Is Grant a goner? (Yes: Traded to DAL for second rounders)

[Atzar]

I don't think Grant is a goner.  Rather, I think he might have a chance to start, given that we want to lessen Al's workload during the season.  Also, I like the idea of playing Gallo next to Al rather than pairing him with Grant, where their collective lack of interior presence on defense and on the glass would likely pose a problem. 

He needs to earn it though. 

[Goldstar88]

Does the Gallo signing signal that the C’s will be moving on from Grant Williams, as he will be a RFA this time next year?

Why would signing someone at the tail end of his career signal that we are moving on from a young player whose timeline matches our stars?

Because of the salary cap. Gallo is 33, so I’m not sure it’s fair to say he’s at the tail end of his career considering many players are still going strong in their late 30’s. Danilo is making under $7M/year. Grant could command $10M-12M/season. I’m not sure he’s worth that kind of money.

Gallo has a player option.  If he has a good year, he’ll decline it and be an unrestricted free agent the Celtics could only offer $7.8 million to, which would likely be exceeded by other teams. If he has not good year, he’ll pick up the option but clearly be behind Grant in the rotation.

So you say that Gallo is clearly behind Grant in the rotation, but if Danilo has a good year he would decline his player option and become an UFA. How is he going to have a good year statistically if he is behind Grant in the PF depth chart. Again, why would Brad spend the MLE on a 3rd string player. It doesn’t make sense.

Being behind someone in the rotation =/= being a string behind them. Rob Williams is behind Tatum in the rotation, still first string.

How can a starter be behind another starter in the rotation when they are both on the court when the game begins?

[Kuberski33]

I have GWill in the $12-15mil per annum range on his next deal so a 4yr $50-60million deal.

I expect someone will give him a deal above the MLE with an eye to him being starter and a high level defensive option against the likes of Giannis & Durant who almost nobody in the league can defend. Strong team ethic guy who is about winning.

I think Brad offers him something in the higher end of that range - maybe $14. Whatever the number is some will say they overpaid. I think he's worth that much.

[Moranis]

I have GWill in the $12-15mil per annum range on his next deal so a 4yr $50-60million deal.

I expect someone will give him a deal above the MLE with an eye to him being starter and a high level defensive option against the likes of Giannis & Durant who almost nobody in the league can defend. Strong team ethic guy who is about winning.

I think Brad offers him something in the higher end of that range - maybe $14. Whatever the number is some will say they overpaid. I think he's worth that much.

You can't pay your 7th or 8th best player significantly more than the MLE long term.  Sure a short term deal for a true contender you can do that, but not long term. 

I made the point elsewhere, but it is worth repeating here, Boston has cap issues not because of the top, but because of the middle of its roster.  Even with Tatum and Brown being significantly less salary than most teams top 2 players, Boston still has the 5th highest payroll and they do so because they have 7 guys making more than 10 million.  Golden State has 4 such players (as do the Nets).  The Bucks have 5.  The Clippers do have 9, but their 3rd salary is less than White (who is 6 on the C's).  Boston can't sustain that model for very long, especially as it means the team has 4 or 5 totally unusable roster spots.  That is just too many.  Boston is probably going to need to trade White and turn that salary slot into 2 or 3 players, who aren't as good as White, but add to the team depth.

[indeedproceed]

Does the Gallo signing signal that the C’s will be moving on from Grant Williams, as he will be a RFA this time next year?

Why would signing someone at the tail end of his career signal that we are moving on from a young player whose timeline matches our stars?

Because of the salary cap. Gallo is 33, so I’m not sure it’s fair to say he’s at the tail end of his career considering many players are still going strong in their late 30’s. Danilo is making under $7M/year. Grant could command $10M-12M/season. I’m not sure he’s worth that kind of money.

Gallo has a player option.  If he has a good year, he’ll decline it and be an unrestricted free agent the Celtics could only offer $7.8 million to, which would likely be exceeded by other teams. If he has not good year, he’ll pick up the option but clearly be behind Grant in the rotation.

