Author Topic: Celtics Depth Chart 2021-2022 season  (Read 16974 times)

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Re: Celtics Depth Chart 2021-2022 season
« Reply #195 on: August 29, 2021, 04:52:27 AM »

Offline Csfan1984

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A basketball writer named Goodman thinks the Celtics are way worse off this year than than last and Brad has mucked it all up badly .  Not a very hopeful analysis to be sure .

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/video/jeff-goodman-grades-celtics-offseason-c-team-worse-right-now

Horford, Richardson, Schröder>Kemba, Fournier, Thompson.
I feel it's a offense league so give me Kemba, Fournier, and TT + pick 16.
I don't know that is such an offensive league that you can sacrifice defence so much.

Also, I don't think paying your 3rd and 4th options that much money would be wise, given they don't complement our stars an excessive amount.
Fournier does plenty. And Kemba was a fit till the knee got worse. He was drawing fouls and charge calls before the problems. Kemba got better but the times off hurt chemistry. He could be better with an off season and also expires same time Al does. If he shows that then he would be a good fit.

Re: Celtics Depth Chart 2021-2022 season
« Reply #196 on: August 29, 2021, 04:59:58 AM »

Offline gouki88

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A basketball writer named Goodman thinks the Celtics are way worse off this year than than last and Brad has mucked it all up badly .  Not a very hopeful analysis to be sure .

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/video/jeff-goodman-grades-celtics-offseason-c-team-worse-right-now

Horford, Richardson, Schröder>Kemba, Fournier, Thompson.
I feel it's a offense league so give me Kemba, Fournier, and TT + pick 16.
I don't know that is such an offensive league that you can sacrifice defence so much.

Also, I don't think paying your 3rd and 4th options that much money would be wise, given they don't complement our stars an excessive amount.
Fournier does plenty. And Kemba was a fit till the knee got worse. He was drawing fouls and charge calls before the problems. Kemba got better but the times off hurt chemistry. He could be better with an off season and also expires same time Al does. If he shows that then he would be a good fit.
Not really. Fournier is a really good scorer and shooter. Below average at everything else.

Yeah, Kemba was awesome before his injury. But he wasn't recovering from that injury. He'd already had an off-season to recover. Kemba's final year is also fully guaranteed, unlike Al's.
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PG: Trae Young / Jamal Murray / Jordan Clarkson
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PF: Harrison Barnes / Aaron Gordon
C: Joel Embiid / John Collins / Mason Plumlee

Re: Celtics Depth Chart 2021-2022 season
« Reply #197 on: August 29, 2021, 10:11:11 AM »

Online Vermont Green

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A basketball writer named Goodman thinks the Celtics are way worse off this year than than last and Brad has mucked it all up badly .  Not a very hopeful analysis to be sure .

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/video/jeff-goodman-grades-celtics-offseason-c-team-worse-right-now

Horford, Richardson, Schröder>Kemba, Fournier, Thompson.

This is an interesting way to look at it.  These 3 swaps are the key ones but still of some impact is:

Out:  Kornet, Ojeleye
In:    Kanter, Dunn, Fernando

Fernando has been statistically equivalent to Ojeleye for their careers, Kanter is better than Kornet, and Dunn may or may not make the team but these back ends swaps do probably improve the team a little.

As to the main guys originally noted:

Horford replaces Thompson (an upgrade)
Schroder replaces Walker (debatable, I score a wash)
Richardson replaces Fournier (also debatable)

So to me, we have one decent upgrade and two probably net washes.  You have to look at it in terms of the actual production that the player provided the team last season, not what was the expectation if they weren't injured or weren't traded or whatever.  Schroder may help us win more games next season than Walker did last season because Walker only played 43 games (Schroder 61).  Walker scored more points (per game) but Schroder may do other things the team needs, and do it in more games.

As to Richardson vs. Fournier, even if you think Fournier is a better player, that isn't the question.  The question is to compare what Fournier gave the team last season vs. what you expect Richardson to give the team this season.  Fournier gave the Celtics 13 pts, 3 rebs, 3 Asst in 29 min in 16 games.  He did not impact the team so you can't look at that as we lost this important production from a good player so we are going to be worse for it.  Fournier may have a better season than Richardson and the Celtics may also get more from Richardson than we got from Fournier and thus be better with Richardson (in fact I see this as likely).

I know this is kind of convoluted but these 3 players we have given up did not give the team all that much last season.  It is not like there was this important role any of them played that we now have to replace.  We were the team we were with relatively limited contribution from any of these 3 players.  I don't think we are worse than last season.  We are going to win more games is my prediction.  I suppose you could say we are worse than we could have been if Walker was healthy and Fournier was on the team all season, but what does that mean?

