or shots to be a force. Guys like Blake Griffin are fine players but they need their shots and in general the ball in their hand to create for themselves and others. Zion is more the type of guy you stick next to a Westbrook or a Harden type and let him find his points and rebounds while your high volume shooter eats up the possessions. 

I'm all in on Zion and have been since I thought there was a chance to grab him with the Sac Pick.
I didn't mean bully ball as in someone will/can negate him-I believe he'll bully almost the entire NBA.

Idk about that.. think North Carolina is doing a pretty good job keeping him out of the paint. He made a couple 3’s which was good to see, but he’s not abusing them by any means.

He’s currently 9-13 for 22 points, with 9 boards.

What’s really holding him down is his teammates - empty possessions where the guards dribble to nowhere til the clock runs out.

I’m guessing he’s saving his energy until the last few minutes.

Update: ZW is 11-15 after two really nice takes - including taking Nassir Little into the paint and giving him a back-to-the-basket spin move and then finishing with a soft touch. He also drew two fouls on tar heels tying tokeep him off the boards.

Final update - 13-19, 31 pts, including the game-winner. 11 boards, altered or blocked 3 shots the last few minutes.  Reddish and Barrett were held in check and well below average.  He absolutely carried them this game.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2019, 11:36:27 PM by Sophomore »

Re: Once Zion is in the NBA...
« Reply #51 on: March 15, 2019, 11:37:43 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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zion had a great Barkley like game .  Gonna be star in the nba for sure.

Re: Once Zion is in the NBA...
« Reply #52 on: March 16, 2019, 12:08:40 AM »

Offline gouki88

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Man, he crushed North Carolina in the second half. The recovery to get the offensive rebound and tip it in (after Nassir Little defended him excellently) was crazy. White and Maye never stood a chance to get that board
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Once Zion is in the NBA...
« Reply #53 on: March 16, 2019, 09:50:56 PM »

Offline Goldstar88

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Wow, I didn’t think he could pass like that. Impressive.
Quoting Nick from the now locked Ime thread:
Quote
At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.

Re: Once Zion is in the NBA...
« Reply #54 on: March 19, 2019, 10:32:03 AM »

Offline Smartacus

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Consider me in the camp that think that Zion is a special case.

His ceiling is a top 5 player

His likely outcome is a Top 20 Player

His floor is out of the league because his body couldn't hold up. -I don't see a world where a healthy Zion Williamson isn't a force in the NBA-

Zion has the potential to have the highest gravity since Shaq. We always hear about floor spacing shooters opening up the driving lanes for cutters. I remember however reading an article about how AD and Mavs era Tyson Chandler have a similar effect on opposing defenses but they instead draw attention from their gravity. The threat to lob opens up the shooting lanes around the basket any time the high grav player makes a hard cut or is in position for a put back. Zion Williamson has crushing gravity.

He's going to enter the league as the second heaviest player to Boban. I see a lot of people touting his use of 'Bully Ball' as if it's not going to work at the NBA level. Frankly I don't think bully ball is the right moniker for how he generates points and rebounds.

Zion Williamson is a high character kid coming from good parents, he doesn't fit the personality type of the typical guys that thrive off bullying smaller players. What he does do is exert his will and might on every situation that he's out there, he must always be accounted for or else your not far from a lob or athletic putback.

Bully Ball implies that he'll run into bigger players that will negate his presence. I'm saying from day one you'll be able to count on one hand the guys that can check him and I don't see one guy that will flat negate him save for maybe Embiid. He's too strong, too fast, too athletic. If he cant go around you, he'll go above you. If he cant go above you he'll go through you.

The final thing that I think separates Zion from the typical max contract player is that you don't need to run your offense through him for Zion to thrive. He's proven at Duke that he doesn't need the majority of the plays run for him or shots to be a force. Guys like Blake Griffin are fine players but they need their shots and in general the ball in their hand to create for themselves and others. Zion is more the type of guy you stick next to a Westbrook or a Harden type and let him find his points and rebounds while your high volume shooter eats up the possessions. 

I'm all in on Zion and have been since I thought there was a chance to grab him with the Sac Pick.
I didn't mean bully ball as in someone will/can negate him-I believe he'll bully almost the entire NBA.

Idk about that.. think North Carolina is doing a pretty good job keeping him out of the paint. He made a couple 3’s which was good to see, but he’s not abusing them by any means.

He’s currently 9-13 for 22 points, with 9 boards.

What’s really holding him down is his teammates - empty possessions where the guards dribble to nowhere til the clock runs out.

I’m guessing he’s saving his energy until the last few minutes.

Update: ZW is 11-15 after two really nice takes - including taking Nassir Little into the paint and giving him a back-to-the-basket spin move and then finishing with a soft touch. He also drew two fouls on tar heels tying tokeep him off the boards.

Final update - 13-19, 31 pts, including the game-winner. 11 boards, altered or blocked 3 shots the last few minutes.  Reddish and Barrett were held in check and well below average.  He absolutely carried them this game.

Haven't looked at this thread in a few days, funny to see that you guys live posted the incredible comeback.

Of course this is one isolated game but I think it illustrates pretty well how good I think Zion can be. Nassir Little may not have had the best season but he has made it a life goal in his early career to shut down Zion.

I think Williamson has shown he can be borderline unstoppable when he needs to be. He's going to wear on even the best defenses who most of the time will either not have have the bulk to keep him out of the paint or the speed to keep up with him on the perimeter.

That being said I also think he definitely needs quality scoring options around him, preferably at least 1 top 10 perimeter scoring option in the league to reach his potential.