Author Topic: Per Woj: Danny is active on the phones.....  (Read 35527 times)

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Re: Per Woj: Danny is active on the phones.....
« Reply #135 on: December 17, 2014, 11:33:55 AM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Maybe danny has offered bass and thorton for Stephenson . lol

Even if he doesnt trade Green ot Rondo or both(could end up being a mistake) he has to trade Bass and Thornton for something worse case.  Cant see either being brought back for next season

Re: Per Woj: Danny is active on the phones.....
« Reply #136 on: December 17, 2014, 11:37:29 AM »

Offline Monkhouse

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Put the spreadsheets away and step down from the ledge.  Rondo is not as good as Steph Curry.  You couldn't trade Rondo and 3 first round picks for Curry right now.  Literally.  GSW decline.

Curry might get us like 3 or 4 more wins; if even that due to our terrible defense. Curry is a score first point while Rondo is the best passing PG. GSW may be a contender, but I don't see them beating the Grizz/Spurs or OKC in 7 game series.

Put players like Melo or Hibbert, and Rondo can flourish.
No.


Very debatable. It doesn't even matter if you have one superstar. In this league you need at least 2 and a decent bench.
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Re: Per Woj: Danny is active on the phones.....
« Reply #137 on: December 17, 2014, 11:39:42 AM »

Offline Donoghus

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Put the spreadsheets away and step down from the ledge.  Rondo is not as good as Steph Curry.  You couldn't trade Rondo and 3 first round picks for Curry right now.  Literally.  GSW decline.

I bet you could for that price.  Although, Golden State could waffle because of their hot start and possible chemistry issues. 


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Re: Per Woj: Danny is active on the phones.....
« Reply #138 on: December 17, 2014, 11:40:56 AM »

Offline PickNRoll

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Put the spreadsheets away and step down from the ledge.  Rondo is not as good as Steph Curry.  You couldn't trade Rondo and 3 first round picks for Curry right now.  Literally.  GSW decline.

I bet you could for that price.  Although, Golden State could waffle because of their hot start and possible chemistry issues.
I think they say no, but that's probably where they start listening.  What does that tell you?

Re: Per Woj: Danny is active on the phones.....
« Reply #139 on: December 17, 2014, 11:42:21 AM »

Offline Donoghus

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Put the spreadsheets away and step down from the ledge.  Rondo is not as good as Steph Curry.  You couldn't trade Rondo and 3 first round picks for Curry right now.  Literally.  GSW decline.

I bet you could for that price.  Although, Golden State could waffle because of their hot start and possible chemistry issues.
I think they say no, but that's probably where they start listening.  What does that tell you?

It tells me that a package of Rondo & 3 first rounders would be something that Golden State would take into consideration and not something that couldn't be done.


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Re: Per Woj: Danny is active on the phones.....
« Reply #140 on: December 17, 2014, 11:42:36 AM »

Offline Monkhouse

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Put the spreadsheets away and step down from the ledge.  Rondo is not as good as Steph Curry.  You couldn't trade Rondo and 3 first round picks for Curry right now.  Literally.  GSW decline.

I bet you could for that price.  Although, Golden State could waffle because of their hot start and possible chemistry issues.
I think they say no, but that's probably where they start listening.  What does that tell you?

That just like a few users here, you're not a huge fan of Rondo.

3 first rounders especially if 2 are Nets are extremely valuable... Superstars in the past have been traded for less...
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Can't define how I be dropping these mockeries."

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Re: Per Woj: Danny is active on the phones.....
« Reply #141 on: December 17, 2014, 11:43:35 AM »

Offline Greenback

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Golden State would not trade Curry for Rondo - what are you people thinking?
Everyone wants truth on his side, not everyone wants to be on the side of truth.

Re: Per Woj: Danny is active on the phones.....
« Reply #142 on: December 17, 2014, 11:44:27 AM »

Offline Donoghus

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Golden State would not trade Curry for Rondo - what are you people thinking?

You understand that the scenario is not a straight up Rondo for Curry trade, right?


