Poll

Would it be an Epic Failure

Yes.
11 (19.3%)
No. Still think he can get it done.
46 (80.7%)

Total Members Voted: 57

Author Topic: Poll: If DA can't Land AD, Epic Failure  (Read 11023 times)

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Re: Poll: If DA can't Land AD, Epic Failure
« Reply #45 on: May 22, 2019, 02:36:11 PM »

Offline Monkhouse

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How good is AD anyway.

I dunno 23.7 PPG, 10.5 RPG, 2.1 APG, and 1.4 SPG/2.4 BPG career life time.

Sounds like a loser to me.

Also people talk about his team that featured 2014-2015, but that team was never going to contend.. They were ranked 29th in pace per game, and 22nd in defensive rating... They were never going to win the championship, let's be real..

The best players AD played with was Holiday, Gordon, DMC, and Rondo. DMC didn't even have that much of an effect in the playoffs due to injuries, Rondo was already past his prime, and Gordon somehow went from being a bonafide superstar to literally turning his career around. It doesn't change the fact his team has never ever been built around AD.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2019, 02:41:40 PM by Monkhouse »
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Re: Poll: If DA can't Land AD, Epic Failure
« Reply #46 on: May 22, 2019, 02:38:35 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Some thought that us getting "only" the 5th pick in the 2007 draft was the end-all...some of us thought either Durant or Oden or bust.....

We got Uncle Jeff with that pick, and Danny promptly packaged him with Big Al and a few others for this dude named KG...

Ray followed.

We all know how that turned out....some disappointments but MANY, MANY pleasant memories....

Don't count Danny Ainge out - no matter WHAT happens the next couple of months.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2019, 02:44:27 PM by GreenFaith1819 »

Re: Poll: If DA can't Land AD, Epic Failure
« Reply #47 on: May 22, 2019, 03:25:00 PM »

Offline Chris22

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Well, not just Davis.  If we lose Kyrie for nothing, and thus don't get Davis, then that will be bad.

If the team can resign Kyrie then DA still has plenty of options to balance the roster.  I'd shop Tatum or Brown or both for a better fit.

Why is that bad? We have five first round picks this year and next and our team will be better without Kyrie.
It's certainly complicated but I don't completely disagree that the team could be better without Kyrie.  I would not say it's likely, but not impossible.

But the other thing I think I know is that a team without Kyrie or Davis is not a contender; not even close.  And, that team has really no way forward either.  The picks we have this year aren't worth very much to us or any other team mostly because the odds of getting a good starter with any of them are not that good.  We could get lucky but that's about it.

I disagree.

Five first round draft picks and tons of cap space in 2021, plus our young guys. I actually like that option better than spending a hundred million on sad sack Kyrie who laid down like a dog in the playoffs.
So you prefer to sit out for a couple of years and hope that these middling draft picks will turn into something and then wait for cap space (around the time Jaylen and Tatum) will need to be re-upped?  And then you need to hope that Jaylen (who I don't see as a star) and Tatum (who might be just like Kyrie in terms of his game) will blossom?

See, that is simply too much gambling and wishing for my taste.

Everything is a gamble. I would rather use the tons of cap space to sign someone who can actually bring us a championship. In two years, Kyrie was injured for the first playoffs and sucked in the other.

Re: Poll: If DA can't Land AD, Epic Failure
« Reply #48 on: May 22, 2019, 03:26:50 PM »

Offline Chris22

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If we are going to get Davis, I prefer Davis without Kyrie.

I think we can put together a better team without Kyrie.

Re: Poll: If DA can't Land AD, Epic Failure
« Reply #49 on: May 22, 2019, 03:54:53 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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Some thought that us getting "only" the 5th pick in the 2007 draft was the end-all...some of us thought either Durant or Oden or bust.....

We got Uncle Jeff with that pick, and Danny promptly packaged him with Big Al and a few others for this dude named KG...

Ray followed.

We all know how that turned out....some disappointments but MANY, MANY pleasant memories....

Don't count Danny Ainge out - no matter WHAT happens the next couple of months.
That's not quite right.  Green was traded directly for Ray Allen.  And that, as I recall, happened before KG agreed to be traded to the Celts.

