CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: TheReaLPuba on November 17, 2018, 09:54:39 PM
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...I don't think its talent or coaching.
But the chemistry is definitely off.
The spirit is lacking.
It's like these guys don't enjoy playing with one another.
Totally different than last year.
Perhaps we have too much talent and need more role players?
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yes there is something missing, they lack the passion to win. They are reading the press clippings from last year and the summer.
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...I don't think its talent or coaching.
But the chemistry is definitely off.
The spirit is lacking.
It's like these guys don't enjoy playing with one another.
Totally different than last year.
Perhaps we have too much talent and need more role players?
Agree
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what they lack is shooting so far. they get open shots and simply brick them up at way way lower rates than their individual histories would indicate.
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(http://nbatitlechase.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/PHOTO-Carmelo-Anthony-In-A-Celtics-Jersey.jpg)
Yabusele for melo
Who says no
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what they lack is shooting so far. they get open shots and simply brick them up at way way lower rates than their individual histories would indicate.
Agreed. This team is terrible right now. They shoot like a JV team
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what they lack is shooting so far. they get open shots and simply brick them up at way way lower rates than their individual histories would indicate.
Agreed. This team is terrible right now. They shoot like a JV team
get Carmelo. Low risk high reward
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what they lack is shooting so far. they get open shots and simply brick them up at way way lower rates than their individual histories would indicate.
Agreed. This team is terrible right now. They shoot like a JV team
get Carmelo. Low risk high reward
Terrible idea.
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what they lack is shooting so far. they get open shots and simply brick them up at way way lower rates than their individual histories would indicate.
Agreed. This team is terrible right now. They shoot like a JV team
get Carmelo. Low risk high reward
lol
Terrible idea.
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what they lack is shooting so far. they get open shots and simply brick them up at way way lower rates than their individual histories would indicate.
Well that's true.
But why are they missing?
I mean some of these shots are WIDE - OPEN.
It has to be a chemistry issue....guys just don't feel in rhythm or are comfortable for whatever reason.
One game Jaylen looks amazing, then like tonight he can't make a shot to save his life.
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(http://nbatitlechase.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/PHOTO-Carmelo-Anthony-In-A-Celtics-Jersey.jpg)
Yabusele for melo
Who says no
Are you trolling? Melo is like Tatum if Tatum couldn’t buy a bucket, played no defence but thought he was a contenders first option offensively
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what they lack is shooting so far. they get open shots and simply brick them up at way way lower rates than their individual histories would indicate.
Agreed. This team is terrible right now. They shoot like a JV team
get Carmelo. Low risk high reward
If they get Carmelo I will root for this team to tank.
Any team with Carmelo CANNOT win.
He's not a good player especially at this point in his career.
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@JaredWeissNBA
1m1 minute ago
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That was a very tense Al Horford, who emphasized he is very concerned about the state of the offense and guys trying to get shots.
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@JaredWeissNBA
1m1 minute ago
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That was a very tense Al Horford, who emphasized he is very concerned about the state of the offense and guys trying to get shots.
whos he calling out?
Brown: 1-9
Rozier 2-9
It’s like every game is game 7 ECF lol
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@JaredWeissNBA
1m1 minute ago
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That was a very tense Al Horford, who emphasized he is very concerned about the state of the offense and guys trying to get shots.
whos he calling out?
Brown: 1-9
Rozier 2-9
It’s like every game is game 7 ECF lol
Kyrie added multiple guys do not follow the game plan.
My guess is it is Rozier and Brown and maybe Tatum.
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Like I said, what's different from last year? Hayward. Trying to integrate him into their chemistry has maybe upset the chemistry. Or changed it.
Maybe Stevens has overdone him a bit--he isn't 100% yet. Looks heavier and slower than the Utah days. Good game against Toronto, but he needs a breather after 39 mins and OT. Doesn't Leonard get time off in back to back games?
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It probably will all be ok. But, they have too many guys that need to play. They have NBA starters on the bench, they dont have NBA bench players.
Ainge should gather up his balls and make a trade but he wont. he will horde talent in case of AD.
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I think it's as simple as "they are missing a lot of makable shots"...
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I think it's as simple as "they are missing a lot of makable shots"...
I think you are exactly right. :)
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I still think a Rozier and Morris trade for someone and a first makes alot of sense. Makes Brown be the guy and thins the heard. Maybe try to get a backup point in the deal.
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with a player as great as Kyrie guys defer to him too much. Need to get back to a sense of team. Kyrie needs to bring role players in so they feel included, needed - team. More assists from Kyrie, had just 1 tonight, more ball movement on offense. We played better last year with Rozier at point and guys knowing they had to step up and stay in the game plan. This year they think they need to score to stay on the floor and are pressing for shots.
Don't need a trade the players are here it is chemistry and roles.
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When was the last time any Celtic cut back door? Seriously, I can't remember.
Our offense is too one dimensional.
Plus, we need a good interior defender like Williams.
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@JaredWeissNBA
1m1 minute ago
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That was a very tense Al Horford, who emphasized he is very concerned about the state of the offense and guys trying to get shots.
whos he calling out?
Brown: 1-9
Rozier 2-9
It’s like every game is game 7 ECF lol
Kyrie added multiple guys do not follow the game plan.
My guess is it is Rozier and Brown and maybe Tatum.
Time to start:
Irving
Smart
Hayward
Morris
Hortford
Rozier, Brown, Tatum, Theis, Baynes off the bench. And only as needed. Get their egos in check ASAP
This is the problem with having a bunch of veterans and also a bunch of young guys. Its fine when one guy needs to prove himself but difficult when 3 guys need to every night.
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@JaredWeissNBA
1m1 minute ago
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That was a very tense Al Horford, who emphasized he is very concerned about the state of the offense and guys trying to get shots.
whos he calling out?
