Just throwing away another season seems foolish.

[liam]

There is a looming problem with this strategy. The team comes out smoking and plays very well. Tatum has a breakout year and Brown does the same. They have a deep run in playoffs only to fall short. The Jays are frustrated because management did not believe in them. Other scenario is team plays poorly, and Jays are frustrated because management did not give them enough support.

We've already done both of these things in years past.

[Muzzy66]

There is/was no path to contention this season, nor any FAs who could have joined this team and been a title team in a few years. But there is a path to clearing space to add a player of that caliber (or multiple lesser players, or trades) for next year. Why is this so hard to understand? Do y’all want a banner or to be… 5 wins better than last season? Which - btw - could still happen with a new coach, better defenders. Every smart team does this, including the Celtics in the past. Clear the books of well-paid mediocrity so you can make a splash when it counts.

I'm not actually sure I agree. 

Looking at the East right now, IMHO, it is wide open.  The only team that's truly stacked is the Nets, and they have more then their share of issues to keep them grounded. 

1. As you said, we have a new coach who is more defensive minded and who is likely to more of a disciplinarian then Stevens was.  On top of that (as you implied) we should be better defensively with the addition of Richarson and Horford.   

2. With how big a leap they took this year, who knows how good Brown and Tatum will be in the coming season.  The potential for Tatum to average 28-30 PPG and be a top 5 scorer is not at all out of the realm of possibliity.  Totally reasonable to predict Brown also averaging 25 PPG for the season.  Both likely also mature and improve as leaders, which naturally hapens with age and experience.  Adding Smart, Richardson and Horford/Timelord to those guys in the starting 5 actually makes an extremely strong lineup that could hang with any starting 5 in the league. 

3. Fournier averaged 13 PPG in 29 MPG for us last season and shot 46% from three.  As a 6th man he could likely put up similar minutes in the 28 MPG range - if we had him giving us a consistent 12-13 PPG off the bench on 42%-44% 3PT shooting that would be an absolute game changer for our second unit, which was utterly incapable of scorign with any consistency last season.  TT also could have been retained, leaving us with a second unit of Pritchard, Fournier, Nesmith, TT and Horford/Timelord (whichever doesn't start).  That's one of the stronger second units in the league IMHO which again, would be a complete game changer compared to the woefully thin second unit we had last season

On top of all that we could have also used the MLE (whatever version of it we had available) and vet min / TPE  options to add a couple of servicable veterans (maybe a combo guard or wing as insurance in case Pritchard / Nesmith don't take the step we expect). 

You may not think so, but I think that team I just described, with the right coaching and motivation, could hang with any team in the East.  Possibly even any team in the league.  I'm not convinced that the team I just decribed couldn't compete with the Phoenix Suns or Mulwaukee Bucks, who were just in the NBA finals. And the added depth would make the team far more capable of dealing with any games that may be missed due to injuries or Covid protocols. 

At this time in particular with all the Covid stuff going on, I think depth is more important then it's maybe ever been.

[radiohead]

With the offseason unusually so quiet, is there actually a chance that a S&T for Beal is in the works? I mean it’s a lot safer for Washington to do it now while Beal is healthy.

[liam]

Any of these guys would make us better:

1. Kawhi Leonard (age 30) » UFA
5. John Collins (age 23) » RFA
10. Spencer Dinwiddie (age 28) » UFA
15. Kelly Oubre Jr. (age 25) » UFA
17. Dennis Schroder (age 27) » UFA
21. Danny Green (age 34) » UFA
22. Lauri Markkanen (age 24) » RFA
28. Reggie Jackson (age 31) » UFA
32. Victor Oladipo (age 29) » UFA
37. Josh Hart (age 26) » RFA
39. Andre Iguodala (age 37) » UFA
43. Justise Winslow (age 25) » UFA
51. JJ Redick (age 37) » UFA
53. Terence Davis (age 24) » RFA
56. Denzel Valentine (age 27) » UFA
57. Wesley Matthews (age 34) » UFA
65. Paul Millsap (age 36) » UFA
67. Khem Birch (age 28) » UFA
70. Hamidou Diallo (age 23) » RFA
71. DeMarcus Cousins (age 30) » UFA

[Muzzy66]

Any of these guys would make us better:

1. Kawhi Leonard (age 30) » UFA
15. Kelly Oubre Jr. (age 25) » UFA
17. Dennis Schroder (age 27) » UFA
21. Danny Green (age 34) » UFA
22. Lauri Markkanen (age 24) » RFA
28. Reggie Jackson (age 31) » UFA
32. Victor Oladipo (age 29) » UFA
37. Josh Hart (age 26) » RFA
39. Andre Iguodala (age 37) » UFA
43. Justise Winslow (age 25) » UFA
51. JJ Redick (age 37) » UFA
53. Terence Davis (age 24) » RFA
56. Denzel Valentine (age 27) » UFA
57. Wesley Matthews (age 34) » UFA
65. Paul Millsap (age 36) » UFA
67. Khem Birch (age 28) » UFA
70. Hamidou Diallo (age 23) » RFA
71. DeMarcus Cousins (age 30) » UFA

5. John Collins (age 23) » RFA Apparently offerd 4/$125M by Hawks
10. Spencer Dinwiddie (age 28) » UFA going to washingwon

I do agree that a number of those other guys would be valuable...but dont have much confidence in us going after them given that the team is apparently obsessed with not spending money. 

