SI on Celtics, Ainge, Stevens. "Celtics aim to develop talent, not tank for more

[Eric M VAN]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nba/news/20130930/boston-celtics-danny-ainge-brad-stevens/?sct=nba_t1t_a1#all

WALTHAM, Mass. -- For six years the question was whether the Celtics would win the championship. Now Danny Ainge finds himself overseeing a far less promising environment. All of the big names who played for or coached the championship team of 2007-08 are now in Los Angeles or Miami or Brooklyn or (in the case of Rajon Rondo) on indefinite leave. Instead of trying to win, should they now be trying to lose?
"As I walk around town, more than anything else there are those that say, 'Hey, don't win too many games,"' said Ainge, the Celtics' president of basketball operations. "There are so many fans that want us to play for the draft."
Ainge's measured response is that they should be more careful what they wish for.


Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nba/news/20130930/boston-celtics-danny-ainge-brad-stevens/#ixzz2gTtkZPo2

[Gainesville Celtic]

thanks for the link... good article.

but  .... this caught my eye:

All of the Celtics' old, experienced hope had been traded away as they opened training camp Monday with the unlikely -- but not impossible, according to Ainge -- goal of reaching the playoffs. The mood was nothing like years past. One longtime Boston journalist said it was the first time in 36 years he was covering a Celtics team that didn't include a future Hall-of-Famer. The uniforms were familiar, but many of the faces and names were not.

Who is this journalist and who on this list (from 96-97... 16 years ago) does he/she consider a future Hall-of-Famer?

Alton Lister
Antoine Walker
Brett Szabo
Dana Barros
David Wesley
Dee Brown
Dino Radja
Eric Williams
Frank Brickowski
Greg Minor
Marty Conlon
Michael Hawkins
Nate Driggers
Pervis Ellison
Rick Fox
Stacey King
Steve Hamer
Todd Day


 

[Eric M VAN]

thanks for the link... good article.

but  .... this caught my eye:

All of the Celtics' old, experienced hope had been traded away as they opened training camp Monday with the unlikely -- but not impossible, according to Ainge -- goal of reaching the playoffs. The mood was nothing like years past. One longtime Boston journalist said it was the first time in 36 years he was covering a Celtics team that didn't include a future Hall-of-Famer. The uniforms were familiar, but many of the faces and names were not.

Who is this journalist and who on this list (from 96-97... 16 years ago) does he/she consider a future Hall-of-Famer?

Alton Lister
Antoine Walker
Brett Szabo
Dana Barros
David Wesley
Dee Brown
Dino Radja
Eric Williams
Frank Brickowski
Greg Minor
Marty Conlon
Michael Hawkins
Nate Driggers
Pervis Ellison
Rick Fox
Stacey King
Steve Hamer
Todd Day


 

He didn't say WHAT hall of fame. Maybe Arby's or The roller Skating hall of fame? (hey, there actually is one!)

I saw that comment and just passed it off because I thought it was a little sketchy. Dunno

[fairweatherfan]

thanks for the link... good article.

but  .... this caught my eye:

All of the Celtics' old, experienced hope had been traded away as they opened training camp Monday with the unlikely -- but not impossible, according to Ainge -- goal of reaching the playoffs. The mood was nothing like years past. One longtime Boston journalist said it was the first time in 36 years he was covering a Celtics team that didn't include a future Hall-of-Famer. The uniforms were familiar, but many of the faces and names were not.

Who is this journalist and who on this list (from 96-97... 16 years ago) does he/she consider a future Hall-of-Famer?

Alton Lister
Antoine Walker
Brett Szabo
Dana Barros
David Wesley
Dee Brown
Dino Radja
Eric Williams
Frank Brickowski
Greg Minor
Marty Conlon
Michael Hawkins
Nate Driggers
Pervis Ellison
Rick Fox
Stacey King
Steve Hamer
Todd Day


 

Good point, and also Rondo has a pretty good chance to make the HOF someday.

[CelticG1]

thanks for the link... good article.

but  .... this caught my eye:

All of the Celtics' old, experienced hope had been traded away as they opened training camp Monday with the unlikely -- but not impossible, according to Ainge -- goal of reaching the playoffs. The mood was nothing like years past. One longtime Boston journalist said it was the first time in 36 years he was covering a Celtics team that didn't include a future Hall-of-Famer. The uniforms were familiar, but many of the faces and names were not.

Who is this journalist and who on this list (from 96-97... 16 years ago) does he/she consider a future Hall-of-Famer?

Alton Lister
Antoine Walker
Brett Szabo
Dana Barros
David Wesley
Dee Brown
Dino Radja
Eric Williams
Frank Brickowski
Greg Minor
Marty Conlon
Michael Hawkins
Nate Driggers
Pervis Ellison
Rick Fox
Stacey King
Steve Hamer
Todd Day


 

If that's the only year than could just be an oversight. Parrish must have left just before that.

Still in Pierces earlier years you didnt know he was a hall of famer. Rondo could be a future HOF or mayne even someone else.

