Forsberg's mail bag

[slamtheking]

Why is everyone pushing to trade Horford or send him to the bench? He is starting to rediscover his 3 point shot, and has been playing great defense.  Keeping him creates a good size advantage for us, and he and Rob seem to play well together. And having Al and Rob eat up most of the center minutes is really starting to pay off.

 I could see the sentiment a few weeks ago, but not now. If we are in fact going to try to do damage this season, we will need to keep Al Horford in a starting role.  Losing him would really hurt our depth at the 5 and 4 position.

I hope the Celts don’t make decisions based upon wanting to maximize this season.  It’s a lost cause, and dealing Horford may be the only way to bring in an established veteran on a large salary who can help going forward.

I would have said the same two weeks ago but now that Smart is back, the team runs much more efficiently.  If they beat the Hornets tomorrow, they are half-game out of the 7th spot and would play Miami in the 1st round (I think).  So, I don't think it's a lost cause at all.  Playoff money is significant to management.  Continuity of making the playoffs every year is significant to the players, especially the Jays.

Yeah, I'd say it's a pretty uphill battle, but not a lost cause.  The record isn't great, but the team is also third in the conference in net rating.  Ultimately I'm in favor of the C's moving Schroder, Richardson, and Horford, in that order, because the odds are low, but not insurmountable.  (Also if there's a team needing a backup center for the minimum, they're welcome to Freedom.  I'm looking at you, Charlotte).

I'd actually like to keep Richardson.  he's been more than solid this year for the team and I think if he's still with us next year he'll perform even better with a year of Ime's system under his belt.  been the most consistent player off the bench for us all year

[Celtics2021]

Why is everyone pushing to trade Horford or send him to the bench? He is starting to rediscover his 3 point shot, and has been playing great defense.  Keeping him creates a good size advantage for us, and he and Rob seem to play well together. And having Al and Rob eat up most of the center minutes is really starting to pay off.

 I could see the sentiment a few weeks ago, but not now. If we are in fact going to try to do damage this season, we will need to keep Al Horford in a starting role.  Losing him would really hurt our depth at the 5 and 4 position.

I hope the Celts don’t make decisions based upon wanting to maximize this season.  It’s a lost cause, and dealing Horford may be the only way to bring in an established veteran on a large salary who can help going forward.

I would have said the same two weeks ago but now that Smart is back, the team runs much more efficiently.  If they beat the Hornets tomorrow, they are half-game out of the 7th spot and would play Miami in the 1st round (I think).  So, I don't think it's a lost cause at all.  Playoff money is significant to management.  Continuity of making the playoffs every year is significant to the players, especially the Jays.

Yeah, I'd say it's a pretty uphill battle, but not a lost cause.  The record isn't great, but the team is also third in the conference in net rating.  Ultimately I'm in favor of the C's moving Schroder, Richardson, and Horford, in that order, because the odds are low, but not insurmountable.  (Also if there's a team needing a backup center for the minimum, they're welcome to Freedom.  I'm looking at you, Charlotte).

I'd actually like to keep Richardson.  he's been more than solid this year for the team and I think if he's still with us next year he'll perform even better with a year of Ime's system under his belt.  been the most consistent player off the bench for us all year

I like Richardson well enough.  I want him to be traded because a) I think he's good and is worth a decent return on the trade market and b) He's owed $12+ million next year and I think his salary might get in the way of a larger upgrade.  If the C's couldn't get a good enough return, I'm happy for him to be kept, but I think the best version of the Celtics in the next couple of seasons doesn't include him on the roster.

[RJ87]

Why is everyone pushing to trade Horford or send him to the bench? He is starting to rediscover his 3 point shot, and has been playing great defense.  Keeping him creates a good size advantage for us, and he and Rob seem to play well together. And having Al and Rob eat up most of the center minutes is really starting to pay off.

 I could see the sentiment a few weeks ago, but not now. If we are in fact going to try to do damage this season, we will need to keep Al Horford in a starting role.  Losing him would really hurt our depth at the 5 and 4 position.

I hope the Celts don’t make decisions based upon wanting to maximize this season.  It’s a lost cause, and dealing Horford may be the only way to bring in an established veteran on a large salary who can help going forward.

