Author Topic: NFL playoffs - Replay and OT controversy  (Read 12060 times)

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Re: NFL playoffs - Replay and OT controversy
« Reply #45 on: January 23, 2019, 04:05:38 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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I do find it funny that three of the six officials officiating that Rams/Saints game have strong ties from Los Angeles.
With the two closest refs, including the one 8 feet from the play, being 2 of the 3 LA based refs.

Eh, I chalk it up more to incompetence and it being a "bang bang" play in real time, which clearly it wasn't when shown in slow-mo.

That being the case, it still shouldn't have been missed.  It was egregious.


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Re: NFL playoffs - Replay and OT controversy
« Reply #46 on: January 23, 2019, 04:10:31 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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I do find it funny that three of the six officials officiating that Rams/Saints game have strong ties from Los Angeles.
With the two closest refs, including the one 8 feet from the play, being 2 of the 3 LA based refs.

Eh, I chalk it up more to incompetence and it being a "bang bang" play in real time, which clearly it wasn't when shown in slow-mo.

That being the case, it still shouldn't have been missed.  It was egregious.
Oh, I don't think the refs are dirty for their hometown team, but the ref grouping was a random grouping and not a regular NFL crew. So the NFL probably could have done better in even giving the perception complete fairness by making all the refs from hometowns not affiliated with the game. That an official from LA was 8 feet from a no call that would have cost an LA team the game is just not a good look. NFL could have done better.

Re: NFL playoffs - Replay and OT controversy
« Reply #47 on: January 23, 2019, 04:10:42 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Lol I feel like the OT controversy only stirs up when the Patriots benefit from it.

Otherwise, not a peep or sound be made. Nobody's applying that to the Saints/Rams game. They're too busy shadowing that non-call DPI which should have been called. Though there's nothing we can do about that matter other than complain to the league but they won't listen to a peep and move on. I do find it funny that three of the six officials officiating that Rams/Saints game have strong ties from Los Angeles.
No one is saying anything about the Saints/Rams game regarding OT because of the play at the end of regulation and the fact that both offenses actually got on the field in the OT.  If one of the offenses didn't get on the field, the exact same discussion would be had.
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Re: NFL playoffs - Replay and OT controversy
« Reply #48 on: January 23, 2019, 04:13:37 PM »

Offline Moranis

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The Pats havent loss 3 coin flips in a row now

If Pats lost on Sunday without Brady getting a chance in OT

I bet many would change their stance (leave it the way it is)
Not even a little bit. A coin flip is as fair as it gets. It's 50/50 whether you get the decision on what to do with the ball.

Defense is part of the game too and if you lose the coin flip, the defense needs to do its job, the same way the offense has to do its job and score if the team won the coin toss. Or the same way the offense has to do their job if the defense holds off the competition. The same way the special teams have to do their job and get off a good kick if the offense doesn't score.

Where does fairness end.

"Oh, we lost the coin toss.That's not fair "
"Oh, we couldn't stop their offense from scoring a TD. We should have a chance to try to score too. That's not fair."
"Oh, we couldn't score, their defense is too good. That's not fair."

It's about doing your job. Do your job and you win, regardless of a coin flip.

So offense you think doesn't have an advantage? Seriously? If they do their job as you state it they win the game, if the defense does its job they stay alive. Of course it is not fair especially when it is decided by the coin toss.

This has nothing to do with the Patriots or any other team. That s the rule so nobody can complain

But the rule should change.

Given that outcomes have proven to be pretty even for this -- i.e., the coin-toss winner hasn't really won these at a rate much above .500, I'm not sure the offense really has the great advantage you are imagining.
TD's are scored on something 20% of all drives.  So it isn't a guaranteed victory, but 1 in 5 times one team isn't even given a chance, which just seems inherently wrong.  That also isn't how football works.  Why don't we just end the game if the team takes the opening kick off and scores a TD?  I mean why give the other team the ball in that situation.  I know that is a bit exaggerated since they've already been on the field for 60 minutes when OT rolls around, but the basic premise holds.   


Here are the drivestats for the year, which are interesting. 

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/drivestats

The Chiefs had the best offense, but also the worst defense.  They lost a playoff game because they lost a coin flip. 
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Re: NFL playoffs - Replay and OT controversy
« Reply #49 on: January 23, 2019, 04:17:53 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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The Chiefs had the best offense, but also the worst defense.  They lost a playoff game because they lost a coin flip.

And because they had a crappy defense that let them down at the most inopportune time.


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Re: NFL playoffs - Replay and OT controversy
« Reply #50 on: January 23, 2019, 04:26:03 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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The Chiefs had the best offense, but also the worst defense.  They lost a playoff game because they lost a coin flip.

You aren't really making a strong case here for 'unfairness'.

We can easily just say: They lost a playoff game because they have the worst defense.

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Re: NFL playoffs - Replay and OT controversy
« Reply #51 on: January 23, 2019, 04:28:54 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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The Chiefs had the best offense, but also the worst defense.  They lost a playoff game because they lost a coin flip.

You aren't really making a strong case here for 'unfairness'.