Brown: 1-9
Rozier 2-9
It’s like every game is game 7 ECF lol
Kyrie added multiple guys do not follow the game plan.
My guess is it is Rozier and Brown and maybe Tatum.
Time to start:
Irving
Smart
Hayward
Morris
Hortford
Rozier, Brown, Tatum, Theis, Baynes off the bench. And only as needed. Get their egos in check ASAP
This is the problem with having a bunch of veterans and also a bunch of young guys. Its fine when one guy needs to prove himself but difficult when 3 guys need to every night.
Kyrie went supernova last night, and Tatum started taking better shots down the stretch. Better to keep the best 5 together, so they're familiar with each other when playoff time comes.
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I think it's a mental thing - they're unable to maintain the motivation or drive to maintain a sustained level of excellence over the season. Particularly the younger players (but not just them). Last year Hayward went down, so they had something to prove. Tatum wanted to prove he belonged, Brown wanted to prove he had improved and was a genuine starter, same for Rozier. As a result over the course of the season they overachieved, and were anointed to be in the Finals based on their team on paper before the season even started and a ball had been dribbled.
You could see the warning signs even at preseason, they players all said "well it's preseason, we'll be ready come season start". Well we're about a fifth into the season and that drive seems missing, particularly since the expectation before the season was that they would all have reduced roles to accommodate Gordon's return. Whether it's struggling with reduced roles, or uncertainty about what role they are playing, right now they are inconsistent with the fundamentals of the game - shooting the ball, defending with purpose, making the right basketball reads, attacking the basket and not being afraid to go into contact.
Every so often it all clicks, like the Toronto game - it was played like it was a playoff game and we see what they are capable of when they are switched on. But amongst the gold there's a lot of dross, like Utah tonight where they turned up not looking ready to play. All it takes is a few missed shots and their shoulders drop. It's a long season, and by no means is it panic stations, but as coach Brad needs to get them that drive back, that desire to excel every day, that willingness to adhere to the game plan. Play each game like it really matters. Have pride in your performance, no matter what your role is - that's what being a professional is.
Kyrie has it, but he's had years under his belt. The inconsistency from the likes of Tatum, Rozier and Brown is a concern, so I have to remind myself that they are young and inconsistency is part of what young players bring. Just the other night against Philly Mitchell had probably the worst 30-pt game you will see, and he's been inconsistent this year as well. Hayward I can forgive because you really can't diminish what he went through and how that affected him mentally more than physically. We need more from our vets - Horford and Smart - as well. Like Morris, they need to set more of an example.
It's a long season but it's not getting any shorter. At some point the excuses have to end, because come April the result is all that matters, and the purpose of the entire season is to achieve the result they want at that time. Brad is going to have to make some hard decisions to try and shake the team up and iron some of the inconsistency out of them if it continues.
The warning signs are blinking, and right now there's still time to do something about them. There may not be by January or February.
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Id tell you what is missing...
Brown's near 40% shooting from beyond the arc.. I mean JB is so bad right now idk what has happened to him.
And we keep giving Hayward some slack.. Come on, the guy is healthy now and should be consistently dropping 15 a game which coincidentally, we are winning everytime Gordy scores more... Since when he became Draymond as a facilitator.. We need him to score more.
Tatum needs to drive more
Horford needs to step inside the three point line as he too has regressed from deep.. May need to drive more as well.
Utah had a clinic out there as to how to drive to the hoop and we got shellacked.
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I decided to compare the team's stats this year vs at this point last year so see whether the stats are reflecting what we all see when we're watching (this time last year they were 15-2 vs 9-7 this year). Keep in mind I'm comparing starts - so players who improved significantly over the year (like Rozier) will have their last year stats "understated". Some of the results are confusing ???
TEAM Yr GP W L WIN% MIN PTS FGM FGA FG% 3PM 3PA 3P% FTM FTA FT% OREB DREB REB AST TOV STL BLK BLKA PF PFD +/-
Boston Celtics 2017-18 17 15 2 0.882 48 102.5 36.3 84.5 42.9 10.8 30.5 35.5 19.1 24.4 78.3 10.5 36.9 47.5 21.5 14.5 8.4 4.1 5.1 19.9 21.5 8.1
Boston Celtics 2018-19 16 9 7 0.563 48.6 105.4 38.9 90 43.2 12.7 36.4 34.9 15 19.4 77.2 10.4 36.4 46.8 23.4 13.7 7.8 5.2 3.4 21 20.5 2.9
It's remarkable how similar the stats are, other than the W/L column. ;D I thought for sure our 3Pt% would be a lot lower but it isn't. We're attempting 6 more shots from 3 and 5 less shots from the FT line. Our assists are slightly better, our rebounding slightly worse. Most important is the +/-, we were +8.1 last year and +2.9 this year so defensively we've deteriorated.
