Why did we extend Josh Richardson?

[Big333223]

I understand why we got him, I don't understand why we extended him at all

to trade him in the summer

And it is not like the Celtics are going to have cap room next summer either way.   

So the team bet on being able to get the best out of Richardson and extended him so he could be trade filler in the summer.   They extended the time they can use him for that purpose.

This.

Whatever you think of Richardson the player, having him on a deal they can use next summer was a smart play.

... unless they can't use it and he's dead weight.

In this case "dead weight" will be an expiring contract barely more than the midlevel exception for a terrific wing defender and streaky shooter.

I'm not sure where you're seeing the terrific defense, but that's far from the worst case reasonable scenario.  There's not much of a market for unproductive players in consistent decline, expiring or not.  And, the trade exception we have is much more valuable.  I'm not sure what type of trade people are expecting involving Richardson, but I think they're going to be disappointed.

I think everyone is expecting Richardson, if he is involved in a trade, to be salary filler for a larger deal. It might never come to pass, sure, but if the Celtics want to get a third star a contract like Richardson's will probably be a necessity.

And if the trade never happens then you've got a, yes, terrific defender on an expiring deal barely more than the midlevel.

[Goldstar88]

Now that Richardson and Smart are extended could either be used to retain Schroder in a sign and trade? He may be a better fit going forward with the J’s.

[Celtics2021]

Now that Richardson and Smart are extended could either be used to retain Schroder in a sign and trade? He may be a better fit going forward with the J’s.

How are we retaining Schröder by signing-and-trading him?

[Vermont Green]

Now that Richardson and Smart are extended could either be used to retain Schroder in a sign and trade? He may be a better fit going forward with the J’s.

How are we retaining Schröder by signing-and-trading him?

I think what he is suggesting is that Schroder becomes a UFA, signs with someone else, but then is traded back to us for Richardson or Smart.  For one, I think that would hard cap us and second there are probably other rules preventing this.

[Roy H.]

Now that Richardson and Smart are extended could either be used to retain Schroder in a sign and trade? He may be a better fit going forward with the J’s.

How are we retaining Schröder by signing-and-trading him?

I think what he is suggesting is that Schroder becomes a UFA, signs with someone else, but then is traded back to us for Richardson or Smart.  For one, I think that would hard cap us and second there are probably other rules preventing this.

It wouldn’t hard cap us, but such a trade couldn’t happen until December / January 15, and any agreement between the teams wouldn’t be binding.

[Vermont Green]

Now that Richardson and Smart are extended could either be used to retain Schroder in a sign and trade? He may be a better fit going forward with the J’s.

How are we retaining Schröder by signing-and-trading him?

I think what he is suggesting is that Schroder becomes a UFA, signs with someone else, but then is traded back to us for Richardson or Smart.  For one, I think that would hard cap us and second there are probably other rules preventing this.

It wouldn’t hard cap us, but such a trade couldn’t happen until December / January 15, and any agreement between the teams wouldn’t be binding.

Wouldn't this have to happen next off season, after Schroder becomes a UFA?

[Celtics2021]

Now that Richardson and Smart are extended could either be used to retain Schroder in a sign and trade? He may be a better fit going forward with the J’s.

How are we retaining Schröder by signing-and-trading him?

I think what he is suggesting is that Schroder becomes a UFA, signs with someone else, but then is traded back to us for Richardson or Smart.  For one, I think that would hard cap us and second there are probably other rules preventing this.

I’m not quite sure what he’s suggesting, to be frank, but here are the options for retaining Schröder:

TL;DR: Schröder on a 1+1 deal next summer is reasonably likely, although keeping him beyond next season probably means we need to shelve bigger plans.


1) Sign Schröder with the big MLE, which hard caps us.  This will start at around $10.5 million next year.  I think this would most likely be a 1+1 deal, which would a) give Schröder the choice of re-entering free agency if he has a good year, or not if he doesn’t/is hurt, b) gives the Celtics early Bird rights the following summer, enabling them to offer a deal in free agency that year which starts at around $18 million in year 1, and c) would give him trade veto rights.  In other words, they could make a pretty competitive offer at 1 year.

