Author Topic: LeBron finally done?  (Read 4613 times)

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Re: LeBron finally done?
« Reply #45 on: May 06, 2021, 06:31:52 AM »

Offline gouki88

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I think Moranis has more of a point than you are allowing here.
I disagree. He's intentionally misusing the term "superteam" to try and define it as something else. Using examples of players forcing their way out of teams as comparable to LeBron's collusion with Wade and Bosh, or Durant's collusion with Irving, or whatever modern superteam, is fallacious to me.

The modern understanding of the term is based upon player-to-player recruitment and communication behind the backs of the team. This is not seen through his examples
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Re: LeBron finally done?
« Reply #46 on: May 06, 2021, 06:32:06 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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I don't want to take anything away from last year's championship but how much did that big layoff before the bubble help a guy like Lebron? It seems to me that an older player with a lot of miles is the type that would've benefited the most in that situation.

He's had the injury now this season and whatever rehab work goes into that. He might not be able to turn it on like before.

All that is true ,  it was gift to Lebron , he wanted a ring in the worst way and nba was dying to play ball at any cost and have a season completed and crown a champion. Anybody could see what was going to happen early on , threads predicted it,  , it worked out just like he hoped.  Last season was a joke and should have never happened ending in a championship. 

Re: LeBron finally done?
« Reply #47 on: May 06, 2021, 09:30:54 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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greatest player of his generation yet couldn't accomplish anything without having to create a 'superteam' to do it.  no respect for him, his whining and the ridiculous superstar treatment he received the moment he stepped on the court as a rookie.  The ridiculous stretches he'd enjoy without being called for a single foul were egregious and blatant show of favoritism by the league.

The only one of his career moments I ever enjoyed was the game where he fouled out against the Celtics in the playoffs and he couldn't get over the fact that the refs dared to foul him out.
Ah yes because the greatest players of all time weren't winning their multiple championships on super teams.
I think where people get nuts about the superteams isn't that the greatest players play on superteams, but how those teams are created. The 80's Celtics, Lakers and Pistons and the 90's Bulls and Rockets and recent teams like San Antonio, Detroit, Dallas and the pre-Durant Warriors were put together more organically. But the Heat, the Cavs, this recent iteration of the Lakers and the Durant Warriors were more about players forcing themselves together to form those teams superteams. I think that's where people get mad. Personally, it doesn't bother me. If in 2-3 years someone like Doncic or Giannis wants to force his way to Boston to form a superteam with the Jays, count me in.
I don't know if those teams were organic.  For example, Magic has said a number of times if the Lakers didn't win the coin flip, he was going to go back to Michigan State and finish college.  He only stayed in the draft because he wanted to play with Kareem.  Moses Malone won a MVP and forced his way out of Houston and ended up on a super team in Philly.  Kareem forced his way out of Milwaukee.  Wilt moved around a bunch.  So did Shaq.  Kobe refused to report to Charlotte so they had to trade him to the Lakers.  This notion that this is some new development just isn't borne in reality.  Everything is way more publicized today because of the internet and tv, so there is more focus on it, but this has been happening since basically the league started.
Not remotely comparable
Sure they are.  Those are players dictating where they want to or don't want to play and doing what it takes to get it done.  Free agency wasn't really a thing back then, but dictating where you go is absolutely the same thing.
Apples and oranges. You're the only person I've ever seen try and compare them, unsurprisingly
agreed.  these examples are not like what's happening in the NBA since the Cheatles collusion. 

Magic - his option to come out when he chose.  wasn't the first or last player to make that choice.
Moses - Philly had to give up a pretty significant package to get him.  Much like Boston had to do to get KG as well as Ray.  Kobe -- see Edited for profanity.  Please do not do it again.bag Barry that pulled the same stunt on the C's in the 80's.  Kareem, Shaq, Wilt -- no collusion with other players to get to play together.   For that matter, Kareem and Wilt didn't have the freewheeling level of free agency that exists today and required teams to work out a deal.

Re: LeBron finally done?
« Reply #48 on: May 06, 2021, 10:20:43 AM »

Offline Moranis

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I think Moranis has more of a point than you are allowing here.
I disagree. He's intentionally misusing the term "superteam" to try and define it as something else. Using examples of players forcing their way out of teams as comparable to LeBron's collusion with Wade and Bosh, or Durant's collusion with Irving, or whatever modern superteam, is fallacious to me.