[wiley]

Any of these guys would make us better:

1. Kawhi Leonard (age 30) » UFA
5. John Collins (age 23) » RFA
10. Spencer Dinwiddie (age 28) » UFA
15. Kelly Oubre Jr. (age 25) » UFA
17. Dennis Schroder (age 27) » UFA
21. Danny Green (age 34) » UFA
22. Lauri Markkanen (age 24) » RFA
28. Reggie Jackson (age 31) » UFA
32. Victor Oladipo (age 29) » UFA
37. Josh Hart (age 26) » RFA
39. Andre Iguodala (age 37) » UFA
43. Justise Winslow (age 25) » UFA
51. JJ Redick (age 37) » UFA
53. Terence Davis (age 24) » RFA
56. Denzel Valentine (age 27) » UFA
57. Wesley Matthews (age 34) » UFA
65. Paul Millsap (age 36) » UFA
67. Khem Birch (age 28) » UFA
70. Hamidou Diallo (age 23) » RFA
71. DeMarcus Cousins (age 30) » UFA

Reunite Millsap and Horford!!!!   Play Reunited over the Garden Loudpseakers!  Title!!

[nickagneta]

I'm inclined to agree -- any year in which you have multiple All-NBA type talents on your roster is a year in which you should be trying to put the best team out there that you can.

However, I think a few things are true:

1. Ownership was simply not willing to pay luxury tax to prop up a group that just got beaten soundly in the first round

2. Due to the sins / mistakes / bad luck of the past few years, it was not possible to keep open the option of making a big splash next summer and still commit money this summer to improve / fortify the current team.

3. The Celtics have decided that Plan A is to go after a max player next summer.  The only max player that really makes sense for that is Beal.  The Celtics want Beal.  I expect them to make a push to trade for him mid-season this year, but if that doesn't work, they will clear max space and try to sign him next summer.

All of which results in

4. If the Celts don't acquire Beal by next summer, regardless of what happens this year, things are going to get really dark around here.

What if the Celtics just wrote off 2008 off as a bridge year because these super teams usually take a year to gel? They didn't put players around the big three and figured they'd win down the line....

Don't know if you remember or not liam, but Ainge was widely criticized, most famously by Bob Ryan, before that 2007-08 season began for not putting enough talent around the Big 3. Their bench, massively inexperienced starting PG and young and ineffective starting center were going to be major problems, according to those critics. Ainge didn't do enough to put the players around the Big 3 to win it all, according to some.

Then the team went 29-3.

If that summer was this summer, a lot of fans might say management was wasting a year of the Big 3.

Sometimes, you just gotta let things play out. It can be frustrating, even moreso for the inpatient. But let's see where things go. Maybe both Jays have another jump in their games and they are so good, even the group around them is enough. Maybe those inexperienced young players will give the Jays what the inexperienced Rondo, Powe, Big Baby, Perk and Tony Allen gave that 2008 team.

Anything is possible

[liam]

I'm inclined to agree -- any year in which you have multiple All-NBA type talents on your roster is a year in which you should be trying to put the best team out there that you can.

However, I think a few things are true:

1. Ownership was simply not willing to pay luxury tax to prop up a group that just got beaten soundly in the first round

2. Due to the sins / mistakes / bad luck of the past few years, it was not possible to keep open the option of making a big splash next summer and still commit money this summer to improve / fortify the current team.

3. The Celtics have decided that Plan A is to go after a max player next summer.  The only max player that really makes sense for that is Beal.  The Celtics want Beal.  I expect them to make a push to trade for him mid-season this year, but if that doesn't work, they will clear max space and try to sign him next summer.

All of which results in

4. If the Celts don't acquire Beal by next summer, regardless of what happens this year, things are going to get really dark around here.

What if the Celtics just wrote off 2008 off as a bridge year because these super teams usually take a year to gel? They didn't put players around the big three and figured they'd win down the line....

