What team is in worst situation in NBA?

[tarheelsxxiii]

Hope it never happens, but if Tatum and Brown left in FA, the Celtics would be very deep bottom dwellers.

I don't think we'd let them leave in FA without trading them the year or two before.

Also, not something to worry about for 3 years or so

That won't stop some

Hey now, be nice.  A major shake-up would happen sooner than that, and we really need them to stay.

[gouki88]

Hope it never happens, but if Tatum and Brown left in FA, the Celtics would be very deep bottom dwellers.

I don't think we'd let them leave in FA without trading them the year or two before.

Also, not something to worry about for 3 years or so

That won't stop some

Hey now, be nice.  A major shake-up would happen sooner than that, and we really need them to stay.

Wasn’t trying to refer to you Tars. I’ve seen some people say that if we don’t do x or y this off-season the Jays will leave in free agency. That’s not really something I consider too valid given how long they’re signed for.

[SHAQATTACK]

club LeBron

They ve run out of new -old has beens to put beside Lewhiner

[kraidstar]

The bulls have a foot on the treadmill and look committed to adding the other

They owe their 1st rounder this year and in 2023 to Orlando. Their best player is Zack Lavine, aka poor man's Beal, who can't guard a chair. After that a dinosaur big in Vucevic and the underwhelming Markkanen.

All their hopes lie in landing a monster free agent next offseason. I bet they settle for a second-tier player and get stuck for a decade.

The Knicks are another dark horse candidate. Their fans just got a taste of playoff action and that cap space is burning a hole in their pockets. There's a 99% chance they make dumb signings and get stuck on the treadmill. Expectations will force them into bad decisions.

They will find a way to blow it. I believe in you, Knicks!

[jambr380]

Orlando.

They were stuck in not awful to mediocre purgatory for a decade. They are young and now, after offloading Gordon, Vucevic and Fournier, they are lacking consistently healthy talent.

I see them being a bottom 3 team for the next 2-3 years at the very least.

Maybe in the immediate future, but at least they pulled the plug and are officially now in rebuilding mode. They have three future 1sts from CHI/DEN, a bunch of 2nds, as well as all of their own picks. They also have a pretty clean cap after this coming season. I understand they don't have high level young talent, but I imagine 1 or 2 of their current players will emerge as something. They also have picks 5 and 8 in this draft.

They are at least a year ahead of other mediocre teams who aren't willing to admit they are going nowhere.

[nickagneta]

Orlando.

They were stuck in not awful to mediocre purgatory for a decade. They are young and now, after offloading Gordon, Vucevic and Fournier, they are lacking consistently healthy talent.

I see them being a bottom 3 team for the next 2-3 years at the very least.

Maybe in the immediate future, but at least they pulled the plug and are officially now in rebuilding mode. They have three future 1sts from CHI/DEN, a bunch of 2nds, as well as all of their own picks. They also have a pretty clean cap after this coming season. I understand they don't have high level young talent, but I imagine 1 or 2 of their current players will emerge as something. They also have picks 5 and 8 in this draft.

They are at least a year ahead of other mediocre teams who aren't willing to admit they are going nowhere.

Only if they hit on their picks.

The last player the Magic drafted that was an All-Star for them, was Dwight Howard...in 2004.

List of their first rounders:

2020 Cole Anthony
2019 Chuma Okeke
2018 Mohamed Bamba
2017 Jonathan Isaac and
2016
2015 Mario Hezonja
2014 Aaron Gordon
2013 Victor Oladipo(didn't become All-Star until 2 teams later)
2012 Andrew Nicholson
2011
2010 Daniel Orton
2009
2008 Courtney Lee
2007
2006 JJ Redick
2005 Fran Vazquez
2004 Dwight Howard

I have zero faith the Magic will draft well. Hence why I think they are in the worst situation.

[Celtics4ever]

Knicks for me, they want to be a major player but really are the kids looking inside the toy story that can 't get it.  They had their title, of course, and come up in every rumor but their assets are not that good.  The only reason they pop up is their press, but as a team their dog doo doo

[bdm860]

Orlando.

They were stuck in not awful to mediocre purgatory for a decade. They are young and now, after offloading Gordon, Vucevic and Fournier, they are lacking consistently healthy talent.

I see them being a bottom 3 team for the next 2-3 years at the very least.