2) Sign Schröder to a 20% raise next year (so around $7 million), with the same 1+1 structure as above.  The difference here is that an Early Bird deal would start at around $12 million instead of $18 million, so it’s unlikely we’d be able to keep him after next year if he’s restored his value for a couple of seasons.  He’d have to either have a bad season/get hurt, or really love Boston such that he opted in, enabling the C’s to have full Bird rights after three years, which would let hem make an offer up to the max salary (not saying he’s a max player, but the C’s would have no effective limit as to what they could offer).


There look to be very few teams with cap room next summer, so I think either of these are pretty good possibilities.  However, option 1 will require either a trade that reduces salary and/or waiving Horford (but not necessarily stretching, thus allowing him to be resigned).  It would also preclude using the Fournier TPE, and also makes a major trade next summer less likely too, unless that trade somehow reduced salary.

[tstorey_97]

They weren't going to keep Fournier. He is not "their player type."

Richardson is a "defensive player". At 6'5" 200, He can switch onto pretty much anyone in a pinch.

He fights on defense, that is why they signed him.

"Financial management" is why they extended him.

They have a board in Steven's office and a spreadsheet on the computer that has the roster with salaries for the next 5 or 6 years. Richardson fit whatever the slot and there he is.

There is nothing to say this year, he has played 52 minutes, shooting at 40% or so and really isn't much career wise shooting at 36%. Obviously, he wasn't brought in for offense.

Langford and Nesmith and Pritchard are all above average shooters. Regrettably, they are all going to be dealing with the sophomore jinx this year, but, we'll see....maybe it won't be so bad.

Finally, we don't need Fournier as...

NBA 3PT%
Patty Mills - 64%
Jrue Holiday - 62.5%
Seth Curry - 61.9%
Grant Williams - 58.8%
Derrick Rose - 57.9% 

On down the list
Evan Fournier - 45.7%

Can Fournier switch onto a center? Grant can.
Can Fournier shoot 58.8% from three? Grant can.
Fournier makes $18M
Grant makes $2.2M

Not sure what my case is here, but I rest it.

[Goldstar88]

Now that Richardson and Smart are extended could either be used to retain Schroder in a sign and trade? He may be a better fit going forward with the J’s.

How are we retaining Schröder by signing-and-trading him?

I think what he is suggesting is that Schroder becomes a UFA, signs with someone else, but then is traded back to us for Richardson or Smart.  For one, I think that would hard cap us and second there are probably other rules preventing this.

It wouldn’t hard cap us, but such a trade couldn’t happen until December / January 15, and any agreement between the teams wouldn’t be binding.

Wouldn't this have to happen next off season, after Schroder becomes a UFA?

This is what I was referring to. Once he’s an UFA

[Goldstar88]

Now that Richardson and Smart are extended could either be used to retain Schroder in a sign and trade? He may be a better fit going forward with the J’s.

How are we retaining Schröder by signing-and-trading him?

I think what he is suggesting is that Schroder becomes a UFA, signs with someone else, but then is traded back to us for Richardson or Smart.  For one, I think that would hard cap us and second there are probably other rules preventing this.

I’m not quite sure what he’s suggesting, to be frank, but here are the options for retaining Schröder:

TL;DR: Schröder on a 1+1 deal next summer is reasonably likely, although keeping him beyond next season probably means we need to shelve bigger plans.


1) Sign Schröder with the big MLE, which hard caps us.  This will start at around $10.5 million next year.  I think this would most likely be a 1+1 deal, which would a) give Schröder the choice of re-entering free agency if he has a good year, or not if he doesn’t/is hurt, b) gives the Celtics early Bird rights the following summer, enabling them to offer a deal in free agency that year which starts at around $18 million in year 1, and c) would give him trade veto rights.  In other words, they could make a pretty competitive offer at 1 year.

2) Sign Schröder to a 20% raise next year (so around $7 million), with the same 1+1 structure as above.  The difference here is that an Early Bird deal would start at around $12 million instead of $18 million, so it’s unlikely we’d be able to keep him after next year if he’s restored his value for a couple of seasons.  He’d have to either have a bad season/get hurt, or really love Boston such that he opted in, enabling the C’s to have full Bird rights after three years, which would let hem make an offer up to the max salary (not saying he’s a max player, but the C’s would have no effective limit as to what they could offer).