Or if we win say 48 games (better than last season), is everyone going to say yeah but we would have won 52 if we had Fournier and Walker?

Re: Celtics Depth Chart 2021-2022 season
« Reply #198 on: August 29, 2021, 11:22:55 AM »

Offline Surferdad

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A basketball writer named Goodman thinks the Celtics are way worse off this year than than last and Brad has mucked it all up badly .  Not a very hopeful analysis to be sure .

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/video/jeff-goodman-grades-celtics-offseason-c-team-worse-right-now

Horford, Richardson, Schröder>Kemba, Fournier, Thompson.

This is an interesting way to look at it.  These 3 swaps are the key ones but still of some impact is:

Out:  Kornet, Ojeleye
In:    Kanter, Dunn, Fernando

Fernando has been statistically equivalent to Ojeleye for their careers, Kanter is better than Kornet, and Dunn may or may not make the team but these back ends swaps do probably improve the team a little.

As to the main guys originally noted:

Horford replaces Thompson (an upgrade)
Schroder replaces Walker (debatable, I score a wash)
Richardson replaces Fournier (also debatable)

So to me, we have one decent upgrade and two probably net washes.  You have to look at it in terms of the actual production that the player provided the team last season, not what was the expectation if they weren't injured or weren't traded or whatever.  Schroder may help us win more games next season than Walker did last season because Walker only played 43 games (Schroder 61).  Walker scored more points (per game) but Schroder may do other things the team needs, and do it in more games.

As to Richardson vs. Fournier, even if you think Fournier is a better player, that isn't the question.  The question is to compare what Fournier gave the team last season vs. what you expect Richardson to give the team this season.  Fournier gave the Celtics 13 pts, 3 rebs, 3 Asst in 29 min in 16 games.  He did not impact the team so you can't look at that as we lost this important production from a good player so we are going to be worse for it.  Fournier may have a better season than Richardson and the Celtics may also get more from Richardson than we got from Fournier and thus be better with Richardson (in fact I see this as likely).

I know this is kind of convoluted but these 3 players we have given up did not give the team all that much last season.  It is not like there was this important role any of them played that we now have to replace.  We were the team we were with relatively limited contribution from any of these 3 players.  I don't think we are worse than last season.  We are going to win more games is my prediction.  I suppose you could say we are worse than we could have been if Walker was healthy and Fournier was on the team all season, but what does that mean?

Or if we win say 48 games (better than last season), is everyone going to say yeah but we would have won 52 if we had Fournier and Walker?
Fully agree with that take, plus I think this current team may be better built for the playoffs than the RS, better defense, good vet depth...

Re: Celtics Depth Chart 2021-2022 season
« Reply #199 on: August 29, 2021, 12:23:33 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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A basketball writer named Goodman thinks the Celtics are way worse off this year than than last and Brad has mucked it all up badly .  Not a very hopeful analysis to be sure .

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/video/jeff-goodman-grades-celtics-offseason-c-team-worse-right-now

Horford, Richardson, Schröder>Kemba, Fournier, Thompson.
I feel it's a offense league so give me Kemba, Fournier, and TT + pick 16.
I don't know that is such an offensive league that you can sacrifice defence so much.

Also, I don't think paying your 3rd and 4th options that much money would be wise, given they don't complement our stars an excessive amount.
Fournier does plenty. And Kemba was a fit till the knee got worse. He was drawing fouls and charge calls before the problems. Kemba got better but the times off hurt chemistry. He could be better with an off season and also expires same time Al does. If he shows that then he would be a good fit.
Not really. Fournier is a really good scorer and shooter. Below average at everything else.

Yeah, Kemba was awesome before his injury. But he wasn't recovering from that injury. He'd already had an off-season to recover. Kemba's final year is also fully guaranteed, unlike Al's.
If Fournier was above avg in this market he'd go for the max. The difference between his playmaking vs Richardson probably favors Fournier. And we know spacing helps the Js.

As for Kemba vs Al contract wise. If Al was going to be stretched to get a guy or is used to get a third star than Al is a better asset but basketball wise even with a gimp knee I take Kemba. Have no love for the aging quickly Horford.

Re: Celtics Depth Chart 2021-2022 season
« Reply #200 on: August 29, 2021, 02:26:49 PM »

Offline colincb

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We picked up 5 rotation players and got rid of 3

AH>KW AH defensive edge greatly exceeds Kemba's offense edge last year
EK>TT   Career and whatever set of years you want to compare.
JR=EF  JR Good D below average O. EF is the opposite

Added rotation players
Dennis Schroder
Kris Dunn

Internal Growth
PP22>PP21
AN22>AN21

Health22>Health 21 Cs were affected more than most teams last season

IOW, we had a good offseason

Otherwise, I predict there will be two bigs at times with Al at 5 on D and TL at 4, with them flipping on offense. Cannot compare AH's year at PHL to anything. Terrible roster construction. Also, Kanter always gets plenty of PT. He's not going to be playing Kornet's role.

