The Kyrie Irving free agency thread(to sign 4yr/$141M w/Nets page 105)

[Never Nervous Pervis]

there was consensus on Rondo and IT. Those two were not polarizing. There was consensus that Rondo was a headcase, and that IT was an awesome Celtic.

The arguments were:  Rondo was a headcase/ holds ball too long/only plays D when he feels like it.  With IT it was 'he's a liability on D' or (with some old school fans) he shoots too much.

With IT I always pointed to the 29 ppg and how many players are capable of doing that without destroying team chemistry.? 

I would take the old IT over Kyrie- gladly. With Rondo the the same arguments apply to some of the current Celtics - and not just the PG's.

To be fair, the criticism about Rondo holding the ball too long and only playing D when he wanted to came at the very end of his Celtics run. Early on, it was mainly centered on his inability (and reluctance) to shoot, and how that sometimes threw the spacing off in the half court.

With IT, critics focused on his Brinks truck comments more than anything, and used his size/lack of defense to justify it. I think most fans liked him personally and valued what he brought to the team, especially his ability to score in the 4th quarter.

The brinks truck comment was nothing more than a joke idk why people took it so serious.

You don't think he was expecting a max contract?

[RazzelnoDazzel]

there was consensus on Rondo and IT. Those two were not polarizing. There was consensus that Rondo was a headcase, and that IT was an awesome Celtic.

The arguments were:  Rondo was a headcase/ holds ball too long/only plays D when he feels like it.  With IT it was 'he's a liability on D' or (with some old school fans) he shoots too much.

With IT I always pointed to the 29 ppg and how many players are capable of doing that without destroying team chemistry.? 

I would take the old IT over Kyrie- gladly. With Rondo the the same arguments apply to some of the current Celtics - and not just the PG's.

To be fair, the criticism about Rondo holding the ball too long and only playing D when he wanted to came at the very end of his Celtics run. Early on, it was mainly centered on his inability (and reluctance) to shoot, and how that sometimes threw the spacing off in the half court.

With IT, critics focused on his Brinks truck comments more than anything, and used his size/lack of defense to justify it. I think most fans liked him personally and valued what he brought to the team, especially his ability to score in the 4th quarter.

The brinks truck comment was nothing more than a joke idk why people took it so serious.

You don't think he was expecting a max contract?

I’m sure he expected a lot of money, but on the way in which he said was a joke. People took it as an arrogant comment or something, he was just kidding. Even if he did expect a max he deserved it. His offense carried the Celtics to the #1 seed that year if I’m not mistaken. Or were they #2? He also declined an extension so the Celtics could still have cap space. He deserved every dollar he asked for.

[Never Nervous Pervis]

there was consensus on Rondo and IT. Those two were not polarizing. There was consensus that Rondo was a headcase, and that IT was an awesome Celtic.

The arguments were:  Rondo was a headcase/ holds ball too long/only plays D when he feels like it.  With IT it was 'he's a liability on D' or (with some old school fans) he shoots too much.

With IT I always pointed to the 29 ppg and how many players are capable of doing that without destroying team chemistry.? 

I would take the old IT over Kyrie- gladly. With Rondo the the same arguments apply to some of the current Celtics - and not just the PG's.

To be fair, the criticism about Rondo holding the ball too long and only playing D when he wanted to came at the very end of his Celtics run. Early on, it was mainly centered on his inability (and reluctance) to shoot, and how that sometimes threw the spacing off in the half court.

With IT, critics focused on his Brinks truck comments more than anything, and used his size/lack of defense to justify it. I think most fans liked him personally and valued what he brought to the team, especially his ability to score in the 4th quarter.

The brinks truck comment was nothing more than a joke idk why people took it so serious.

You don't think he was expecting a max contract?

I’m sure he expected a lot of money, but on the way in which he said was a joke. People took it as an arrogant comment or something, he was just kidding. Even if he did expect a max he deserved it. His offense carried the Celtics to the #1 seed that year if I’m not mistaken. Or were they #2? He also declined an extension so the Celtics could still have cap space. He deserved every dollar he asked for.