[Gainesville Celtic]

thanks for the link... good article.

but  .... this caught my eye:

All of the Celtics' old, experienced hope had been traded away as they opened training camp Monday with the unlikely -- but not impossible, according to Ainge -- goal of reaching the playoffs. The mood was nothing like years past. One longtime Boston journalist said it was the first time in 36 years he was covering a Celtics team that didn't include a future Hall-of-Famer. The uniforms were familiar, but many of the faces and names were not.

Who is this journalist and who on this list (from 96-97... 16 years ago) does he/she consider a future Hall-of-Famer?

Alton Lister
Antoine Walker
Brett Szabo
Dana Barros
David Wesley
Dee Brown
Dino Radja
Eric Williams
Frank Brickowski
Greg Minor
Marty Conlon
Michael Hawkins
Nate Driggers
Pervis Ellison
Rick Fox
Stacey King
Steve Hamer
Todd Day


 

If that's the only year than could just be an oversight. Parrish must have left just before that.

Close... but there were at least 2 and arguably 3 years** where there weren't any HOFers... AND when things were un-arguably MUCH darker than they are now, which seemed to be the point of that comment.


(** depending on how you feel about Chauncey Billups and the HOF; I hope to GOD the writer didn't mean Rick "Success is a Choice" Pitino as the HOF'er that season)

------------

77/78 to 92/93 had some combo of Cowens, Havlicek, Bird, Parrish, McHale, DJ, Walton, Fred Roberts.

93/94 was Parrish's last season (Bird & Mchale were gone)

94/95 was Dominique Wilkins' one-and-only season in green.

but 95/96 and the aforementioned 96/97 saw these hall-of-famers suit up in green:

1995-96 Alton Lister Charles Claxton Dana Barros David Wesley Dee Brown Dino Radja Doug Smith Eric Montross Eric Williams Greg Minor Junior Burrough Larry Sykes Pervis Ellison Rick Fox Sherman Douglas Thomas Hamilton Todd Day Todd Mundt

1996-97 Alton Lister Antoine Walker Brett Szabo Dana Barros David Wesley Dee Brown Dino Radja Eric Williams Frank Brickowski Greg Minor Marty Conlon Michael Hawkins Nate Driggers Pervis Ellison Rick Fox Stacey King Steve Hamer Todd Day

97/98 was Chauncey Billups' rookie season (who I think has a decent chance of making the HOF as a Finals MVP, 5 time all star and leader of the Pistons c. 2002-07).

98/99 to 06/07: Paul Pierce and Dwayne Schintzius

07/08 to present: Pierce, KG, Allen, Sheed, Shaq. Is Doc a HOF coach?

Still in Pierces earlier years you didnt know he was a hall of famer. Rondo could be a future HOF or mayne even someone else.

great point -- further underlying the bluster of whoever this was.

[gpap]

Are there really people that go up to Ainge and plead with him for the Celtics not to win too many games so they can get a high draft pick???

Please tell me that was a figure of speech.

Anyway, back to the article, I don't really think Ainge is saying anything groundbreaking.

If anything, he's playing both sides. He's not confessing that the team will be awful but he also says something along the lines of "we are not built to win 65 games" and "our unlikely but not impossible goal is to make the playoffs."

Obviously this team isn't going to win 65 games. Anybody can see that. But he also doesn't exactly go out of his way to say that this team is going to surprise a lot of people and be competitive.

He does say "I could see our team playing better than what some people think," but that's not saying much.

You could interpret that as "people think we are only going to win 20 games, but I could see us winning 21 instead."

The impression I get is that in so many words he's saying "we are not going to be bad, but we are not going to be good either."

I think that one sentence probably sums up the whole article (lol)

[Jeff]

like it or not, Rick P. is a Hall of Famer in the Basketball Hall of Fame (note: not just the NBA)

[nickagneta]

I think it strange that in an article where Ainge claims that he does not see a franchise changing player coming out in this year's draft when people on this blog have been salivating over high school kids and calling them the next Lebron, Durant, Rose or Carmelo, the major topic in the discussion is whether a reporter who has followed the team a long time exaggerated a bit about seeing a future HOFer on the roster every year he has followed the team.

Danny Ainge doesn't see Wiggins or Randle or Parker or Smart as being franchise changing players. Never mind Jabbar or Duncan, he doesn't even see a Durant.

That is the big news in this article. That and the fact that it appears he would rather go the route he took in 2007 to get franchise guys(by trading for them) than drafting potential one and possibly never seeing that materialize or watch it materialize and then see the player leave. His talk about the perceived value of his players around the league was very telling, IMHO.

[PhoSita]

like it or not, Rick P. is a Hall of Famer in the Basketball Hall of Fame (note: not just the NBA)

good point

[gpap]

I think it strange that in an article where Ainge claims that he does not see a franchise changing player coming out in this year's draft when people on this blog have been salivating over high school kids and calling them the next Lebron, Durant, Rose or Carmelo, the major topic in the discussion is whether a reporter who has followed the team a long time exaggerated a bit about seeing a future HOFer on the roster every year he has followed the team.

