I tend to agree, but aren't we supposed to follow the SCIENCE?
Are you suggesting vaccinated people should ignore the FDA/CDC guidance and seek booster shots?
Or the natural immunity just lasts longer than the vaccine immunity, and it is only a matter of time before those that have natural immunity start to really get sick again. That is probably the most likely since Pfizer has even said it starts seeing antibodies diminish at around 4 months. Which is why everyone should get vaccinated with regular boosters.
There certainly appears to be some level of natural immunity, but it also clearly is not a bar to getting it again and it seems to fade over time. Which is why everyone should get vaccinated and with regular boosters because covid thus far has appeared to be an illness that any immunity developed is not permanent and fades over time. Whether you get it naturally or through the vaccine it doesn't seem to matter as you can get it multiple times. That makes covid different than many illnesses which you cannot get twice, but it certainly isn't uncommon for illness as there are all kinds of illnesses that you can't develop immunity for.
Except a lot of people, like say Lamar Jackson, have in fact gotten Covid twice without getting the vaccine. If natural immunity worked, then why do people like Lamar Jackson get it twice. You know a guy in his 20's that is about as strong a physical specimen as any human on the planet.
Your interpretation is correct, but I don't want you to misunderstand how I'm using that assessment. I'm using it in two ways. One is a way to look at the critical factors between serious illness/death. Looking at it this way, you can see there is quite literally a bigger difference between life and death than the vaccine alone provides. We are not in complete control of this difference (or the many subdifferences), but they do exist and we can understand them and utilize our knowledge of them. Secondly, it is a way of understanding the thought process of people who are unvaccinated which is useful in forming a strategy to best address a diverse population.
I would agree that vaccination is the best way out of the pandemic if the vaccines sterilized against the Delta variant (for example) and did not have waning efficacy over time. Since they do, the vaccinated population that doesn't experience breakthrough cases simply delay their vulnerability period. At that point, they are chasing the variant with booster shots and venturing into uncharted territory (but look at Israel and now NY for clues), in both risk and benefit. Maybe the third shot has few risks and many benefits. But ultimately it will still be natural immunity that gets us through the pandemic as a whole. That's why I think the vaccines are a useful tool. We can try to minimize the damage while our population gets natural herd immunity. An unvaccinated population actually helps us get there, counterintuitively. I'd also like to see more focus on immediate outpatient protocol for all infected individuals, both vaccinated and unvaccinated.
I don't think the highlighted premise is supported by Science, at least not in the opinion of Dr. Scott Gottlieb, former head of the FDA. His premise is actually just the opposite, that people with natural immunity are likely to need a vaccine at some point.
Now it should be noted that Gottlieb is on the board of Pfizer and would have an interest in selling more vaccines but I suspect that the science supporting his statements is sound. I would be very surprised if someone with his reputation would go on TV and make this up.
We don't have enough ICUs and Ventilators to obtain "herd immunity" through natural infection in any case, unless you spread it out over 100 years or something like that. That is a long time to not have kids in school or otherwise having social distance practices.
People who previously were infected with Covid-19 should eventually get vaccinated against the disease because their immunity protection will likely wane over time, Dr. Scott Gottlieb told CNBC on Wednesday.
“The immunity conferred by natural infection seems to be robust and seems to be durable. We know it lasts at least six months, probably longer,” the former commissioner of the Food and Drug Administration said on “Squawk Box.”
“My hunch is it’s not going to last in perpetuity. At some point, those individuals are going to need to get vaccinated,” added Gottlieb, who now serves on the board of vaccine maker Pfizer.
A key question remaining about natural immunity is whether having a more severe case of Covid, compared with someone who remained asymptomatic, for example, leads to higher-quality protection.
“With SARS and MERS, we saw people who got more sick ended up having more durable immunity. We don’t know if that’s the case with this SARS-CoV-2 virus, but it might be,” Gottlieb said, referring to two other types of coronaviruses — severe acute respiratory syndrome and Middle East respiratory syndrome — that caused outbreaks in multiple countries.
Did you capitalize Science to describe Gottlieb's hunch? Lol.
What we can conclude is those who have been infected within the past year don't require a vaccine bc they have better protection than the vaccinated.
Biden's mandate should not include those who were already infected. They don't need it. Lots of others in the world do. Follow science not hunches.
Do you actually think that natural immunity isn't real? I know you have a schtick to maintain here but I find it hard to believe you are staking that position in good faith. Because you and your ancestors would be long dead if the immune system wasn't as sophisticated and adaptable as it is. I hope you appreciate that fact.
Immunity isn't a magical force field. It is a complicated set of mechanisms that learns from prior infections and dampens the impact of future infections of the same or similar type.
That's why vaccinated and naturally immune people alike are continuing to be infected. But the chance of severe illness and death is greatly reduced. This isn't controversial.
Compare the list of people having COVID twice (subtract false positives) to breakout cases among the vaccinated.
Also, there isn't stand alone evidence that natural immunity wanes. That's assumed based on cases where people have been infected twice. And I believe we've yet to see a severe case from one of those. We do see deaths and serious illness (on the rise) in vaccinated breakouts. In good faith, tell me there's not a massive difference there.
If you got the Pfizer shot more than 6 months ago, it’s probably good advice. The FDA made its decision about what was best for the world as a whole (I.e., getting the vaccine to as many people as possible), rather than what’s best for individual patients.
I'm vaxed(Moderna) and will get a booster when available. But you suggest staying informed and making a decision. If we agree that's great. If we disagree, does that necessarily make one of us an idiot?
The science says get the booster. The bureaucrats say not to.
If we agree that's great. If we disagree, does that necessarily make one of us an idiot?
It depends on what we’re talking about. By way of example:
Is climate change happening? Yes. Disagreement = idiot
Is mankind contributing to climate change? Yes. Disagreement = idiot
What policies should we enact to mitigate climate change? Reasonable minds can disagree. There may be idiots in the conversation, but there are both legitimate and fringe views on both sides.
An example of this: I just read about a bar / restaurant that kicks people out for being masked. That’s idiocy.
Those arguing that vaccines don’t lessen risk or spread overall are idiots.
Those who are pregnant / prone to blood clots / making decisions for their children who want to wait for additional data? Not idiots.