The modern understanding of the term is based upon player-to-player recruitment and communication behind the backs of the team. This is not seen through his examples
Moses Malone won the league MVP and then signed a free agent contract with a Sixers team that had the prior league MVP and appeared in the NBA Finals that season.  Back then, the Rockets had matching rights so they worked out a sign and trade and traded him to the Sixers.  How is that not the exact same thing that Durant did?
2021 Historical Draft - 5th Pick - Raptors
PG - Tiny Archibald 73, Don Buse 77, Terrell Brandon 96
SG - Chet Walker 67, Michael Cooper 87, Raja Bell 06
SF - Predrag "Peja" Stojakovic 04, Kiki Vandeweghe 87, Robert Covington 18
PF - Karl Malone 97, Spencer Haywood 73, David West 08
C - Ben Wallace 04, George Mikan 50, Al Jefferson 08

Re: LeBron finally done?
« Reply #49 on: May 06, 2021, 10:44:26 AM »

Offline Moranis

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greatest player of his generation yet couldn't accomplish anything without having to create a 'superteam' to do it.  no respect for him, his whining and the ridiculous superstar treatment he received the moment he stepped on the court as a rookie.  The ridiculous stretches he'd enjoy without being called for a single foul were egregious and blatant show of favoritism by the league.

The only one of his career moments I ever enjoyed was the game where he fouled out against the Celtics in the playoffs and he couldn't get over the fact that the refs dared to foul him out.
Ah yes because the greatest players of all time weren't winning their multiple championships on super teams.
I think where people get nuts about the superteams isn't that the greatest players play on superteams, but how those teams are created. The 80's Celtics, Lakers and Pistons and the 90's Bulls and Rockets and recent teams like San Antonio, Detroit, Dallas and the pre-Durant Warriors were put together more organically. But the Heat, the Cavs, this recent iteration of the Lakers and the Durant Warriors were more about players forcing themselves together to form those teams superteams. I think that's where people get mad. Personally, it doesn't bother me. If in 2-3 years someone like Doncic or Giannis wants to force his way to Boston to form a superteam with the Jays, count me in.
I don't know if those teams were organic.  For example, Magic has said a number of times if the Lakers didn't win the coin flip, he was going to go back to Michigan State and finish college.  He only stayed in the draft because he wanted to play with Kareem.  Moses Malone won a MVP and forced his way out of Houston and ended up on a super team in Philly.  Kareem forced his way out of Milwaukee.  Wilt moved around a bunch.  So did Shaq.  Kobe refused to report to Charlotte so they had to trade him to the Lakers.  This notion that this is some new development just isn't borne in reality.  Everything is way more publicized today because of the internet and tv, so there is more focus on it, but this has been happening since basically the league started.
Not remotely comparable
Sure they are.  Those are players dictating where they want to or don't want to play and doing what it takes to get it done.  Free agency wasn't really a thing back then, but dictating where you go is absolutely the same thing.
Apples and oranges. You're the only person I've ever seen try and compare them, unsurprisingly
agreed.  these examples are not like what's happening in the NBA since the Cheatles collusion. 

Magic - his option to come out when he chose.  wasn't the first or last player to make that choice.
Moses - Philly had to give up a pretty significant package to get him.  Much like Boston had to do to get KG as well as Ray.  Kobe -- see Edited for profanity.  Please do not do it again.bag Barry that pulled the same stunt on the C's in the 80's.  Kareem, Shaq, Wilt -- no collusion with other players to get to play together.   For that matter, Kareem and Wilt didn't have the freewheeling level of free agency that exists today and required teams to work out a deal.
GS and Miami had to give up a bunch of players to make room to do what they did.  And Caldwell Jones and the Cavs future draft pick (it did end up at 3) is not a significant package.  At least not for what you'd expect the 28 year old reigning league MVP to get in a trade.  GS had to give up Barnes, Bogut, Speights, Fezeli, Barbosa, Rush, and Varejao.  So that is 2 starters and a good chunk of their rotation to make the space to sign Durant.  Every team would do it, but it wasn't like they didn't have to make some moves. 