Here's the YTD vs last YTD comparison at the player level:
PLAYER TEAM Yr AGE GP MIN PTS FGM FGA FG% 3PM 3PA 3P% FTM FTA FT% OREB DREB REB AST TOV STL BLK PF FP DD2 TD3 +/-
Al Horford BOS 2017-18 32 15 32.2 14.9 5.7 10.3 55.8 1.4 3.3 42 2.1 2.5 83.8 1.4 7.4 8.8 4.5 2.7 0.7 0.5 1.8 33.1 6 0 9.5
Al Horford BOS 2018-19 32 16 29.4 11.5 4.7 10.1 46.3 1.3 4.1 30.3 0.9 1.4 63.6 1.7 4.8 6.4 3.5 1.6 0.8 1.6 1.7 30 1 0 0.4
Aron Baynes BOS 2017-18 31 17 18.6 5.8 2.3 5.2 44.3 0 0.1 0 1.2 1.8 64.5 2.1 3.5 5.6 1 1 0.3 0.8 2.2 16.1 0 0 2.4
Aron Baynes BOS 2018-19 31 13 14.3 5.8 1.9 4.8 40.3 0.8 2.1 37 1.2 1.5 84.2 1.7 2.5 4.2 1.2 0.5 0.2 0.5 2 14.3 0 0 1.9
Daniel Theis BOS 2017-18 26 16 12.6 4.1 1.6 3.1 53.1 0.2 0.6 33.3 0.7 0.9 78.6 1.6 2.7 4.3 0.4 1.3 0.3 0.8 2.5 11.9 1 0 0.9
Daniel Theis BOS 2018-19 26 8 11 4.9 2.1 3.6 58.6 0.3 0.8 33.3 0.4 0.9 42.9 1.1 1.6 2.8 0.5 0.8 0.1 0.3 2.5 9.3 0 0 4.1
Gordon Hayward BOS 2017-18 28 1 5.3 2 1 2 50 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 1 3.2 0 0 3
Gordon Hayward BOS 2018-19 28 15 26.7 10.1 3.7 9.2 39.9 1.1 3.8 29.8 1.7 2.1 80.6 1 4.3 5.3 3.1 1.3 1.3 0.2 1.7 24.1 0 0 1.3
Guers. Yabusele BOS 2017-18 22 6 4.1 2.3 0.8 1.8 45.5 0.3 1 33.3 0.3 0.3 100 0.8 0.7 1.5 0.2 0.3 0 0 0.8 4.1 0 0 1
Guers. Yabusele BOS 2018-19 22 9 4.2 1.8 0.4 1.4 30.8 0.1 0.6 20 0.8 0.9 87.5 0.4 0.7 1.1 0.2 0.1 0.2 0.1 0.4 4.3 0 0 -0.8
Jaylen Brown BOS 2017-18 21 17 32.3 15.8 5.6 12.4 45.7 1.9 4.8 39.5 2.6 4.3 61.6 1.3 5.3 6.6 1.1 1.5 1.2 0.3 2.8 28.3 2 0 8.7
Jaylen Brown BOS 2018-19 22 15 29.1 10.9 4.2 11.6 36.2 1.2 4.4 27.3 1.3 2.1 64.5 1.3 2.9 4.3 1.3 1.3 0.5 0.5 2.5 19.4 0 0 -0.3
Jayson Tatum BOS 2017-18 20 17 29.8 13.9 4.5 9.2 49.4 1.4 2.8 47.9 3.5 4.1 84.3 1 4.6 5.6 1.4 1.6 1 0.8 2.4 26.6 1 0 3.1
Jayson Tatum BOS 2018-19 20 16 32.3 15.9 5.6 13.1 42.4 1.8 4.4 39.4 3 3.4 88.9 1.4 5.6 6.9 2.1 1.9 0.9 0.5 2.5 29.8 1 0 4.3
Kyrie Irving BOS 2017-18 26 16 31.1 20.9 7.6 17.1 44.7 2.1 6.1 35.1 3.6 4 89.1 0.4 2.8 3.3 5.3 1.9 1.7 0.4 2.1 37 1 0 6.4
Kyrie Irving BOS 2018-19 26 15 32.6 22.1 8.5 16.9 50 2.6 6.2 41.9 2.6 3.2 81.3 0.9 3.9 4.9 5.6 2.3 1.7 0.6 2.5 40.8 1 0 1.7
Marcus Morris BOS 2017-18 28 8 23.4 13.5 4.8 10.1 46.9 1.4 3.4 40.7 2.6 3 87.5 0.5 4.8 5.3 1.1 1.1 0.8 0.3 1.4 23.4 1 0 1.3
Marcus Morris BOS 2018-19 29 15 25.8 13.8 4.9 10.1 48.7 2.1 4.7 45.7 1.8 2.2 81.8 0.7 5.7 6.5 1.1 1.9 0.5 0.2 2.8 23.4 2 0 0.1
Marcus Smart BOS 2017-18 24 15 30.4 9.1 2.7 10 27.3 1.2 4.4 27.3 2.4 3.1 76.6 1.3 3.3 4.5 5.1 2.2 1.5 0.4 2.4 25.6 0 0 7.9
Marcus Smart BOS 2018-19 24 16 23.1 5.5 1.8 4.9 35.4 0.8 2.9 25.5 1.3 1.7 74.1 0.6 2.3 2.8 3.9 1.6 1.2 0.6 2.7 18.3 1 0 1.7
Semi Ojeleye BOS 2017-18 23 16 13.6 2.7 0.8 2.4 34.2 0.6 1.9 30 0.5 0.6 80 0.4 1.2 1.6 0.1 0.3 0.3 0 1.1 5.5 0 0 -1.9
Semi Ojeleye BOS 2018-19 23 11 9 2.3 0.9 1.9 47.6 0.3 1.1 25 0.2 0.5 40 0.4 0.8 1.2 0 0.2 0.3 0.1 0.7 4.6 0 0 2.5
Terry Rozier BOS 2017-18 24 17 24.4 9.1 3.2 9.2 34.4 1.5 4.5 32.5 1.3 1.6 81.5 0.8 4.2 4.9 2.3 0.7 1.1 0.1 1.3 21.3 0 0 2.9
Terry Rozier BOS 2018-19 24 16 23.3 8.4 3.1 8.4 36.6 1.3 3.7 33.9 1 1.4 72.7 0.4 4 4.4 2 0.6 0.6 0.3 1.4 18.7 0 0 0.9
Jaylen, Al and Smart's ppg numbers have dropped even though their attempts have remained approximately the same (except Smart he's attempting a lot less this year). It was interesting that the attempts remained the same despite Gordon in the team this year. The mix is different, they (along with Tatum) attempting more 3s than this time last year and have big drops in their 3pfg%. What's interesting is Jaylen is actually taking less threes this year than this time last year and is missing more of them. As for Gordon, nobody expected him to be his usual efficient self but it's fair to say that the points he's scored this year have come at a much more inefficient rate than the players who had to cover for him last year.