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Re: Per Woj: Danny is active on the phones.....
« Reply #143 on: December 17, 2014, 11:48:10 AM »

Offline mmmmm

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It'd take way too long to challenge you on every objection you just raised, but here's one that really boggles my mind: you really don't think Steph Curry is better than Rondo at this point?

Well, I pondered this question and all the related ones (Is Deron Williams better than Rondo? Is Kyrie Irving better than Rondo? Etc., etc.), input some numbers and came out with the following answer:

http://www.celticsblog.com/2014/12/17/7406937/ranking-point-guards-at-the-quarter-pole-an-analytic-approach

The short answer would be:  If you ignore defense, then right now, yep, Steph Curry is probably just barely slightly better than Rondo right now.  I have his net point impact per 36 at the top of the list at 39.2 points per 36.  But Rondo's impact is only slightly behind in 3rd at 37.1.

This rating gives credit for points scored, assists and rebounds and penalizes for turnovers and missed shots.

Just keep in mind that this evaluation is being done with Rondo shooting _way_ below his career norms, to which is likely to eventually regress upwards to.  That could add 2-4 points to his per-36 average.  That alone might push Rondo's net point impact rating up above Curry's.

And seriously?  Rondo's defense is definitely worth more than Curry's.

Here are the resulting ratings as of Monday night's games.  See the link up above for the math.

Player         NetPointImpact/36
Stephen Curry      39.2
Chris Paul         38.5
Rajon Rondo        37.1
John Wall          36.8
James Harden       35.2
Kyle Lowry         34.9
Ty Lawson          33.3
Jeff Teague        32.3
Damian Lillard     31.9
Dwyane Wade        31.7
M. Carter-Williams 31.2
Mike Conley        29.4
Eric Bledsoe       29.1
Jrue Holiday       28.5
Brandon Knight     28.1
Derrick Rose       27.4
Deron Williams     27.2
Tyreke Evans       27.1
Tony Parker        27.0
Brandon Jennings   26.6
Darren Collison    26.4
Kyrie Irving       26.3
Tony Wroten        26.2
Reggie Jackson     26.1
Mo Williams        26.0
Kemba Walker       24.2
Trey Burke         20.2

If I were to take defense into consideration (other than rebounds, which are already accounted for) I would probably put Paul #1, followed by Rondo and then Curry.  Especially if you factor in strength of schedule (Rondo has played against a much harder schedule so far than either Paul or Curry - especially Curry.  GSW has played the 4th easiest schedule so far.).

But even ignoring defense, it is pretty clear that as measured by raw production stats, Rondo is clearly still among the top handful of point guards in the NBA and most of the spew in this thread claiming he is "not even top 30" in the NBA is just hyperbole.

This was a pretty straightforward analysis and I suspect that Danny & Brad's evaluations are at least as sophisticated.  I would bet their sense of Rondo's value is a LOT different than that of several of the bloggers on this board.

TP for the analysis.

Your choice of stats and allocation of weight to each stat is biased to Rondo's style of play in numerous ways, two of which I have the intellect to explain at 4:30 A.M.:

It penalizes other players for missed shots more so than Rondo is penalized for not taking enough shots to be considered as highly as most of those players are. We'll continue the Steph Curry theme of this discussion. Rondo takes, and therefore misses, far less shots than Steph Curry does and yet Rondo does not shoot any more efficiently than Curry does. It is my opinion that you get around this by measuring total missed shots vs. shot efficiency.

It credits players for the entirety of the total points scored off their assist, which is typically nearly double and in some cases triple what you weigh a single turnover. This sort of analysis presumes that without the assist the points would not be scored in the same direct fashion that it is presumed without a player taking and making a shot that the shot's resulting points would not otherwise be scored. I do not assess an assist to have the same point value as a made basket and I am assuming most other advanced metrics don't either, which is why Rondo is ranked so poorly, particularly on offense, by typical advanced metrics this season.

