CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: footey on November 06, 2017, 10:54:22 AM
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ESPN power rankings has Celts ranked 3rd, behind GSW and HOU.
Fair? Personally, I could see us ahead of Houston at the moment, obviously have no problem being ranked behind GSW, who are playing better than their slow start.
What do you think?
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/21265048/nba-power-rankings-our-expert-panel-unveils-rankings-week-4
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Who would have thought after Hayward injury and going 0-2 we would be this high already?
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Im drinking the green Cool Aid ...
Boston #1
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Rockets have undoubtedly played well, but should not be ahead of Boston. We have a longer winning streak, a better overall record, had better competition this week, better point differential, etc.
I’m fine with the Warriors at #1, but Houston should not be #2.
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Rockets have undoubtedly played well, but should not be ahead of Boston. We have a longer winning streak, a better overall record, had better competition this week, better point differential, etc.
I’m fine with the Warriors at #1, but Houston should not be #2.
They need someone to prop up as GSW's 'rival' and potentially upset-er in the West, and we just made OKC seem a little less imposing on Friday night, so I guess Houston is the choice.
Frankly, I think the Celtics should be #1. They have the best record and have done the best of anyone so far this season. Sure, GSW is a better team, but are we just going to ignore the actual results of what's happening this year? Why even do power rankings at all then?
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Rockets have undoubtedly played well, but should not be ahead of Boston. We have a longer winning streak, a better overall record, had better competition this week, better point differential, etc.
I’m fine with the Warriors at #1, but Houston should not be #2.
NBA.com puts us at number 2 behind Golden State, which I think is fair.
http://www.nba.com/powerrankings (http://www.nba.com/powerrankings)
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Rockets have undoubtedly played well, but should not be ahead of Boston. We have a longer winning streak, a better overall record, had better competition this week, better point differential, etc.
I’m fine with the Warriors at #1, but Houston should not be #2.
They need someone to prop up as GSW's 'rival' and potentially upset-er in the West, and we just made OKC seem a little less imposing on Friday night, so I guess Houston is the choice.
Frankly, I think the Celtics should be #1. They have the best record and have done the best of anyone so far this season. Sure, GSW is a better team, but are we just going to ignore the actual results of what's happening this year? Why even do power rankings at all then?
Agreed - Power Rankings are usually some combination of record, presume strength, and current performance. So if GSW drops, like, 3 in a row, they won't plummet. They'll drop no further than like 5 or 6 because we all know they're really really good and that's probably a blip... but they will drop, because their power ranking is less powerful.
If a team is 8-2, has the best record in the league, and has advanced stats and quality wins to back that up... where's the harm in saying yeah Boston is the tops on this week's power rankings.
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Celts are 1st in point differential, record, and defense. 15th in offense.
I think you've got to rank them at least 2nd based on what they've done through 10 games.
The Warriors are the best offense by a country mile, with the second best point differential. I think it's fair to rank them first.
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Celts are 1st in point differential, record, and defense. 15th in offense.
I think you've got to rank them at least 2nd based on what they've done through 10 games.
The Warriors are the best offense by a country mile, with the second best point differential. I think it's fair to rank them first.
Yeah, because everyone knows offense is more important than defense, right??
Yes, I'm being sarcastic!!
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It’s pretty amazing considering we don’t have Hayward.
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Celts are 1st in point differential, record, and defense. 15th in offense.
I think you've got to rank them at least 2nd based on what they've done through 10 games.
The Warriors are the best offense by a country mile, with the second best point differential. I think it's fair to rank them first.
Yeah, because everyone knows offense is more important than defense, right??
Yes, I'm being sarcastic!!
No, but the Warriors are dominating on offense to a greater degree than the Celts are dominating on defense. They're 10 points ahead of the next best team.