Finally I looked at the schedule:
G H/A Opponent Result Tm Opp W L Streak G H/A Opponent Result Tm Opp W L Streak
1 H Philadelphia 76ers W 105 87 1 0 W 1 1 A Cleveland Cavaliers L 99 102 0 1 L 1
2 A Toronto Raptors L 101 113 1 1 L 1 2 H Milwaukee Bucks L 100 108 0 2 L 2
3 A New York Knicks W 103 101 2 1 W 1 3 A Philadelphia 76ers W 102 92 1 2 W 1
4 H Orlando Magic L 90 93 2 2 L 1 4 H New York Knicks W 110 89 2 2 W 2
5 A Oklahoma City Thunder W 101 95 3 2 W 1 5 A Milwaukee Bucks W 96 89 3 2 W 3
6 A Detroit Pistons W 109 89 4 2 W 2 6 A Miami Heat W 96 90 4 2 W 4
7 H Detroit Pistons W 108 105 5 2 W 3 7 H San Antonio Spurs W 108 94 5 2 W 5
8 H Milwaukee Bucks W 117 113 6 2 W 4 8 H Sacramento Kings W 113 86 6 2 W 6
9 A Indiana Pacers L 101 102 6 3 L 1 9 A Oklahoma City Thunder W 101 94 7 2 W 7
10 A Denver Nuggets L 107 115 6 4 L 2 10 A Orlando Magic W 104 88 8 2 W 8
11 A Phoenix Suns W (OT) 116 109 7 4 W 1 11 A Atlanta Hawks W 110 107 9 2 W 9
12 A Utah Jazz L 115 123 7 5 L 1 12 H Los Angeles Lakers W 107 96 10 2 W 10
13 A Portland Trail Blazers L 94 100 7 6 L 2 13 H Charlotte Hornets W 90 87 11 2 W 11
14 H Chicago Bulls W 111 82 8 6 W 1 14 H Toronto Raptors W 95 94 12 2 W 12
15 H Toronto Raptors W (OT) 123 116 9 6 W 2 15 A Brooklyn Nets W 109 102 13 2 W 13
16 H Utah Jazz L 86 98 9 7 L 1 16 H Golden State Warriors W 92 88 14 2 W 14
17 A Atlanta Hawks W 110 99 15 2 W 15
We played a few more lottery teams last year and our away games this year came against better opposition. Hopefully this next month or so balances that out.
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I think we are shooting poorly and we only get motivated to play against good teams. Against teams that are decent or bad, I think we have shown a hubris that has allowed the other teams to trounce on us and take advantage of the opportunity. We need to take every team seriously.
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We're missing starting Horford/Baynes in our frontcourt.
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We're missing starting Horford/Baynes in our frontcourt.
We're playing too fancy. Trying to play with 5 shooters, multiple players who can be the ballhandler, everybody can be a volume scorer. We need to get back to basics.
Play with a rim protector who sets screens on offense and plays the boards hard. Have wing players who move off the ball for cuts to the basket or get open for a corner three. When was the last time we saw a simple pick-and-roll executed?
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a true leader
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A rim protector who can also rebound and score..alway said Howard been perfect for this team
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A rim protector who can also rebound and score..alway said Howard been perfect for this team
There’s the whole being a complete locker room cancer issue with Dwight
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I personally think we need to bench one of the scorers in the starting line-up for Baynes at this point. I personally would lean towards benching Hayward at this point of the process. That will make our starting offense more focused on who does what, pretty similar to last year.
This idea of a free flowing offense clearly isn't working for us, I think these guys need defined roles. I don't believe it's just as simple as we're missing shots.
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When was the last time any Celtic cut back door? Seriously, I can't remember.
Our offense is too one dimensional.
This is very true. The guys need to move without the ball. Set screens, cut, find open spots - anything but sitting behind the 3pt line. 35 or 40 3pt shots a night isn’t fun to watch....or a sustainable winning formula.
Does anyone knows what’s the second worst shot? One step behind your natural range....
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A rim protector who can also rebound and score..alway said Howard been perfect for this team
There’s the whole being a complete locker room cancer issue with Dwight
Not to mention he requires touches.....as in, he won’t give you effort for free.
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We're missing starting Horford/Baynes in our frontcourt.
I agree with this as something to try!
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When was the last time any Celtic cut back door? Seriously, I can't remember.
Our offense is too one dimensional.
This is very true. The guys need to move without the ball. Set screens, cut, find open spots - anything but sitting behind the 3pt line. 35 or 40 3pt shots a night isn’t fun to watch....or a sustainable winning formula.
Does anyone knows what’s the second worst shot? One step behind your natural range....
Too few touches for Horford.
Too many drives to the hoop being kicked out sloppily for 3's.
Mostly just a mojo thing overall. We saw glimpses of the "playoff mojo" vs Raptors on Friday. It's still there. They'll get it back.
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Shaq and Barkley were right...not enough touches for everyone and its hard not to get in a rythem when u not playing many minutes
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I think Kyrie is right here:
"I think last year, the young guys that are in the locker room now, some of the guys that are playing, they were a little bit younger. They weren't expected to do as much, and I think that the amount of pressure that we put on them to perform every single night is something that they have to get used to, being part of a great team like this."