Your analysis pegs Rondo as a top 3 PG while most other statistical analysis suggests he's fighting for a top 20 spot at the position. I'm guessing his value is somewhere in the middle (I rank him around 12th in the league). I also find it hard to believe Danny and Brad are as high on Rondo as you seem to think when Danny has tried to trade Rondo numerous times (CP3, Steph Curry, Sac-Town offer last year that Rondo killed) and Brad has been steadily decreasing his minutes. Within two months of Rondo's return last season, Brad played him about 36 minutes a game to close out the season. In the month of November this average fell to about 32.5 mpg. Now in December Rondo is averaging about 30 mpg. That doesn't sound like a player valued as a top 3 positional talent by his GM and coach.

Yeah, because how are guys like Bradley or Thornton going to score in the exact same fashion off of a pin down or whatever unless Rondo gets them the ball exactly when they come off of said pick?  I know that the definition of an assist has changed over time, but still, how would guys get a layup in transition off of a left handed bounce pass from half court if Rondo doesn't thread that needle?  Give the man his due.  He's somehow leading the league in assists on this craptastic excuse for a team.  And why am I still up, lol? ;D

That's not what is indicated in his on-court/off-court numbers in addition to other statistics. A scorer as dominant as Rondo is a passer rarely, if ever posts a net negative on-court/off-court offensive split. Yet the Celtics this year are scoring almost two more points per 100 possessions per 48 minutes when Rondo leaves the court according to 82games: http://www.82games.com/1415/14BOS1.HTM

Rondo also has -0.2 offensive win shares this offseason, which, to summarize, is not good. His offensive rating is 95, the lowest of his career.

On-Off is heavily affected by teammates and opponents and thus is a stat that doesn't "settle" enough be used as an individual stat without a huge sample size and even then, you have to pay close attention to context, such as whether the minutes are predominately as a starter or bench and against starters or bench.

Even the most casual glance at the 5-man units on the very page you looked at:

http://www.82games.com/1415/14BOS1.HTM#5man

should be enough to make it clear just how much impact on an individuals' plus/minus the make up of his teammates on the floor can be.

The strength of schedule is also a factor here that folks don't seem to appreciate.   The Celtics played one of the top 4 toughest schedules through November.  It has gotten much easier in December, but still, overall, they have played a much tougher schedule than say, GSW, which has played the 4th easiest schedule to this date.   When you play a tougher schedule, the team's stats overall will be impacted, correct?  That is, the team will give up more points and score fewer points than if they had a played an easier schedule.  By definition, winning requires scoring more points than the opposition so that has to follow.  Do you disagree with that assertion?   Along with relative suppression of scoring, all related stats for the team will also be impacted, such as assists, rebounds, etc., etc.    All this is backed up by the correlations you see in team standings and statistics.  Teams that win tend to have better overall team stats than teams that lose.

Now, team stats are ultimately the aggregate of individual stats.  If the team stats are negatively impacted by the strength of schedule, it follows directly that so too will be the stats of the individuals on the team.

Going back to the above 5-man units, the unit Rondo has spent the most time with is the RR+AB+JG+JS+Olynyk line up that we started the season with as our starters.  That unit has a net rating of -.01 per possession.  Not great, but not bad either.   His next most used lineup seemingly just swaps in Zeller in place of Olynyk and *presto*, they have a net rating of +.15 per possession!   That's a huge, dramatic swing!

If Rondo is so bad, how can one unit post such great numbers?

Now, the simplistic conclusion from that is that swapping Zeller for Olynyk resulted in the huge swing - but its not that simple. 

Looking further down the list, we see another configuration that seemingly does nothing more than swap Zeller and Olynyk (with the foursome of RR+AB+JG+Bass) that has the complete _opposite_ result.  In that case, it is the _Olynyk_ configuration which is awesome compared to the Zeller one!

The truth is that this is the result of our skewed schedule.  The Olynyk starters configuration was used mostly during our brutal run through the very top teams in the NBA in November.  Primarily against the starters on the top teams in the NBA.  The Zeller starters configuration has been mostly since then against MUCH easier competition.   Similarly, the two 'Bass" configurations also were used inversely as they represent the bench big substitution overlap.  In November, Bass+Zeller would be the two bench bigs overlapping with RR+AB+JG.  In December that has changed to Bass+Olynyk - against much easier competition.