I would have said the same two weeks ago but now that Smart is back, the team runs much more efficiently.  If they beat the Hornets tomorrow, they are half-game out of the 7th spot and would play Miami in the 1st round (I think).  So, I don't think it's a lost cause at all.  Playoff money is significant to management.  Continuity of making the playoffs every year is significant to the players, especially the Jays.

Yeah, I'd say it's a pretty uphill battle, but not a lost cause.  The record isn't great, but the team is also third in the conference in net rating.  Ultimately I'm in favor of the C's moving Schroder, Richardson, and Horford, in that order, because the odds are low, but not insurmountable.  (Also if there's a team needing a backup center for the minimum, they're welcome to Freedom.  I'm looking at you, Charlotte).

I'd actually like to keep Richardson.  he's been more than solid this year for the team and I think if he's still with us next year he'll perform even better with a year of Ime's system under his belt.  been the most consistent player off the bench for us all year

I like Richardson well enough.  I want him to be traded because a) I think he's good and is worth a decent return on the trade market and b) He's owed $12+ million next year and I think his salary might get in the way of a larger upgrade. If the C's couldn't get a good enough return, I'm happy for him to be kept, but I think the best version of the Celtics in the next couple of seasons doesn't include him on the roster.

This is counterintuitive. We're over the cap, so we're not a threat in the free agent market. The most realistic path to upgrading the roster is via trade, and having a midsized contract is useful for salary matching to bring back someone with bigger contract.

[Celtics2021]

Why is everyone pushing to trade Horford or send him to the bench? He is starting to rediscover his 3 point shot, and has been playing great defense.  Keeping him creates a good size advantage for us, and he and Rob seem to play well together. And having Al and Rob eat up most of the center minutes is really starting to pay off.

 I could see the sentiment a few weeks ago, but not now. If we are in fact going to try to do damage this season, we will need to keep Al Horford in a starting role.  Losing him would really hurt our depth at the 5 and 4 position.

I hope the Celts don’t make decisions based upon wanting to maximize this season.  It’s a lost cause, and dealing Horford may be the only way to bring in an established veteran on a large salary who can help going forward.

I would have said the same two weeks ago but now that Smart is back, the team runs much more efficiently.  If they beat the Hornets tomorrow, they are half-game out of the 7th spot and would play Miami in the 1st round (I think).  So, I don't think it's a lost cause at all.  Playoff money is significant to management.  Continuity of making the playoffs every year is significant to the players, especially the Jays.

Yeah, I'd say it's a pretty uphill battle, but not a lost cause.  The record isn't great, but the team is also third in the conference in net rating.  Ultimately I'm in favor of the C's moving Schroder, Richardson, and Horford, in that order, because the odds are low, but not insurmountable.  (Also if there's a team needing a backup center for the minimum, they're welcome to Freedom.  I'm looking at you, Charlotte).

I'd actually like to keep Richardson.  he's been more than solid this year for the team and I think if he's still with us next year he'll perform even better with a year of Ime's system under his belt.  been the most consistent player off the bench for us all year

I like Richardson well enough.  I want him to be traded because a) I think he's good and is worth a decent return on the trade market and b) He's owed $12+ million next year and I think his salary might get in the way of a larger upgrade. If the C's couldn't get a good enough return, I'm happy for him to be kept, but I think the best version of the Celtics in the next couple of seasons doesn't include him on the roster.

This is counterintuitive. We're over the cap, so we're not a threat in the free agent market. The most realistic path to upgrading the roster is via trade, and having a midsized contract is useful for salary matching to bring back someone with bigger contract.

I think we can get a better player than Richardson in the free agent market using the Fournier TPE.  This will hard cap us, creating a salary crunch.  One option is to stretch Al.  Another option would be to move Richardson.  I'd rather the latter if we can get enough return in a trade.

[slamtheking]

Why is everyone pushing to trade Horford or send him to the bench? He is starting to rediscover his 3 point shot, and has been playing great defense.  Keeping him creates a good size advantage for us, and he and Rob seem to play well together. And having Al and Rob eat up most of the center minutes is really starting to pay off.

 I could see the sentiment a few weeks ago, but not now. If we are in fact going to try to do damage this season, we will need to keep Al Horford in a starting role.  Losing him would really hurt our depth at the 5 and 4 position.

