Celtics Depth Chart 2021-2022 season

[Who]

I've warmed up more and more to the idea of starting Pritchard and Nesmith

G: Pritchard
G: Jaylen
F: Nesmith
F: Tatum
C: Horford

Our two best shooting role players alongside our two best scorers alongside our most skilled big man.

Keep Dennis Schroeder, Marcus Smart and Josh Richardson off the bench. Our veteran (hopefully reliable) role players. Schroeder as our super-sub scoring machine to add instant offense / shot creation. Smart as the utility player. Josh Richardson as the versatile G/F. With Rob Williams as a game changing interior defender. Giving Boston one of the finest benches in the league.

I like the combination of a deep bench and the shooting talent of the starting group.

[Moranis]

As to the PFs though (Parker, GWilliams, Fernando), it is a sorry group but I feel they are going to need to play more than 12 minutes total.  Further, I don't see us playing two of Horford, RWilliams, and Kanter at the same time as a way to get a second big on the court, just as this prior post indicates.  Last season, GWill had 18 min and Parker 14 min (while with Boston).  That is 32 min.  Semi played 17 min in addition (I know the box score minutes and the kind of average rotation projection minutes aren't the same but this is still 49 min vs 12 min projected for PFs).   It may not be that much this season but I think more than 12 min.

Parker was playing more minutes (and Grant) because there were so many injuries and not as much guard depth.  With better guard depth and with the roster as currently constructed, I don't see Tatum playing anything but PF and Tatum is going to play around 36 mpg (just as he did last year).  With Horford and Kanter (in addition to RW), I also don't think Parker or G. Williams will be playing center this year.  This is of course discussing a fully healthy roster, which we all know isn't going to happen every game.  There will be missed games which will adjust the rotation and minutes. 

I do agree with you though, Tatum should not be playing PF much, if at all, but with this roster, he has to.  That is why I'd be fine with with a Smart + non-Nesmith young guy for Gallinari or other similar level PF.  That would provide a real PF and allow Tatum to play at SF where he should be playing. 

I understand that injuries, foul trouble, etc are all going to affect the final season averages but I think this mental exercise is to assume the whole roster is available, what is the expected or baseline for minutes for a given game.  Also assumes that no one is in foul trouble and that there is no garbage time.

If GWilliams, Parker, or Ojeleye played more due to injuries, it was because of injuries to other bigs.  We played almost exclusively a traditional 2-big core line up until Theis was traded.  Even after Theis was traded, we mostly played with two bigs.

GWill, Parker, and Ojeleye had their playing time vary from game to game but on average, it was not all that much different before the Theis trade and after (Parker was only on the team after).  Even after the Theis trade, and we started with a 1-big line up, these 3 players saw the minutes indicated on average.

People just kind of make a blanket statement that we haven't played with a PF for several seasons and that is just not the case.  In fact there was only one season where our most used line up was a one big line up (2019-20 with Hayward).  Every other year for the last several, there was a PF or swing in our most used line up:

2016-17    Amir Johnson / Horford
2017-18    Horford / Baynes
2018-19    Horford / Morris
2019-20    Theis  / 3-wings (Hayward line up)
2020-21    Thompson / Theis (until we traded Theis)

You are mostly correct, but Tatum was the PF in 3 of the 5 most used lineups last year.  6, 7, and 8 either Tatum or Ojeleye was the PF.  9 and 10, Tatum was the PF.  So of the 10 most used lineups last year, Tatum was the PF in 5 and Tatum or Ojeleye was the PF in 3.  The other two lineups had the two big lineup with both Thompson and Theis.  According to bball-ref Tatum played 37% of his time at PF last year.  I think that percentage is going to increase significantly because of the better guard and wing depth this year, which is going to force Tatum to play PF almost exclusively.  That is how the team will maximize its best players and ensure the best players play.  There also isn't a true big like Theis (or even Thompson) that in theory can play PF defensively (or at least that is good enough to do that with big minutes).  The roster, imo, is going to require Tatum to play PF because there isn't really anyone else there good enough to do that.

[Silas]

I've warmed up more and more to the idea of starting Pritchard and Nesmith

G: Pritchard
G: Jaylen
F: Nesmith
F: Tatum
C: Horford

Our two best shooting role players alongside our two best scorers alongside our most skilled big man.

Keep Dennis Schroeder, Marcus Smart and Josh Richardson off the bench. Our veteran (hopefully reliable) role players. Schroeder as our super-sub scoring machine to add instant offense / shot creation. Smart as the utility player. Josh Richardson as the versatile G/F. With Rob Williams as a game changing interior defender. Giving Boston one of the finest benches in the league.