"If you're not playing to the standard then, as a team, we just don't all click," Irving continued. "I think once we get that, and we find that consistency, we'll be good."
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25308993/nba-celtics-letting-their-putrid-offense-affect-their-play
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Tatum and Brown have to learn to keep playing through disappointing swings and individual plays that don't go their way.
Also, they are on a team that's supposed to be a title contender, and so when things go well they are getting too happy. Stop with the celebrations after made three pointers and dunks (even it's just a momentary mental celebration). Stop getting so high when there's a good or great play. Stay grounded and keep playing through the good and bad, until the game is in hand.
No more stare downs after a dunk, which is a waste of energy and just motivates the other team. Even Al has been doing this. Cut the macho crap you're the Celtics. Just run back and play defense and rest and celebrate when the other team has been put away.
Let Morris be the trash talker, enforcer, guy who stares... other players shouldn't be emulating him. I like that about Kyrie. He makes a great play and acts like it's natural and doesn't show up the other team... That approach should be emulated by everyone on the team not named Marcus Morris, who is just being himself when he does it. One Mook per team is perfect.
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We're missing starting Horford/Baynes in our frontcourt.
TP...wholeheartedly agree with is....and to this a TP too:
I personally think we need to bench one of the scorers in the starting line-up for Baynes at this point. I personally would lean towards benching Hayward at this point of the process. That will make our starting offense more focused on who does what, pretty similar to last year.
This idea of a free flowing offense clearly isn't working for us, I think these guys need defined roles. I don't believe it's just as simple as we're missing shots.
I'd take it one step further: put Hayward AND Brown in the second unit for now.
I would go with a starting line-up of:
Kyrie
Rozier or Smart
Tatum
Horford
Baynes
A bench of Hayward, Morris, Brown, (Smart or Rozier) and Theis (when healthy and black in sync) would be a lot for other teams to handle.
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No more stare downs after a dunk, which is a waste of energy and just motivates the other team
Yeah, stares can really tire a guy out, shouldn't do it. Are you kidding me it takes zero energy to stare at a guy, it certainly can stop a guy from getting back on D, though, but it is not tiring in the slightest bit and your statement is borderline ridiculous on that half of it. Thanks for the laugh that was the funniest I have read in a long time.
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No more stare downs after a dunk, which is a waste of energy and just motivates the other team
Yeah, stares can really tire a guy out, shouldn't do it. Are you kidding me it takes zero energy to stare at a guy, it certainly can stop a guy from getting back on D, though, but it is not tiring in the slightest bit and your statement is borderline ridiculous on that half of it. Thanks for the laugh that was the funniest I have read in a long time.
It takes zero energy, but it takes a certain amount of attention, which detracts from the focus that they should be having to get back on defense and make the next play.
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No more stare downs after a dunk, which is a waste of energy and just motivates the other team
Yeah, stares can really tire a guy out, shouldn't do it. Are you kidding me it takes zero energy to stare at a guy, it certainly can stop a guy from getting back on D, though, but it is not tiring in the slightest bit and your statement is borderline ridiculous on that half of it. Thanks for the laugh that was the funniest I have read in a long time.
You're a punk and a know nothing.
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No more stare downs after a dunk, which is a waste of energy and just motivates the other team
Yeah, stares can really tire a guy out, shouldn't do it. Are you kidding me it takes zero energy to stare at a guy, it certainly can stop a guy from getting back on D, though, but it is not tiring in the slightest bit and your statement is borderline ridiculous on that half of it. Thanks for the laugh that was the funniest I have read in a long time.
It takes zero energy, but it takes a certain amount of attention, which detracts from the focus that they should be having to get back on defense and make the next play.
Thank you for the reasonable take. TP. It's about mental focus...not calories..
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a true leader
Good point.
Freaking Marcus Smart is the longest tenured Celtic.
I don't believe Kyrie or Hayward feel like they are Celtics yet.
It took Horford a few years to really BECOME a Celtic.
And I don't know what has gotten in to Tatum...he's taking very difficult terrible shots a la Kobe Bryant.....please stop that.
You're BETTER THAN THAT.
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it takes a certain amount of attention,
Be Honest, you too can you or did you ever dunk? I could and that takes more effort than the stare.
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Patience.
All will be ok.
No need for any knee-jerk trades...no panic buttons...
Just patience.
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everything mentioned in this thread is not the reason - it's a result. and the only thing missing with this team is the chemistry.
this is all a result of stevens bad decisions.
stevens killed the chemistry right off the bat with this team this season by forcing hayward into the starting line up... esp. since he wasn't ready. and now it seems he's ruined brown in favor of forcing chemistry that may never come... because chemistry grows organically not manufactured on a chalk board.
tatum and brown should not be the guys that have to adjust, they earned that last season.
but stevens fix all solution is always to go small even when the stats prove otherwise. esp. considering it's been a well known fact that horford does not play well at center. and last season we were a top defensive unit with baynes starting at center.
if stevens is going to get the majority of the credit for our success then he has to get some of the blame when there's failure.
if the starting line up changes you decide who was right.
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Carmelo Anthony 😂😂😂
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Start Baynes and play Williams.
Teams are just driving inside and shooting layups because we are small and weak.
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it takes a certain amount of attention,
Be Honest, you too can you or did you ever dunk? I could and that takes more effort than the stare.
What does that have to do with not getting back on defense because you're too busy staring down your opponent?
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Tatum starting to play better
Brown is lost. Needs to pick his time to attack and finish strong. Stop being overly creative.
Al has made careless turnovers that is beneath him.
Hayward overpasses. Drive to the hole and draw fouls. Your shot stinks right now and you pass too much.
Kyrie is doing it right on offense, our leader. He is playing hard on defense but still gets overmatched a lot and our defense breaks down.