I hope the Celts don’t make decisions based upon wanting to maximize this season.  It’s a lost cause, and dealing Horford may be the only way to bring in an established veteran on a large salary who can help going forward.

I would have said the same two weeks ago but now that Smart is back, the team runs much more efficiently.  If they beat the Hornets tomorrow, they are half-game out of the 7th spot and would play Miami in the 1st round (I think).  So, I don't think it's a lost cause at all.  Playoff money is significant to management.  Continuity of making the playoffs every year is significant to the players, especially the Jays.

Yeah, I'd say it's a pretty uphill battle, but not a lost cause.  The record isn't great, but the team is also third in the conference in net rating.  Ultimately I'm in favor of the C's moving Schroder, Richardson, and Horford, in that order, because the odds are low, but not insurmountable.  (Also if there's a team needing a backup center for the minimum, they're welcome to Freedom.  I'm looking at you, Charlotte).

I'd actually like to keep Richardson.  he's been more than solid this year for the team and I think if he's still with us next year he'll perform even better with a year of Ime's system under his belt.  been the most consistent player off the bench for us all year

I like Richardson well enough.  I want him to be traded because a) I think he's good and is worth a decent return on the trade market and b) He's owed $12+ million next year and I think his salary might get in the way of a larger upgrade.  If the C's couldn't get a good enough return, I'm happy for him to be kept, but I think the best version of the Celtics in the next couple of seasons doesn't include him on the roster.

if we can get a good return on him, sure.  wouldn't hold up a deal that improves the team if his contract/value is needed to make it happen but I wouldn't just boot him off the roster for the sake of clearing a spot. 

[Roy H.]

Why is everyone pushing to trade Horford or send him to the bench? He is starting to rediscover his 3 point shot, and has been playing great defense.  Keeping him creates a good size advantage for us, and he and Rob seem to play well together. And having Al and Rob eat up most of the center minutes is really starting to pay off.

 I could see the sentiment a few weeks ago, but not now. If we are in fact going to try to do damage this season, we will need to keep Al Horford in a starting role.  Losing him would really hurt our depth at the 5 and 4 position.

I hope the Celts don’t make decisions based upon wanting to maximize this season.  It’s a lost cause, and dealing Horford may be the only way to bring in an established veteran on a large salary who can help going forward.

I would have said the same two weeks ago but now that Smart is back, the team runs much more efficiently.  If they beat the Hornets tomorrow, they are half-game out of the 7th spot and would play Miami in the 1st round (I think).  So, I don't think it's a lost cause at all.  Playoff money is significant to management.  Continuity of making the playoffs every year is significant to the players, especially the Jays.

If you're the Celts, though, do you turn down a trade that would make the team better in the long-run but hurts in the short-term?

If we were a contender, I'd say to maximize our chances of winning now.  But, with our team likely a road playoff team in our best case scenario, I wouldn't shed any tears about moving Horford and losing our starting PF if the pieces we bring back are going to help going forward.

Even without making a move I wouldn't count this team out of winning a playoff series.

Eh.  One playoff series doesn't really move the needle, though.  I'd say we should make trades looking toward the future, assuming we're upgrading the team in future seasons.

[moiso]

Woah don't do anything crazy Forsberg!    He was asked how to turn the team back into a championship contender and he's talking about switching out a couple bench players.

[keevsnick]

Why is everyone pushing to trade Horford or send him to the bench? He is starting to rediscover his 3 point shot, and has been playing great defense.  Keeping him creates a good size advantage for us, and he and Rob seem to play well together. And having Al and Rob eat up most of the center minutes is really starting to pay off.

 I could see the sentiment a few weeks ago, but not now. If we are in fact going to try to do damage this season, we will need to keep Al Horford in a starting role.  Losing him would really hurt our depth at the 5 and 4 position.

I hope the Celts don’t make decisions based upon wanting to maximize this season.  It’s a lost cause, and dealing Horford may be the only way to bring in an established veteran on a large salary who can help going forward.

