Author Topic: Maybe the C's just need to be healthy?  (Read 3845 times)

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Maybe the C's just need to be healthy?
« on: January 20, 2022, 04:31:12 PM »

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Fingers crossed that on Friday we will have the top 8-9 players available all on the same night for the first time in what has to be months.  I was curious as to how often the Celtics had their most commonly used lineup available, so I went to the lineup stats on NBA.com.  What I found is that our starting unit has played the 34th most minutes together of any 5-man combination, although it has only been available for 12 games (out of 46), which puts it outside the top 100 for games played by a 5-man lineup.  What I also found is that it performs really well together.  It's net rating is 17.5.  Of the 34 lineups with at least that many minutes together, only two have performed better.  In other words, Ime's preferred starting lineup works, and is one of the better lineups in the NBA.

Obviously there are some problems with the overall construction of the team, but the starting lineup has been remarkably successful, and hopefully we get to see it nightly for the next few weeks.  (My preferred closing lineups, with Richardson or Grant replacing Horford, also work, with a combined net rating of about 28 in 50 minutes combined).  The starters with Schroeder instead of Smart have also proven very effective in 5 games, 46 minutes of action (27.8 net rating).  Somewhere buried in this mess is a quality team.  Hopefully we can get a run of everyone being available for several games in a row to see it.

Re: Maybe the C's just need to be healthy?
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2022, 05:08:40 PM »

Offline liam

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Fingers crossed that on Friday we will have the top 8-9 players available all on the same night for the first time in what has to be months.  I was curious as to how often the Celtics had their most commonly used lineup available, so I went to the lineup stats on NBA.com.  What I found is that our starting unit has played the 34th most minutes together of any 5-man combination, although it has only been available for 12 games (out of 46), which puts it outside the top 100 for games played by a 5-man lineup.  What I also found is that it performs really well together.  It's net rating is 17.5.  Of the 34 lineups with at least that many minutes together, only two have performed better.  In other words, Ime's preferred starting lineup works, and is one of the better lineups in the NBA.

Obviously there are some problems with the overall construction of the team, but the starting lineup has been remarkably successful, and hopefully we get to see it nightly for the next few weeks.  (My preferred closing lineups, with Richardson or Grant replacing Horford, also work, with a combined net rating of about 28 in 50 minutes combined).  The starters with Schroeder instead of Smart have also proven very effective in 5 games, 46 minutes of action (27.8 net rating).  Somewhere buried in this mess is a quality team.  Hopefully we can get a run of everyone being available for several games in a row to see it.

The talent is there it just needs to be managed.

Re: Maybe the C's just need to be healthy?
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2022, 05:22:11 PM »

Offline Who

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It will definitely help. They need more than health though.

Re: Maybe the C's just need to be healthy?
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2022, 05:33:04 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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Fingers crossed that on Friday we will have the top 8-9 players available all on the same night for the first time in what has to be months.  I was curious as to how often the Celtics had their most commonly used lineup available, so I went to the lineup stats on NBA.com.  What I found is that our starting unit has played the 34th most minutes together of any 5-man combination, although it has only been available for 12 games (out of 46), which puts it outside the top 100 for games played by a 5-man lineup.  What I also found is that it performs really well together.  It's net rating is 17.5.  Of the 34 lineups with at least that many minutes together, only two have performed better.  In other words, Ime's preferred starting lineup works, and is one of the better lineups in the NBA.

Obviously there are some problems with the overall construction of the team, but the starting lineup has been remarkably successful, and hopefully we get to see it nightly for the next few weeks.  (My preferred closing lineups, with Richardson or Grant replacing Horford, also work, with a combined net rating of about 28 in 50 minutes combined).  The starters with Schroeder instead of Smart have also proven very effective in 5 games, 46 minutes of action (27.8 net rating).  Somewhere buried in this mess is a quality team.  Hopefully we can get a run of everyone being available for several games in a row to see it.