Maybe in the immediate future, but at least they pulled the plug and are officially now in rebuilding mode. They have three future 1sts from CHI/DEN, a bunch of 2nds, as well as all of their own picks. They also have a pretty clean cap after this coming season. I understand they don't have high level young talent, but I imagine 1 or 2 of their current players will emerge as something. They also have picks 5 and 8 in this draft.

They are at least a year ahead of other mediocre teams who aren't willing to admit they are going nowhere.

Only if they hit on their picks.

The last player the Magic drafted that was an All-Star for them, was Dwight Howard...in 2004.

List of their first rounders:

2020 Cole Anthony
2019 Chuma Okeke
2018 Mohamed Bamba
2017 Jonathan Isaac and
2016
2015 Mario Hezonja
2014 Aaron Gordon
2013 Victor Oladipo(didn't become All-Star until 2 teams later)
2012 Andrew Nicholson
2011
2010 Daniel Orton
2009
2008 Courtney Lee
2007
2006 JJ Redick
2005 Fran Vazquez
2004 Dwight Howard

I have zero faith the Magic will draft well. Hence why I think they are in the worst situation.

Not to dismiss your overall point (no faith in the Magic's ability to draft).  But your All-Star point just reminded me of the people a few years ago saying Danny has never drafted an All-Star (and Rondo didn't count because he was traded).

If we applied the same metric to every team (solely about drafting their own All-Star, not the quality of the other picks), I'm not sure Orlando is a huge outlier compared to other teams,  Quick look (and probably missing some draft day trades):

Memphis's only drafted All-Star was draft day trade for Pau Gasol (2001).

Houston's last All-Star draft pick Yao Ming (2002).

Lakers' last one was the Bynum (2005).

Spurs' last one was Parker (2001), if we don't count Kawhi's (2012) draft day trade (but we should count Kawhi).

Kings have only 1 All-Star they drafted in the last 2 decades, Cousins (2010), before that was Peja (1996).

Nets only have 1 in the last 20 years, Lopez (2008), before that Martin (2000).

World champion Bucks also only have 1 in the last 20 years, Giannis (2013), before that was Michael Redd (2000).

Miami only has drafted 2 of their own All-Stars twice in their 33 year franchise history, Wade (2005) and Bam (2017).

Knicks with 2 in 30+ years, Lee (2005) and Porzingis (2015).

Phoenix, up until last year, was on a pretty long drought since Stoudemire (2002).



Orlando, not a good drafter, poorly run franchise, skeptical they'll be able to turn things around, absolutely.

But the number of their own All-Stars they've drafted, not that out of line with many other teams.

[nickagneta]

Orlando.

They were stuck in not awful to mediocre purgatory for a decade. They are young and now, after offloading Gordon, Vucevic and Fournier, they are lacking consistently healthy talent.

I see them being a bottom 3 team for the next 2-3 years at the very least.

Maybe in the immediate future, but at least they pulled the plug and are officially now in rebuilding mode. They have three future 1sts from CHI/DEN, a bunch of 2nds, as well as all of their own picks. They also have a pretty clean cap after this coming season. I understand they don't have high level young talent, but I imagine 1 or 2 of their current players will emerge as something. They also have picks 5 and 8 in this draft.

They are at least a year ahead of other mediocre teams who aren't willing to admit they are going nowhere.

Only if they hit on their picks.

The last player the Magic drafted that was an All-Star for them, was Dwight Howard...in 2004.

List of their first rounders:

2020 Cole Anthony
2019 Chuma Okeke
2018 Mohamed Bamba
2017 Jonathan Isaac and
2016
2015 Mario Hezonja
2014 Aaron Gordon
2013 Victor Oladipo(didn't become All-Star until 2 teams later)
2012 Andrew Nicholson
2011
2010 Daniel Orton
2009
2008 Courtney Lee
2007
2006 JJ Redick
2005 Fran Vazquez
2004 Dwight Howard

I have zero faith the Magic will draft well. Hence why I think they are in the worst situation.

Not to dismiss your overall point (no faith in the Magic's ability to draft).  But your All-Star point just reminded me of the people a few years ago saying Danny has never drafted an All-Star (and Rondo didn't count because he was traded).

If we applied the same metric to every team (solely about drafting their own All-Star, not the quality of the other picks), I'm not sure Orlando is a huge outlier compared to other teams,  Quick look (and probably missing some draft day trades):

Memphis's only drafted All-Star was draft day trade for Pau Gasol (2001).