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Personally, I have no problem if these power rankings are a monthly thing but its a weekly ranking based on performance and record and perhaps strength of opponents beatrn during the week so imo it eally shoild be Boston first then GS...its pretty silly to go on a 7 game winning streak holding your opponents under 95 points and yet gets ranked only 3rd...absurd.
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I have no problem with the ranking of 2 at nba.com or 3 at espn.com. The Celtics and Houston are both hot and there is only a half game between them. Golden State is the best team in the league by far and deserves the number 1 spot.
Now if Boston goes undefeated again this week, which the should, and improves their offense while maintaining their defense, then I think next week a number 2 ranking should be warranted.
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The only rankings that matter are the ones at the end of the season. that's when being #1 matters
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Celts are 1st in point differential, record, and defense. 15th in offense.
I think you've got to rank them at least 2nd based on what they've done through 10 games.
The Warriors are the best offense by a country mile, with the second best point differential. I think it's fair to rank them first.
Yeah, because everyone knows offense is more important than defense, right??
Yes, I'm being sarcastic!!
No, but the Warriors are dominating on offense to a greater degree than the Celts are dominating on defense. They're 10 points ahead of the next best team.
Golden State is only around 6 points better than the second highest scoring team. The Celtics are around 4 points better defensively than the second best team. The point differential per game is small, but Boston gets the nod at #1 over Golden State.
I hope Boston keeps up this winning streak before they go into that Golden State game. Because if they are, I want to see Golden State take their best shot. I want to see how Boston measures up with them, with them both playing at their best.
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James Harden walks every single time he makes a move.
The NBA is a joke.
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Rockets have undoubtedly played well, but should not be ahead of Boston. We have a longer winning streak, a better overall record, had better competition this week, better point differential, etc.
I’m fine with the Warriors at #1, but Houston should not be #2.
Agreed. Houston (i.e., Harden) have notoriously choked in the playoffs, too. It seems very early to have high expectations for them, though I admittedly having watched a game yet.
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Celts are 1st in point differential, record, and defense. 15th in offense.
I think you've got to rank them at least 2nd based on what they've done through 10 games.
The Warriors are the best offense by a country mile, with the second best point differential. I think it's fair to rank them first.
Yeah, because everyone knows offense is more important than defense, right??
Yes, I'm being sarcastic!!
In the modern NBA offense is far more important than defense.
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LOL, 2nd or 3rd who cares? To me this thing is just for fun and is an estimate. What really matters is at the end of the season, do we hang up banner 18?
For the Celtics to be ranked as high as 3rd after the Hayward injury at this point in the season. Wow i'm just so proud of how our guys have stepped up in his absence. It's really a great thing to see. Some people are even starting to complain that the Celtics are winning too much! That's a good thing!
A great time to be a C's fan, to watch this team grow and get better right before our eyes! Gotta tip my hat to Danny Ainge as well, he took some risks this year but they look to have paid off!!
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James Harden walks every single time he makes a move.
The NBA is a joke.
It's only a walk now if you pump fake and then dribble.
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Celts are 1st in point differential, record, and defense. 15th in offense.
I think you've got to rank them at least 2nd based on what they've done through 10 games.
The Warriors are the best offense by a country mile, with the second best point differential. I think it's fair to rank them first.
Yeah, because everyone knows offense is more important than defense, right??
Yes, I'm being sarcastic!!
In the modern NBA offense is far more important than defense.
That’s what all the “experts” say. The same ones who said we would be regress defensively because we lost Crowder and Avery Bradley.
Kind of a joke.
Celtics are changing the template as we speak, making defense the template for excellence.
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Celts are 1st in point differential, record, and defense. 15th in offense.
I think you've got to rank them at least 2nd based on what they've done through 10 games.
The Warriors are the best offense by a country mile, with the second best point differential. I think it's fair to rank them first.
Yeah, because everyone knows offense is more important than defense, right??
Yes, I'm being sarcastic!!
In the modern NBA offense is far more important than defense.