Once you are aware of these things it becomes apparent that regardless of Olynyk or Zeller, that the Celtic starters basically played very close to even with the starters of the top teams in the NBA and have generally crushed the starters of the crappy teams of the NBA. 

So, the net point of all this is that the stats you have cited are really, truly heavily skewed due to small sample size and the front-loaded schedule.   They don't really inform you of what you seem to think they are informing you.  You have to look into them carefully and consider the contexts.

This understanding of what is going on with the schedule and the lineups and the impact they have on the various statistics is, again, a pretty straightforward analysis that I'm pretty sure Danny and Brad are aware of and take into account in their evaluations.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2014, 12:02:48 PM by mmmmm »
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Re: Per Woj: Danny is active on the phones.....
« Reply #144 on: December 17, 2014, 11:50:15 AM »

Offline PickNRoll

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Put the spreadsheets away and step down from the ledge.  Rondo is not as good as Steph Curry.  You couldn't trade Rondo and 3 first round picks for Curry right now.  Literally.  GSW decline.

I bet you could for that price.  Although, Golden State could waffle because of their hot start and possible chemistry issues.
I think they say no, but that's probably where they start listening.  What does that tell you?

That just like a few users here, you're not a huge fan of Rondo.

3 first rounders especially if 2 are Nets are extremely valuable... Superstars in the past have been traded for less...
I love Rondo.  True Celtic.  However...

Curry is making a strong case for league MVP.  He's one step below Lebron and Anthony Davis in the "completely untouchable don't even bother picking up the phone" category.  The Warriors have 3 losses.  There is no way, no how they're letting Curry go.  You can make lottery picks for a decade and never end up with a Steph Curry caliber player.

Re: Per Woj: Danny is active on the phones.....
« Reply #145 on: December 17, 2014, 11:54:21 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Put the spreadsheets away and step down from the ledge.  Rondo is not as good as Steph Curry.  You couldn't trade Rondo and 3 first round picks for Curry right now.  Literally.  GSW decline.

I bet you could for that price.  Although, Golden State could waffle because of their hot start and possible chemistry issues.
I think they say no, but that's probably where they start listening.  What does that tell you?

That just like a few users here, you're not a huge fan of Rondo.

3 first rounders especially if 2 are Nets are extremely valuable... Superstars in the past have been traded for less...
I love Rondo.  True Celtic.  However...

Curry is making a strong case for league MVP.  He's one step below Lebron and Anthony Davis in the "completely untouchable don't even bother picking up the phone" category.  The Warriors have 3 losses.  There is no way, no how they're letting Curry go.  You can make lottery picks for a decade and never end up with a Steph Curry caliber player.

Just ask David Kahn.
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Re: Per Woj: Danny is active on the phones.....
« Reply #146 on: December 17, 2014, 11:54:28 AM »

Offline Monkhouse

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It'd take way too long to challenge you on every objection you just raised, but here's one that really boggles my mind: you really don't think Steph Curry is better than Rondo at this point?

Well, I pondered this question and all the related ones (Is Deron Williams better than Rondo? Is Kyrie Irving better than Rondo? Etc., etc.), input some numbers and came out with the following answer:

http://www.celticsblog.com/2014/12/17/7406937/ranking-point-guards-at-the-quarter-pole-an-analytic-approach

The short answer would be:  If you ignore defense, then right now, yep, Steph Curry is probably just barely slightly better than Rondo right now.  I have his net point impact per 36 at the top of the list at 39.2 points per 36.  But Rondo's impact is only slightly behind in 3rd at 37.1.

This rating gives credit for points scored, assists and rebounds and penalizes for turnovers and missed shots.

Just keep in mind that this evaluation is being done with Rondo shooting _way_ below his career norms, to which is likely to eventually regress upwards to.  That could add 2-4 points to his per-36 average.  That alone might push Rondo's net point impact rating up above Curry's.

And seriously?  Rondo's defense is definitely worth more than Curry's.

Here are the resulting ratings as of Monday night's games.  See the link up above for the math.

