Author Topic: You need Tall athletes to Win  (Read 2984 times)

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Re: You need Tall athletes to Win
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2021, 09:29:53 AM »

Offline Birdman

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I been saying this all along
C/PF-Horford, Baynes, Noel, Theis, Morris,
SF/SG- Tatum, Brown, Hayward, Smart, Semi, Clark
PG- Irving, Rozier, Larkin

Re: You need Tall athletes to Win
« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2021, 02:35:38 PM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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 What's the main reason USA just lost to France? Size. Rudy Gobert had 21 points and 16 boards and changed a bunch of shots at the rim.

 USA top center mules Turner played 10 minutes.  Pathetic.

Re: You need Tall athletes to Win
« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2021, 05:14:28 PM »

Offline Jvalin

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You need Tall athletes to Win
We have Tacko so I guess we are about to build a dynasty!  8)
Milwaukee Bucks
PG: CP3 - De'Aaron Fox - De'Anthony Melton
SG: Buddy Hield - Hardaway Jr. - De'Anthony Melton
SF: Middleton - Kyle Anderson - Kelly Oubre
PF: Durant - Gallinari - PJ Tucker
C: Ayton - Nurkic - PJ Tucker

Re: You need Tall athletes to Win
« Reply #18 on: July 25, 2021, 05:38:50 PM »

Offline Jvalin

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 What's the main reason USA just lost to France? Size. Rudy Gobert had 21 points and 16 boards and changed a bunch of shots at the rim.

 USA top center mules Turner played 10 minutes.  Pathetic.
Dude, these stats are from the game vs France in the 2019 FIBA World Cup. Gobert had 14 and 9 today. Myles Turner isn't even part of the US roster.  ;D
Milwaukee Bucks
PG: CP3 - De'Aaron Fox - De'Anthony Melton
SG: Buddy Hield - Hardaway Jr. - De'Anthony Melton
SF: Middleton - Kyle Anderson - Kelly Oubre
PF: Durant - Gallinari - PJ Tucker
C: Ayton - Nurkic - PJ Tucker

Re: You need Tall athletes to Win
« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2021, 06:25:36 PM »

Offline gouki88

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 What's the main reason USA just lost to France? Size. Rudy Gobert had 21 points and 16 boards and changed a bunch of shots at the rim.

 USA top center mules Turner played 10 minutes.  Pathetic.
What game are you talking about?
2021 Minnesota Timberwolves:
PG: Trae Young / Jamal Murray / Jordan Clarkson
SG: Bradley Beal / Terry Rozier
SF: Bogdan Bogdanovic / Will Barton / Saddiq Bey
PF: Harrison Barnes / Aaron Gordon
C: Joel Embiid / John Collins / Mason Plumlee

Re: You need Tall athletes to Win
« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2021, 07:15:01 PM »

Offline tstorey_97

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Game 7 lineup

Giannis - 6'11" 242
Tucker 6'5" 245
Lopez 7' 270
Holiday 6'3" 205
Middleton 6'7" 222

Connaughton 6'5" 210
Portis 6'10" 250

This Bucks team isn't huge, but, if you watched the games, they had more push than the Suns. In turn, I don't know if that's saying much.

In general a team with talented bigs is what you want in the playoffs. If the opponents shooters tighten up? You've got some length and weight inside.

I think Robert + Horford + Tatum is a solid frontcourt....I guess we get to find out.


 

Re: You need Tall athletes to Win
« Reply #21 on: July 25, 2021, 08:09:51 PM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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 What's the main reason USA just lost to France? Size. Rudy Gobert had 21 points and 16 boards and changed a bunch of shots at the rim.

 USA top center mules Turner played 10 minutes.  Pathetic.
Dude, these stats are from the game vs France in the 2019 FIBA World Cup. Gobert had 14 and 9 today. Myles Turner isn't even part of the US roster.  ;D



 I blame Google lol, that's what came up when I googled the game. Horrible construction of this roster. USA should go all in or let college kids play.

Re: You need Tall athletes to Win
« Reply #22 on: July 25, 2021, 11:36:35 PM »

Online rogueandpoet

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Certainly true that the Celtics have had no "real" big men since KG. Olynyk, Sullinger, Horford too, guys who have little or no impact in the paint. Timelord has an impact in the paint and if he can stay healthy he will be the difference maker, Barnes has similar kills.

Re: You need Tall athletes to Win
« Reply #23 on: July 26, 2021, 04:44:48 AM »

Offline Sophomore

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If the Cs get a stretch 4 they aren’t undersized anymore. One standout fact: Danny drafted a number of guys with plus wingspans - Rob is just a physical anomaly even before he jumps.  Using the barefoot measurements here.

Smart - 6’2” height, 6’9 1/2” wingspan
Brown - 6’6 1/2”h, 6’11 1/2”w
Tatum - 6’8”h, 6’11”w
Stretch - 6’7 1/2”h 7’1 1/2 w (I used Larry Nance…)
Rob - 6’8”h 7’6” w (That wingspan is crazy long. His standing reach is 9’4” - good for 80th percentile among centers when he was drafted, per P3. For comparison, DeAndre Ayton and Jarrett Allen are both listed at 9’3” standing reach, Brook Lopez at 9’5”)

Who knows what the bench will be, at this point. But Nesmith and Romeo both have solid length at the 2, Fournier and Horford both OK at their positions. Payton… eh. Maybe we will acquire Sataransky.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2021, 05:48:24 AM by Sophomore »

Re: You need Tall athletes to Win
« Reply #24 on: July 26, 2021, 09:18:38 AM »

Offline Kernewek

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Certainly true that the Celtics have had no "real" big men since KG. Olynyk, Sullinger, Horford too, guys who have little or no impact in the paint. Timelord has an impact in the paint and if he can stay healthy he will be the difference maker, Barnes has similar kills.