Houston's last All-Star draft pick Yao Ming (2002).

Lakers' last one was the Bynum (2005).

Spurs' last one was Parker (2001), if we don't count Kawhi's (2012) draft day trade (but we should count Kawhi).

Kings have only 1 All-Star they drafted in the last 2 decades, Cousins (2010), before that was Peja (1996).

Nets only have 1 in the last 20 years, Lopez (2008), before that Martin (2000).

World champion Bucks also only have 1 in the last 20 years, Giannis (2013), before that was Michael Redd (2000).

Miami only has drafted 2 of their own All-Stars twice in their 33 year franchise history, Wade (2005) and Bam (2017).

Knicks with 2 in 30+ years, Lee (2005) and Porzingis (2015).

Phoenix, up until last year, was on a pretty long drought since Stoudemire (2002).



Orlando, not a good drafter, poorly run franchise, skeptical they'll be able to turn things around, absolutely.

But the number of their own All-Stars they've drafted, not that out of line with many other teams.

Lot of those examples are large market teams in desirable free market cities or teams with a giant amount of success over the time period meaning they pick very low in the first for most of those years. The only two I see as similar as the Magic are NYK and the Kings.

[action781]

I'll start with the teams that IMO are not candidates for this list, which are teams that have some reason to be positive whether that be immediate contention or optimism for the future:
Philly - contender
Brooklyn - contender
Milwaukee - contender
Atlanta - up and coming
Miami - finals last year w/ mostly same roster
Boston - contender & up and coming
Detroit - Cade. And very good looking cap sheet 1 summer from now.
Utah - contender
Phoenix - contender
Denver - contender
LAC - contender
Dallas - Luka
LAL - contender
Memphis - Morant
GSW - contender
Pelicans - Zion
OKC - so many draft picks and expectations are so low they are likely to be surpassed, reminds me of Boston post big 3 era

Teams that I'm unsure of:
NYK - I guess a fan could sell themself on the team being young with room to continue growing.  Their cap sheet is super clean too and its a desirable city.
Indy - I don't think Sabonis is a #1 nor do I see them having a path to acqiuring one, but he's very young and they got him on a great value long term deal.
Charlotte - Mediocre, but a young player w/ high upside.  had them in the above tier at first.
Toronto - Declining, but still has a decent young core w/ pieces to work with including a nice 2021 draftee.
SA Spurs - terrible position right now, but their management and coaching alone are strong enough to keep them out of being in the potentially "worst position"
TWolves - definitely not in a good position, nor a bad one, but at least they have lots of desirable players if/when they choose to shake things up
Houston - #2 pick will be a nice add and future draft pick stash is nice, but the cap sheet isn't great.  Definitely not the worst position.

Contenders for worst position (ranked from best to worst):
Sacramento - I just have no faith they'll be able to turn this team into a contender with large chunks of what they have in place now.  But Fox and Bagley are young with upside I guess.
Washington - How close is Beal to demanding a trade which gets Wash back only $0.75 per dollar?  And two more years of Russ with no assets to build around.  At least they'll be in the clear in a couple seasons.
Portland - I don't think they're a contender, that cap sheet looks really bad and I don't see any path where they are relevant again in the next 5 years.
Orlando - Cap sheet looks so bad several years out.  At least they won't be "so mediocre" that they can't get luck into a high draft pick.
Chicago - This team got themselves just good enough to never contend and never get a good draft position.  They're 1 summer away from extending this mediocrity by overpaying Zach Lavine (or otherwise plummeting in talent) and 2 summers away from following that up with a Vucevic overpay for the same reason.

[bdm860]

Orlando.

They were stuck in not awful to mediocre purgatory for a decade. They are young and now, after offloading Gordon, Vucevic and Fournier, they are lacking consistently healthy talent.

I see them being a bottom 3 team for the next 2-3 years at the very least.

Maybe in the immediate future, but at least they pulled the plug and are officially now in rebuilding mode. They have three future 1sts from CHI/DEN, a bunch of 2nds, as well as all of their own picks. They also have a pretty clean cap after this coming season. I understand they don't have high level young talent, but I imagine 1 or 2 of their current players will emerge as something. They also have picks 5 and 8 in this draft.