Player         NetPointImpact/36
Stephen Curry      39.2
Chris Paul         38.5
Rajon Rondo        37.1
John Wall          36.8
James Harden       35.2
Kyle Lowry         34.9
Ty Lawson          33.3
Jeff Teague        32.3
Damian Lillard     31.9
Dwyane Wade        31.7
M. Carter-Williams 31.2
Mike Conley        29.4
Eric Bledsoe       29.1
Jrue Holiday       28.5
Brandon Knight     28.1
Derrick Rose       27.4
Deron Williams     27.2
Tyreke Evans       27.1
Tony Parker        27.0
Brandon Jennings   26.6
Darren Collison    26.4
Kyrie Irving       26.3
Tony Wroten        26.2
Reggie Jackson     26.1
Mo Williams        26.0
Kemba Walker       24.2
Trey Burke         20.2

If I were to take defense into consideration (other than rebounds, which are already accounted for) I would probably put Paul #1, followed by Rondo and then Curry.  Especially if you factor in strength of schedule (Rondo has played against a much harder schedule so far than either Paul or Curry - especially Curry.  GSW has played the 4th easiest schedule so far.).

But even ignoring defense, it is pretty clear that as measured by raw production stats, Rondo is clearly still among the top handful of point guards in the NBA and most of the spew in this thread claiming he is "not even top 30" in the NBA is just hyperbole.

This was a pretty straightforward analysis and I suspect that Danny & Brad's evaluations are at least as sophisticated.  I would bet their sense of Rondo's value is a LOT different than that of several of the bloggers on this board.

TP for the analysis.

Your choice of stats and allocation of weight to each stat is biased to Rondo's style of play in numerous ways, two of which I have the intellect to explain at 4:30 A.M.:

It penalizes other players for missed shots more so than Rondo is penalized for not taking enough shots to be considered as highly as most of those players are. We'll continue the Steph Curry theme of this discussion. Rondo takes, and therefore misses, far less shots than Steph Curry does and yet Rondo does not shoot any more efficiently than Curry does. It is my opinion that you get around this by measuring total missed shots vs. shot efficiency.

It credits players for the entirety of the total points scored off their assist, which is typically nearly double and in some cases triple what you weigh a single turnover. This sort of analysis presumes that without the assist the points would not be scored in the same direct fashion that it is presumed without a player taking and making a shot that the shot's resulting points would not otherwise be scored. I do not assess an assist to have the same point value as a made basket and I am assuming most other advanced metrics don't either, which is why Rondo is ranked so poorly, particularly on offense, by typical advanced metrics this season.

Your analysis pegs Rondo as a top 3 PG while most other statistical analysis suggests he's fighting for a top 20 spot at the position. I'm guessing his value is somewhere in the middle (I rank him around 12th in the league). I also find it hard to believe Danny and Brad are as high on Rondo as you seem to think when Danny has tried to trade Rondo numerous times (CP3, Steph Curry, Sac-Town offer last year that Rondo killed) and Brad has been steadily decreasing his minutes. Within two months of Rondo's return last season, Brad played him about 36 minutes a game to close out the season. In the month of November this average fell to about 32.5 mpg. Now in December Rondo is averaging about 30 mpg. That doesn't sound like a player valued as a top 3 positional talent by his GM and coach.

Yeah, because how are guys like Bradley or Thornton going to score in the exact same fashion off of a pin down or whatever unless Rondo gets them the ball exactly when they come off of said pick?  I know that the definition of an assist has changed over time, but still, how would guys get a layup in transition off of a left handed bounce pass from half court if Rondo doesn't thread that needle?  Give the man his due.  He's somehow leading the league in assists on this craptastic excuse for a team.  And why am I still up, lol? ;D

That's not what is indicated in his on-court/off-court numbers in addition to other statistics. A scorer as dominant as Rondo is a passer rarely, if ever posts a net negative on-court/off-court offensive split. Yet the Celtics this year are scoring almost two more points per 100 possessions per 48 minutes when Rondo leaves the court according to 82games: http://www.82games.com/1415/14BOS1.HTM

Rondo also has -0.2 offensive win shares this offseason, which, to summarize, is not good. His offensive rating is 95, the lowest of his career.