So you say that Gallo is clearly behind Grant in the rotation, but if Danilo has a good year he would decline his player option and become an UFA. How is he going to have a good year statistically if he is behind Grant in the PF depth chart. Again, why would Brad spend the MLE on a 3rd string player. It doesn’t make sense.

Being behind someone in the rotation =/= being a string behind them. Rob Williams is behind Tatum in the rotation, still first string.

How can a starter be behind another starter in the rotation when they are both on the court when the game begins?

Being 'higher in the rotation' = more consistent minutes, more definitive role.

Grant being 'higher in the rotation' doesn't mean Gallo can't have the minutes and role to have a great year. But it does mean that the team sees him fulfilling his role to be a higher priority than Gallo fulfilling his, if it's even true Grant is in front of Gallo in the rotation.

[sgrogan]

I have GWill in the $12-15mil per annum range on his next deal so a 4yr $50-60million deal.

I expect someone will give him a deal above the MLE with an eye to him being starter and a high level defensive option against the likes of Giannis & Durant who almost nobody in the league can defend. Strong team ethic guy who is about winning.

I think Brad offers him something in the higher end of that range - maybe $14. Whatever the number is some will say they overpaid. I think he's worth that much.

You can't pay your 7th or 8th best player significantly more than the MLE long term.  Sure a short term deal for a true contender you can do that, but not long term. 

I made the point elsewhere, but it is worth repeating here, Boston has cap issues not because of the top, but because of the middle of its roster.  Even with Tatum and Brown being significantly less salary than most teams top 2 players, Boston still has the 5th highest payroll and they do so because they have 7 guys making more than 10 million.  Golden State has 4 such players (as do the Nets).  The Bucks have 5.  The Clippers do have 9, but their 3rd salary is less than White (who is 6 on the C's).  Boston can't sustain that model for very long, especially as it means the team has 4 or 5 totally unusable roster spots.  That is just too many.  Boston is probably going to need to trade White and turn that salary slot into 2 or 3 players, who aren't as good as White, but add to the team depth.

I think our cap looks pretty good for the next couple of seasons.
If we can sign Al for around 10M and Grant for about 14M plus a cap increase of about 6M, that allows for the escalation of the other
existing contracts. Using the TP-MLE wouldn't change our relative cap position much.
The next year we have Brown but Al might be gone replaced by that years MLE.

If we are contenders and are comfortable spending like we are right now, we are in good shape.

[Kuberski33]

I have GWill in the $12-15mil per annum range on his next deal so a 4yr $50-60million deal.

I expect someone will give him a deal above the MLE with an eye to him being starter and a high level defensive option against the likes of Giannis & Durant who almost nobody in the league can defend. Strong team ethic guy who is about winning.

I think Brad offers him something in the higher end of that range - maybe $14. Whatever the number is some will say they overpaid. I think he's worth that much.

You can't pay your 7th or 8th best player significantly more than the MLE long term.  Sure a short term deal for a true contender you can do that, but not long term. 

I made the point elsewhere, but it is worth repeating here, Boston has cap issues not because of the top, but because of the middle of its roster.  Even with Tatum and Brown being significantly less salary than most teams top 2 players, Boston still has the 5th highest payroll and they do so because they have 7 guys making more than 10 million.  Golden State has 4 such players (as do the Nets).  The Bucks have 5.  The Clippers do have 9, but their 3rd salary is less than White (who is 6 on the C's).  Boston can't sustain that model for very long, especially as it means the team has 4 or 5 totally unusable roster spots.  That is just too many.  Boston is probably going to need to trade White and turn that salary slot into 2 or 3 players, who aren't as good as White, but add to the team depth.

I think moving forward Grant is likely to be their 5th or 6th man in terms of minutes played. But to your point I think this is where the developmental part has to kick in. This is why you take flyers on guys like Hauser, Thomas, Ryan etc - you're looking to find guys who can make your rotation and are cheap. That and/or vets looking for a ring who'll come in on a one year deal for short money - is how you round out the rotation and manage the payroll.

[Who]

Boston not having a real Big Three means that 3rd max salary slot gets split between 2-3 guys.

Rob Williams being on a cheap deal gives them more flexibility as does the two Jays being on their first max deals off of rookie contracts which are considerably lower than the max deals they'll get later in their careers. That gives them enough wiggle room for another well paid rotation member.