Fair enough. I wouldn't have given him a max but I loved IT and don't knock him for wanting to get paid. He legitimately had an MVP-caliber season in 2016-2017.

[RazzelnoDazzel]

What if Kyrie say he wants to go to thunder

[jambr380]

The argument with IT wasn't whether or not he was performing at the time, but if giving him a max contract was worth it. Then Kyrie Irving fell from the sky and saved us from what could have been a true disaster (of course Danny would not have given him a max contract, but you get the idea).

You are right Triboy.... no Celtic has caused so much polarization while giving so little to the team. I would like him  back, but if he leaves you cannot deny that his time here will not be remembered favorably.

I just wish people would fake it a little better then. Let him sign the 5-year max and then people are free to attack his character to their heart's content. Just let him sign first!

I do agree that Boston will not look back fondly on the Kyrie experience if he leaves, though. Even though I understand why he might not want to stay, I will still be annoyed with him for leaving our franchise in a worse place than when he arrived.

Why should be keep faking it when he didn’t? He faked it for a little and we faked it when he did. When he stopped faking it we stopped faking it.

Wait, what? You are delving into something completely different. I also think you better be careful about how you differentiate Kyrie the person and Kyrie the player. The latter works extremely hard on his game - he is not lazy at all.

Everybody acknowledges he could stand to grow as a leader and communicator - even him. He wanted an opportunity outside of Lebron to expand these things. Just because it hasn't gone perfectly doesn't mean he cannot learn and evolve. People treat Kyrie like he sacrificed their first born. Let's just get the contract signed and then be critical - no reason to lose him for nothing.

[RazzelnoDazzel]

The argument with IT wasn't whether or not he was performing at the time, but if giving him a max contract was worth it. Then Kyrie Irving fell from the sky and saved us from what could have been a true disaster (of course Danny would not have given him a max contract, but you get the idea).

You are right Triboy.... no Celtic has caused so much polarization while giving so little to the team. I would like him  back, but if he leaves you cannot deny that his time here will not be remembered favorably.

I just wish people would fake it a little better then. Let him sign the 5-year max and then people are free to attack his character to their heart's content. Just let him sign first!

I do agree that Boston will not look back fondly on the Kyrie experience if he leaves, though. Even though I understand why he might not want to stay, I will still be annoyed with him for leaving our franchise in a worse place than when he arrived.

Why should be keep faking it when he didn’t? He faked it for a little and we faked it when he did. When he stopped faking it we stopped faking it.

Wait, what? You are delving into something completely different. I also think you better be careful about how you differentiate Kyrie the person and Kyrie the player. The latter works extremely hard on his game - he is not lazy at all.

Everybody acknowledges he could stand to grow as a leader and communicator - even him. He wanted an opportunity outside of Lebron to expand these things. Just because it hasn't gone perfectly doesn't mean he cannot learn and evolve. People treat Kyrie like he sacrificed their first born. Let's just get the contract signed and then be critical - no reason to lose him for nothing.

Sometimes I hate writing because words can be read many different ways. I never said or talked about Kyries game. The fake ness I was mentioning was about him caring to actually be here.

As we are all Celtics fans here, I’ve never had to discuss so much controversy about one player. This is another reason why talent aside I’m growing to be over Kyrie, it’s just so much unwanted drama.

‘No reason to lose him for nothing’ now you’re talking about him as if he’s just an asset.

[Ogaju]

there was consensus on Rondo and IT. Those two were not polarizing. There was consensus that Rondo was a headcase, and that IT was an awesome Celtic.

The arguments were:  Rondo was a headcase/ holds ball too long/only plays D when he feels like it.  With IT it was 'he's a liability on D' or (with some old school fans) he shoots too much.

With IT I always pointed to the 29 ppg and how many players are capable of doing that without destroying team chemistry.? 

I would take the old IT over Kyrie- gladly. With Rondo the the same arguments apply to some of the current Celtics - and not just the PG's.

To be fair, the criticism about Rondo holding the ball too long and only playing D when he wanted to came at the very end of his Celtics run. Early on, it was mainly centered on his inability (and reluctance) to shoot, and how that sometimes threw the spacing off in the half court.

