Author Topic: Tatum the next Lebron?  (Read 3164 times)

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Re: Tatum the next Lebron?
« Reply #30 on: March 03, 2023, 05:12:21 PM »

Offline Goldstar88

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Luka doesn’t play defense, Jokic isn’t very good on that end either. Giannis can’t shoot.

What weakness does Tatum have in his game?
Not gonna lie, I hate this argument. Let's compare Gordon Hayward to Shaquille O'Neal this way and see how productive that conversation is.

That’s a false equivalency, though. That’s comparing a one time All Star to an all time great.

That’s completely different different than comparing similar MVP-level players who are all in the same realm. I don’t see anything wrong with highlighting the fact that Tatum - and possibly Embiid, though health/conditioning could be his weakness - unlike the others has no discernible weak spot in his overall game. To me, that’s a highly relevant fact.

Of course, how much weight you put on that fact is variable. But I certainly think it’s a valid argument to put out and give credit to the fact that Tatum is the most well-rounded player of the bunch, even if others are better than him at individual skills.

Well said, Potter. TP.
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Re: Tatum the next Lebron?
« Reply #31 on: March 03, 2023, 06:44:38 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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Giannis is the next Lebron

But Tatum, Doncic, Jokic and Embiid could be the "Durant/Curry/Harden/Davis" category. Not Lebron, but the next tier of players in that "superstar/marketability" category.

I really do think though that in his peak/prime, Tatum is easily a Top-2 player in the league if you are looking at his overall game (including defense and decision-making). Might not be the best scorer, but honestly a guy like Doncic can score a ton but isn't really known for defense at all. Kind of like Harden in the past in his prime
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Re: Tatum the next Lebron?
« Reply #32 on: March 03, 2023, 07:47:33 PM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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Giannis is the next Lebron

But Tatum, Doncic, Jokic and Embiid could be the "Durant/Curry/Harden/Davis" category. Not Lebron, but the next tier of players in that "superstar/marketability" category.

I really do think though that in his peak/prime, Tatum is easily a Top-2 player in the league if you are looking at his overall game (including defense and decision-making). Might not be the best scorer, but honestly a guy like Doncic can score a ton but isn't really known for defense at all. Kind of like Harden in the past in his prime


 Giannis is such a freak. Hes more like a Shaq and Hakeem hybrid with the ball handling ability to get by as a wing.

 Tatum is the best true SF behing Lebron IMO

Re: Tatum the next Lebron?
« Reply #33 on: March 03, 2023, 09:20:48 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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I hope he isn't the next LeBron because LeBron has not won titles  as a player of his stature should have.  He is not mentally tough.

Re: Tatum the next Lebron?
« Reply #34 on: March 03, 2023, 10:24:54 PM »

Offline MarcusSmartFanClub

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I hope he isn't the next LeBron because LeBron has not won titles  as a player of his stature should have.  He is not mentally tough.

What are you talking about? He has 4 rings. That’s very good.

If Tatum wins 4 rings, I’d be ecstatic. I’d be pumped with one.

Re: Tatum the next Lebron?
« Reply #35 on: March 03, 2023, 10:30:50 PM »

Offline Goldstar88

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I hope he isn't the next LeBron because LeBron has not won titles  as a player of his stature should have.  He is not mentally tough.

What are you talking about? He has 4 rings. That’s very good.

If Tatum wins 4 rings, I’d be ecstatic. I’d be pumped with one.

I think he means that for a player who thinks he’s the greatest of all time, he should have more than 4 rings.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2023, 10:44:50 PM by Goldstar88 »
Quoting Nick from the now locked Ime thread:
Quote
At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.

Re: Tatum the next Lebron?
« Reply #36 on: March 03, 2023, 10:33:37 PM »

Offline scaryjerry

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Will he even finish historically better than Paul Pierce? Probably but who knows  :o

Re: Tatum the next Lebron?
« Reply #37 on: March 04, 2023, 12:46:47 AM »

Offline 0003323344

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I hope he isn't the next LeBron because LeBron has not won titles  as a player of his stature should have.  He is not mentally tough.

What are you talking about? He has 4 rings. That’s very good.

If Tatum wins 4 rings, I’d be ecstatic. I’d be pumped with one.

Seriously? He won four rings because he manufactured the teams he was going to play on. In Miami he made sure he had a big three with Bosh and Wade. Then he went back to Cleveland with Irving then to the Lakers with Davis.

Re: Tatum the next Lebron?
« Reply #38 on: March 04, 2023, 12:46:23 PM »

Offline Big333223

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Luka doesn’t play defense, Jokic isn’t very good on that end either. Giannis can’t shoot.