We can easily just say: They lost a playoff game because they have the worst defense.



The point does still remain, though, had the Chiefs won the coin toss it is exceedingly likely they'd be in the SB.

The NFL has set up the rules to heavily favor offenses over defenses, so it's kind of just common sense both offenses should get an equal chance.

Re: NFL playoffs - Replay and OT controversy
« Reply #52 on: January 23, 2019, 04:36:10 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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The Pats havent loss 3 coin flips in a row now

If Pats lost on Sunday without Brady getting a chance in OT

I bet many would change their stance (leave it the way it is)
Not even a little bit. A coin flip is as fair as it gets. It's 50/50 whether you get the decision on what to do with the ball.

Defense is part of the game too and if you lose the coin flip, the defense needs to do its job, the same way the offense has to do its job and score if the team won the coin toss. Or the same way the offense has to do their job if the defense holds off the competition. The same way the special teams have to do their job and get off a good kick if the offense doesn't score.

Where does fairness end.

"Oh, we lost the coin toss.That's not fair "
"Oh, we couldn't stop their offense from scoring a TD. We should have a chance to try to score too. That's not fair."
"Oh, we couldn't score, their defense is too good. That's not fair."

It's about doing your job. Do your job and you win, regardless of a coin flip.

So offense you think doesn't have an advantage? Seriously? If they do their job as you state it they win the game, if the defense does its job they stay alive. Of course it is not fair especially when it is decided by the coin toss.

This has nothing to do with the Patriots or any other team. That s the rule so nobody can complain

But the rule should change.

Given that outcomes have proven to be pretty even for this -- i.e., the coin-toss winner hasn't really won these at a rate much above .500, I'm not sure the offense really has the great advantage you are imagining.
TD's are scored on something 20% of all drives.  So it isn't a guaranteed victory, but 1 in 5 times one team isn't even given a chance, which just seems inherently wrong.  That also isn't how football works.  Why don't we just end the game if the team takes the opening kick off and scores a TD?  I mean why give the other team the ball in that situation.  I know that is a bit exaggerated since they've already been on the field for 60 minutes when OT rolls around, but the basic premise holds.   


Here are the drivestats for the year, which are interesting. 

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/drivestats

The Chiefs had the best offense, but also the worst defense.  They lost a playoff game because they lost a coin flip.

I got to agree with Moranis here. With the way the game has evolved the coin toss rule has become the most unfair it has ever been. We would all be really upset and calling it unfair as pats fans if brady never saw the field in OT.

Re: NFL playoffs - Replay and OT controversy
« Reply #53 on: January 23, 2019, 04:38:29 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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The Pats havent loss 3 coin flips in a row now

If Pats lost on Sunday without Brady getting a chance in OT

I bet many would change their stance (leave it the way it is)
Not even a little bit. A coin flip is as fair as it gets. It's 50/50 whether you get the decision on what to do with the ball.

Defense is part of the game too and if you lose the coin flip, the defense needs to do its job, the same way the offense has to do its job and score if the team won the coin toss. Or the same way the offense has to do their job if the defense holds off the competition. The same way the special teams have to do their job and get off a good kick if the offense doesn't score.

Where does fairness end.

"Oh, we lost the coin toss.That's not fair "
"Oh, we couldn't stop their offense from scoring a TD. We should have a chance to try to score too. That's not fair."
"Oh, we couldn't score, their defense is too good. That's not fair."

It's about doing your job. Do your job and you win, regardless of a coin flip.

So offense you think doesn't have an advantage? Seriously? If they do their job as you state it they win the game, if the defense does its job they stay alive. Of course it is not fair especially when it is decided by the coin toss.

This has nothing to do with the Patriots or any other team. That s the rule so nobody can complain

But the rule should change.

Given that outcomes have proven to be pretty even for this -- i.e., the coin-toss winner hasn't really won these at a rate much above .500, I'm not sure the offense really has the great advantage you are imagining.
TD's are scored on something 20% of all drives.  So it isn't a guaranteed victory, but 1 in 5 times one team isn't even given a chance, which just seems inherently wrong.  That also isn't how football works.  Why don't we just end the game if the team takes the opening kick off and scores a TD?  I mean why give the other team the ball in that situation.  I know that is a bit exaggerated since they've already been on the field for 60 minutes when OT rolls around, but the basic premise holds.   


Here are the drivestats for the year, which are interesting. 

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/drivestats

The Chiefs had the best offense, but also the worst defense.  They lost a playoff game because they lost a coin flip.

I got to agree with Moranis here. With the way the game has evolved the coin toss rule has become the most unfair it has ever been. We would all be really upset and calling it unfair as pats fans if brady never saw the field in OT.

Most Pats fans probably would but I can guarantee this national "outrage" now to change the OT rules wouldn't be there.


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Re: NFL playoffs - Replay and OT controversy
« Reply #54 on: January 23, 2019, 04:39:47 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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The Chiefs had the best offense, but also the worst defense.  They lost a playoff game because they lost a coin flip.

You aren't really making a strong case here for 'unfairness'.

