Author Topic: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer  (Read 83616 times)

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Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #135 on: May 04, 2012, 01:24:05 PM »

Offline Moranis

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The tone of this whole thread is that Rondo "needs" to be traded because he got ejected from Game 1.
You have misread the tone of this thread, that isn't it at all.  The ejection from game 1 is just the continuation of a long line of problems resulting from Rondo's attitude.  His attitude is why he needs to go.  It is what keeps him from reaching his full potential and the next level (he shows flashes of what he could be, but lets his emotion and attitude affect his consistency to a level I can't recall in any one else).  The ejection was caused by his underlying attitude problem and that isn't going to go away because I don't believe it is a maturity issue.  I think it is just the way Rondo is and I don't see that improving, which means he will never be the player he could become.

Let's not forget what Pierce did earlier in his career.  He received the lion's share of the blame for the collapse of Team USA in 2002.  He got kicked out of a playoff game after an extreme over-reaction to an intentional foul. He was easily baited into bad shots by trash talk from opponents and once spit at the Cavs bench after a fierce round with young LeBron.   He had a pair of disappointing years in terms of shot selection and defensive intensity and took a full year to get with Doc's share the ball program.  Heck, it wasn't so long ago that he lost his cool and threw a gang sign at Al Horford after getting taunted on a missed shot late in a game.

We stuck with Pierce and it paid off.  I expect we'll do the same with Rondo (unless someone comes offering D-Will or CP3 for him).
I always just saw Pierce as immature, and I don't see immaturity with Rondo.  I certainly could be wrong, but that is just the way I see it.
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Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #136 on: May 04, 2012, 01:24:41 PM »

Offline pearljammer10

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I still just dont understand how anyone can justify trading a top 3 point guard in the league who averages over 11 assists per game! Like...What do you expect to get in return that values that? absurd.

Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #137 on: May 04, 2012, 01:40:10 PM »

Offline KY Celts fan

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Moving Rondo for pennies on the dollar is just not a smart move.
Pennies on the Dollar?  Where did you get this idea?  No one is suggesting and certainly we can trust that DA wouldn't trade him just to dump him.  Trades will be explored though.

We are now 7-4 in games without him this year.  Think the Clipps would be 7-4 without CP or the Nets without Williams?  Rondo is not indispensable.  I think we could get good value back for him and trades should be explored.

Our record without Rondo doesn't really matter. The Bulls record without Derrick Rose was great this year. Does that mean Rose is expendable for the right price? Of course not!

Our record without KG in 2009 was good as well. Should we have though about getting rid of him? No, that's foolish.

Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #138 on: May 04, 2012, 01:51:19 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I still just dont understand how anyone can justify trading a top 3 point guard in the league who averages over 11 assists per game! Like...What do you expect to get in return that values that? absurd.
These seem like fairly realistic trades, would you make any of them?

Rondo, 22 for Matthews, Smith, 11

Rondo for Conley, Cunningham, 25

Rondo, 22 for Jack, Aminu, 10

Rondo for Harris, Hayward

Rondo, 22 for Calderon, 8
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Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #139 on: May 04, 2012, 01:55:15 PM »

Offline Tai

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I still just dont understand how anyone can justify trading a top 3 point guard in the league who averages over 11 assists per game! Like...What do you expect to get in return that values that? absurd.
These seem like fairly realistic trades, would you make any of them?

Rondo, 22 for Calderon, 8




I'm done with this topic before I say something stupid.

Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #140 on: May 04, 2012, 01:55:43 PM »

Offline j804

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Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #141 on: May 04, 2012, 02:08:50 PM »

Offline alajet

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These seem like fairly realistic trades, would you make any of them?

Rondo, 22 for Matthews, Smith, 11

Rondo for Conley, Cunningham, 25

Rondo, 22 for Jack, Aminu, 10

Rondo for Harris, Hayward

Rondo, 22 for Calderon, 8

Fairly good. I like Conley as a pass-first PG. He also has a good feel to get some steals, can knock down 3s and showed in college alongside Oden that he is old school.
Hayward is someone really talented, as well. A very versatile player who can do almost anything.
Not advocating any trades at this point, but these sounded debatable.


Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #142 on: May 04, 2012, 02:10:36 PM »

Offline snively

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I still just dont understand how anyone can justify trading a top 3 point guard in the league who averages over 11 assists per game! Like...What do you expect to get in return that values that? absurd.
These seem like fairly realistic trades, would you make any of them?

Rondo, 22 for Matthews, Smith, 11

Rondo for Conley, Cunningham, 25

Rondo, 22 for Jack, Aminu, 10

Rondo for Harris, Hayward

Rondo, 22 for Calderon, 8

Would you?  Which of those offers constitutes fair value for an all-star at the beginning of his prime?
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Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #143 on: May 04, 2012, 02:21:07 PM »

Offline thestackshow

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I still just dont understand how anyone can justify trading a top 3 point guard in the league who averages over 11 assists per game! Like...What do you expect to get in return that values that? absurd.
These seem like fairly realistic trades, would you make any of them?

Rondo, 22 for Matthews, Smith, 11

Rondo for Conley, Cunningham, 25

Rondo, 22 for Jack, Aminu, 10

Rondo for Harris, Hayward

Rondo, 22 for Calderon, 8



You trolling?
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Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #144 on: May 04, 2012, 02:21:43 PM »

Offline snively

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The tone of this whole thread is that Rondo "needs" to be traded because he got ejected from Game 1.
You have misread the tone of this thread, that isn't it at all.  The ejection from game 1 is just the continuation of a long line of problems resulting from Rondo's attitude.  His attitude is why he needs to go.  It is what keeps him from reaching his full potential and the next level (he shows flashes of what he could be, but lets his emotion and attitude affect his consistency to a level I can't recall in any one else).  The ejection was caused by his underlying attitude problem and that isn't going to go away because I don't believe it is a maturity issue.  I think it is just the way Rondo is and I don't see that improving, which means he will never be the player he could become.

Let's not forget what Pierce did earlier in his career.  He received the lion's share of the blame for the collapse of Team USA in 2002.  He got kicked out of a playoff game after an extreme over-reaction to an intentional foul. He was easily baited into bad shots by trash talk from opponents and once spit at the Cavs bench after a fierce round with young LeBron.   He had a pair of disappointing years in terms of shot selection and defensive intensity and took a full year to get with Doc's share the ball program.  Heck, it wasn't so long ago that he lost his cool and threw a gang sign at Al Horford after getting taunted on a missed shot late in a game.

We stuck with Pierce and it paid off.  I expect we'll do the same with Rondo (unless someone comes offering D-Will or CP3 for him).
I always just saw Pierce as immature, and I don't see immaturity with Rondo.  I certainly could be wrong, but that is just the way I see it.

What is it if not maturity?  Do you think he's unstable mentally?

I think Rondo's problems smack of immaturity: has a hard time taking criticism (fights with Doc, bottle at the screen incident) and struggles to keep his emotions in check (ref bump, ball throwing).  What evidence is there that is some deeper, darker problem?

His problems with consistency on the court are very much skill and role-based, not personality: his scoring is so unorthodox without accurate shooting (and his scoring role so fluid on this team) that's it's bound to be inconsistent.  He's been very consistent as a playmaker with back-to-back seasons of elite production in that category. 
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Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #145 on: May 04, 2012, 02:47:04 PM »

Offline colincb

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I still just dont understand how anyone can justify trading a top 3 point guard in the league who averages over 11 assists per game! Like...What do you expect to get in return that values that? absurd.
These seem like fairly realistic trades, would you make any of them?

Rondo, 22 for Matthews, Smith, 11

Rondo for Conley, Cunningham, 25

Rondo, 22 for Jack, Aminu, 10

Rondo for Harris, Hayward

Rondo, 22 for Calderon, 8

None and it's not close. Even adding a couple of firsts can't help these enough.

Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #146 on: May 04, 2012, 02:57:31 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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Moving Rondo for pennies on the dollar is just not a smart move.
Pennies on the Dollar?  Where did you get this idea?  No one is suggesting and certainly we can trust that DA wouldn't trade him just to dump him.  Trades will be explored though.