With IT, critics focused on his Brinks truck comments more than anything, and used his size/lack of defense to justify it. I think most fans liked him personally and valued what he brought to the team, especially his ability to score in the 4th quarter.

The brinks truck comment was nothing more than a joke idk why people took it so serious.

true fans are very sensitive and irrational. The word fan if I am not wrong comes from fanatic...why people expect fans to be rational is beyond me.

That being said, Rondo and IT received criticism from the fans for their game their game was debated by the fans, They were not polarizing. They did not cause the need for a personal complaint thread or solicitations for ignore button, etc.

[Ogaju]

The argument with IT wasn't whether or not he was performing at the time, but if giving him a max contract was worth it. Then Kyrie Irving fell from the sky and saved us from what could have been a true disaster (of course Danny would not have given him a max contract, but you get the idea).

You are right Triboy.... no Celtic has caused so much polarization while giving so little to the team. I would like him  back, but if he leaves you cannot deny that his time here will not be remembered favorably.

I just wish people would fake it a little better then. Let him sign the 5-year max and then people are free to attack his character to their heart's content. Just let him sign first!

I do agree that Boston will not look back fondly on the Kyrie experience if he leaves, though. Even though I understand why he might not want to stay, I will still be annoyed with him for leaving our franchise in a worse place than when he arrived.

Why should be keep faking it when he didn’t? He faked it for a little and we faked it when he did. When he stopped faking it we stopped faking it.

Wait, what? You are delving into something completely different. I also think you better be careful about how you differentiate Kyrie the person and Kyrie the player. The latter works extremely hard on his game - he is not lazy at all.

Everybody acknowledges he could stand to grow as a leader and communicator - even him. He wanted an opportunity outside of Lebron to expand these things. Just because it hasn't gone perfectly doesn't mean he cannot learn and evolve. People treat Kyrie like he sacrificed their first born. Let's just get the contract signed and then be critical - no reason to lose him for nothing.

Sometimes I hate writing because words can be read many different ways. I never said or talked about Kyries game. The fake ness I was mentioning was about him caring to actually be here.

As we are all Celtics fans here, I’ve never had to discuss so much controversy about one player. This is another reason why talent aside I’m growing to be over Kyrie, it’s just so much unwanted drama.

‘No reason to lose him for nothing’ now you’re talking about him as if he’s just an asset.

That is the point some here just refuse to accept.

[Never Nervous Pervis]

there was consensus on Rondo and IT. Those two were not polarizing. There was consensus that Rondo was a headcase, and that IT was an awesome Celtic.

The arguments were:  Rondo was a headcase/ holds ball too long/only plays D when he feels like it.  With IT it was 'he's a liability on D' or (with some old school fans) he shoots too much.

With IT I always pointed to the 29 ppg and how many players are capable of doing that without destroying team chemistry.? 

I would take the old IT over Kyrie- gladly. With Rondo the the same arguments apply to some of the current Celtics - and not just the PG's.

To be fair, the criticism about Rondo holding the ball too long and only playing D when he wanted to came at the very end of his Celtics run. Early on, it was mainly centered on his inability (and reluctance) to shoot, and how that sometimes threw the spacing off in the half court.

With IT, critics focused on his Brinks truck comments more than anything, and used his size/lack of defense to justify it. I think most fans liked him personally and valued what he brought to the team, especially his ability to score in the 4th quarter.

The brinks truck comment was nothing more than a joke idk why people took it so serious.

true fans are very sensitive and irrational. The word fan if I am not wrong comes from fanatic...why people expect fans to be rational is beyond me.

That being said, Rondo and IT received criticism from the fans for their game their game was debated by the fans, They were not polarizing. They did not cause the need for a personal complaint thread or solicitations for ignore button, etc.

Your memory is a bit hazy. Rondo was as polarizing a player in green as any in the previous 30 years, at least until Kyrie arrived. Here is one of hundreds of threads (and the first that came up on a quick search) where his effort and attitude were debated ad nauseam:

https://forum.celticsstrong.com/index.php?topic=75317.0

[RazzelnoDazzel]

Tbh it really just seems like the people who do want Kyrie to stay just don’t want the Celtics to end up with nothing because of him. It’s not that they love his fit here or feel like it’s going to workout and that he will become the player we need him to be.