The Heat gave up a lot more for Lebron and Bosh then most people realize.  They not only sign and traded for Lebron and Bosh, giving up a 2011, 2013, 2016 1st round picks, removing protections on a pick owed to Toronto (so it conveyed giving them the 5th pick in 2011), multiple 2nd round picks, etc, but they also had to move on from recent #2 pick Beasley (traded for 2 2nd rounders), traded Cook and a 2010 1st for a 2010 2nd rounder (so another 1st gone), Richardson, JO, and Wright were all sent packing.  In other words, Miami decimated their roster and gave up every future 1st rounder they could (they even gave Cleveland swap rights on one pick, which obviously wasn't exercised) to create the room to sign the guys.  Again every team would do that, but again it wasn't like they just added the two guys to the existing roster.  It just didn't happen that way.

Unlike the defending EC champion Sixers who merely signed Malone in free agency and because back then teams could match, worked out a trade with the Rockets where they gave up a 32 year old part time starter and a future draft pick from a bad team in what would be a terrible draft outside of Sampson (ironically Houston ended up with Sampson with their own pick and not the Cavs pick which was 3rd and Rodney McCray).

To not equate what the Sixers did in the summer of 82 to what has happened recently is quite simply a fallacy. 

More recently, Kobe absolutely 100% refused to report to Charlotte and demanded to be traded to the Lakers, who had just signed Shaq in free agency away from the Magic.  Now I get Kobe was an unproven high school draftee, but he absolutely dictated where he wanted to play and made it happen.  Of course Shaq and Kobe won 3 titles, but couldn't make it work so away went Shaq to go play with Wade and win a title in Miami. 

Pau Gasol demands a trade out of Memphis and miraculously ends up in LA with Kobe to win 2 titles.  Hmm. 

Kareem demands a trade out of Milwaukee with NY and LA on his list of preferred destinations (also perhaps Washington).  Ends up with the Lakers.  Obviously not a super team, but a player that absolutely dictated where he wanted to go. 

The internet, cell phones, etc. makes communication a lot easier today than back then, but this notion that players haven't been doing this since the dawn of the game is just a fallacy.  This has gone on since the league was created and will continue to go on until the league fails.
2021 Historical Draft - 5th Pick - Raptors
PG - Tiny Archibald 73, Don Buse 77, Terrell Brandon 96
SG - Chet Walker 67, Michael Cooper 87, Raja Bell 06
SF - Predrag "Peja" Stojakovic 04, Kiki Vandeweghe 87, Robert Covington 18
PF - Karl Malone 97, Spencer Haywood 73, David West 08
C - Ben Wallace 04, George Mikan 50, Al Jefferson 08

Re: LeBron finally done?
« Reply #50 on: May 06, 2021, 11:09:19 AM »

Offline Kernewek

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Kareem demands a trade out of Milwaukee with NY and LA on his list of preferred destinations (also perhaps Washington).  Ends up with the Lakers.  Obviously not a super team, but a player that absolutely dictated where he wanted to go. 

The internet, cell phones, etc. makes communication a lot easier today than back then, but this notion that players haven't been doing this since the dawn of the game is just a fallacy.  This has gone on since the league was created and will continue to go on until the league fails.
Agreed with all of it but trimmed for brevity.

More within Celtic history, Pierce famously vetoed a trade to send him to the Blazers in '05 and Kevin Garnett wasn't going to commit to us for more than a rental before we brought Ray Allen onboard.
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But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man—for precisely the same reasons.

Re: LeBron finally done?
« Reply #51 on: May 06, 2021, 11:32:30 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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greatest player of his generation yet couldn't accomplish anything without having to create a 'superteam' to do it.  no respect for him, his whining and the ridiculous superstar treatment he received the moment he stepped on the court as a rookie.  The ridiculous stretches he'd enjoy without being called for a single foul were egregious and blatant show of favoritism by the league.