The talent is there it just needs to be managed.
The talent is there for what; 8th place?

Re: Maybe the C's just need to be healthy?
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2022, 05:52:13 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Fingers crossed that on Friday we will have the top 8-9 players available all on the same night for the first time in what has to be months.  I was curious as to how often the Celtics had their most commonly used lineup available, so I went to the lineup stats on NBA.com.  What I found is that our starting unit has played the 34th most minutes together of any 5-man combination, although it has only been available for 12 games (out of 46), which puts it outside the top 100 for games played by a 5-man lineup.  What I also found is that it performs really well together.  It's net rating is 17.5.  Of the 34 lineups with at least that many minutes together, only two have performed better.  In other words, Ime's preferred starting lineup works, and is one of the better lineups in the NBA.

Obviously there are some problems with the overall construction of the team, but the starting lineup has been remarkably successful, and hopefully we get to see it nightly for the next few weeks.  (My preferred closing lineups, with Richardson or Grant replacing Horford, also work, with a combined net rating of about 28 in 50 minutes combined).  The starters with Schroeder instead of Smart have also proven very effective in 5 games, 46 minutes of action (27.8 net rating).  Somewhere buried in this mess is a quality team.  Hopefully we can get a run of everyone being available for several games in a row to see it.

The talent is there it just needs to be managed.
The talent is there for what; 8th place?
I think on paper we have as much talent as any Eastern team outside the top 5
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Maybe the C's just need to be healthy?
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2022, 05:56:51 PM »

Offline Goldstar88

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Nah, they just need a competent head coach.
Quoting Nick from the now locked Ime thread:
Quote
At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.

Re: Maybe the C's just need to be healthy?
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2022, 05:58:40 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Nah, they just need a competent head coach.
Keep it realistic
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Maybe the C's just need to be healthy?
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2022, 06:08:05 PM »

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Fingers crossed that on Friday we will have the top 8-9 players available all on the same night for the first time in what has to be months.  I was curious as to how often the Celtics had their most commonly used lineup available, so I went to the lineup stats on NBA.com.  What I found is that our starting unit has played the 34th most minutes together of any 5-man combination, although it has only been available for 12 games (out of 46), which puts it outside the top 100 for games played by a 5-man lineup.  What I also found is that it performs really well together.  It's net rating is 17.5.  Of the 34 lineups with at least that many minutes together, only two have performed better.  In other words, Ime's preferred starting lineup works, and is one of the better lineups in the NBA.

Obviously there are some problems with the overall construction of the team, but the starting lineup has been remarkably successful, and hopefully we get to see it nightly for the next few weeks.  (My preferred closing lineups, with Richardson or Grant replacing Horford, also work, with a combined net rating of about 28 in 50 minutes combined).  The starters with Schroeder instead of Smart have also proven very effective in 5 games, 46 minutes of action (27.8 net rating).  Somewhere buried in this mess is a quality team.  Hopefully we can get a run of everyone being available for several games in a row to see it.

The talent is there it just needs to be managed.
The talent is there for what; 8th place?
I think on paper we have as much talent as any Eastern team outside the top 5

Lineups composed of only our top 8 have a net rating of 3.8. It probably could be better than that with a different coach, but yeah, it's not a bad front part of the roster.  The problem is those 8 are rarely (if ever) all available, and dipping lower than that into the rotation, even when paired with the top guys, tends to drag down performance considerably.  More than half of the minutes played this season (55%) include someone from outside that core 8.  I just want to see that group get a few weeks together.  If I had time I'd see how Pritchard does when included with the other top 8.  My guess is he doesn't have too many minutes by himself with that group tho, as opposed to also playing with Langford, Nesmith, Freedom, etc.

