Josh Richardson Vs Evan Fournier

[Who]

If you asked me a year ago or two years ago, I would have taken Josh Richardson over Evan Fournier.

However, Richardson's difficulties in Dallas really bother me. A year after some issues with his shot in Philly. A year after issues with his shot in Miami which were presumed to be because he was given a larger role and doing more ball-handling resulting in more difficult three point shot attempts. And Philly you know, the spacing was terrible that season and Richardson to me was the most consistent all-round player after Embiid so I gave Richardson a bit of a pass on his outside shooting.

But now he struggles again in Dallas? 3 years in a row. And in a fairly ideal spot in Dallas where he can be either the second ball-handler next to Luka or the primary creator when Luka rests.

That early in his career 38% three point shooting looks a long way off now. The last three years down to 34.5% and it has declined each year for 4 straight seasons.

I would have taken Richardson over Fournier in the past because Richardson is a legit defensive player. Both players can handle, pass, score and I thought shoot.

The decline in Richardson's shooting is particularly painful because he does not get to the foul line (typical for a new Celtics player these days) so his scoring efficiency goes down the drain.

If he can shoot the 3 at 37% or so, Josh Richardson is a good replacement for Fournier. If Richardson is only shooting it at 34% or so, he is an inadequate replacement.

[BoulderMike]

Two different questions ... two different answers:

Who is the better player?  I think the market just answered that.
One received a 4 year $78 M contract
One opted in for an $11 M contract because he knew the market for his services was less than $11 M a year


Who is better for us in 2021-2022?
One is on a 1 year deal at half the cost (and motivated for a strong year to get his next contract), yielding some upside, in year and next summer flexibility
One would have necessitated a $20 million per year deal for the next four years, hampering in year and next summer flexibility

[Who]

Fournier is better, clearly.  We could have easily had both though.

Yup. We could've had a pretty good team with both. Added another good bench player with the MLE. Some solid vets on minimum contracts. That is a 55 win ball club.

[tstorey_97]

Thanks for the thread WHO...
BTW, I agree Fournier is a far better scorer and, at this time, is playing far better than Richardson.

Just thought I'd add the stats from Nesmith's last 12 regular season games as Nesmith is the "winger who is still on the team." He is a raw rookie who got few minutes from Stevens, but, I suggest his arc should outdo Fournier's over the next couple of years....we'll see.

These stats aren't much, but, Jaylen Brown wasn't much his rookie year either

Nesmith

Games last 12 of the season assorted crummy games(215 minutes)
MPG 19.25
FG 52.1%
PPG 8.6
3PT 44% (15 for 34)
FT 11 for 12
RPG 4.25
TO 5 in 12 games
AST 10

Brown's first year (obviously, he played a lot more-below entire season)

Games 78 (1341 minutes)
MPG 17.25
FG 45.4%
PPG 6.6
3PT 34% (46 for 135)
FT 68.5% (85 for 124)
RPG 2.8
TO .9 (total of 68)
AST .8 (total of 64)

Brown was rough early and got better as did Nesmith.

My point with this pile o'stats is perhaps, Celtics think they've got the winger Fournier might have been at $3.6M.

I said "maybe in a couple of years."


 

[Muzzy66]

IMHO Fournier is quite a bit better, especially for this team.  However as somebody mentioned, we could have had both.

When Gordon Hayward walked it killed the Celtics.  They clearly missed him last year.  The team pretty much admitted as much, which is a big reason why they traded for Fournier to begin with.

Now they had Fournier in the palm of their hands and had the complete ability to bring him back, and they refused to do it because the cheap ownership didn't want to pay luxury tax.

So after a total Trainwreck of a season we now seem to be in ripe position to see more of the same for another 12 months.  In fact our roster as it's currently constructed probably looks WORSE then last year's.  It's heartbreaking to say that the way the team is currently constructed, I'm not sure they even make the playoffs.

Starrtng to make me very seriously question if I should even bother spending my time and money supporting the team when the ownership can't even be bothered spending their own money to put their best product on the floor.  My patience is wearing very thin.  Especially after having to sit through two seasons of non-stop political messaging and SJW virtue signalling. 

[Tr1boy]

Fournier is a better, more versatile scorer. Richardson is a better defender and, maybe especially important to this team, he can give a team backbone. When we played the Sixers, he was a pest - gave that team more fight than it usually does when he was in. If we want edge and experience, he brings it.

Fournier is streaky, better but streaky shooter and mediocre defender

Richardson is a much better defender. And better shot creator

How is he a better shot creator?

Josh Richardson 34 pts 6 threes 6 asts vs Blazers 19/20 season
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ATR4dtTkhM

Fournier is nowhere near as good 1 on 1 shot creator.  Relies on picks/screens. 

He is also not as athletic/explosive as Richardson. 

[Tr1boy]

IMHO Fournier is quite a bit better, especially for this team. 

tbh not sure how Fournier defense gets a "pass"

he is a mediocre to below average defender.   His good height helps for some things... but he can barely stay in front of his man. Blocks no shots. Mediocre rebounder

Brad/Udoka love their defense.   Richardson will be a better fit imo

[gouki88]

Fournier has the more valuable skills for 2021 - better shooter by a long shot, better scorer in general. Richardson is a better defender and athlete.

We should have both