There look to be very few teams with cap room next summer, so I think either of these are pretty good possibilities.  However, option 1 will require either a trade that reduces salary and/or waiving Horford (but not necessarily stretching, thus allowing him to be resigned).  It would also preclude using the Fournier TPE, and also makes a major trade next summer less likely too, unless that trade somehow reduced salary.

Once he’s an UFA at the end of the season. Thought that was obvious as he is currently under contract, but I guess should have been more specific.

[Celtics2021]

Now that Richardson and Smart are extended could either be used to retain Schroder in a sign and trade? He may be a better fit going forward with the J’s.

How are we retaining Schröder by signing-and-trading him?

I think what he is suggesting is that Schroder becomes a UFA, signs with someone else, but then is traded back to us for Richardson or Smart.  For one, I think that would hard cap us and second there are probably other rules preventing this.

I’m not quite sure what he’s suggesting, to be frank, but here are the options for retaining Schröder:

TL;DR: Schröder on a 1+1 deal next summer is reasonably likely, although keeping him beyond next season probably means we need to shelve bigger plans.


1) Sign Schröder with the big MLE, which hard caps us.  This will start at around $10.5 million next year.  I think this would most likely be a 1+1 deal, which would a) give Schröder the choice of re-entering free agency if he has a good year, or not if he doesn’t/is hurt, b) gives the Celtics early Bird rights the following summer, enabling them to offer a deal in free agency that year which starts at around $18 million in year 1, and c) would give him trade veto rights.  In other words, they could make a pretty competitive offer at 1 year.

2) Sign Schröder to a 20% raise next year (so around $7 million), with the same 1+1 structure as above.  The difference here is that an Early Bird deal would start at around $12 million instead of $18 million, so it’s unlikely we’d be able to keep him after next year if he’s restored his value for a couple of seasons.  He’d have to either have a bad season/get hurt, or really love Boston such that he opted in, enabling the C’s to have full Bird rights after three years, which would let hem make an offer up to the max salary (not saying he’s a max player, but the C’s would have no effective limit as to what they could offer).


There look to be very few teams with cap room next summer, so I think either of these are pretty good possibilities.  However, option 1 will require either a trade that reduces salary and/or waiving Horford (but not necessarily stretching, thus allowing him to be resigned).  It would also preclude using the Fournier TPE, and also makes a major trade next summer less likely too, unless that trade somehow reduced salary.

Once he’s an UFA at the end of the season. Thought that was obvious as he is currently under contract, but I guess should have been more specific.

I’m still unclear tho.  How are we supposed to sign-and-trade Schröder but keep him at the same time?

[Goldstar88]

Now that Richardson and Smart are extended could either be used to retain Schroder in a sign and trade? He may be a better fit going forward with the J’s.

How are we retaining Schröder by signing-and-trading him?

I think what he is suggesting is that Schroder becomes a UFA, signs with someone else, but then is traded back to us for Richardson or Smart.  For one, I think that would hard cap us and second there are probably other rules preventing this.

I’m not quite sure what he’s suggesting, to be frank, but here are the options for retaining Schröder:

TL;DR: Schröder on a 1+1 deal next summer is reasonably likely, although keeping him beyond next season probably means we need to shelve bigger plans.


1) Sign Schröder with the big MLE, which hard caps us.  This will start at around $10.5 million next year.  I think this would most likely be a 1+1 deal, which would a) give Schröder the choice of re-entering free agency if he has a good year, or not if he doesn’t/is hurt, b) gives the Celtics early Bird rights the following summer, enabling them to offer a deal in free agency that year which starts at around $18 million in year 1, and c) would give him trade veto rights.  In other words, they could make a pretty competitive offer at 1 year.

2) Sign Schröder to a 20% raise next year (so around $7 million), with the same 1+1 structure as above.  The difference here is that an Early Bird deal would start at around $12 million instead of $18 million, so it’s unlikely we’d be able to keep him after next year if he’s restored his value for a couple of seasons.  He’d have to either have a bad season/get hurt, or really love Boston such that he opted in, enabling the C’s to have full Bird rights after three years, which would let hem make an offer up to the max salary (not saying he’s a max player, but the C’s would have no effective limit as to what they could offer).