Re: Maybe the C's just need to be healthy?
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2022, 07:21:49 PM »

Offline liam

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Fingers crossed that on Friday we will have the top 8-9 players available all on the same night for the first time in what has to be months.  I was curious as to how often the Celtics had their most commonly used lineup available, so I went to the lineup stats on NBA.com.  What I found is that our starting unit has played the 34th most minutes together of any 5-man combination, although it has only been available for 12 games (out of 46), which puts it outside the top 100 for games played by a 5-man lineup.  What I also found is that it performs really well together.  It's net rating is 17.5.  Of the 34 lineups with at least that many minutes together, only two have performed better.  In other words, Ime's preferred starting lineup works, and is one of the better lineups in the NBA.

Obviously there are some problems with the overall construction of the team, but the starting lineup has been remarkably successful, and hopefully we get to see it nightly for the next few weeks.  (My preferred closing lineups, with Richardson or Grant replacing Horford, also work, with a combined net rating of about 28 in 50 minutes combined).  The starters with Schroeder instead of Smart have also proven very effective in 5 games, 46 minutes of action (27.8 net rating).  Somewhere buried in this mess is a quality team.  Hopefully we can get a run of everyone being available for several games in a row to see it.

The talent is there it just needs to be managed.
The talent is there for what; 8th place?
I think on paper we have as much talent as any Eastern team outside the top 5

Lineups composed of only our top 8 have a net rating of 3.8. It probably could be better than that with a different coach, but yeah, it's not a bad front part of the roster.  The problem is those 8 are rarely (if ever) all available, and dipping lower than that into the rotation, even when paired with the top guys, tends to drag down performance considerably.  More than half of the minutes played this season (55%) include someone from outside that core 8.  I just want to see that group get a few weeks together.  If I had time I'd see how Pritchard does when included with the other top 8.  My guess is he doesn't have too many minutes by himself with that group tho, as opposed to also playing with Langford, Nesmith, Freedom, etc.

It's a long season. You are going to need more than 8 players during the year.

Re: Maybe the C's just need to be healthy?
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2022, 07:48:25 PM »

Offline celts55

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Unfortunately I think they need more than health

They need at least one shooter. Maybe more. This team just can’t shoot. Hard to win.

They need an upgrade at the 4. Grant is a decent sub but Horford looks done

They need a point guard who actually moves the ball

Maybe then

Re: Maybe the C's just need to be healthy?
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2022, 07:53:33 PM »

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Fingers crossed that on Friday we will have the top 8-9 players available all on the same night for the first time in what has to be months.  I was curious as to how often the Celtics had their most commonly used lineup available, so I went to the lineup stats on NBA.com.  What I found is that our starting unit has played the 34th most minutes together of any 5-man combination, although it has only been available for 12 games (out of 46), which puts it outside the top 100 for games played by a 5-man lineup.  What I also found is that it performs really well together.  It's net rating is 17.5.  Of the 34 lineups with at least that many minutes together, only two have performed better.  In other words, Ime's preferred starting lineup works, and is one of the better lineups in the NBA.

Obviously there are some problems with the overall construction of the team, but the starting lineup has been remarkably successful, and hopefully we get to see it nightly for the next few weeks.  (My preferred closing lineups, with Richardson or Grant replacing Horford, also work, with a combined net rating of about 28 in 50 minutes combined).  The starters with Schroeder instead of Smart have also proven very effective in 5 games, 46 minutes of action (27.8 net rating).  Somewhere buried in this mess is a quality team.  Hopefully we can get a run of everyone being available for several games in a row to see it.

The talent is there it just needs to be managed.
The talent is there for what; 8th place?
I think on paper we have as much talent as any Eastern team outside the top 5

Lineups composed of only our top 8 have a net rating of 3.8. It probably could be better than that with a different coach, but yeah, it's not a bad front part of the roster.  The problem is those 8 are rarely (if ever) all available, and dipping lower than that into the rotation, even when paired with the top guys, tends to drag down performance considerably.  More than half of the minutes played this season (55%) include someone from outside that core 8.  I just want to see that group get a few weeks together.  If I had time I'd see how Pritchard does when included with the other top 8.  My guess is he doesn't have too many minutes by himself with that group tho, as opposed to also playing with Langford, Nesmith, Freedom, etc.