Danny Ainge doesn't see Wiggins or Randle or Parker or Smart as being franchise changing players. Never mind Jabbar or Duncan, he doesn't even see a Durant.

That is the big news in this article. That and the fact that it appears he would rather go the route he took in 2007 to get franchise guys(by trading for them) than drafting potential one and possibly never seeing that materialize or watch it materialize and then see the player leave. His talk about the perceived value of his players around the league was very telling, IMHO.

Good point. Totally missed that! OF COURSE, the caveat there is Danny could very well be eyeing a certain player in the top 10 next year, but doesn't want to reveal that.

In other words, I don't think you'll ever hear him say "man, I REALLY want that Julius Randle kid next summer! He can ball!(lol)"

But having said that, good observation. Sometimes I wonder if even Danny doesn't know what kind of team he has this year.

[PhoSita]

I think it strange that in an article where Ainge claims that he does not see a franchise changing player coming out in this year's draft when people on this blog have been salivating over high school kids and calling them the next Lebron, Durant, Rose or Carmelo, the major topic in the discussion is whether a reporter who has followed the team a long time exaggerated a bit about seeing a future HOFer on the roster every year he has followed the team.

Danny Ainge doesn't see Wiggins or Randle or Parker or Smart as being franchise changing players. Never mind Jabbar or Duncan, he doesn't even see a Durant.

That is the big news in this article. That and the fact that it appears he would rather go the route he took in 2007 to get franchise guys(by trading for them) than drafting potential one and possibly never seeing that materialize or watch it materialize and then see the player leave. His talk about the perceived value of his players around the league was very telling, IMHO.

What it tells me is that we can expect Ainge to make multiple moves with the young talent he acquires in the draft before settling on a competitive core that he likes.  It doesn't sound like he thinks the franchise player is going to come through the draft, as you say -- at least not this season.  I wonder how much of that is gamesmanship, though.  If not this draft, then when?  This draft is supposedly as loaded as any draft ever is.

Ainge notably doesn't say that he thinks the players we have now are going to get us where we want to be.  In fact, he seems pretty honest about that being decidedly not the case, even though he admits the players themselves are going to work hard to play well and try to win games.

The more I hear from Ainge, the more likely I think it is that the vast majority of the players currently on the Celtics are not going to be on the roster the next time this team is playing truly meaningful games in April.

[GreenEnvy]

I think it strange that in an article where Ainge claims that he does not see a franchise changing player coming out in this year's draft when people on this blog have been salivating over high school kids and calling them the next Lebron, Durant, Rose or Carmelo, the major topic in the discussion is whether a reporter who has followed the team a long time exaggerated a bit about seeing a future HOFer on the roster every year he has followed the team.

Danny Ainge doesn't see Wiggins or Randle or Parker or Smart as being franchise changing players. Never mind Jabbar or Duncan, he doesn't even see a Durant.

That is the big news in this article. That and the fact that it appears he would rather go the route he took in 2007 to get franchise guys(by trading for them) than drafting potential one and possibly never seeing that materialize or watch it materialize and then see the player leave. His talk about the perceived value of his players around the league was very telling, IMHO.

Smokescreen.

Will lessen the investigation when we win 16 games this season.

[Gainesville Celtic]

like it or not, Rick P. is a Hall of Famer in the Basketball Hall of Fame (note: not just the NBA)

LA LA LA LA LA LA LA --- I CAN"T HEAR YOU!!!!!!

I think it strange that in an article where Ainge claims that he does not see a franchise changing player coming out in this year's draft when people on this blog have been salivating over high school kids and calling them the next Lebron, Durant, Rose or Carmelo, the major topic in the discussion is whether a reporter who has followed the team a long time exaggerated a bit about seeing a future HOFer on the roster every year he has followed the team.

Danny Ainge doesn't see Wiggins or Randle or Parker or Smart as being franchise changing players. Never mind Jabbar or Duncan, he doesn't even see a Durant.

That is the big news in this article. That and the fact that it appears he would rather go the route he took in 2007 to get franchise guys(by trading for them) than drafting potential one and possibly never seeing that materialize or watch it materialize and then see the player leave. His talk about the perceived value of his players around the league was very telling, IMHO.

I don't believe any of that from Ainge. It's nothing but subterfuge IMO.

[nickagneta]

I don't know about the whole smokescreen subterfuge thing about the draft. Ainge made it extremely clear there were franchise changing players in the 2007 draft and that there were two, well ahead of the draft. I don't see a need to be setting up smokescreens regarding the quality of players in a draft. Their pick will be determined by their record. The salary of that player is per-determined. They aren't going to be moving pieces to acquire a second top 10 pick next year(major assumption but I think it a good one).

He has a bad team. He has an injured star. His team's record is going to be bad. A smokescreen isn't going to stop some massive investigation into the team for purposeful tanking. So why do it?

I don't see a motive for setting up a smokescreen for the perceived quality of the talent coming out of college next year. I do not see what such a thing would accomplish. I think he just believes these young kids have been massively over-hyped(they have) and won't be as good as advertised(most usually aren't).