Re: Poll: If DA can't Land AD, Epic Failure
« Reply #50 on: May 22, 2019, 03:57:45 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Some thought that us getting "only" the 5th pick in the 2007 draft was the end-all...some of us thought either Durant or Oden or bust.....

We got Uncle Jeff with that pick, and Danny promptly packaged him with Big Al and a few others for this dude named KG...

Ray followed.

We all know how that turned out....some disappointments but MANY, MANY pleasant memories....

Don't count Danny Ainge out - no matter WHAT happens the next couple of months.
That's not quite right.  Green was traded directly for Ray Allen.  And that, as I recall, happened before KG agreed to be traded to the Celts.

Good catch, thx

Re: Poll: If DA can't Land AD, Epic Failure
« Reply #51 on: May 22, 2019, 04:03:43 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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Well, not just Davis.  If we lose Kyrie for nothing, and thus don't get Davis, then that will be bad.

If the team can resign Kyrie then DA still has plenty of options to balance the roster.  I'd shop Tatum or Brown or both for a better fit.

Why is that bad? We have five first round picks this year and next and our team will be better without Kyrie.
It's certainly complicated but I don't completely disagree that the team could be better without Kyrie.  I would not say it's likely, but not impossible.

But the other thing I think I know is that a team without Kyrie or Davis is not a contender; not even close.  And, that team has really no way forward either.  The picks we have this year aren't worth very much to us or any other team mostly because the odds of getting a good starter with any of them are not that good.  We could get lucky but that's about it.

I disagree.

Five first round draft picks and tons of cap space in 2021, plus our young guys. I actually like that option better than spending a hundred million on sad sack Kyrie who laid down like a dog in the playoffs.
So you prefer to sit out for a couple of years and hope that these middling draft picks will turn into something and then wait for cap space (around the time Jaylen and Tatum) will need to be re-upped?  And then you need to hope that Jaylen (who I don't see as a star) and Tatum (who might be just like Kyrie in terms of his game) will blossom?

See, that is simply too much gambling and wishing for my taste.

Everything is a gamble. I would rather use the tons of cap space to sign someone who can actually bring us a championship. In two years, Kyrie was injured for the first playoffs and sucked in the other.
Well of course everything is a gamble.  But some gambles (if that's even the right term?) are bigger than others.  My point is that putting your gamble on those draft picks is a losing proposition from the start.  They will be more Yabu's in those that anything.

But our disagreement is as much about gambles as it is about our opinions of the players involved.  If I can get AD and keep Kyrie, I'm good with it.  Definitely cuts out any waiting period and minimizes the unknown.  But some people want Kyrie gone and (shockingly) don't want AD here.  That's their opinion of course.

On the other end, I don't see as much hope in the remaining pieces as others do.  As I've said many times, Brown isn't a star.  Maybe, somehow, he lucks into an all star game one day but that's the max in my view.  Tatum has question marks.  He's a ball dominant guy that may be difficult to play with.  There is certainly a lot more unknown involved in this scenario.

As for the cap space, not an expert so no idea what cap space we'll even have in a couple of years and would prefer not to rely on that component either.  There are generally more teams with space that stars willing to go into the space.

Re: Poll: If DA can't Land AD, Epic Failure
« Reply #52 on: May 22, 2019, 04:26:38 PM »

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Co-sign droopdog! TP!

Bird in hand over two Yabu in the bush

Re: Poll: If DA can't Land AD, Epic Failure
« Reply #53 on: May 22, 2019, 05:46:52 PM »

Offline Chris22

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Well, not just Davis.  If we lose Kyrie for nothing, and thus don't get Davis, then that will be bad.

If the team can resign Kyrie then DA still has plenty of options to balance the roster.  I'd shop Tatum or Brown or both for a better fit.

Why is that bad? We have five first round picks this year and next and our team will be better without Kyrie.
It's certainly complicated but I don't completely disagree that the team could be better without Kyrie.  I would not say it's likely, but not impossible.

But the other thing I think I know is that a team without Kyrie or Davis is not a contender; not even close.  And, that team has really no way forward either.  The picks we have this year aren't worth very much to us or any other team mostly because the odds of getting a good starter with any of them are not that good.  We could get lucky but that's about it.