The only one of his career moments I ever enjoyed was the game where he fouled out against the Celtics in the playoffs and he couldn't get over the fact that the refs dared to foul him out.
Ah yes because the greatest players of all time weren't winning their multiple championships on super teams.
I think where people get nuts about the superteams isn't that the greatest players play on superteams, but how those teams are created. The 80's Celtics, Lakers and Pistons and the 90's Bulls and Rockets and recent teams like San Antonio, Detroit, Dallas and the pre-Durant Warriors were put together more organically. But the Heat, the Cavs, this recent iteration of the Lakers and the Durant Warriors were more about players forcing themselves together to form those teams superteams. I think that's where people get mad. Personally, it doesn't bother me. If in 2-3 years someone like Doncic or Giannis wants to force his way to Boston to form a superteam with the Jays, count me in.
I don't know if those teams were organic.  For example, Magic has said a number of times if the Lakers didn't win the coin flip, he was going to go back to Michigan State and finish college.  He only stayed in the draft because he wanted to play with Kareem.  Moses Malone won a MVP and forced his way out of Houston and ended up on a super team in Philly.  Kareem forced his way out of Milwaukee.  Wilt moved around a bunch.  So did Shaq.  Kobe refused to report to Charlotte so they had to trade him to the Lakers.  This notion that this is some new development just isn't borne in reality.  Everything is way more publicized today because of the internet and tv, so there is more focus on it, but this has been happening since basically the league started.
Not remotely comparable
Sure they are.  Those are players dictating where they want to or don't want to play and doing what it takes to get it done.  Free agency wasn't really a thing back then, but dictating where you go is absolutely the same thing.
Apples and oranges. You're the only person I've ever seen try and compare them, unsurprisingly
agreed.  these examples are not like what's happening in the NBA since the Cheatles collusion. 

Magic - his option to come out when he chose.  wasn't the first or last player to make that choice.
Moses - Philly had to give up a pretty significant package to get him.  Much like Boston had to do to get KG as well as Ray.  Kobe -- see Edited for profanity.  Please do not do it again.bag Barry that pulled the same stunt on the C's in the 80's.  Kareem, Shaq, Wilt -- no collusion with other players to get to play together.   For that matter, Kareem and Wilt didn't have the freewheeling level of free agency that exists today and required teams to work out a deal.
GS and Miami had to give up a bunch of players to make room to do what they did.  And Caldwell Jones and the Cavs future draft pick (it did end up at 3) is not a significant package.  At least not for what you'd expect the 28 year old reigning league MVP to get in a trade.  GS had to give up Barnes, Bogut, Speights, Fezeli, Barbosa, Rush, and Varejao.  So that is 2 starters and a good chunk of their rotation to make the space to sign Durant.  Every team would do it, but it wasn't like they didn't have to make some moves. 

The Heat gave up a lot more for Lebron and Bosh then most people realize.  They not only sign and traded for Lebron and Bosh, giving up a 2011, 2013, 2016 1st round picks, removing protections on a pick owed to Toronto (so it conveyed giving them the 5th pick in 2011), multiple 2nd round picks, etc, but they also had to move on from recent #2 pick Beasley (traded for 2 2nd rounders), traded Cook and a 2010 1st for a 2010 2nd rounder (so another 1st gone), Richardson, JO, and Wright were all sent packing.  In other words, Miami decimated their roster and gave up every future 1st rounder they could (they even gave Cleveland swap rights on one pick, which obviously wasn't exercised) to create the room to sign the guys.  Again every team would do that, but again it wasn't like they just added the two guys to the existing roster.  It just didn't happen that way.

Unlike the defending EC champion Sixers who merely signed Malone in free agency and because back then teams could match, worked out a trade with the Rockets where they gave up a 32 year old part time starter and a future draft pick from a bad team in what would be a terrible draft outside of Sampson (ironically Houston ended up with Sampson with their own pick and not the Cavs pick which was 3rd and Rodney McCray).

To not equate what the Sixers did in the summer of 82 to what has happened recently is quite simply a fallacy. 

More recently, Kobe absolutely 100% refused to report to Charlotte and demanded to be traded to the Lakers, who had just signed Shaq in free agency away from the Magic.  Now I get Kobe was an unproven high school draftee, but he absolutely dictated where he wanted to play and made it happen.  Of course Shaq and Kobe won 3 titles, but couldn't make it work so away went Shaq to go play with Wade and win a title in Miami. 

Pau Gasol demands a trade out of Memphis and miraculously ends up in LA with Kobe to win 2 titles.  Hmm. 

Kareem demands a trade out of Milwaukee with NY and LA on his list of preferred destinations (also perhaps Washington).  Ends up with the Lakers.  Obviously not a super team, but a player that absolutely dictated where he wanted to go. 

The internet, cell phones, etc. makes communication a lot easier today than back then, but this notion that players haven't been doing this since the dawn of the game is just a fallacy.  This has gone on since the league was created and will continue to go on until the league fails.
you're still comparing apples to oranges.  none of your examples equates to the player collusion going on since the Cheatles. 

Re: LeBron finally done?
« Reply #52 on: May 06, 2021, 12:02:39 PM »

Online PhoSita

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If in 2-3 years someone like Doncic or Giannis wants to force his way to Boston to form a superteam with the Jays, count me in.