So Boston's salary structure is going to be two big salaries and then 2-3 guys for the 3rd max salary slot, an affordable deal with Rob Williams and an extra well paid role player because the Jays are on starter max deals. That is 4-5 well paid role players next to the Jays so 6-7 guys. Especially after Horford's contract expires.

Thankfully ownership has pushed the envelope even further by paying for Brogdon in addition to all those guys plus Horford's soon to expire deal.


If we ever swing a trade to consolidate our talent and get a 3rd  star in next to the Jays, we'll see a more normal salary structure.

And we'll see at least one of those well-paid rotation players disappear when the Jays get their 2nd max contracts here.

[Moranis]

Boston not having a real Big Three means that 3rd max salary slot gets split between 2-3 guys.

Rob Williams being on a cheap deal gives them more flexibility as does the two Jays being on their first max deals off of rookie contracts which are considerably lower than the max deals they'll get later in their careers. That gives them enough wiggle room for another well paid rotation member.

So Boston's salary structure is going to be two big salaries and then 2-3 guys for the 3rd max salary slot, an affordable deal with Rob Williams and an extra well paid role player because the Jays are on starter max deals. That is 4-5 well paid role players next to the Jays so 6-7 guys. Especially after Horford's contract expires.

Thankfully ownership has pushed the envelope even further by paying for Brogdon in addition to all those guys plus Horford's soon to expire deal.


If we ever swing a trade to consolidate our talent and get a 3rd  star in next to the Jays, we'll see a more normal salary structure.

And we'll see at least one of those well-paid rotation players disappear when the Jays get their 2nd max contracts here.

Except Horford and Brogdon are about 1.5 times the max, instead of half of it.  That is where Boston gets into a bit of trouble.  Now Horford is going to come off the books, which is why the team can do that for a year.

[Big333223]

With Gallo's lack of mobility and his height (he's probably the tallest player in the rotation) I'm betting he plays a bunch of center. Or, at least, a bunch of minutes where he's the nominal center.

Grant, on the other hand, showed he's capable of sticking with quick wings last year. I actually think we'll see a lot of Gallo and Grant together with Tatum (who's either still on the floor or has come back on after a short rest) where Gallo is the tallest of the 3, Grant is the strongest, and Tatum is the best rebounder and there's a lot of switching going on anyway.

Regardless, Grant is a decade younger than Gallo. He's not getting pushed out by someone that much older.

[gouki88]

Does the Gallo signing signal that the C’s will be moving on from Grant Williams, as he will be a RFA this time next year?

Why would signing someone at the tail end of his career signal that we are moving on from a young player whose timeline matches our stars?

Because of the salary cap. Gallo is 33, so I’m not sure it’s fair to say he’s at the tail end of his career considering many players are still going strong in their late 30’s. Danilo is making under $7M/year. Grant could command $10M-12M/season. I’m not sure he’s worth that kind of money.

Gallo has a player option.  If he has a good year, he’ll decline it and be an unrestricted free agent the Celtics could only offer $7.8 million to, which would likely be exceeded by other teams. If he has not good year, he’ll pick up the option but clearly be behind Grant in the rotation.

So you say that Gallo is clearly behind Grant in the rotation, but if Danilo has a good year he would decline his player option and become an UFA. How is he going to have a good year statistically if he is behind Grant in the PF depth chart. Again, why would Brad spend the MLE on a 3rd string player. It doesn’t make sense.

Being behind someone in the rotation =/= being a string behind them. Rob Williams is behind Tatum in the rotation, still first string.

How can a starter be behind another starter in the rotation when they are both on the court when the game begins?

Because they play less...

[Goldstar88]

Does the Gallo signing signal that the C’s will be moving on from Grant Williams, as he will be a RFA this time next year?

Why would signing someone at the tail end of his career signal that we are moving on from a young player whose timeline matches our stars?

Because of the salary cap. Gallo is 33, so I’m not sure it’s fair to say he’s at the tail end of his career considering many players are still going strong in their late 30’s. Danilo is making under $7M/year. Grant could command $10M-12M/season. I’m not sure he’s worth that kind of money.