On-Off is heavily affected by teammates and opponents and thus is a stat that doesn't "settle" enough be used as an individual stat without a huge sample size and even then, you have to pay close attention to context, such as whether the minutes are predominately as a starter or bench and against starters or bench.

Even the most casual glance at the 5-man units on the very page you looked at:

http://www.82games.com/1415/14BOS1.HTM#5man

should be enough to make it clear just how much impact on an individuals' plus/minus the make up of his teammates on the floor can be.

The strength of schedule is also a factor here that folks don't seem to appreciate.   The Celtics played one of the top 4 toughest schedules through November.  It has gotten much easier in December, but still, overall, they have played a much tougher schedule than say, GSW, which has played the 4th easiest schedule to this date.   When you play a tougher schedule, the team's stats overall will be impacted, correct?  That is, the team will give up more points and score fewer points than if they had a played an easier schedule.  By definition, winning requires scoring more points than the opposition so that has to follow.  Do you disagree with that assertion?   Along with relative suppression of scoring, all related stats for the team will also be impacted, such as assists, rebounds, etc., etc.    All this is backed up by the correlations you see in team standings and statistics.  Teams that win tend to have better overall team stats than teams that lose.

Now, team stats are ultimately the aggregate of individual stats.  If the team stats are negatively impacted by the strength of schedule, it follows directly that so too will be the stats of the individuals on the team.

Going back to the above 5-man units, the unit Rondo has spent the most time with is the RR+AB+JG+JS+Olynyk line up that we started the season with as our starters.  That unit has a net rating of -.01 per possession.  Not great, but not bad either.   His next most used lineup seemingly just swaps in Zeller in place of Olynyk and *presto*, they have a net rating of +.15 per possession!   That's a huge, dramatic swing!

If Rondo is so bad, how can one unit post such great numbers?

Now, the simplistic conclusion from that is that swapping Feller for Olynyk resulted in the huge swing - but its not that simple. 

Looking further down the list, we see another configuration that seemingly does nothing more than swap Zeller and Olynyk (with the foursome of RR+AB+JG+Bass) that has the complete _opposite_ result.  In that case, it is the _Olynyk_ configuration which is awesome compared to the Zeller one!

The truth is that this is the result of our skewed schedule.  The Olynyk starters configuration was used mostly during our brutal run through the very top teams in the NBA in November.  Primarily against the starters on the top teams in the NBA.  The Zeller starters configuration has been mostly since then against MUCH easier competition.   Similarly, the two 'Bass" configurations also were used inversely as they represent the bench big substitution overlap.  In November, Bass+Zeller would be the two bench bigs overlapping with RR+AB+JG.  In December that has changed to Bass+Olynyk - against much easier competition.

Once you are aware of these things it becomes apparent that regardless of Olynyk or Zeller, that the Celtic starters basically played very close to even with the starters of the top teams in the NBA and have generally crushed the starters of the crappy teams of the NBA. 

So, the net point of all this is that the stats you have cited are really, truly heavily skewed due to small sample size and the front-loaded schedule.   They don't really inform you of what you seem to think they are informing you.  You have to look into them carefully and consider the contexts.

This understanding of what is going on with the schedule and the lineups and the impact they have on the various statistics is, again, a pretty straightforward analysis that I'm pretty sure Danny and Brad are aware of and take into account in their evaluations.

TP once again in 1 hr.

 
Put the spreadsheets away and step down from the ledge.  Rondo is not as good as Steph Curry.  You couldn't trade Rondo and 3 first round picks for Curry right now.  Literally.  GSW decline.

I bet you could for that price.  Although, Golden State could waffle because of their hot start and possible chemistry issues.
I think they say no, but that's probably where they start listening.  What does that tell you?

That just like a few users here, you're not a huge fan of Rondo.

3 first rounders especially if 2 are Nets are extremely valuable... Superstars in the past have been traded for less...
I love Rondo.  True Celtic.  However...

Curry is making a strong case for league MVP.  He's one step below Lebron and Anthony Davis in the "completely untouchable don't even bother picking up the phone" category.  The Warriors have 3 losses.  There is no way, no how they're letting Curry go.  You can make lottery picks for a decade and never end up with a Steph Curry caliber player.