I would have said the same two weeks ago but now that Smart is back, the team runs much more efficiently.  If they beat the Hornets tomorrow, they are half-game out of the 7th spot and would play Miami in the 1st round (I think).  So, I don't think it's a lost cause at all.  Playoff money is significant to management.  Continuity of making the playoffs every year is significant to the players, especially the Jays.

If you're the Celts, though, do you turn down a trade that would make the team better in the long-run but hurts in the short-term?

If we were a contender, I'd say to maximize our chances of winning now.  But, with our team likely a road playoff team in our best case scenario, I wouldn't shed any tears about moving Horford and losing our starting PF if the pieces we bring back are going to help going forward.

Even without making a move I wouldn't count this team out of winning a playoff series.

Eh.  One playoff series doesn't really move the needle, though.  I'd say we should make trades looking toward the future, assuming we're upgrading the team in future seasons.

Ya, the team is no longer in a position where they can just keep chasing no hope playoff runs because they have all these assets and picks incoming. If you can do deals that return assets but make you a little worse I think you have to do it. Doesn't mean you're selling of Rob/Jay's or even Smart but if someone offer you a decent pick for Schroder, a first for Richardson, salary relief and a useful player for Horford I think you do it because i also don't think those typee of moves ruin a playoff run.

[Vermont Green]

Ya, the team is no longer in a position where they can just keep chasing no hope playoff runs because they have all these assets and picks incoming. If you can do deals that return assets but make you a little worse I think you have to do it. Doesn't mean you're selling of Rob/Jay's or even Smart but if someone offer you a decent pick for Schroder, a first for Richardson, salary relief and a useful player for Horford I think you do it because i also don't think those typee of moves ruin a playoff run.

This is pretty much where I am at.  I hope they don't trade Schroder or JRich just to save money but for a reasonable pick or a young player at a position of need, it makes sense.  Pritchard can pick up Schroder's minutes and Langford/Nesmith can pick up Richardson's so we are not really losing all that much if anything.

Trading Horford would open up an immediate hole as we don't really have anyone to replace him.  Still, for the right deal, to get a good player that fits the long term plan, you would go ahead and trade Horford even if it was a short term step back.

I trade Smart only if it gets us a top end player.

[RJ87]

Why is everyone pushing to trade Horford or send him to the bench? He is starting to rediscover his 3 point shot, and has been playing great defense.  Keeping him creates a good size advantage for us, and he and Rob seem to play well together. And having Al and Rob eat up most of the center minutes is really starting to pay off.

 I could see the sentiment a few weeks ago, but not now. If we are in fact going to try to do damage this season, we will need to keep Al Horford in a starting role.  Losing him would really hurt our depth at the 5 and 4 position.

I hope the Celts don’t make decisions based upon wanting to maximize this season.  It’s a lost cause, and dealing Horford may be the only way to bring in an established veteran on a large salary who can help going forward.

I would have said the same two weeks ago but now that Smart is back, the team runs much more efficiently.  If they beat the Hornets tomorrow, they are half-game out of the 7th spot and would play Miami in the 1st round (I think).  So, I don't think it's a lost cause at all.  Playoff money is significant to management.  Continuity of making the playoffs every year is significant to the players, especially the Jays.

Yeah, I'd say it's a pretty uphill battle, but not a lost cause.  The record isn't great, but the team is also third in the conference in net rating.  Ultimately I'm in favor of the C's moving Schroder, Richardson, and Horford, in that order, because the odds are low, but not insurmountable.  (Also if there's a team needing a backup center for the minimum, they're welcome to Freedom.  I'm looking at you, Charlotte).

I'd actually like to keep Richardson.  he's been more than solid this year for the team and I think if he's still with us next year he'll perform even better with a year of Ime's system under his belt.  been the most consistent player off the bench for us all year

I like Richardson well enough.  I want him to be traded because a) I think he's good and is worth a decent return on the trade market and b) He's owed $12+ million next year and I think his salary might get in the way of a larger upgrade. If the C's couldn't get a good enough return, I'm happy for him to be kept, but I think the best version of the Celtics in the next couple of seasons doesn't include him on the roster.

This is counterintuitive. We're over the cap, so we're not a threat in the free agent market. The most realistic path to upgrading the roster is via trade, and having a midsized contract is useful for salary matching to bring back someone with bigger contract.