Don't know if you remember or not liam, but Ainge was widely criticized, most famously by Bob Ryan, before that 2007-08 season began for not putting enough talent around the Big 3. Their bench, massively inexperienced starting PG and young and ineffective starting center were going to be major problems, according to those critics. Ainge didn't do enough to put the players around the Big 3 to win it all, according to some.

Then the team went 29-3.

If that summer was this summer, a lot of fans might say management was wasting a year of the Big 3.

Sometimes, you just gotta let things play out. It can be frustrating, even moreso for the inpatient. But let's see where things go. Maybe both Jays have another jump in their games and they are so good, even the group around them is enough. Maybe those inexperienced young players will give the Jays what the inexperienced Rondo, Powe, Big Baby, Perk and Tony Allen gave that 2008 team.

Anything is possible

We also needed PJ Brown, Sam Cassell, Brian Scalabrine, James Posey and Eddie House.

You are right anything is possible!

[nickagneta]

I'm inclined to agree -- any year in which you have multiple All-NBA type talents on your roster is a year in which you should be trying to put the best team out there that you can.

However, I think a few things are true:

1. Ownership was simply not willing to pay luxury tax to prop up a group that just got beaten soundly in the first round

2. Due to the sins / mistakes / bad luck of the past few years, it was not possible to keep open the option of making a big splash next summer and still commit money this summer to improve / fortify the current team.

3. The Celtics have decided that Plan A is to go after a max player next summer.  The only max player that really makes sense for that is Beal.  The Celtics want Beal.  I expect them to make a push to trade for him mid-season this year, but if that doesn't work, they will clear max space and try to sign him next summer.

All of which results in

4. If the Celts don't acquire Beal by next summer, regardless of what happens this year, things are going to get really dark around here.

What if the Celtics just wrote off 2008 off as a bridge year because these super teams usually take a year to gel? They didn't put players around the big three and figured they'd win down the line....

Don't know if you remember or not liam, but Ainge was widely criticized, most famously by Bob Ryan, before that 2007-08 season began for not putting enough talent around the Big 3. Their bench, massively inexperienced starting PG and young and ineffective starting center were going to be major problems, according to those critics. Ainge didn't do enough to put the players around the Big 3 to win it all, according to some.

Then the team went 29-3.

If that summer was this summer, a lot of fans might say management was wasting a year of the Big 3.

Sometimes, you just gotta let things play out. It can be frustrating, even moreso for the inpatient. But let's see where things go. Maybe both Jays have another jump in their games and they are so good, even the group around them is enough. Maybe those inexperienced young players will give the Jays what the inexperienced Rondo, Powe, Big Baby, Perk and Tony Allen gave that 2008 team.

Anything is possible

We also needed PJ Brown, Sam Cassell, Brian Scalabrine, James Posey and Eddie House.

You are right anything is possible!

PJ Brown and Sam Cassell weren't on the team when those critics were chirping. They also weren't on the team when the critics stopped chirping, when after 32 games, they were 29-3. Cassell and Brown came later.

I think Horford, Richardson and Parker are every bit as good if not better than House, Posey and Scal.

What I am trying to convey is, even after the good vibes that the trades that brought the Big 3 together created around the team(though there were lots that panned those trades), many criticized the surrounding crew but by year's end, it was that surrounding crew that was doubted that were so important and winning that title

No, The Jays aren't the Big Three. But they could become amazing superstars if their games jump another level and if the young guys can develop, those vets blend well and Brad can add a piece or two by the deadline, this team could be a whole lot better than most here currently feel they are.

The season starts in about 12 weeks. Let's see where the team is after 20-25 games. The sky may have fallen by then, but I have a funny feeling this team is going to be a lot better than most think.

[seancally]

Can you imagine the fallout next season, if we’d committed money to Fournier and whoever else (spending just to prove you’re not cheap, as some folks here seem to prefer)… finished middle-of-the-pack in the East, as would be likely… and then didn’t have enough space to pursue Beal next offseason when he opts out? Or any other big-name FA targets? I mean seriously — “oh sorry, we decided to extend Smart and pay Fournier for 4 years, so…”

That would be unacceptable. Gotta give yourself a chance at the star players, that’s how you win in the NBA.

When this team had IT and Horford, before the Kyrie trade and before we all learned IT was cooked, they cleared space and threw Hayward the max. Forget about his injury, that was a fluke - paying him was the right move. When you’re a playoff team and can add a max FA? That’s huge! This team is already better than that, as we have 2 borderline all-NBA players, and can STILL try to add a max FA next season. I mean that’s an incredible opportunity. Don’t squander it this season when you don’t have any clear paths to contention.

[gouki88]

Can you imagine the fallout next season, if we’d committed money to Fournier and whoever else (spending just to prove you’re not cheap, as some folks here seem to prefer)… finished middle-of-the-pack in the East, as would be likely… and then didn’t have enough space to pursue Beal next offseason when he opts out? Or any other big-name FA targets? I mean seriously — “oh sorry, we decided to extend Smart and pay Fournier for 4 years, so…”

That would be unacceptable. Gotta give yourself a chance at the star players, that’s how you win in the NBA.