Marcus actually has adjusted and has started to post up effectively on offense. Struggling to cover bigger quick guys like Kyrie.
No complaints about Morris. He’s cooled off a little but who wouldn’t. Plays hard.
Rozier still immature. Too emotional. Tries to even the score when he gets burned on defense. Takes too many risks.
Stevens would like use deep bench guys more but worries about hurting feelings of starters who are underperforming.
Danny would like to make moves but bad time to move guys playing like crap. And who’s available who would immediately help?
My two cents.
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Jaylen Brown has sucked so far this season.
Gordon Hawyard has been underwhelming to say the least.
Kyrie, Tatum and Horford (for the most part) have been just fine.
We NEED a big and a shooting guard. Horford is a PF, NOT a C and Baynes is a back-up
We have 3 guys in our starting lineup that are wings.
Totally redundancy.
To me right now, other than Kyrie, no one is off-limits in a deal that will improve our roster.
I was at the game last night and it sucked. In the 2nd half of the game, the excitement in the building was non-existent.
Our play on the court is alot worse than our record indicates.
We should not be getting owned by the Utah Jazz.
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One thing to point out - this team has never really had a free flowing offense, not even last year. We shot 45% from the floor last year which was 21st in the league and averaged 104 ppg which was 20th. In the playoffs it was even worse - 43% from the floor and 101 ppg both of which were in the bottom third of playoff teams. Where we ranked high last year was in our 3pt shooting, we were 2nd at 37% in the regular season, though in the playoffs it dropped to 34%.
This year we're shooting 43% from the floor which is 29th and 34% from 3 and averaging 105 ppg which is 24th. So we've regressed even from last year's mediocrity. But it's not like we were running our offense like a well oiled machine last year. This team just doesn't shoot well.
Defensively we're about the same - def rating of 103.1 last year which was 2nd in the league vs 101.3 this year, which is 1st.
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We're missing starting Horford/Baynes in our frontcourt.
TP...wholeheartedly agree with is....and to this a TP too:
This times 1 million.
The current starting lineup is -4.3 per 100 possessions.
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A real franchise player
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Jaylen Brown has sucked so far this season.
100% correct.
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I think, as fans, we need to look in the mirror. I personally had unrealistic expectations of this team. In. Retrospect we should have expected growing pains in the early part of the season. Integration of 2 players coming off of injury, young players adjusting to new roles, with the reintegration of the injured veterans. Both Brown and Tatum are being asked to take on supporting roles to Kyrie, and Hayward, after being alpha players late season and in the playoffs.
The team is over .500 after a rough early season schedule and lost to Utah, a likely western playoff team on the second game of a B2B after an overtime victory over the best team in the east. That's disappointing, especially at home, but no reason to panic and not completely unexpected.
I preach patience.
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Team shoots waaaaaay too many 3s..only players that are really 3 point shooters are Hayward & Irving..
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Too many nice guys in the starting lineup. I have the feeling the opposing players fear our bench mob more than our starting unit..
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Team shoots waaaaaay too many 3s..only players that are really 3 point shooters are Hayward Tatum & Irving..
Fixed
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Our two young hopefuls play with little urgency and little-sustained energy.
We all hoped we had 2 fast developing young studs on our hands. I myself hoped we had 2 Mitchell type of players that quickly would find their NBA stride. In reality, both will take several full years more to find their game so as to be counted on, night in and night out. Brown I'm afraid is looking more like Gerald Green that a Victor Oladipo.
Teams have figured where to attack us, especially when we shoot like crap from the outside most of the time. Horford is not a center, he's a PF. Baynes is a backup NBA Center, a pretty good one, but still a backup. He is at best a solid positional defender who can't score in the paint and can't get off the floor quickly enough to protect the rim.
Some players can't play off the bench, they need sustained minutes. Terry Rozier looks like one of these types. A team would get "okay" numbers out of Terry as a starter someplace else. They wouldn't win very much.
Hayward will take more time, and while he's taking that time he's worth pennies on the dollar as a trade option.
I have a feeling Horford would re-structure his deal to stay in Boston. Just a feeling.
That leaves secondary players and draft picks as our trade options. This team needs a real NBA center and some players that can play and score right now, not in 2 years maybe.
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I am waiting until the twenty game mark to draw any definitive conclusions about where the team is at.
My feeling generally is that they're great, already, on defense. On offense they don't really have it figured out yet unless they're burning down the gym from outside or Kyrie is going off for forty.
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Team shoots waaaaaay too many 3s..only players that are really 3 point shooters are Hayward Tatum & Irving..
Fixed
I swear people still think the non big man white guys are all knockdown shooters. Hayward can be a great player but he’s never been a great shooter.
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RE the OP: the overall chemistry on offense is definitely lacking so far (it's been mostly great on D). It feels like the team is kinda collectively holding open the #2 spot on the totem pole for Hayward, and he's not quite ready to take it yet.
I still feel like a lot of it's just as simple as making an even league-average level of open shots, which we're doing great at creating. Some of that's intertwined with the chemistry, though.
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What does that have to do with not getting back on defense because you're too busy staring down your opponent?
Because you two were being ludicrous about the energy it takes to stare and borderline ridiculous. BTW, it was me that pointed out that is it more important to get back on D as the real issue with it. You defended the poster that I called out for that so that is what it had to do with it. Don't try to be all snarky about my posts and act indignant I call you on it or come back at you....
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If you look at all the numbers from last year's team stats vs this year's team stats, just about every stat is the same except three. The percentage of FGA that are 3PTA(35.7% vs 40.4%), 3PTA(30.4 vs 36.4) and 3PT%(37.7% vs 34.9%).
So the three pointer is a significant larger part of their offense, they're taking 6 more 3 pointers per game but shooting almost 3% lower in 3PT%.