What weakness does Tatum have in his game?
Not gonna lie, I hate this argument. Let's compare Gordon Hayward to Shaquille O'Neal this way and see how productive that conversation is.

That’s a false equivalency, though. That’s comparing a one time All Star to an all time great.

That’s completely different different than comparing similar MVP-level players who are all in the same realm. I don’t see anything wrong with highlighting the fact that Tatum - and possibly Embiid, though health/conditioning could be his weakness - unlike the others has no discernible weak spot in his overall game. To me, that’s a highly relevant fact.

Of course, how much weight you put on that fact is variable. But I certainly think it’s a valid argument to put out and give credit to the fact that Tatum is the most well-rounded player of the bunch, even if others are better than him at individual skills.
It's not a false equivalency at all. It's doing the exact same thing. Saying one guy doesn't have any holes in his game so he's better than someone who does have a hole in his game is a terrible way of comparing players.

If you say Tatum is a more well rounded player than Luca or Giannis, you get no argument from me. If you say Tatum is a more well rounded player than Luca or giannis and so that means he's better than those two, that's a problem and it's a problem for exactly the same reason comparing Shaq to Hayward is a problem.
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Re: Tatum the next Lebron?
« Reply #39 on: March 04, 2023, 03:39:10 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Tatum is not the next Lebron but he is off to an excellent career start.  I'm very happy with his progress.


 I don't mean next lebron like they are the same Player.  I mean the next SF set to dominate the leauge for 10 years, which if we win this year. He will be.
I don't think Tatum is going to dominate the league.  He is behind at least 4 players that aren't yet 30 i.e. Giannis, Jokic, Embiid, and Doncic.  Now they aren't SF's, but the league has rarely been dominated by SF's (really just Lebron and Larry to a lesser extent).


 Tatum is the youngest out of all these players except Luka,  and Tatum is in by far the best situation team wise by far.
He also isn't as good as them (well maybe Embiid, but not the other 3).


 Giannis is better than Tatum,  that much is true. The rest of the Rankings are to be decided in the coming months.

 Jayson Tatum is likely to be the second best player in the world, this June. Stay tuned
Jokic is better than all of them

Offensively, yes/maybe.

But he’s also by far the worst defensively and can easily be taken advantage of defensively. I think people really underappreciate this weakness in his game, largely because I think it’s really most exposed in the playoffs when teams can gameplan for a single team better. I think he’ll really be exposed in the playoffs with the right matchup.

I’m much lower on Jokic than most, and biased against bigs like him and Embiid, as I don’t think you can win with them as your #1 in today’s NBA. So I take for sure both Giannis and Tatum over him, and probably Luka, too.
Offensively isn't a maybe, it's not even close.

You also gravely overrate his defensive "weakness", which is an invention of yours. His team's defences are frequently improved massively with him on the court.

Tatum over Jokic is probably the most homerish statement I've seen in months.
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PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
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Re: Tatum the next Lebron?
« Reply #40 on: March 04, 2023, 03:40:34 PM »

Offline gouki88

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I hope he isn't the next LeBron because LeBron has not won titles  as a player of his stature should have.  He is not mentally tough.

What are you talking about? He has 4 rings. That’s very good.

If Tatum wins 4 rings, I’d be ecstatic. I’d be pumped with one.

I think he means that for a player who thinks he’s the greatest of all time, he should have more than 4 rings.
Why? There is so much more than winning that goes into evaluating individual greatness.
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Tatum the next Lebron?
« Reply #41 on: March 06, 2023, 09:03:13 AM »

Offline Moranis

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I hope he isn't the next LeBron because LeBron has not won titles  as a player of his stature should have.  He is not mentally tough.

What are you talking about? He has 4 rings. That’s very good.

If Tatum wins 4 rings, I’d be ecstatic. I’d be pumped with one.

I think he means that for a player who thinks he’s the greatest of all time, he should have more than 4 rings.
Why? There is so much more than winning that goes into evaluating individual greatness.
Yeah its a weird argument.  Back in 2016 when ESPN did their top 100 players of all time their top 5 were in order Jordan, Kareem, Lebron, Magic, and Wilt.  The next 5 were Larry, Bill, Duncan, Shaq, and Hakeem.

Other than potentially Lebron moving higher, I doubt that list would change at this point (at some point perhaps Curry or Giannis will move into it, but I don't think they are there yet). 

The titles for those players are

6
6
4 (he had 2 at the time of the list)
5
2
3
11
5
4
2

So yeah, I don't think titles matter all that much in the grand scheme of these things.
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