When this team had IT and Horford, before the Kyrie trade and before we all learned IT was cooked, they cleared space and threw Hayward the max. Forget about his injury, that was a fluke - paying him was the right move. When you’re a playoff team and can add a max FA? That’s huge! This team is already better than that, as we have 2 borderline all-NBA players, and can STILL try to add a max FA next season. I mean that’s an incredible opportunity. Don’t squander it this season when you don’t have any clear paths to contention.

Teams literally always have the ability to move good players on fairly reasonable contracts. Not sure why we would be unable

[boscel33]

I don't see it as a throw away season.  Tatum is 23 and Brown is 24.  They were first time All-Stars last year.  With Smart, Brown, Tatum, Horford, and RWill as a starting five, that's a dam good lineup.  Now is when some ifs come in.  If Romeo can stay healthy and if Nesmith can take a second year leap and if PP doesn't have a sophomore slump, then we're eight deep without batting an eye.

Health is key and we didn't have it last year.  Let's see what this year brings, I say 3-4 seed at worse.  Maybe it's the green colored glasses I'm looking through.....

I do want to caution on punting a year for "the free agent", didn't work with KD so you need to be cautious.  Next year is loaded, everyone has their eyes on Beal, but there are other very good players. 

[Rikibellevie]

Can you imagine the fallout next season, if we’d committed money to Fournier and whoever else (spending just to prove you’re not cheap, as some folks here seem to prefer)… finished middle-of-the-pack in the East, as would be likely… and then didn’t have enough space to pursue Beal next offseason when he opts out? Or any other big-name FA targets? I mean seriously — “oh sorry, we decided to extend Smart and pay Fournier for 4 years, so…”

That would be unacceptable. Gotta give yourself a chance at the star players, that’s how you win in the NBA.

When this team had IT and Horford, before the Kyrie trade and before we all learned IT was cooked, they cleared space and threw Hayward the max. Forget about his injury, that was a fluke - paying him was the right move. When you’re a playoff team and can add a max FA? That’s huge! This team is already better than that, as we have 2 borderline all-NBA players, and can STILL try to add a max FA next season. I mean that’s an incredible opportunity. Don’t squander it this season when you don’t have any clear paths to contention.

TP (virtual cause I don't know how to give it). Even if I don't buy everything on PBS strategy, I think he wants a team which fight hard, giving a culture of grit and some expérience and competition for youth, before signing Beal. Some are stressed about a Beal non signing but I think it is almost already done.

[Surferdad]

I don't see it as a throw away season.  Tatum is 23 and Brown is 24.  They were first time All-Stars last year.  With Smart, Brown, Tatum, Horford, and RWill as a starting five, that's a dam good lineup.  Now is when some ifs come in.  If Romeo can stay healthy and if Nesmith can take a second year leap and if PP doesn't have a sophomore slump, then we're eight deep without batting an eye.

Health is key and we didn't have it last year.  Let's see what this year brings, I say 3-4 seed at worse.  Maybe it's the green colored glasses I'm looking through.....

I do want to caution on punting a year for "the free agent", didn't work with KD so you need to be cautious.  Next year is loaded, everyone has their eyes on Beal, but there are other very good players.

Yes eight-deep, but with Dunn and Richardson, not Romeo and Langford, who haven't proven anything yet (especially Romeo).

[PAOBoston]

I don't see it as a throw away season.  Tatum is 23 and Brown is 24.  They were first time All-Stars last year.  With Smart, Brown, Tatum, Horford, and RWill as a starting five, that's a dam good lineup.  Now is when some ifs come in.  If Romeo can stay healthy and if Nesmith can take a second year leap and if PP doesn't have a sophomore slump, then we're eight deep without batting an eye.

Health is key and we didn't have it last year.  Let's see what this year brings, I say 3-4 seed at worse.  Maybe it's the green colored glasses I'm looking through.....

I do want to caution on punting a year for "the free agent", didn't work with KD so you need to be cautious.  Next year is loaded, everyone has their eyes on Beal, but there are other very good players.

I hate to break this to you but the Cs will never be healthy because they have players that are prone to miss time. I’d wager that Smart/JB/Timelord are all sure bets to miss some time due to injuries this season because they always have. Factor in Horford ha to be managed and the Cs will have people on and out of the lineup similar to prior years. The difference is the prior years they had more high end depth to cover the absences. They don’t have that luxury this year. Unless Nesmith becomes the next Ray Allen, I have a tough time seeing this team score and have consistent bench production.