The defense is about the same. Rebounding, assists, steals, shots, fg%, etc. etc. are almost all the same as last year. But these 3 stats stick out.
Tatum, Horford, Brown, Smart, Ojeleye and Rozier all are shooting the three at a significantly lower percentage this year vs last year. Hayward is shooting the three significantly lower this year vs his career norms. Wanamaker is shooting significantly worse this year as compared to Shane Larkin last year.
Want to know what's missing? The ability to make three point shots while shooting more three pointers. Looking at the stats, that's really the only difference.
That's definitely on almost all the players and is just hard to explain. They take the most wide open threes in the league but absolutely suck at it.
But it's also on Stevens for not taking the team to task for taking so many threes when it's an uneffective shot for them. He is always saying those are great shots, just gotta hit them. How about stress going to the hole more?
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Nick,
I love CBS but I am beginning to think he is system coach that was and is best at playing with less talented players. Other teams seem to have figured out a lot of gimmicks. I also don't think he has clue on how to play classical big man. He only wants guys to who fit the system. Robert Williams has way more physical talent than our present bigs. He is a rookie and does not know anything but he could at least protect the rim. He also plays with energy, and I feel he would be better on our bench than Brad Wanamaker. The boy wonder coach has become a boy. He needs to reflect on what he can do differently. Maybe realize that other teams are adapting to the small ball only mantra.
Some of this is on the players too, the desperate effort we saw last playoffs from a galvanized team is not there. Our shot selection is poor and they are not making shots. We turn the ball over way to much and do not protect our possessions. They need to reflect on what did not do in the off season and also their physical toughness.
It seems to me that they are going through the motions and expecting to win off their hype. This is on both CBS and the players. People are looking for a scapegoat but there is plenty of blame to go around. We have big targets on our back this year and we are every's team chance to show they can beat a contender.
I will be here win or lose. This is still my team. I am not discouraged but I am a bit disappointed. I still think we can right the ship. I think Hayward is showing signs or improvement here and there. Kyrie is back but HE CAN"T DO IT ALONE................. It is not all gloom and doom and I still look forward to each game as the start of a streak.
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Nick,
I love CBS but I am beginning to think he is system coach that was and is best at playing with less talented players. Other teams seem to have figured out a lot of gimmicks. I also don't think he has clue on how to play classical big man. He only wants guys to who fit the system. Robert Williams has way more physical talent than our present bigs. He is a rookie and does not know anything but he could at least protect the rim. He also plays with energy, and I feel he would be better on our bench than Brad Wanamaker. The boy wonder coach has become a boy. He needs to reflect on what he can do differently. Maybe realize that other teams are adapting to the small ball only mantra.
Some of this is on the players too, the desperate effort we saw last playoffs from a galvanized team is not there. Our shot selection is poor and they are not making shots. We turn the ball over way to much and do not protect our possessions. They need to reflect on what did not do in the off season and also their physical toughness.
It seems to me that they are going through the motions and expecting to win off their hype. This is on both CBS and the players. People are looking for a scapegoat but there is plenty of blame to go around. We have big targets on our back this year and we are every's team chance to show they can beat a contender.
I will be here win or lose. This is still my team. I am not discouraged but I am a bit disappointed. I still think we can right the ship. I think Hayward is showing signs or improvement here and there. Kyrie is back but HE CAN"T DO IT ALONE................. It is not all gloom and doom and I still look forward to each game as the start of a streak.
Yeah, Stevens is definitely a system coach, almost all coaches are, especially college coaches which Stevens started out as. About the only ones that aren't are former NBA players that allow their superstars to control the offense if they have superstars. Pops, Jackson, Carlisle, Kerr, Doc at times. They are all system coaches. All won championships.
Stevens had Baynes, a classical big man, playing center for most of last year and Stevens had his best coaching year.
Williams has played 15 minutes of garbage time. That's about all we have seen of him. Brad has seen him so much more and with 14 healthy bodies is deciding the one inactive health scratch is Williams. That says a lot. I wouldn't hang my hat on Williams being any type of answer for this team's problems.
Regarding turnovers. Last year 14.0 per game. This year 13.3 per game. Just go look at the team stats for last year's team and this year's team. As I said almost every stat is the same except the three I mentioned. The difference is three pointers taken and made. And, unfortunately for those that don't like that type of offense, that is Stevens' system. That type of system really sucks if you can't shoot three's above 35%. They need to have a 3PT% of around 38-39% to be successful in this system.
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We're just going to have to ride the storm with this team initially. They have moments when they look great. But they also have moments that are exactly polar opposite, moreso than the good ones.
I honestly don't understand the shooting thing though. I think they are all snakebitten. They get plenty of open looks but it's like no one can hit currently. Fully understand their reliance on the 3 (and their inability to attack the rim consistently and generate FTs) but the ice cold shooting is very perplexing. That's not a coaching issue; that's a player execution issue.
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We're just going to have to ride the storm with this team initially. They have moments when they look great. But they also have moments that are exactly polar opposite, moreso than the good ones.
I honestly don't understand the shooting thing though. I think they are all snakebitten. They get plenty of open looks but it's like no one can hit currently. Fully understand their reliance on the 3 (and their inability to attack the rim consistently and generate FTs) but the ice cold shooting is very perplexing. That's not a coaching issue; that's a player execution issue.
Got to believe the shooting will work its way out. I think a lot stems from players not feeling comfortable in their roles and not feeling like there is a good flow yet to the offense. When shots are clanging, I think it has a negative impact on defense, with players either getting overly aggressive or not having their head in the game defensively after missed shots.
I am pretty sure this will iron out.