It's a long season. You are going to need more than 8 players during the year.

I mean, that’s obvious.  And that’s the point, really. There are all these threads/comments about the two big lineup being the problem, but it isn’t.  Or Schröder or Smart, but they aren’t really.  Sometimes other players get criticized too, but of the top 8, when it’s just them, we’re a good team.  Maybe not championship quality, but significantly better than .500.  A team that can maybe even win a series or two in the postseason.  The problem is we need more than 8 guys, and at least one of our 9-15 have been on the floor for the majority of minutes this year, and when they have been, things generally go south.  But if the top of the rotation can be available every night for a few weeks, or in the postseason, it’s a very different team.

Re: Maybe the C's just need to be healthy?
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2022, 07:57:54 PM »

Offline liam

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Fingers crossed that on Friday we will have the top 8-9 players available all on the same night for the first time in what has to be months.  I was curious as to how often the Celtics had their most commonly used lineup available, so I went to the lineup stats on NBA.com.  What I found is that our starting unit has played the 34th most minutes together of any 5-man combination, although it has only been available for 12 games (out of 46), which puts it outside the top 100 for games played by a 5-man lineup.  What I also found is that it performs really well together.  It's net rating is 17.5.  Of the 34 lineups with at least that many minutes together, only two have performed better.  In other words, Ime's preferred starting lineup works, and is one of the better lineups in the NBA.

Obviously there are some problems with the overall construction of the team, but the starting lineup has been remarkably successful, and hopefully we get to see it nightly for the next few weeks.  (My preferred closing lineups, with Richardson or Grant replacing Horford, also work, with a combined net rating of about 28 in 50 minutes combined).  The starters with Schroeder instead of Smart have also proven very effective in 5 games, 46 minutes of action (27.8 net rating).  Somewhere buried in this mess is a quality team.  Hopefully we can get a run of everyone being available for several games in a row to see it.

The talent is there it just needs to be managed.
The talent is there for what; 8th place?
I think on paper we have as much talent as any Eastern team outside the top 5

Lineups composed of only our top 8 have a net rating of 3.8. It probably could be better than that with a different coach, but yeah, it's not a bad front part of the roster.  The problem is those 8 are rarely (if ever) all available, and dipping lower than that into the rotation, even when paired with the top guys, tends to drag down performance considerably.  More than half of the minutes played this season (55%) include someone from outside that core 8.  I just want to see that group get a few weeks together.  If I had time I'd see how Pritchard does when included with the other top 8.  My guess is he doesn't have too many minutes by himself with that group tho, as opposed to also playing with Langford, Nesmith, Freedom, etc.

It's a long season. You are going to need more than 8 players during the year.

I mean, that’s obvious.  And that’s the point, really. There are all these threads/comments about the two big lineup being the problem, but it isn’t.  Or Schröder or Smart, but they aren’t really.  Sometimes other players get criticized too, but of the top 8, when it’s just them, we’re a good team.  Maybe not championship quality, but significantly better than .500.  A team that can maybe even win a series or two in the postseason.  The problem is we need more than 8 guys, and at least one of our 9-15 have been on the floor for the majority of minutes this year, and when they have been, things generally go south.  But if the top of the rotation can be available every night for a few weeks, or in the postseason, it’s a very different team.

There's foul trouble there are injuries... Someone else is going to have to be playable. I thought Romeo was playing really well yesterday and should've gone a lot longer in the 4th.