[jambr380]

Tbh it really just seems like the people who do want Kyrie to stay just don’t want the Celtics to end up with nothing because of him. It’s not that they love his fit here or feel like it’s going to workout and that he will become the player we need him to be.

Totally. And why wouldn't you want to hold on to your greatest asset and most productive player (who is still young)? Kyrie certainly isn't my favorite star, but he's our star and we should be embracing him before he decides to leave. I do believe he has room to grow, however.

It's been said a million times, but if we re-sign him and he doesn't work out for whatever reason, we will have the ability to trade him for a pretty substantial return. I can see letting guys like Rozier or Morris walk as they are replaceable, but it's extremely difficult to get a top 15 player on your team - especially in the early prime of his career.

I just wish people would put aside their differences with Kyrie and understand that he's the best we've got and with no cap space whatsoever, another player of his caliber is not walking through that door. It's really Kyrie or nobody, and I can't believe people are stubborn enough to choose nobody.

[Never Nervous Pervis]

Tbh it really just seems like the people who do want Kyrie to stay just don’t want the Celtics to end up with nothing because of him. It’s not that they love his fit here or feel like it’s going to workout and that he will become the player we need him to be.

No, we want to keep him because he's had two excellent seasons in Boston, is a top-20 player, and he's coming off a super-efficient, All-NBA 2nd Team year. He should also help acquire and retain Anthony Davis.

Not wanting to lose an asset for nothing is another perfectly valid reason for wanting to stay, though.

[RazzelnoDazzel]

Tbh it really just seems like the people who do want Kyrie to stay just don’t want the Celtics to end up with nothing because of him. It’s not that they love his fit here or feel like it’s going to workout and that he will become the player we need him to be.

Totally. And why wouldn't you want to hold on to your greatest asset and most productive player (who is still young)? Kyrie certainly isn't my favorite star, but he's our star and we should be embracing him before he decides to leave. I do believe he has room to grow, however.

It's been said a million times, but if we re-sign him and he doesn't work out for whatever reason, we will have the ability to trade him for a pretty substantial return. I can see letting guys like Rozier or Morris walk as they are replaceable, but it's extremely difficult to get a top 15 player on your team - especially in the early prime of his career.

I just wish people would put aside their differences with Kyrie and understand that he's the best we've got and with no cap space whatsoever, another player of his caliber is not walking through that door. It's really Kyrie or nobody, and I can't believe people are stubborn enough to choose nobody.

I use to think this as well so I understand your point don’t get me wrong.

[RazzelnoDazzel]

Tbh it really just seems like the people who do want Kyrie to stay just don’t want the Celtics to end up with nothing because of him. It’s not that they love his fit here or feel like it’s going to workout and that he will become the player we need him to be.

No, we want to keep him because he's had two excellent seasons in Boston, is a top-20 player, and he's coming off a super-efficient, All-NBA 2nd Team year. He should also help acquire and retain Anthony Davis.

Not wanting to lose an asset for nothing is another perfectly valid reason for wanting to stay, though.

I’m just 1 of the few who don’t believe Kyrie will have anything to do with AD staying or not. Just sign Rondo and everyone is happy, I know Davis missed Rondo.

[Never Nervous Pervis]

Tbh it really just seems like the people who do want Kyrie to stay just don’t want the Celtics to end up with nothing because of him. It’s not that they love his fit here or feel like it’s going to workout and that he will become the player we need him to be.

No, we want to keep him because he's had two excellent seasons in Boston, is a top-20 player, and he's coming off a super-efficient, All-NBA 2nd Team year. He should also help acquire and retain Anthony Davis.

Not wanting to lose an asset for nothing is another perfectly valid reason for wanting to stay, though.

I’m just 1 of the few who don’t believe Kyrie will have anything to do with AD staying or not. Just sign Rondo and everyone is happy, I know Davis missed Rondo.

Rondo is one of my all-time favorite players but if you want the Celtics to succeed in the next 3-5 years, Kyrie is a far superior PG and it's not even debatable.