Warriors also had the 4th easiest schedule along with the Raptors who everyone has dictated as a top 3 east team.

When you win a lot of games, you tend to have extrapolated stats. Lets wait till Curry actually faces tougher competition, plus Kerr has done a great job with them.
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It's based on your perspective, quite simply
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Son, I ain't better than you, I just think different

Re: Per Woj: Danny is active on the phones.....
« Reply #147 on: December 17, 2014, 11:55:05 AM »

Offline mmmmm

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Let's just shift the discussion away from advanced stats for a second - what do your eyes see? For me, Rondo's plus/minus is totally backed up by watching the time he is on the court. The pace of play slows down and for every nifty assist he picks up for somebody there are just as many or more halfcourt possessions where the offense goes nowhere. When the bench comes in, suddenly they make a run and the game is competitive again.

I don't believe in hyperbolic Rondo hatred but it's clear to me that the team is not playing better, or as well as it should be when he is on the court. I don't know if it's teammates deferring to him (which they shouldn't because Rondo has been extremely reluctant to shoot this year), or if it's just a case of Rondo playing against better starting lineups as opposed to backups. Something is clearly wrong here and if advanced stats are saying otherwise then those stats need to be questioned.

So what's the truth? If my eyes are deceiving me, please tell me why.

Also, I think a statistic based on a per 36 min. ranking is misleading because it's questionable whether Rondo is even capable of playing that many minutes a night without his play deteriorating. Stevens has stated he's keeping Rondo's minutes down to maximize his efficiency, which should be alarming considering he's not even playing that well. I've already brought up Rondo's horrible numbers on back-to-backs (though it's a small sample size so far). If Rondo is a top PG then shouldn't he be penalized, not rewarded for playing less mpg than other top PGs because those lost minutes are going to the backup who is supposed to be inferior?

Not what your eyes see.   My eyes are right.  Yours are wrong.

There, wasn't that a fun discussion?  ::)

Seriously - the rest of your comment is loaded with assertions unsupported by anything but confirmation bias.     And inaccuracies - Rondo has played between 31-37 minutes in the vast majority of games he has played this year.

Here is the possible difference between your eyes and mine:  I tend to question my eyes a lot.  So I go and double-check the recorded facts to make sure of what actually happened.

You may be more confident in your eyes than I am in mine.   But I am not any more confident in your eyes than mine.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Re: Per Woj: Danny is active on the phones.....
« Reply #148 on: December 17, 2014, 11:58:07 AM »

Offline Greenback

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My eyes reveal that Rondo should be starting in the D League.
Everyone wants truth on his side, not everyone wants to be on the side of truth.

Re: Per Woj: Danny is active on the phones.....
« Reply #149 on: December 17, 2014, 11:59:05 AM »

Offline Monkhouse

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Put the spreadsheets away and step down from the ledge.  Rondo is not as good as Steph Curry.  You couldn't trade Rondo and 3 first round picks for Curry right now.  Literally.  GSW decline.

I bet you could for that price.  Although, Golden State could waffle because of their hot start and possible chemistry issues.
I think they say no, but that's probably where they start listening.  What does that tell you?

That just like a few users here, you're not a huge fan of Rondo.

3 first rounders especially if 2 are Nets are extremely valuable... Superstars in the past have been traded for less...
I love Rondo.  True Celtic.  However...

Curry is making a strong case for league MVP.  He's one step below Lebron and Anthony Davis in the "completely untouchable don't even bother picking up the phone" category.  The Warriors have 3 losses.  There is no way, no how they're letting Curry go.  You can make lottery picks for a decade and never end up with a Steph Curry caliber player.

Just ask David Kahn.

Was just going to say that..

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/5-on-5-110914/nba-minnesota-timberwolves-david-kahn-best-moves

My eyes reveal that Rondo should be starting in the D League.

Wow. Ok.
"I bomb atomically, Socrates' philosophies and hypotheses
Can't define how I be dropping these mockeries."

Is the glass half-full or half-empty?
It's based on your perspective, quite simply
We're the same and we're not; know what I'm saying? Listen
Son, I ain't better than you, I just think different