Re: Celtics Depth Chart 2021-2022 season
« Reply #201 on: August 29, 2021, 07:08:08 PM »

Online Goldstar88

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A basketball writer named Goodman thinks the Celtics are way worse off this year than than last and Brad has mucked it all up badly .  Not a very hopeful analysis to be sure .

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/video/jeff-goodman-grades-celtics-offseason-c-team-worse-right-now

Horford, Richardson, Schröder>Kemba, Fournier, Thompson.
I feel it's a offense league so give me Kemba, Fournier, and TT + pick 16.
I don't know that is such an offensive league that you can sacrifice defence so much.

Also, I don't think paying your 3rd and 4th options that much money would be wise, given they don't complement our stars an excessive amount.
Fournier does plenty. And Kemba was a fit till the knee got worse. He was drawing fouls and charge calls before the problems. Kemba got better but the times off hurt chemistry. He could be better with an off season and also expires same time Al does. If he shows that then he would be a good fit.
Not really. Fournier is a really good scorer and shooter. Below average at everything else.

Yeah, Kemba was awesome before his injury. But he wasn't recovering from that injury. He'd already had an off-season to recover. Kemba's final year is also fully guaranteed, unlike Al's.
If Fournier was above avg in this market he'd go for the max. The difference between his playmaking vs Richardson probably favors Fournier. And we know spacing helps the Js.

As for Kemba vs Al contract wise. If Al was going to be stretched to get a guy or is used to get a third star than Al is a better asset but basketball wise even with a gimp knee I take Kemba. Have no love for the aging quickly Horford.

Kemba is clearly an inferior player at this stage. I don’t even think it’s close. Brad had to give up a 1st just to unload him for another bad contract and then OKC immediately bought him out as he had zero trade value.

Al is a better shooter, rebounder, defender, and just as good of a passer. Kemba is better at what, FT shooting?
« Last Edit: August 29, 2021, 07:37:04 PM by Goldstar88 »

Re: Celtics Depth Chart 2021-2022 season
« Reply #202 on: August 29, 2021, 07:17:16 PM »

Offline gouki88

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A basketball writer named Goodman thinks the Celtics are way worse off this year than than last and Brad has mucked it all up badly .  Not a very hopeful analysis to be sure .

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/video/jeff-goodman-grades-celtics-offseason-c-team-worse-right-now

Horford, Richardson, Schröder>Kemba, Fournier, Thompson.
I feel it's a offense league so give me Kemba, Fournier, and TT + pick 16.
I don't know that is such an offensive league that you can sacrifice defence so much.

Also, I don't think paying your 3rd and 4th options that much money would be wise, given they don't complement our stars an excessive amount.
Fournier does plenty. And Kemba was a fit till the knee got worse. He was drawing fouls and charge calls before the problems. Kemba got better but the times off hurt chemistry. He could be better with an off season and also expires same time Al does. If he shows that then he would be a good fit.
Not really. Fournier is a really good scorer and shooter. Below average at everything else.

Yeah, Kemba was awesome before his injury. But he wasn't recovering from that injury. He'd already had an off-season to recover. Kemba's final year is also fully guaranteed, unlike Al's.
If Fournier was above avg in this market he'd go for the max. The difference between his playmaking vs Richardson probably favors Fournier. And we know spacing helps the Js.

As for Kemba vs Al contract wise. If Al was going to be stretched to get a guy or is used to get a third star than Al is a better asset but basketball wise even with a gimp knee I take Kemba. Have no love for the aging quickly Horford.
What? What teams had max space? He's a limited player. Richardson at his best is a much better playmaker than Fournier ever has been. Spacing does help. But there's more to the game than spacing. We upgraded our passing (primarily our high-post passing), upgraded our defence significantly and replaced a total non-factor on offence (TT) with Horford, who can do a bit of everything.

Basketball wise it's a wash. Kemba does some things better than Al, but is less durable and plays a more easy to replace position. Schroder provides most of what Kemba does, just with slightly worse 3PT shooting.
2021 Minnesota Timberwolves:
PG: Trae Young / Jamal Murray / Jordan Clarkson
SG: Bradley Beal / Terry Rozier
SF: Bogdan Bogdanovic / Will Barton / Saddiq Bey
PF: Harrison Barnes / Aaron Gordon
C: Joel Embiid / John Collins / Mason Plumlee

Re: Celtics Depth Chart 2021-2022 season
« Reply #203 on: August 29, 2021, 08:05:49 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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I just love it. I can't wait to see the season play out.