We can easily just say: They lost a playoff game because they have the worst defense.



The point does still remain, though, had the Chiefs won the coin toss it is exceedingly likely they'd be in the SB.

The NFL has set up the rules to heavily favor offenses over defenses, so it's kind of just common sense both offenses should get an equal chance.

Certainly agree with this.  I mentioned it back earlier in the fall that today's NFL was turning into a variation of Arena Football.


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Re: NFL playoffs - Replay and OT controversy
« Reply #55 on: January 23, 2019, 04:48:40 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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The Chiefs had the best offense, but also the worst defense.  They lost a playoff game because they lost a coin flip.

You aren't really making a strong case here for 'unfairness'.

We can easily just say: They lost a playoff game because they have the worst defense.



The point does still remain, though, had the Chiefs won the coin toss it is exceedingly likely they'd be in the SB.

The NFL has set up the rules to heavily favor offenses over defenses, so it's kind of just common sense both offenses should get an equal chance.
No it really isn't likely they would have scored a TD and won.

The Rams and Saints both have amazing offenses, the 2nd best and 8th best in the league. But the Rams, the 19th best defense in the league, were able to stop Brees and the vaunted Saints offense.

There is nothing unfair to an entire team in a coin flip. Both teams have a 50% chance to get their offense on the field and score a TD. If you lose the coin flip, go out and play defense, like what happened in the NFC Championship game.

Re: NFL playoffs - Replay and OT controversy
« Reply #56 on: January 23, 2019, 04:55:13 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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The Chiefs had the best offense, but also the worst defense.  They lost a playoff game because they lost a coin flip.

You aren't really making a strong case here for 'unfairness'.

We can easily just say: They lost a playoff game because they have the worst defense.



The point does still remain, though, had the Chiefs won the coin toss it is exceedingly likely they'd be in the SB.

The NFL has set up the rules to heavily favor offenses over defenses, so it's kind of just common sense both offenses should get an equal chance.
No it really isn't likely they would have scored a TD and won.

The Rams and Saints both have amazing offenses, the 2nd best and 8th best in the league. But the Rams, the 19th best defense in the league, were able to stop Brees and the vaunted Saints offense.

There is nothing unfair to an entire team in a coin flip. Both teams have a 50% chance to get their offense on the field and score a TD. If you lose the coin flip, go out and play defense, like what happened in the NFC Championship game.

I think there would've been a decent chance that they would've, though. 

KC's last three possessions of regulation were TD, TD, FG.  And the only reason they probably settle for a FG there was because of time constraints.    You could certainly argue KC had the Pats defense on the ropes there.   They sorta figured it out in that 2nd half.   Points on 5 of 7 possessions.


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Re: NFL playoffs - Replay and OT controversy
« Reply #57 on: January 23, 2019, 05:06:09 PM »

Offline SparzWizard

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The Chiefs had the best offense, but also the worst defense.  They lost a playoff game because they lost a coin flip.

And because they had a crappy defense that let them down at the most inopportune time.

Well they did pick Brady a couple of times, and put him at 3rd and long situations a few times, too.


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Re: NFL playoffs - Replay and OT controversy
« Reply #58 on: January 23, 2019, 05:11:05 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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The Chiefs had the best offense, but also the worst defense.  They lost a playoff game because they lost a coin flip.

You aren't really making a strong case here for 'unfairness'.

We can easily just say: They lost a playoff game because they have the worst defense.



The point does still remain, though, had the Chiefs won the coin toss it is exceedingly likely they'd be in the SB.

The NFL has set up the rules to heavily favor offenses over defenses, so it's kind of just common sense both offenses should get an equal chance.
No it really isn't likely they would have scored a TD and won.

The Rams and Saints both have amazing offenses, the 2nd best and 8th best in the league. But the Rams, the 19th best defense in the league, were able to stop Brees and the vaunted Saints offense.

There is nothing unfair to an entire team in a coin flip. Both teams have a 50% chance to get their offense on the field and score a TD. If you lose the coin flip, go out and play defense, like what happened in the NFC Championship game.

I think there would've been a decent chance that they would've, though. 

KC's last three possessions of regulation were TD, TD, FG.  And the only reason they probably settle for a FG there was because of time constraints.    You could certainly argue KC had the Pats defense on the ropes there.   They sorta figured it out in that 2nd half.   Points on 5 of 7 possessions.
But not likely. Any team has a decent chance of scoring a TD to start OT. Every team has a decent chance to stop teams from scoring a TD as well. Proof, the Rams earlier that day.

Re: NFL playoffs - Replay and OT controversy
« Reply #59 on: January 23, 2019, 05:12:47 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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The Chiefs had the best offense, but also the worst defense.  They lost a playoff game because they lost a coin flip.

And because they had a crappy defense that let them down at the most inopportune time.

Well they did pick Brady a couple of times, and put him at 3rd and long situations a few times, too.

While true, the Chiefs gave up over 500 yards of total offense and sacked Brady zero times.

I don't think anyone walked away from that game thinking the Patriots beat a great, or even decent, defense.


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