I think we can get a better player than Richardson in the free agent market using the Fournier TPE.  This will hard cap us, creating a salary crunch.  One option is to stretch Al.  Another option would be to move Richardson.  I'd rather the latter if we can get enough return in a trade.

This is the list of 2022 free agents: https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/

Not a ton of guys there that make sense for what you're proposing, especially since a sign and trade hard caps us. The big names (James Harden and Zach Lavine) are going to be priced well out of the Fournier TPE, are RFA's (Deandre Ayton), or could likely be had for the non-tax MLE or less (Kyle Anderson and Robert Covington) and aren't really upgrades.

[Celtics2021]

Why is everyone pushing to trade Horford or send him to the bench? He is starting to rediscover his 3 point shot, and has been playing great defense.  Keeping him creates a good size advantage for us, and he and Rob seem to play well together. And having Al and Rob eat up most of the center minutes is really starting to pay off.

 I could see the sentiment a few weeks ago, but not now. If we are in fact going to try to do damage this season, we will need to keep Al Horford in a starting role.  Losing him would really hurt our depth at the 5 and 4 position.

I hope the Celts don’t make decisions based upon wanting to maximize this season.  It’s a lost cause, and dealing Horford may be the only way to bring in an established veteran on a large salary who can help going forward.

I would have said the same two weeks ago but now that Smart is back, the team runs much more efficiently.  If they beat the Hornets tomorrow, they are half-game out of the 7th spot and would play Miami in the 1st round (I think).  So, I don't think it's a lost cause at all.  Playoff money is significant to management.  Continuity of making the playoffs every year is significant to the players, especially the Jays.

Yeah, I'd say it's a pretty uphill battle, but not a lost cause.  The record isn't great, but the team is also third in the conference in net rating.  Ultimately I'm in favor of the C's moving Schroder, Richardson, and Horford, in that order, because the odds are low, but not insurmountable.  (Also if there's a team needing a backup center for the minimum, they're welcome to Freedom.  I'm looking at you, Charlotte).

I'd actually like to keep Richardson.  he's been more than solid this year for the team and I think if he's still with us next year he'll perform even better with a year of Ime's system under his belt.  been the most consistent player off the bench for us all year

I like Richardson well enough.  I want him to be traded because a) I think he's good and is worth a decent return on the trade market and b) He's owed $12+ million next year and I think his salary might get in the way of a larger upgrade. If the C's couldn't get a good enough return, I'm happy for him to be kept, but I think the best version of the Celtics in the next couple of seasons doesn't include him on the roster.

This is counterintuitive. We're over the cap, so we're not a threat in the free agent market. The most realistic path to upgrading the roster is via trade, and having a midsized contract is useful for salary matching to bring back someone with bigger contract.

I think we can get a better player than Richardson in the free agent market using the Fournier TPE.  This will hard cap us, creating a salary crunch.  One option is to stretch Al.  Another option would be to move Richardson.  I'd rather the latter if we can get enough return in a trade.

This is the list of 2022 free agents: https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/

Not a ton of guys there that make sense for what you're proposing, especially since a sign and trade hard caps us. The big names (James Harden and Zach Lavine) are going to be priced well out of the Fournier TPE, are RFA's (Deandre Ayton), or could likely be had for the non-tax MLE or less (Kyle Anderson and Robert Covington) and aren't really upgrades.

There aren't a ton, but in my mind there are enough.  If you've read other threads, you'll have seen me suggest Jalen Brunson for awhile.  I also think TJ Warren will fall between the MLE and TPE if he's recovered.  Maybe Bobby Portis picks up his player option in Milwaukee, but more likely he declines it.  Would Milwuakee, already $7 million over the tax with only 9 players on the roster, sign Portis to a deal in the $12-$17 million range in year 1?  Good for them if they do, but my guess is that would just be too much for them.  There could be some others that look like targets over the coming months (Donte DiVincenzo, for example, if he can find last season's form again as his injury moves further into the past).  With so few teams having cap space, and so many teams up against the tax line, there is room for the TPE to fetch a valuable starter-level free agent.