I disagree.

Five first round draft picks and tons of cap space in 2021, plus our young guys. I actually like that option better than spending a hundred million on sad sack Kyrie who laid down like a dog in the playoffs.
So you prefer to sit out for a couple of years and hope that these middling draft picks will turn into something and then wait for cap space (around the time Jaylen and Tatum) will need to be re-upped?  And then you need to hope that Jaylen (who I don't see as a star) and Tatum (who might be just like Kyrie in terms of his game) will blossom?

See, that is simply too much gambling and wishing for my taste.

Everything is a gamble. I would rather use the tons of cap space to sign someone who can actually bring us a championship. In two years, Kyrie was injured for the first playoffs and sucked in the other.
Well of course everything is a gamble.  But some gambles (if that's even the right term?) are bigger than others.  My point is that putting your gamble on those draft picks is a losing proposition from the start.  They will be more Yabu's in those that anything.

But our disagreement is as much about gambles as it is about our opinions of the players involved.  If I can get AD and keep Kyrie, I'm good with it.  Definitely cuts out any waiting period and minimizes the unknown.  But some people want Kyrie gone and (shockingly) don't want AD here.  That's their opinion of course.

On the other end, I don't see as much hope in the remaining pieces as others do.  As I've said many times, Brown isn't a star.  Maybe, somehow, he lucks into an all star game one day but that's the max in my view.  Tatum has question marks.  He's a ball dominant guy that may be difficult to play with.  There is certainly a lot more unknown involved in this scenario.

As for the cap space, not an expert so no idea what cap space we'll even have in a couple of years and would prefer not to rely on that component either.  There are generally more teams with space that stars willing to go into the space.

Here's the bottom line...Kyrie is not bringing us a championship. There are only a handful of players that will bring a championship. If we give Kyrie 100 million, we won't be able to sign one of those players down the road.

Re: Poll: If DA can't Land AD, Epic Failure
« Reply #54 on: May 22, 2019, 05:52:52 PM »

Offline Monkhouse

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Well, not just Davis.  If we lose Kyrie for nothing, and thus don't get Davis, then that will be bad.

If the team can resign Kyrie then DA still has plenty of options to balance the roster.  I'd shop Tatum or Brown or both for a better fit.

Why is that bad? We have five first round picks this year and next and our team will be better without Kyrie.
It's certainly complicated but I don't completely disagree that the team could be better without Kyrie.  I would not say it's likely, but not impossible.

But the other thing I think I know is that a team without Kyrie or Davis is not a contender; not even close.  And, that team has really no way forward either.  The picks we have this year aren't worth very much to us or any other team mostly because the odds of getting a good starter with any of them are not that good.  We could get lucky but that's about it.

I disagree.

Five first round draft picks and tons of cap space in 2021, plus our young guys. I actually like that option better than spending a hundred million on sad sack Kyrie who laid down like a dog in the playoffs.
So you prefer to sit out for a couple of years and hope that these middling draft picks will turn into something and then wait for cap space (around the time Jaylen and Tatum) will need to be re-upped?  And then you need to hope that Jaylen (who I don't see as a star) and Tatum (who might be just like Kyrie in terms of his game) will blossom?

See, that is simply too much gambling and wishing for my taste.

Everything is a gamble. I would rather use the tons of cap space to sign someone who can actually bring us a championship. In two years, Kyrie was injured for the first playoffs and sucked in the other.
Well of course everything is a gamble.  But some gambles (if that's even the right term?) are bigger than others.  My point is that putting your gamble on those draft picks is a losing proposition from the start.  They will be more Yabu's in those that anything.

But our disagreement is as much about gambles as it is about our opinions of the players involved.  If I can get AD and keep Kyrie, I'm good with it.  Definitely cuts out any waiting period and minimizes the unknown.  But some people want Kyrie gone and (shockingly) don't want AD here.  That's their opinion of course.

On the other end, I don't see as much hope in the remaining pieces as others do.  As I've said many times, Brown isn't a star.  Maybe, somehow, he lucks into an all star game one day but that's the max in my view.  Tatum has question marks.  He's a ball dominant guy that may be difficult to play with.  There is certainly a lot more unknown involved in this scenario.