I like the combination of a deep bench and the shooting talent of the starting group.

I like the idea.  Worth a try, however I doubt many on this Forum would agree.

[Vermont Green]

You are mostly correct, but Tatum was the PF in 3 of the 5 most used lineups last year.  6, 7, and 8 either Tatum or Ojeleye was the PF.  9 and 10, Tatum was the PF.  So of the 10 most used lineups last year, Tatum was the PF in 5 and Tatum or Ojeleye was the PF in 3.  The other two lineups had the two big lineup with both Thompson and Theis.  According to bball-ref Tatum played 37% of his time at PF last year. I think that percentage is going to increase significantly because of the better guard and wing depth this year, which is going to force Tatum to play PF almost exclusively.  That is how the team will maximize its best players and ensure the best players play.  There also isn't a true big like Theis (or even Thompson) that in theory can play PF defensively (or at least that is good enough to do that with big minutes).  The roster, imo, is going to require Tatum to play PF because there isn't really anyone else there good enough to do that.

Last season especially, there were a lot of line ups used but you can break it down between before Theis trade and after.  Before the Theis trade, we played mostly 2-bigs and sometimes 1-big (Tatum at PF).  But Theis played starter minutes at PF and at times, Tatum played PF in a 1-big line up.

After the Theis trade, the PF role was all over the place.  We mostly started the game with 1-big (various players) but GWill, Parker, Ojeleye played PF a fair amount.  Your reference is that Tatum played PF 37% of the time.  That actually sounds about right to me and I would be fine if he played around that this season.  That is about 18 min leaving 30 min for others to play PF.

You originally posted that Tatum would play PF for 36 min (100%) and others (Parker/GWill) would play 12 min.  I still feel that it would be very unfortunate if this turns out to be the case.  You just can't play "small" that much and especially if it results in your best player playing out of position.

[Celtics4ever]

I've warmed up more and more to the idea of starting Pritchard and Nesmith

I haven't.  Summer league means crap.

[gouki88]

I've warmed up more and more to the idea of starting Pritchard and Nesmith

G: Pritchard
G: Jaylen
F: Nesmith
F: Tatum
C: Horford

Our two best shooting role players alongside our two best scorers alongside our most skilled big man.

Keep Dennis Schroeder, Marcus Smart and Josh Richardson off the bench. Our veteran (hopefully reliable) role players. Schroeder as our super-sub scoring machine to add instant offense / shot creation. Smart as the utility player. Josh Richardson as the versatile G/F. With Rob Williams as a game changing interior defender. Giving Boston one of the finest benches in the league.

I like the combination of a deep bench and the shooting talent of the starting group.

I would love to see it, but I can imagine our veteran expiring guys being quite upset. Would be brave of the rookie coach.

[gouki88]

I've warmed up more and more to the idea of starting Pritchard and Nesmith

I haven't.  Summer league means crap.

Summer League or not, they are both top 4 shooters on the team

[Celtics2021]

I've warmed up more and more to the idea of starting Pritchard and Nesmith

I haven't.  Summer league means crap.

Summer League or not, they are both top 4 shooters on the team

Still doesn’t mean they should be starting.  That’s still going to be two of Smart, Schröder, and Richardson, with Smart and Richardson being my guess.

[gouki88]

I've warmed up more and more to the idea of starting Pritchard and Nesmith

I haven't.  Summer league means crap.

Summer League or not, they are both top 4 shooters on the team

Still doesn’t mean they should be starting.  That’s still going to be two of Smart, Schröder, and Richardson, with Smart and Richardson being my guess.

I think a lot depends on how our three veteran expirings shoot from 3. If they're all hovering around 33% I don't like the idea of the defence being able to simply collapse on the Jays whenever they penetrate for little punishment.

I personally would only ever start one of our FRPs from last season, at least to start the season. But I'm also higher than most on Prtichard and think he will be a starting level guard for years.

[Jvalin]

I've warmed up more and more to the idea of starting Pritchard and Nesmith

G: Pritchard
G: Jaylen
F: Nesmith
F: Tatum
C: Horford

Our two best shooting role players alongside our two best scorers alongside our most skilled big man.

Keep Dennis Schroeder, Marcus Smart and Josh Richardson off the bench. Our veteran (hopefully reliable) role players. Schroeder as our super-sub scoring machine to add instant offense / shot creation. Smart as the utility player. Josh Richardson as the versatile G/F. With Rob Williams as a game changing interior defender. Giving Boston one of the finest benches in the league.

I like the combination of a deep bench and the shooting talent of the starting group.

I'd absolutely love this! TP! Hopefully, Udoka has the ballz to make it happen.