[RJ87]

Why is everyone pushing to trade Horford or send him to the bench? He is starting to rediscover his 3 point shot, and has been playing great defense.  Keeping him creates a good size advantage for us, and he and Rob seem to play well together. And having Al and Rob eat up most of the center minutes is really starting to pay off.

 I could see the sentiment a few weeks ago, but not now. If we are in fact going to try to do damage this season, we will need to keep Al Horford in a starting role.  Losing him would really hurt our depth at the 5 and 4 position.

I hope the Celts don’t make decisions based upon wanting to maximize this season.  It’s a lost cause, and dealing Horford may be the only way to bring in an established veteran on a large salary who can help going forward.

I would have said the same two weeks ago but now that Smart is back, the team runs much more efficiently.  If they beat the Hornets tomorrow, they are half-game out of the 7th spot and would play Miami in the 1st round (I think).  So, I don't think it's a lost cause at all.  Playoff money is significant to management.  Continuity of making the playoffs every year is significant to the players, especially the Jays.

Yeah, I'd say it's a pretty uphill battle, but not a lost cause.  The record isn't great, but the team is also third in the conference in net rating.  Ultimately I'm in favor of the C's moving Schroder, Richardson, and Horford, in that order, because the odds are low, but not insurmountable.  (Also if there's a team needing a backup center for the minimum, they're welcome to Freedom.  I'm looking at you, Charlotte).

I'd actually like to keep Richardson.  he's been more than solid this year for the team and I think if he's still with us next year he'll perform even better with a year of Ime's system under his belt.  been the most consistent player off the bench for us all year

I like Richardson well enough.  I want him to be traded because a) I think he's good and is worth a decent return on the trade market and b) He's owed $12+ million next year and I think his salary might get in the way of a larger upgrade. If the C's couldn't get a good enough return, I'm happy for him to be kept, but I think the best version of the Celtics in the next couple of seasons doesn't include him on the roster.

This is counterintuitive. We're over the cap, so we're not a threat in the free agent market. The most realistic path to upgrading the roster is via trade, and having a midsized contract is useful for salary matching to bring back someone with bigger contract.

I think we can get a better player than Richardson in the free agent market using the Fournier TPE.  This will hard cap us, creating a salary crunch.  One option is to stretch Al.  Another option would be to move Richardson.  I'd rather the latter if we can get enough return in a trade.

This is the list of 2022 free agents: https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/

Not a ton of guys there that make sense for what you're proposing, especially since a sign and trade hard caps us. The big names (James Harden and Zach Lavine) are going to be priced well out of the Fournier TPE, are RFA's (Deandre Ayton), or could likely be had for the non-tax MLE or less (Kyle Anderson and Robert Covington) and aren't really upgrades.

There aren't a ton, but in my mind there are enough.  If you've read other threads, you'll have seen me suggest Jalen Brunson for awhile.  I also think TJ Warren will fall between the MLE and TPE if he's recovered.  Maybe Bobby Portis picks up his player option in Milwaukee, but more likely he declines it.  Would Milwuakee, already $7 million over the tax with only 9 players on the roster, sign Portis to a deal in the $12-$17 million range in year 1?  Good for them if they do, but my guess is that would just be too much for them.  There could be some others that look like targets over the coming months (Donte DiVincenzo, for example, if he can find last season's form again as his injury moves further into the past).  With so few teams having cap space, and so many teams up against the tax line, there is room for the TPE to fetch a valuable starter-level free agent.

Brunson should at least get a deal on par with Malcolm Brogdon and Lonzo Ball (4 years, $80-85 million), which would price him out of the TPE.

As for the others you mentioned, DiVincenzo, Warren, and Portis, are they worth being hard-capped for? Do those players move the needle enough to justify that? I really don't think so.

[Celtics2021]

Why is everyone pushing to trade Horford or send him to the bench? He is starting to rediscover his 3 point shot, and has been playing great defense.  Keeping him creates a good size advantage for us, and he and Rob seem to play well together. And having Al and Rob eat up most of the center minutes is really starting to pay off.

 I could see the sentiment a few weeks ago, but not now. If we are in fact going to try to do damage this season, we will need to keep Al Horford in a starting role.  Losing him would really hurt our depth at the 5 and 4 position.