Gallo has a player option.  If he has a good year, he’ll decline it and be an unrestricted free agent the Celtics could only offer $7.8 million to, which would likely be exceeded by other teams. If he has not good year, he’ll pick up the option but clearly be behind Grant in the rotation.

So you say that Gallo is clearly behind Grant in the rotation, but if Danilo has a good year he would decline his player option and become an UFA. How is he going to have a good year statistically if he is behind Grant in the PF depth chart. Again, why would Brad spend the MLE on a 3rd string player. It doesn’t make sense.

Why would Brad spend the MLE on a 3rd string player? Because he had an MLE and that is one the teams primary needs at the moment. Almost everything else is covered. Al and Robert Williams are expected to miss games, so when either is out, that 3rd string needs to play real minutes.

This offseason isn't over. Stevens may not do anything else, but if the team gets a bigger opportunity, I expect him to take a shot.

Right, they will miss games. Kornet is the backup and him getting “real minutes” is less than ideal. Why not use the MLE on a Center, which was clearly an area of need. The C’s already have Al as the starting PF, Grant as the backup and Tatum can play some minutes at that position as well. Gallo is going to get owned if/when he has to play the 5 and Grant does not do well at that position either.

[ETNCeltics]

Highly doubt Grant gets $15M without a big 2022-3 season. That's what KCP just got, and he'll be a starter. Grant isn't starting for a good team, except in emergencies.

[Goldstar88]

Does the Gallo signing signal that the C’s will be moving on from Grant Williams, as he will be a RFA this time next year?

Why would signing someone at the tail end of his career signal that we are moving on from a young player whose timeline matches our stars?

Because of the salary cap. Gallo is 33, so I’m not sure it’s fair to say he’s at the tail end of his career considering many players are still going strong in their late 30’s. Danilo is making under $7M/year. Grant could command $10M-12M/season. I’m not sure he’s worth that kind of money.

Gallo has a player option.  If he has a good year, he’ll decline it and be an unrestricted free agent the Celtics could only offer $7.8 million to, which would likely be exceeded by other teams. If he has not good year, he’ll pick up the option but clearly be behind Grant in the rotation.

So you say that Gallo is clearly behind Grant in the rotation, but if Danilo has a good year he would decline his player option and become an UFA. How is he going to have a good year statistically if he is behind Grant in the PF depth chart. Again, why would Brad spend the MLE on a 3rd string player. It doesn’t make sense.

Being behind someone in the rotation =/= being a string behind them. Rob Williams is behind Tatum in the rotation, still first string.

How can a starter be behind another starter in the rotation when they are both on the court when the game begins?

Because they play less...

A rotation is a pre-planned group of players that are substituted from the bench to the floor.

[gouki88]

Does the Gallo signing signal that the C’s will be moving on from Grant Williams, as he will be a RFA this time next year?

Why would signing someone at the tail end of his career signal that we are moving on from a young player whose timeline matches our stars?

Because of the salary cap. Gallo is 33, so I’m not sure it’s fair to say he’s at the tail end of his career considering many players are still going strong in their late 30’s. Danilo is making under $7M/year. Grant could command $10M-12M/season. I’m not sure he’s worth that kind of money.

Gallo has a player option.  If he has a good year, he’ll decline it and be an unrestricted free agent the Celtics could only offer $7.8 million to, which would likely be exceeded by other teams. If he has not good year, he’ll pick up the option but clearly be behind Grant in the rotation.

So you say that Gallo is clearly behind Grant in the rotation, but if Danilo has a good year he would decline his player option and become an UFA. How is he going to have a good year statistically if he is behind Grant in the PF depth chart. Again, why would Brad spend the MLE on a 3rd string player. It doesn’t make sense.

Being behind someone in the rotation =/= being a string behind them. Rob Williams is behind Tatum in the rotation, still first string.

How can a starter be behind another starter in the rotation when they are both on the court when the game begins?

Because they play less...

A rotation is a pre-planned group of players that are substituted from the bench to the floor.

It is also used as the umbrella term for how many minutes players will get over the course of the game.