I think it's an interesting idea, that Al Horford is not a "real" big man. Unless the criteria is that he's not a seven-footer?
Man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much—the wheel, New York, wars and so on—whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time.

But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man—for precisely the same reasons.

Re: You need Tall athletes to Win
« Reply #25 on: July 26, 2021, 09:24:01 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Certainly true that the Celtics have had no "real" big men since KG. Olynyk, Sullinger, Horford too, guys who have little or no impact in the paint. Timelord has an impact in the paint and if he can stay healthy he will be the difference maker, Barnes has similar kills.

I think it's an interesting idea, that Al Horford is not a "real" big man. Unless the criteria is that he's not a seven-footer?
He said what his criteria were i.e. little or no impact in the paint. 
2021 Historical Draft - 5th Pick - Raptors
PG - Tiny Archibald 73, Don Buse 77, Terrell Brandon 96
SG - Chet Walker 67, Michael Cooper 87, Raja Bell 06
SF - Predrag "Peja" Stojakovic 04, Kiki Vandeweghe 87, Robert Covington 18
PF - Karl Malone 97, Spencer Haywood 73, David West 08
C - Ben Wallace 04, George Mikan 50, Al Jefferson 08

Re: You need Tall athletes to Win
« Reply #26 on: July 26, 2021, 11:09:25 AM »

Offline Kernewek

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What's curious to me is how little that squares with the reality of Horford's best years with us.

If the analysis here is "impact in the paint=blocked shots", sure.  Big man go jump! ball go zoom! ;D
Man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much—the wheel, New York, wars and so on—whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time.

But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man—for precisely the same reasons.

Re: You need Tall athletes to Win
« Reply #27 on: July 26, 2021, 11:45:47 AM »

Offline Vermont Green

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What's curious to me is how little that squares with the reality of Horford's best years with us.

If the analysis here is "impact in the paint=blocked shots", sure.  Big man go jump! ball go zoom! ;D

I am in the camp of the Celtics need a big.  It is interesting about Horford, we had some really good seasons when he was part of a 2-big core line up.  We played some 1-big when he was here also but mostly it was Horford-Baynes or Horford-Morris as the core line up.  Horford is now several years older and was never a shot blocker but is a good team defense player and can be a productive C for us this year I believe.

The problem is not the C position, right now we have 4 decent centers (Thompson, RWilliams, MBrown + Horford).  Not great, but decent and depending on the development of Williams and Brown, there is some ceiling there to potentially be realized.  In fact, one of these will likely be traded.

The problem is at PF obviously.  None of these 4 bigs are going to be effective if on the court together.  We need to be able to play a legit PF in a 2-big line up at times (not all the time) to have sufficient versatility in my opinion.  Right now, that PF would be Parker or GWilliams.  I don't count Tatum as a big.  If he is on the court with just one of the centers, we are playing 1-big.  That is fine sometimes, even often, but not always.

Re: You need Tall athletes to Win
« Reply #28 on: July 26, 2021, 12:21:13 PM »

Offline Surferdad

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What's curious to me is how little that squares with the reality of Horford's best years with us.

If the analysis here is "impact in the paint=blocked shots", sure.  Big man go jump! ball go zoom! ;D

I am in the camp of the Celtics need a big.  It is interesting about Horford, we had some really good seasons when he was part of a 2-big core line up.  We played some 1-big when he was here also but mostly it was Horford-Baynes or Horford-Morris as the core line up.  Horford is now several years older and was never a shot blocker but is a good team defense player and can be a productive C for us this year I believe.

The problem is not the C position, right now we have 4 decent centers (Thompson, RWilliams, MBrown + Horford).  Not great, but decent and depending on the development of Williams and Brown, there is some ceiling there to potentially be realized.  In fact, one of these will likely be traded.

The problem is at PF obviously.  None of these 4 bigs are going to be effective if on the court together.  We need to be able to play a legit PF in a 2-big line up at times (not all the time) to have sufficient versatility in my opinion.  Right now, that PF would be Parker or GWilliams.  I don't count Tatum as a big.  If he is on the court with just one of the centers, we are playing 1-big.  That is fine sometimes, even often, but not always.
Very close to my line of thinking as well.
https://forum.celticsstrong.com/index.php?topic=104983.msg2937515#msg2937515

Re: You need Tall athletes to Win
« Reply #29 on: July 26, 2021, 12:32:56 PM »

Offline Wretch

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So what you're saying is all other things being equal (skill, talent, athleticism, etc.) the taller player/team tends to win more vs. a smaller player/team.  Color me shocked.

The problem is the taller players with equal skills, talent, athleticism, etc to smaller players are exceedingly rare, hence Dirk, KD, and the rest being called unicorns.