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RE the OP: the overall chemistry on offense is definitely lacking so far (it's been mostly great on D). It feels like the team is kinda collectively holding open the #2 spot on the totem pole for Hayward, and he's not quite ready to take it yet.
I still feel like a lot of it's just as simple as making an even league-average level of open shots, which we're doing great at creating. Some of that's intertwined with the chemistry, though.
TP. I think that's right. Tatum should probably be the one to just seize it but it's starting to feel like he doesn't know yet how to balance being a major scoring option and just playing his role. He can do either (we saw him play a role with Kyrie and take over without him) but he doesn't have that balance yet that a #2 needs. Maybe the real problem is his lack of playmaking for others?
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We're just going to have to ride the storm with this team initially. They have moments when they look great. But they also have moments that are exactly polar opposite, moreso than the good ones.
I honestly don't understand the shooting thing though. I think they are all snakebitten. They get plenty of open looks but it's like no one can hit currently. Fully understand their reliance on the 3 (and their inability to attack the rim consistently and generate FTs) but the ice cold shooting is very perplexing. That's not a coaching issue; that's a player execution issue.
Got to believe the shooting will work its way out. I think a lot stems from players not feeling comfortable in their roles and not feeling like there is a good flow yet to the offense. When shots are clanging, I think it has a negative impact on defense, with players either getting overly aggressive or not having their head in the game defensively after missed shots.
I am pretty sure this will iron out.
Agreed re: the shooting and players fitting into their roles. Just think it might take some time for everyone to settle in. Some fans are already in panic mode asking for benching Hayward or trading Brown. That's not going to solve anything and will add more confusion imo. Brown is probably their best and most versatile wing defender who takes on the other team best wing every night. They need to get him right offensively. He's been pretty aggressive lately and it hasn't really translated 100% but I think he might be close to turning the corner soon.
I think they should stick with current lineup as I think in the end, that will be their best 5 man team. I do think they should stagger Baynes in the lineup more and the starters with the bench. Stevens loves to go with all bench lineups. I think keeping some starters with the bench unit creates a hierarchy as far as role players knowing what their role is.
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teen spirit
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RE the OP: the overall chemistry on offense is definitely lacking so far (it's been mostly great on D). It feels like the team is kinda collectively holding open the #2 spot on the totem pole for Hayward, and he's not quite ready to take it yet.
I still feel like a lot of it's just as simple as making an even league-average level of open shots, which we're doing great at creating. Some of that's intertwined with the chemistry, though.
TP. I think that's right. Tatum should probably be the one to just seize it but it's starting to feel like he doesn't know yet how to balance being a major scoring option and just playing his role. He can do either (we saw him play a role with Kyrie and take over without him) but he doesn't have that balance yet that a #2 needs. Maybe the real problem is his lack of playmaking for others?
Yeah, I feel the same way, and feel like the battle of JT vs GH for #2 dog status is very important to this team, if not the key for the entire season. My logic is based on the quality of our Big 3/4.
We have a solid #1 for a champ in Kyrie, but he’s not great, and Horford is a great #4. We need Tatum or Hayward to emerge because we need a great #2, but still want it to be a battle because we also need a really good #3 to compensate for Kyrie not being a Lebron, Durant or Curry type #1.
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We have a solid #1 for a champ in Kyrie, but he’s not great, and Horford is a great #4. We need Tatum or Hayward to emerge because we need a great #2, but still want it to be a battle because we also need a really good #3 to compensate for Kyrie not being a Lebron, Durant or Curry type #1.
It's almost a matter of having another number one option (think 1a and 1b); I agree that Kyrie, although great, is not an A-tier first option. Hayward's had enough run in this league to give us no reason to believe he can be a first option, but he's a good second, and an excellent third option. I think, ideally, Tatum would develop to match Kyrie's output in his own way, and then Hayward would assume the secondary role. Even more idealistically, Jaylen would play the theoretical third fiddle behind 1a, 1b, and 2, and then Horford would be a solid 4. And I think this could very well happen, but it appears that it my take some time to shake the rust off.
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Nick,
I love CBS but I am beginning to think he is system coach that was and is best at playing with less talented players. Other teams seem to have figured out a lot of gimmicks. I also don't think he has clue on how to play classical big man. He only wants guys to who fit the system. Robert Williams has way more physical talent than our present bigs. He is a rookie and does not know anything but he could at least protect the rim. He also plays with energy, and I feel he would be better on our bench than Brad Wanamaker. The boy wonder coach has become a boy. He needs to reflect on what he can do differently. Maybe realize that other teams are adapting to the small ball only mantra.
Some of this is on the players too, the desperate effort we saw last playoffs from a galvanized team is not there. Our shot selection is poor and they are not making shots. We turn the ball over way to much and do not protect our possessions. They need to reflect on what did not do in the off season and also their physical toughness.
It seems to me that they are going through the motions and expecting to win off their hype. This is on both CBS and the players. People are looking for a scapegoat but there is plenty of blame to go around. We have big targets on our back this year and we are every's team chance to show they can beat a contender.
I will be here win or lose. This is still my team. I am not discouraged but I am a bit disappointed. I still think we can right the ship. I think Hayward is showing signs or improvement here and there. Kyrie is back but HE CAN"T DO IT ALONE................. It is not all gloom and doom and I still look forward to each game as the start of a streak.
Blaming Coach Stevens for anything is ridiculous.
This team is too talented to be playing so badly.
It's ALL on the players!
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A coach's job is to motivate players and put them position to win, where they can execute their talents to create winning plays and buckets. The players are not making shots, but CBS has not exactly did things to turn it around and sticking to the same old ball and quite frankly it is not working very well.
I think the blame is 70% on the players, 30% on the coach. I am not calling for his head, but if something is not working part of it is on the coach to adapt.