There look to be very few teams with cap room next summer, so I think either of these are pretty good possibilities.  However, option 1 will require either a trade that reduces salary and/or waiving Horford (but not necessarily stretching, thus allowing him to be resigned).  It would also preclude using the Fournier TPE, and also makes a major trade next summer less likely too, unless that trade somehow reduced salary.

Once he’s an UFA at the end of the season. Thought that was obvious as he is currently under contract, but I guess should have been more specific.

I’m still unclear tho.  How are we supposed to sign-and-trade Schröder but keep him at the same time?

He would sign with another team after this season concludes and be traded to the C’s for say Smart or Richardson and Grant. A sign and trade.

[Celtics2021]

Now that Richardson and Smart are extended could either be used to retain Schroder in a sign and trade? He may be a better fit going forward with the J’s.

How are we retaining Schröder by signing-and-trading him?

I think what he is suggesting is that Schroder becomes a UFA, signs with someone else, but then is traded back to us for Richardson or Smart.  For one, I think that would hard cap us and second there are probably other rules preventing this.

I’m not quite sure what he’s suggesting, to be frank, but here are the options for retaining Schröder:

TL;DR: Schröder on a 1+1 deal next summer is reasonably likely, although keeping him beyond next season probably means we need to shelve bigger plans.


1) Sign Schröder with the big MLE, which hard caps us.  This will start at around $10.5 million next year.  I think this would most likely be a 1+1 deal, which would a) give Schröder the choice of re-entering free agency if he has a good year, or not if he doesn’t/is hurt, b) gives the Celtics early Bird rights the following summer, enabling them to offer a deal in free agency that year which starts at around $18 million in year 1, and c) would give him trade veto rights.  In other words, they could make a pretty competitive offer at 1 year.

2) Sign Schröder to a 20% raise next year (so around $7 million), with the same 1+1 structure as above.  The difference here is that an Early Bird deal would start at around $12 million instead of $18 million, so it’s unlikely we’d be able to keep him after next year if he’s restored his value for a couple of seasons.  He’d have to either have a bad season/get hurt, or really love Boston such that he opted in, enabling the C’s to have full Bird rights after three years, which would let hem make an offer up to the max salary (not saying he’s a max player, but the C’s would have no effective limit as to what they could offer).


There look to be very few teams with cap room next summer, so I think either of these are pretty good possibilities.  However, option 1 will require either a trade that reduces salary and/or waiving Horford (but not necessarily stretching, thus allowing him to be resigned).  It would also preclude using the Fournier TPE, and also makes a major trade next summer less likely too, unless that trade somehow reduced salary.

Once he’s an UFA at the end of the season. Thought that was obvious as he is currently under contract, but I guess should have been more specific.

I’m still unclear tho.  How are we supposed to sign-and-trade Schröder but keep him at the same time?

He would sign with another team after this season concludes and be traded to the C’s for say Smart or Richardson and Grant. A sign and trade.

Okay.  That’s not how sign-and-trades work — you can sign your own free agent with some sort of Bird rights and immediately trade him to another team, but you can’t sign another teams’ free agent with cap space or an exception and trade him back to the original team (or any other team).  Schröder wouldn’t be eligible to be traded until December 15th after the contract is signed, and his returning to the Celtics would invite league scrutiny, because agreeing to such a deal in advance would be a circumvention of the salary cap.

The two scenarios I described are the only two in which we keep Schröder (short of shedding about $50 million in salary to create cap room).

[Hoopvortex]

Now that Richardson and Smart are extended could either be used to retain Schroder in a sign and trade? He may be a better fit going forward with the J’s.

How are we retaining Schröder by signing-and-trading him?

I think what he is suggesting is that Schroder becomes a UFA, signs with someone else, but then is traded back to us for Richardson or Smart.  For one, I think that would hard cap us and second there are probably other rules preventing this.

As far as fit goes, Ime seems to think that Smart, Schröder, and The Two Jays (tm) fit together fine. I have to agree. Add Horford or, increasingly, TL, and that’s both a great play-making unit AND a great defensive unit.

As far as Richardson’s extension is concerned, his contract will be ending as Romie and Nessie start to enter their maturity.

[Roy H.]

Ime seems to think that Smart, Schröder, and The Two Jays (tm) fit together fine.

Who else is he going to play, particularly with Romeo out?