Sure but you know that if stars force their way anywhere to create a superteam they're not going to Boston to do it. 

If Tatum and Giannis decide they want to play together, for example, they'll find some warm weather / big market city with a team ready to clear space for them that summer, and they'll jointly force their way to that team.

Whether it's likely to happen in Boston or not is irrelevant to me. I am simply saying if it did happen in Boston I wouldn't get all crazy about how it happened. The important thing to me is that the team got better, not how the team was constructed to get better.


The point is that it's not an option that is realistically open to the Bostons of the world, let alone the Sacramentos, the Utahs, the Minnesotas, etc.

That's what bothers me so much about it.
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Re: LeBron finally done?
« Reply #53 on: May 06, 2021, 03:01:10 PM »

Offline Moranis

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greatest player of his generation yet couldn't accomplish anything without having to create a 'superteam' to do it.  no respect for him, his whining and the ridiculous superstar treatment he received the moment he stepped on the court as a rookie.  The ridiculous stretches he'd enjoy without being called for a single foul were egregious and blatant show of favoritism by the league.

The only one of his career moments I ever enjoyed was the game where he fouled out against the Celtics in the playoffs and he couldn't get over the fact that the refs dared to foul him out.
Ah yes because the greatest players of all time weren't winning their multiple championships on super teams.
I think where people get nuts about the superteams isn't that the greatest players play on superteams, but how those teams are created. The 80's Celtics, Lakers and Pistons and the 90's Bulls and Rockets and recent teams like San Antonio, Detroit, Dallas and the pre-Durant Warriors were put together more organically. But the Heat, the Cavs, this recent iteration of the Lakers and the Durant Warriors were more about players forcing themselves together to form those teams superteams. I think that's where people get mad. Personally, it doesn't bother me. If in 2-3 years someone like Doncic or Giannis wants to force his way to Boston to form a superteam with the Jays, count me in.
I don't know if those teams were organic.  For example, Magic has said a number of times if the Lakers didn't win the coin flip, he was going to go back to Michigan State and finish college.  He only stayed in the draft because he wanted to play with Kareem.  Moses Malone won a MVP and forced his way out of Houston and ended up on a super team in Philly.  Kareem forced his way out of Milwaukee.  Wilt moved around a bunch.  So did Shaq.  Kobe refused to report to Charlotte so they had to trade him to the Lakers.  This notion that this is some new development just isn't borne in reality.  Everything is way more publicized today because of the internet and tv, so there is more focus on it, but this has been happening since basically the league started.
Not remotely comparable
Sure they are.  Those are players dictating where they want to or don't want to play and doing what it takes to get it done.  Free agency wasn't really a thing back then, but dictating where you go is absolutely the same thing.
Apples and oranges. You're the only person I've ever seen try and compare them, unsurprisingly
agreed.  these examples are not like what's happening in the NBA since the Cheatles collusion. 

Magic - his option to come out when he chose.  wasn't the first or last player to make that choice.
Moses - Philly had to give up a pretty significant package to get him.  Much like Boston had to do to get KG as well as Ray.  Kobe -- see Edited for profanity.  Please do not do it again.bag Barry that pulled the same stunt on the C's in the 80's.  Kareem, Shaq, Wilt -- no collusion with other players to get to play together.   For that matter, Kareem and Wilt didn't have the freewheeling level of free agency that exists today and required teams to work out a deal.
GS and Miami had to give up a bunch of players to make room to do what they did.  And Caldwell Jones and the Cavs future draft pick (it did end up at 3) is not a significant package.  At least not for what you'd expect the 28 year old reigning league MVP to get in a trade.  GS had to give up Barnes, Bogut, Speights, Fezeli, Barbosa, Rush, and Varejao.  So that is 2 starters and a good chunk of their rotation to make the space to sign Durant.  Every team would do it, but it wasn't like they didn't have to make some moves. 

The Heat gave up a lot more for Lebron and Bosh then most people realize.  They not only sign and traded for Lebron and Bosh, giving up a 2011, 2013, 2016 1st round picks, removing protections on a pick owed to Toronto (so it conveyed giving them the 5th pick in 2011), multiple 2nd round picks, etc, but they also had to move on from recent #2 pick Beasley (traded for 2 2nd rounders), traded Cook and a 2010 1st for a 2010 2nd rounder (so another 1st gone), Richardson, JO, and Wright were all sent packing.  In other words, Miami decimated their roster and gave up every future 1st rounder they could (they even gave Cleveland swap rights on one pick, which obviously wasn't exercised) to create the room to sign the guys.  Again every team would do that, but again it wasn't like they just added the two guys to the existing roster.  It just didn't happen that way.