As for the cap space, not an expert so no idea what cap space we'll even have in a couple of years and would prefer not to rely on that component either.  There are generally more teams with space that stars willing to go into the space.

Here's the bottom line...Kyrie is not bringing us a championship. There are only a handful of players that will bring a championship. If we give Kyrie 100 million, we won't be able to sign one of those players down the road.

Like who?

EDIT:

Actually I'm not even going to bother.

It's clear that you already have your mind set on believing in La-La land. Believe all you want that 3 late first round picks, and virtually like barely any cap space will help us create a team that can win a championship.

It's amazing that people still think Tatum/Brown can become a superstar tandem/duo.
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Can't define how I be dropping these mockeries."

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It's based on your perspective, quite simply
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Re: Poll: If DA can't Land AD, Epic Failure
« Reply #55 on: May 22, 2019, 06:05:01 PM »

Online BitterJim

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If we are going to get Davis, I prefer Davis without Kyrie.

I think we can put together a better team without Kyrie.

How? Unless you think that the team is better without Kyrie (which I think has been discussed in enough threads already), I don't see any possible moves that would leave us better than keeping Kyrie
I'm bitter.

Re: Poll: If DA can't Land AD, Epic Failure
« Reply #56 on: May 22, 2019, 06:40:21 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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If we are going to get Davis, I prefer Davis without Kyrie.

I think we can put together a better team without Kyrie.

How? Unless you think that the team is better without Kyrie (which I think has been discussed in enough threads already), I don't see any possible moves that would leave us better than keeping Kyrie

If the 2017-2018 Celtics playoff squad had Davis

how far do you think they would have went?

Re: Poll: If DA can't Land AD, Epic Failure
« Reply #57 on: May 22, 2019, 06:52:52 PM »

Offline td450

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If we are going to get Davis, I prefer Davis without Kyrie.

I think we can put together a better team without Kyrie.

How? Unless you think that the team is better without Kyrie (which I think has been discussed in enough threads already), I don't see any possible moves that would leave us better than keeping Kyrie

The question is which combination is more likely to make Davis resign with us if we make the trade?

The best possible case for all involved is if Kyrie stayed, created good chemistry with Davis, the coach and his other teammates and became a main reason he stayed.

The worst possible case for all involved is if Kyrie stayed, created poor chemistry with Davis, the coach and his other teammates and became a main reason he left.

Which is more likely? I think its reasonable to think its a 50/50 proposition at best it works out.

Re: Poll: If DA can't Land AD, Epic Failure
« Reply #58 on: May 22, 2019, 07:04:36 PM »

Online BitterJim

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If we are going to get Davis, I prefer Davis without Kyrie.

I think we can put together a better team without Kyrie.

How? Unless you think that the team is better without Kyrie (which I think has been discussed in enough threads already), I don't see any possible moves that would leave us better than keeping Kyrie

If the 2017-2018 Celtics playoff squad had Davis

how far do you think they would have went?

They might have beaten Lebron, but they would have been swept by the Warriors

And in case you missed it, I was asking how the team would be better without Kyrie if we added AD. Whether or not we would have made it out of last season's unbelievably weak East isn't relevant
I'm bitter.

Re: Poll: If DA can't Land AD, Epic Failure
« Reply #59 on: May 22, 2019, 07:05:37 PM »

Online BitterJim

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If we are going to get Davis, I prefer Davis without Kyrie.

I think we can put together a better team without Kyrie.

How? Unless you think that the team is better without Kyrie (which I think has been discussed in enough threads already), I don't see any possible moves that would leave us better than keeping Kyrie

The question is which combination is more likely to make Davis resign with us if we make the trade?

The best possible case for all involved is if Kyrie stayed, created good chemistry with Davis, the coach and his other teammates and became a main reason he stayed.

The worst possible case for all involved is if Kyrie stayed, created poor chemistry with Davis, the coach and his other teammates and became a main reason he left.

Which is more likely? I think its reasonable to think its a 50/50 proposition at best it works out.

If Kyrie re-signs and AD decides he doesn't like playing with him, we would have the option to trade Kyrie at the deadline. If that's the worst case scenario, sign me up
I'm bitter.