They are at least a year ahead of other mediocre teams who aren't willing to admit they are going nowhere.

Only if they hit on their picks.

The last player the Magic drafted that was an All-Star for them, was Dwight Howard...in 2004.

List of their first rounders:

2020 Cole Anthony
2019 Chuma Okeke
2018 Mohamed Bamba
2017 Jonathan Isaac and
2016
2015 Mario Hezonja
2014 Aaron Gordon
2013 Victor Oladipo(didn't become All-Star until 2 teams later)
2012 Andrew Nicholson
2011
2010 Daniel Orton
2009
2008 Courtney Lee
2007
2006 JJ Redick
2005 Fran Vazquez
2004 Dwight Howard

I have zero faith the Magic will draft well. Hence why I think they are in the worst situation.

Not to dismiss your overall point (no faith in the Magic's ability to draft).  But your All-Star point just reminded me of the people a few years ago saying Danny has never drafted an All-Star (and Rondo didn't count because he was traded).

If we applied the same metric to every team (solely about drafting their own All-Star, not the quality of the other picks), I'm not sure Orlando is a huge outlier compared to other teams,  Quick look (and probably missing some draft day trades):

Memphis's only drafted All-Star was draft day trade for Pau Gasol (2001).

Houston's last All-Star draft pick Yao Ming (2002).

Lakers' last one was the Bynum (2005).

Spurs' last one was Parker (2001), if we don't count Kawhi's (2012) draft day trade (but we should count Kawhi).

Kings have only 1 All-Star they drafted in the last 2 decades, Cousins (2010), before that was Peja (1996).

Nets only have 1 in the last 20 years, Lopez (2008), before that Martin (2000).

World champion Bucks also only have 1 in the last 20 years, Giannis (2013), before that was Michael Redd (2000).

Miami only has drafted 2 of their own All-Stars twice in their 33 year franchise history, Wade (2005) and Bam (2017).

Knicks with 2 in 30+ years, Lee (2005) and Porzingis (2015).

Phoenix, up until last year, was on a pretty long drought since Stoudemire (2002).



Orlando, not a good drafter, poorly run franchise, skeptical they'll be able to turn things around, absolutely.

But the number of their own All-Stars they've drafted, not that out of line with many other teams.

Lot of those examples are large market teams in desirable free market cities or teams with a giant amount of success over the time period meaning they pick very low in the first for most of those years. The only two I see as similar as the Magic are NYK and the Kings.

Is their really that much of a difference between Orlando and Phoenix, Memphis, Milwaukee?

They've all had their share of team success and failures, 3 of the 4 have been to the Finals during your time frame (since Dwight, so last 17 years), all have been to at least the Conference Finals.  They all have between 6-10 years making the playoffs (MEM 10, MIL and ORL 8, PHX 6) and 7-11 years missing it.

MIL and PHO both have had 7 top 10 picks, ORL 6, and MEM 5.

If we go top 15, then PHO has had 14, MIL 10, ORL 7, MEM still 5.

All with 0-1 All Stars to show for it.

Just to be clear, I'm not disagreeing Orlando isn't in the worst situation in the NBA, or that they're poor drafters.  That's a valid take.  Just the only-drafted-1-All-Star-that-played-for-you thing.  That's not abnormal.

[tarheelsxxiii]

Hope it never happens, but if Tatum and Brown left in FA, the Celtics would be very deep bottom dwellers.

I don't think we'd let them leave in FA without trading them the year or two before.

Also, not something to worry about for 3 years or so

That won't stop some

Hey now, be nice.  A major shake-up would happen sooner than that, and we really need them to stay.

Wasn’t trying to refer to you Tars. I’ve seen some people say that if we don’t do x or y this off-season the Jays will leave in free agency. That’s not really something I consider too valid given how long they’re signed for.

Oh yeah. Who knows what their values and priorities are in considering jobs.  But I hope we find a way to convince both of them to stay.

[Moranis]

Orlando.

They were stuck in not awful to mediocre purgatory for a decade. They are young and now, after offloading Gordon, Vucevic and Fournier, they are lacking consistently healthy talent.

I see them being a bottom 3 team for the next 2-3 years at the very least.

Maybe in the immediate future, but at least they pulled the plug and are officially now in rebuilding mode. They have three future 1sts from CHI/DEN, a bunch of 2nds, as well as all of their own picks. They also have a pretty clean cap after this coming season. I understand they don't have high level young talent, but I imagine 1 or 2 of their current players will emerge as something. They also have picks 5 and 8 in this draft.