Re: Maybe the C's just need to be healthy?
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2022, 08:05:44 PM »

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Fingers crossed that on Friday we will have the top 8-9 players available all on the same night for the first time in what has to be months.  I was curious as to how often the Celtics had their most commonly used lineup available, so I went to the lineup stats on NBA.com.  What I found is that our starting unit has played the 34th most minutes together of any 5-man combination, although it has only been available for 12 games (out of 46), which puts it outside the top 100 for games played by a 5-man lineup.  What I also found is that it performs really well together.  It's net rating is 17.5.  Of the 34 lineups with at least that many minutes together, only two have performed better.  In other words, Ime's preferred starting lineup works, and is one of the better lineups in the NBA.

Obviously there are some problems with the overall construction of the team, but the starting lineup has been remarkably successful, and hopefully we get to see it nightly for the next few weeks.  (My preferred closing lineups, with Richardson or Grant replacing Horford, also work, with a combined net rating of about 28 in 50 minutes combined).  The starters with Schroeder instead of Smart have also proven very effective in 5 games, 46 minutes of action (27.8 net rating).  Somewhere buried in this mess is a quality team.  Hopefully we can get a run of everyone being available for several games in a row to see it.

The talent is there it just needs to be managed.
The talent is there for what; 8th place?
I think on paper we have as much talent as any Eastern team outside the top 5

Lineups composed of only our top 8 have a net rating of 3.8. It probably could be better than that with a different coach, but yeah, it's not a bad front part of the roster.  The problem is those 8 are rarely (if ever) all available, and dipping lower than that into the rotation, even when paired with the top guys, tends to drag down performance considerably.  More than half of the minutes played this season (55%) include someone from outside that core 8.  I just want to see that group get a few weeks together.  If I had time I'd see how Pritchard does when included with the other top 8.  My guess is he doesn't have too many minutes by himself with that group tho, as opposed to also playing with Langford, Nesmith, Freedom, etc.

It's a long season. You are going to need more than 8 players during the year.

I mean, that’s obvious.  And that’s the point, really. There are all these threads/comments about the two big lineup being the problem, but it isn’t.  Or Schröder or Smart, but they aren’t really.  Sometimes other players get criticized too, but of the top 8, when it’s just them, we’re a good team.  Maybe not championship quality, but significantly better than .500.  A team that can maybe even win a series or two in the postseason.  The problem is we need more than 8 guys, and at least one of our 9-15 have been on the floor for the majority of minutes this year, and when they have been, things generally go south.  But if the top of the rotation can be available every night for a few weeks, or in the postseason, it’s a very different team.

There's foul trouble there are injuries... Someone else is going to have to be playable. I thought Romeo was playing really well yesterday and should've gone a lot longer in the 4th.

I’m with you on Romeo.  I want him to be the 9th man, but it’s a lot more up and down when he comes in with the top 8.  But as to injuries, the whole point is what this team is when it’s healthy.  That’s literally the thread title.

Re: Maybe the C's just need to be healthy?
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2022, 08:12:41 PM »

Offline radiohead

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Besides health, I think players’ discipline and coaching need to improve significantly. The need to chuck three after three after three needs to stop. We’re depending on the law of averages that our three point shooting will eventually be consistent. But the players’ 3pt percentages say otherwise. We’re getting open looks, but if our guys are poor 3 point shooters then it’s not really the best option. He players need to adjust. If the 3 ball isn’t falling, then take it inside.

Coaching also needs to improve, most specially Ime’s rotations. Romeo was playing so well last night but he barely played in the 4th.

Re: Maybe the C's just need to be healthy?
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2022, 08:34:29 PM »

Offline pokeKingCurtis

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I thought a not insignificant part of last season's struggles were due to COVID and general health troubles.

But clearly Brad and the whole Celtics brass felt like there were deeeper problems, and downplayed those.

I suppose they never want to openly make excuses for the guys, nor is it a good look generally for the fans.

I still think they go on a run soon. Generally just more time for Ime to coach, more rest, less travel and just more time to adjust (to the huge changes in the offseason from a roster and coaching standpoint). These are especially important for young players newly joining the NBA.