We are now 7-4 in games without him this year.  Think the Clipps would be 7-4 without CP or the Nets without Williams?  Rondo is not indispensable.  I think we could get good value back for him and trades should be explored.

The Nets can't go 7 and 4 with Deron Williams, never mind without him.
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Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #147 on: May 04, 2012, 02:58:50 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I still just dont understand how anyone can justify trading a top 3 point guard in the league who averages over 11 assists per game! Like...What do you expect to get in return that values that? absurd.
These seem like fairly realistic trades, would you make any of them?

Rondo, 22 for Matthews, Smith, 11

Rondo for Conley, Cunningham, 25

Rondo, 22 for Jack, Aminu, 10

Rondo for Harris, Hayward

Rondo, 22 for Calderon, 8

Would you?  Which of those offers constitutes fair value for an all-star at the beginning of his prime?
I'd certainly do the Memphis and Utah trades.  Depending on what I thought would be on the board at 8, 10, and 11, I might do those trades as well.  
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Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #148 on: May 04, 2012, 03:04:28 PM »

Offline Senninsage

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To be honest, Rondo's upside is much too high. You don't trade him. Not anymore. It's something I entertained early in the season, but not now.

Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #149 on: May 04, 2012, 03:35:20 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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I still just dont understand how anyone can justify trading a top 3 point guard in the league who averages over 11 assists per game! Like...What do you expect to get in return that values that? absurd.
These seem like fairly realistic trades, would you make any of them?

Rondo, 22 for Matthews, Smith, 11

Rondo for Conley, Cunningham, 25

Rondo, 22 for Jack, Aminu, 10

Rondo for Harris, Hayward

Rondo, 22 for Calderon, 8
they are realistic.  I've brought up the Calderon concept before.  The idea is that although Rondo is a fantastic distributor and 'setup guy', he's actually a fairly limited offensive player.  When you have a star like Paul Pierce playing at a star level, you actually don't necessarily NEED Rondo.  Pierce is comfortable having the ball flow through him... and he has a tendency to step his game up with Rondo out... which is why we won game 2 and why we had a winning record when Rondo sat this year.   So I actually questioned whether or offense would be "better" if you replaced ROndo with a phenomenal shooter like Jose Calderon.  He's a career 48% shooter (38% from three and 88% from the line) ... Basically you replace a guy who can't shoot for his life (Rondo) with one of the best shooters in the league.  I imagine that would open things up for the rest of the starters... and I think a case could be made that it would actually IMPROVE our offense (for what it's worth, Calderon averages about 9 assists with garbage teammates).   Still, this is all contingent on Paul Pierce being here and capable of playing like a star... and I don't think Pierce has too many years left. 

I worry about how Rondo will perform when the guys he distributes the ball to (Ray, KG, and Pierce) retire.  What happens when he no longer has 3 hall-of-famers surrounding him... what happens when the Celtics ask him to be a primary scorer and the guy can't shoot... what happens when teams start doubling him like they do Rose, Chris Paul and Deron Williams?   Rondo is fantastic in his role right now, because he has elite scorers around him... but what happens when the elite scorers disappear?  Positive outlook:  He ends up a poor man's Jason Kidd and a few fringe stars can turn us into a mediocre little playoff team (like when the Nets lucked into the finals back-to-back years when the Leastern Conference was a joke).  Negative outlook:  His assists drop when his shot attempts rise, his limited offensive ability becomes and issue, the team starts losing and Rondo (who appears to be a very temperamental stubborn guy) starts sulking.  As we saw when Boston traded Perk and Rondo went comatose for a few months... a "sulking" Rondo isn't anywhere near as good as a "happy Rondo".

So although these trades kinda stink, I DO understand why Ainge has been exploring moving him and I DO understand why Ainge will continue to explore moving him.  I personally prefer a pipe-dream scenario where we sign Deron Williams in free agency (he's better than Rondo, not limited offensively, has shown success as a leader and his team's best player, has all the same distribution and setup abilities, he's available this summer... and we have the cap space to sign him) and then trade Rondo to the highest bidder (preferably a big man... a Josh Smith or Al Jefferson or something).   Offer Rondo and both 1sts for Dwight Howard if Dwight demands a trade.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2012, 03:40:55 PM by LarBrd33 »