I hope the Celts don’t make decisions based upon wanting to maximize this season.  It’s a lost cause, and dealing Horford may be the only way to bring in an established veteran on a large salary who can help going forward.

I would have said the same two weeks ago but now that Smart is back, the team runs much more efficiently.  If they beat the Hornets tomorrow, they are half-game out of the 7th spot and would play Miami in the 1st round (I think).  So, I don't think it's a lost cause at all.  Playoff money is significant to management.  Continuity of making the playoffs every year is significant to the players, especially the Jays.

Yeah, I'd say it's a pretty uphill battle, but not a lost cause.  The record isn't great, but the team is also third in the conference in net rating.  Ultimately I'm in favor of the C's moving Schroder, Richardson, and Horford, in that order, because the odds are low, but not insurmountable.  (Also if there's a team needing a backup center for the minimum, they're welcome to Freedom.  I'm looking at you, Charlotte).

I'd actually like to keep Richardson.  he's been more than solid this year for the team and I think if he's still with us next year he'll perform even better with a year of Ime's system under his belt.  been the most consistent player off the bench for us all year

I like Richardson well enough.  I want him to be traded because a) I think he's good and is worth a decent return on the trade market and b) He's owed $12+ million next year and I think his salary might get in the way of a larger upgrade. If the C's couldn't get a good enough return, I'm happy for him to be kept, but I think the best version of the Celtics in the next couple of seasons doesn't include him on the roster.

This is counterintuitive. We're over the cap, so we're not a threat in the free agent market. The most realistic path to upgrading the roster is via trade, and having a midsized contract is useful for salary matching to bring back someone with bigger contract.

I think we can get a better player than Richardson in the free agent market using the Fournier TPE.  This will hard cap us, creating a salary crunch.  One option is to stretch Al.  Another option would be to move Richardson.  I'd rather the latter if we can get enough return in a trade.

This is the list of 2022 free agents: https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/

Not a ton of guys there that make sense for what you're proposing, especially since a sign and trade hard caps us. The big names (James Harden and Zach Lavine) are going to be priced well out of the Fournier TPE, are RFA's (Deandre Ayton), or could likely be had for the non-tax MLE or less (Kyle Anderson and Robert Covington) and aren't really upgrades.

There aren't a ton, but in my mind there are enough.  If you've read other threads, you'll have seen me suggest Jalen Brunson for awhile.  I also think TJ Warren will fall between the MLE and TPE if he's recovered.  Maybe Bobby Portis picks up his player option in Milwaukee, but more likely he declines it.  Would Milwuakee, already $7 million over the tax with only 9 players on the roster, sign Portis to a deal in the $12-$17 million range in year 1?  Good for them if they do, but my guess is that would just be too much for them.  There could be some others that look like targets over the coming months (Donte DiVincenzo, for example, if he can find last season's form again as his injury moves further into the past).  With so few teams having cap space, and so many teams up against the tax line, there is room for the TPE to fetch a valuable starter-level free agent.

Brunson should at least get a deal on par with Malcolm Brogdon and Lonzo Ball (4 years, $80-85 million), which would price him out of the TPE.

As for the others you mentioned, DiVincenzo, Warren, and Portis, are they worth being hard-capped for? Do those players move the needle enough to justify that? I really don't think so.

I don't think there's a team that would give Brunson that kind of money this year, regardless if he's a comparable player.  There are three teams with projected cap space of $20 million or more: San Antonio, Orlando, and Detroit.  San Antonio already has Murray and White at the PG, Orlando has Cole Anthony, Jalen Suggs, and Markelle Fultz.  And Detroit is trying to make Cunningham a PG.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/cap/2022/

As for being hard-capped, the C's aren't going to spend above the apron anyway, so what does it matter?

[RJ87]

Why is everyone pushing to trade Horford or send him to the bench? He is starting to rediscover his 3 point shot, and has been playing great defense.  Keeping him creates a good size advantage for us, and he and Rob seem to play well together. And having Al and Rob eat up most of the center minutes is really starting to pay off.

 I could see the sentiment a few weeks ago, but not now. If we are in fact going to try to do damage this season, we will need to keep Al Horford in a starting role.  Losing him would really hurt our depth at the 5 and 4 position.