Alternatively, we could trade Smart + Schroder + JRich + pick(s) at the deadline for Beal/Simmons/Siakam. We'd then have no choice but to start at least one of Nesmith/Pritchard.

[tstorey_97]

Vermont Green's point on size, I think, deserves consideration.

I didn't like small ball and attributed that to my traditionalist leanings. I wished on a frontcourt with size as that is what had worked in Boston time and again. I don't think that "Theis Thompson" was much and doesn't make my point. The frontcourt duo needs one of the players to be "dynamic:"....Garnett, Cowens, McHale, Russell...etc

Tall/long/big players have an advantage inside. I get that having a seven footer hitting threes and "stretching the floor" is a big advantage and we kicked the daylights out of this franchise trying to get "that big" (AD).

In the meantime, I suggest the goal is to maintain some balance on the court.

I think that Jason Tatum makes an excellent power forward as he is an outstanding all star level player. However, I don't think that Jason Tatum is a power forward...no great finding here.

I suggest:

Schroder
Brown
Tatum
Horford
Robert

Is a respectably sized frontcourt that offers a good number of mismatch opportunities, adequate weight and length to defend the paint and somewhat limit opponent's inside game in "most cases".

When Robert had his "flash of brilliance" against the Nets before the injury, his "dynamism" was denying them the inside. A block party is a block party whether it's in Boston or Brooklyn. If Robert is healthy, which is a longshot, you start him...in most cases.

I vote Horford and Robert to do the heavy lifting for whatever minutes we can get and then whomever to play with the rotation players.

The above lineup gets us Smart and Richardson off the bench which is going to be one of the better "one two's" in the league. Those two guys can switch onto anybody whilst making any opposing backcourt miserable.

Pritchard
Nesmith
Parker
Langford
Grant

Will get their minutes based on matchup and what Ime wants. (I wonder if he's a stat geek like Stevens?)

This rotation group doesn't have enough size, but the roster isn't fixed yet either.

I insist we have a good team here and a big part of it...out of nowhere, we have a good to very good bench.

Smart + Richardson make the Celtics a much much better defensive team than last year and perhaps Ime can figure out how to unleash the Pritchard/Nesmith scoring machine on opposing benches.

Nets
Lakers
Warriors
Clips
Bucks
76'ers

Look better on paper, but it didn't work out that way last season did it?

[Who]

I've warmed up more and more to the idea of starting Pritchard and Nesmith

I haven't.  Summer league means crap.

I don't give a crap about it either. I like what I saw from them last season. Pritchard looked like a long term starter at PG and an elite shooter. Nesmith has less of a sure case but he also appeared to be the best shooter out of J-Rich, Smart & Schroeder. He also has the best size and gives us the most flexibility matchup wise defensively next to Jaylen and Tatum.

[Who]

I worry about Rob Williams and Horford together.

I fear that it would be one of the worst offensive pairings in the league at PF-C. Certainly among playoff teams. Rob Williams has little to no scoring ability. He is a garbage man who can pass. Horford has below average shooting, quickness & ball-handling for a PF. He has good but not great passing for PF due to his lack of driving ability. Combined that is uninspiring offensive play.

So how much do you gain defensively? How good is Al Horford in his mid-30s at defending smaller quicker more skilled opponents out at the 3 point line? How much do you gain from the switchability at C of Horford / Rob Williams vs the decline in switchability at PG-SG-SF-PF of Horford / Rob Williams? How much do you gain in rebounding?

In sum, are those gains defensively & rebounding wise more than the loss on offense? Color me a skeptic.

[colincb]

Hoopshype:

6 hours ago – via Sports Rabbi
Israeli guard Yam Madar is a candidate to play with German club Ratiopharm Ulm for the upcoming season should he not receive a contract to play in the NBA with the Boston Celtics, The Sports Rabbi Josh Halickman and Yakov Meir of Israel HaYom newspaper learned. The 20-year old Madar was selected by the Celtics in the 2020 NBA Draft with the 47th pick in the second round and is currently playing in the Summer League.

[gouki88]

Hoopshype:

6 hours ago – via Sports Rabbi
Israeli guard Yam Madar is a candidate to play with German club Ratiopharm Ulm for the upcoming season should he not receive a contract to play in the NBA with the Boston Celtics, The Sports Rabbi Josh Halickman and Yakov Meir of Israel HaYom newspaper learned. The 20-year old Madar was selected by the Celtics in the 2020 NBA Draft with the 47th pick in the second round and is currently playing in the Summer League.

Probably the right move to play overseas. That team has Cristiano Felicio and Jaron Blossomgame. Was wondering where Felicio had ended up