Unlike the defending EC champion Sixers who merely signed Malone in free agency and because back then teams could match, worked out a trade with the Rockets where they gave up a 32 year old part time starter and a future draft pick from a bad team in what would be a terrible draft outside of Sampson (ironically Houston ended up with Sampson with their own pick and not the Cavs pick which was 3rd and Rodney McCray).

To not equate what the Sixers did in the summer of 82 to what has happened recently is quite simply a fallacy. 

More recently, Kobe absolutely 100% refused to report to Charlotte and demanded to be traded to the Lakers, who had just signed Shaq in free agency away from the Magic.  Now I get Kobe was an unproven high school draftee, but he absolutely dictated where he wanted to play and made it happen.  Of course Shaq and Kobe won 3 titles, but couldn't make it work so away went Shaq to go play with Wade and win a title in Miami. 

Pau Gasol demands a trade out of Memphis and miraculously ends up in LA with Kobe to win 2 titles.  Hmm. 

Kareem demands a trade out of Milwaukee with NY and LA on his list of preferred destinations (also perhaps Washington).  Ends up with the Lakers.  Obviously not a super team, but a player that absolutely dictated where he wanted to go. 

The internet, cell phones, etc. makes communication a lot easier today than back then, but this notion that players haven't been doing this since the dawn of the game is just a fallacy.  This has gone on since the league was created and will continue to go on until the league fails.
you're still comparing apples to oranges.  none of your examples equates to the player collusion going on since the Cheatles.
So you think Moses Malone didn't talk to Dr. J?  If you believe that, I've got a bridge to sell you.  It is in Brooklyn.  How much will you give me for it? 

This stuff has happened since the beginning of the league, and will continue to happen until there is no more league.  It is just way easier to do today and way easier for people to find out about it.
2021 Historical Draft - 5th Pick - Raptors
PG - Tiny Archibald 73, Don Buse 77, Terrell Brandon 96
SG - Chet Walker 67, Michael Cooper 87, Raja Bell 06
SF - Predrag "Peja" Stojakovic 04, Kiki Vandeweghe 87, Robert Covington 18
PF - Karl Malone 97, Spencer Haywood 73, David West 08
C - Ben Wallace 04, George Mikan 50, Al Jefferson 08

Re: LeBron finally done?
« Reply #54 on: May 06, 2021, 03:52:21 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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The mental gymnastics going on in this thread to say three in their prime, in their 20s, superstars signing together in free agency was not unique is baffling.

Re: LeBron finally done?
« Reply #55 on: May 06, 2021, 06:59:41 PM »

Offline MattyIce

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The mental gymnastics going on in this thread to say three in their prime, in their 20s, superstars signing together in free agency was not unique is baffling.

yup, comically

Re: LeBron finally done?
« Reply #56 on: May 06, 2021, 10:23:11 PM »

Offline Moranis

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The mental gymnastics going on in this thread to say three in their prime, in their 20s, superstars signing together in free agency was not unique is baffling.

yup, comically
Ah yes because Tracy McGrady and Grant Hill didn't communicate before they signed in Orlando together.  Yup.  I'm sure, they just both randomly out of the blue decided to go to Orlando at the same time.  And I'm also sure that those reports of Hill and McGrady recruiting Duncan, and Duncan basically telling the Magic he was coming, were just complete nonsense and a total fabrication. I mean it has to be because great players have never left their teams and decided to team up before Lebron went to Miami. 

I guess we just ignore history when it suits our arguments.

If Hill doesn't get hurt (and certainly if they would have actually landed TD), then the Magic might very well have won titles. Heck we even have McGrady pulling the Heat press conference with this gem of a quote.

Quote
"Once Grant and I get here, this will definitely be the city. The East is locked up. If Duncan comes here, it will be scary.[...]

"It will be unfair to the league if all three of us come here. We have the East. We'll be playing the Lakers for years."

And Moses to Philly was absolutely the same thing as Durant to the Warriors.  I mean the facts are almost identical (well except for the part about the Sixers eliminating Moses from the playoffs). 