I hope the Celts don’t make decisions based upon wanting to maximize this season.  It’s a lost cause, and dealing Horford may be the only way to bring in an established veteran on a large salary who can help going forward.

I would have said the same two weeks ago but now that Smart is back, the team runs much more efficiently.  If they beat the Hornets tomorrow, they are half-game out of the 7th spot and would play Miami in the 1st round (I think).  So, I don't think it's a lost cause at all.  Playoff money is significant to management.  Continuity of making the playoffs every year is significant to the players, especially the Jays.

Yeah, I'd say it's a pretty uphill battle, but not a lost cause.  The record isn't great, but the team is also third in the conference in net rating.  Ultimately I'm in favor of the C's moving Schroder, Richardson, and Horford, in that order, because the odds are low, but not insurmountable.  (Also if there's a team needing a backup center for the minimum, they're welcome to Freedom.  I'm looking at you, Charlotte).

I'd actually like to keep Richardson.  he's been more than solid this year for the team and I think if he's still with us next year he'll perform even better with a year of Ime's system under his belt.  been the most consistent player off the bench for us all year

I like Richardson well enough.  I want him to be traded because a) I think he's good and is worth a decent return on the trade market and b) He's owed $12+ million next year and I think his salary might get in the way of a larger upgrade. If the C's couldn't get a good enough return, I'm happy for him to be kept, but I think the best version of the Celtics in the next couple of seasons doesn't include him on the roster.

This is counterintuitive. We're over the cap, so we're not a threat in the free agent market. The most realistic path to upgrading the roster is via trade, and having a midsized contract is useful for salary matching to bring back someone with bigger contract.

I think we can get a better player than Richardson in the free agent market using the Fournier TPE.  This will hard cap us, creating a salary crunch.  One option is to stretch Al.  Another option would be to move Richardson.  I'd rather the latter if we can get enough return in a trade.

This is the list of 2022 free agents: https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/

Not a ton of guys there that make sense for what you're proposing, especially since a sign and trade hard caps us. The big names (James Harden and Zach Lavine) are going to be priced well out of the Fournier TPE, are RFA's (Deandre Ayton), or could likely be had for the non-tax MLE or less (Kyle Anderson and Robert Covington) and aren't really upgrades.

There aren't a ton, but in my mind there are enough.  If you've read other threads, you'll have seen me suggest Jalen Brunson for awhile.  I also think TJ Warren will fall between the MLE and TPE if he's recovered.  Maybe Bobby Portis picks up his player option in Milwaukee, but more likely he declines it.  Would Milwuakee, already $7 million over the tax with only 9 players on the roster, sign Portis to a deal in the $12-$17 million range in year 1?  Good for them if they do, but my guess is that would just be too much for them.  There could be some others that look like targets over the coming months (Donte DiVincenzo, for example, if he can find last season's form again as his injury moves further into the past).  With so few teams having cap space, and so many teams up against the tax line, there is room for the TPE to fetch a valuable starter-level free agent.

Brunson should at least get a deal on par with Malcolm Brogdon and Lonzo Ball (4 years, $80-85 million), which would price him out of the TPE.

As for the others you mentioned, DiVincenzo, Warren, and Portis, are they worth being hard-capped for? Do those players move the needle enough to justify that? I really don't think so.

I don't think there's a team that would give Brunson that kind of money this year, regardless if he's a comparable player.  There are three teams with projected cap space of $20 million or more: San Antonio, Orlando, and Detroit.  San Antonio already has Murray and White at the PG, Orlando has Cole Anthony, Jalen Suggs, and Markelle Fultz.  And Detroit is trying to make Cunningham a PG.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/cap/2022/

As for being hard-capped, the C's aren't going to spend above the apron anyway, so what does it matter?

You're putting too much stock into who has cap space as his potential suitors. Heat didn't have cap room when they got Butler or Lowry. Philly might have a real chance to add Harden this offseason and they're over the cap. If there's enough interest on both sides, teams and agent get creative. If Brunson doesn't get a deal in line with Ball, Brogdon, or Vanvleet, he should fire his agent.

As far as being hard-capped, this team has made flexibility its buzzword over the past year. I don't think management is going to make any moves that could hinder our ability to make more moves unless the player in question is an unquestioned upgrade.