They are at least a year ahead of other mediocre teams who aren't willing to admit they are going nowhere.

Only if they hit on their picks.

The last player the Magic drafted that was an All-Star for them, was Dwight Howard...in 2004.

List of their first rounders:

2020 Cole Anthony
2019 Chuma Okeke
2018 Mohamed Bamba
2017 Jonathan Isaac and
2016
2015 Mario Hezonja
2014 Aaron Gordon
2013 Victor Oladipo(didn't become All-Star until 2 teams later)
2012 Andrew Nicholson
2011
2010 Daniel Orton
2009
2008 Courtney Lee
2007
2006 JJ Redick
2005 Fran Vazquez
2004 Dwight Howard

I have zero faith the Magic will draft well. Hence why I think they are in the worst situation.

Not to dismiss your overall point (no faith in the Magic's ability to draft).  But your All-Star point just reminded me of the people a few years ago saying Danny has never drafted an All-Star (and Rondo didn't count because he was traded).

If we applied the same metric to every team (solely about drafting their own All-Star, not the quality of the other picks), I'm not sure Orlando is a huge outlier compared to other teams,  Quick look (and probably missing some draft day trades):

Memphis's only drafted All-Star was draft day trade for Pau Gasol (2001).

Houston's last All-Star draft pick Yao Ming (2002).

Lakers' last one was the Bynum (2005).

Spurs' last one was Parker (2001), if we don't count Kawhi's (2012) draft day trade (but we should count Kawhi).

Kings have only 1 All-Star they drafted in the last 2 decades, Cousins (2010), before that was Peja (1996).

Nets only have 1 in the last 20 years, Lopez (2008), before that Martin (2000).

World champion Bucks also only have 1 in the last 20 years, Giannis (2013), before that was Michael Redd (2000).

Miami only has drafted 2 of their own All-Stars twice in their 33 year franchise history, Wade (2005) and Bam (2017).

Knicks with 2 in 30+ years, Lee (2005) and Porzingis (2015).

Phoenix, up until last year, was on a pretty long drought since Stoudemire (2002).



Orlando, not a good drafter, poorly run franchise, skeptical they'll be able to turn things around, absolutely.

But the number of their own All-Stars they've drafted, not that out of line with many other teams.

Lot of those examples are large market teams in desirable free market cities or teams with a giant amount of success over the time period meaning they pick very low in the first for most of those years. The only two I see as similar as the Magic are NYK and the Kings.

Is their really that much of a difference between Orlando and Phoenix, Memphis, Milwaukee?

They've all had their share of team success and failures, 3 of the 4 have been to the Finals during your time frame (since Dwight, so last 17 years), all have been to at least the Conference Finals.  They all have between 6-10 years making the playoffs (MEM 10, MIL and ORL 8, PHX 6) and 7-11 years missing it.

MIL and PHO both have had 7 top 10 picks, ORL 6, and MEM 5.

If we go top 15, then PHO has had 14, MIL 10, ORL 7, MEM still 5.

All with 0-1 All Stars to show for it.

Just to be clear, I'm not disagreeing Orlando isn't in the worst situation in the NBA, or that they're poor drafters.  That's a valid take.  Just the only-drafted-1-All-Star-that-played-for-you thing.  That's not abnormal.

I mean Boston only has 3 and none of them were their own picks, they acquired Rondo in a draft day trade and then Tatum and Brown with the Brooklyn pick.

[Surferdad]

Pelicans - Zion

This is the only mention so far of NOP in the entire thread.  Zion is as promising as when he was drafted, and that is meant as a dig.  He was injured and out of shape.  Ingram is good, but not great.  They just re-started with a new coach.  Why are the NYK with Barrett and Randle considered but not the Pels?

[gouki88]

Pelicans - Zion

This is the only mention so far of NOP in the entire thread.  Zion is as promising as when he was drafted, and that is meant as a dig.  He was injured and out of shape.  Ingram is good, but not great.  They just re-started with a new coach.  Why are the NYK with Barrett and Randle considered but not the Pels?

Zion just put up an All-NBA calibre season and played 61 games, more than Jaylen Brown. What is your 'dig' based on? Especially as he lost 20 or so pounds for this season