Free agency is a newer development so it is hard to find exact comparisons before basically the 90's to the modern era of player movement, but even in the older times, we saw similar things happen.  Because it quite simply is human nature.
2021 Historical Draft - 5th Pick - Raptors
PG - Tiny Archibald 73, Don Buse 77, Terrell Brandon 96
SG - Chet Walker 67, Michael Cooper 87, Raja Bell 06
SF - Predrag "Peja" Stojakovic 04, Kiki Vandeweghe 87, Robert Covington 18
PF - Karl Malone 97, Spencer Haywood 73, David West 08
C - Ben Wallace 04, George Mikan 50, Al Jefferson 08

Re: LeBron finally done?
« Reply #57 on: May 06, 2021, 10:56:17 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Re: LeBron finally done?
« Reply #58 on: May 06, 2021, 11:12:31 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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The mental gymnastics going on in this thread to say three in their prime, in their 20s, superstars signing together in free agency was not unique is baffling.

yup, comically
Ah yes because Tracy McGrady and Grant Hill didn't communicate before they signed in Orlando together.  Yup.  I'm sure, they just both randomly out of the blue decided to go to Orlando at the same time.  And I'm also sure that those reports of Hill and McGrady recruiting Duncan, and Duncan basically telling the Magic he was coming, were just complete nonsense and a total fabrication. I mean it has to be because great players have never left their teams and decided to team up before Lebron went to Miami. 

I guess we just ignore history when it suits our arguments.

If Hill doesn't get hurt (and certainly if they would have actually landed TD), then the Magic might very well have won titles. Heck we even have McGrady pulling the Heat press conference with this gem of a quote.

Quote
"Once Grant and I get here, this will definitely be the city. The East is locked up. If Duncan comes here, it will be scary.[...]

"It will be unfair to the league if all three of us come here. We have the East. We'll be playing the Lakers for years."

And Moses to Philly was absolutely the same thing as Durant to the Warriors.  I mean the facts are almost identical (well except for the part about the Sixers eliminating Moses from the playoffs). 

Free agency is a newer development so it is hard to find exact comparisons before basically the 90's to the modern era of player movement, but even in the older times, we saw similar things happen.  Because it quite simply is human nature.

Is this actually a serious post or parody? Honestly asking. Duncan didn’t sign there so this is very strange if you are serious to use as an example.

Re: LeBron finally done?
« Reply #59 on: May 06, 2021, 11:38:26 PM »

Offline Moranis

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The mental gymnastics going on in this thread to say three in their prime, in their 20s, superstars signing together in free agency was not unique is baffling.

yup, comically
Ah yes because Tracy McGrady and Grant Hill didn't communicate before they signed in Orlando together.  Yup.  I'm sure, they just both randomly out of the blue decided to go to Orlando at the same time.  And I'm also sure that those reports of Hill and McGrady recruiting Duncan, and Duncan basically telling the Magic he was coming, were just complete nonsense and a total fabrication. I mean it has to be because great players have never left their teams and decided to team up before Lebron went to Miami. 

I guess we just ignore history when it suits our arguments.

If Hill doesn't get hurt (and certainly if they would have actually landed TD), then the Magic might very well have won titles. Heck we even have McGrady pulling the Heat press conference with this gem of a quote.

Quote
"Once Grant and I get here, this will definitely be the city. The East is locked up. If Duncan comes here, it will be scary.[...]

"It will be unfair to the league if all three of us come here. We have the East. We'll be playing the Lakers for years."

And Moses to Philly was absolutely the same thing as Durant to the Warriors.  I mean the facts are almost identical (well except for the part about the Sixers eliminating Moses from the playoffs). 

Free agency is a newer development so it is hard to find exact comparisons before basically the 90's to the modern era of player movement, but even in the older times, we saw similar things happen.  Because it quite simply is human nature.

Is this actually a serious post or parody? Honestly asking. Duncan didn’t sign there so this is very strange if you are serious to use as an example.
Why is it strange? Hill, McGrady, and Duncan all discussed playing together and signing on the same team in free agency.  At the last minute, Pop convinced Duncan to stay, but it was absolutely discussed among 3 young, in their prime, superstars.  But as you and others seem to suggest that never happened because the first time it happened was 2010.  So apparently Hill and McGrady didn't actually sign with the Magic, nor did they discuss it with Duncan.
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