That’s what all the “experts” say. The same ones who said we would be regress defensively because we lost Crowder and Avery Bradley.
Kind of a joke.
Celtics are changing the template as we speak, making defense the template for excellence.
That is just nonsense. If you can't score you won't win in the modern game. And I'm not talking about winning some regular season games, I'm talking about winning championships. You have to be able to score and score a lot and score quickly to win titles. Gone are the days of 89-88 games. Sure if you are a great offense and have a great defense it is obviously better, but if you could only pick one, you would pick offense every single time and without hesitation.
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Celts are 1st in point differential, record, and defense. 15th in offense.
I think you've got to rank them at least 2nd based on what they've done through 10 games.
The Warriors are the best offense by a country mile, with the second best point differential. I think it's fair to rank them first.
Yeah, because everyone knows offense is more important than defense, right??
Yes, I'm being sarcastic!!
In the modern NBA offense is far more important than defense.
Also what you seem to overlook is that the Warriors’ dominance last year is because they play so well on both sides of the ball. To suggest that the team that averages the most points is the best is a bit absurd.
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Celts are 1st in point differential, record, and defense. 15th in offense.
I think you've got to rank them at least 2nd based on what they've done through 10 games.
The Warriors are the best offense by a country mile, with the second best point differential. I think it's fair to rank them first.
Yeah, because everyone knows offense is more important than defense, right??
Yes, I'm being sarcastic!!
In the modern NBA offense is far more important than defense.
That’s what all the “experts” say. The same ones who said we would be regress defensively because we lost Crowder and Avery Bradley.
Kind of a joke.
Celtics are changing the template as we speak, making defense the template for excellence.
That is just nonsense. If you can't score you won't win in the modern game. And I'm not talking about winning some regular season games, I'm talking about winning championships. You have to be able to score and score a lot and score quickly to win titles. Gone are the days of 89-88 games. Sure if you are a great offense and have a great defense it is obviously better, but if you could only pick one, you would pick offense every single time and without hesitation.
Stop twisting my words. As a newly appointed moderator I expect better judgment from you Moranis. Did not say we won’t score, just that we are more focused on defense. Unreal.
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Celts are 1st in point differential, record, and defense. 15th in offense.
I think you've got to rank them at least 2nd based on what they've done through 10 games.
The Warriors are the best offense by a country mile, with the second best point differential. I think it's fair to rank them first.
Yeah, because everyone knows offense is more important than defense, right??
Yes, I'm being sarcastic!!
In the modern NBA offense is far more important than defense.
That’s what all the “experts” say. The same ones who said we would be regress defensively because we lost Crowder and Avery Bradley.
Kind of a joke.
Celtics are changing the template as we speak, making defense the template for excellence.
That is just nonsense. If you can't score you won't win in the modern game. And I'm not talking about winning some regular season games, I'm talking about winning championships. You have to be able to score and score a lot and score quickly to win titles. Gone are the days of 89-88 games. Sure if you are a great offense and have a great defense it is obviously better, but if you could only pick one, you would pick offense every single time and without hesitation.
Red auerbach is rolling over in his grade reading that statement that defense doesn’t matter. Seriously.
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Celts are 1st in point differential, record, and defense. 15th in offense.
I think you've got to rank them at least 2nd based on what they've done through 10 games.
The Warriors are the best offense by a country mile, with the second best point differential. I think it's fair to rank them first.
Yeah, because everyone knows offense is more important than defense, right??
Yes, I'm being sarcastic!!
In the modern NBA offense is far more important than defense.
That’s what all the “experts” say. The same ones who said we would be regress defensively because we lost Crowder and Avery Bradley.
Kind of a joke.
Celtics are changing the template as we speak, making defense the template for excellence.
That is just nonsense. If you can't score you won't win in the modern game. And I'm not talking about winning some regular season games, I'm talking about winning championships. You have to be able to score and score a lot and score quickly to win titles. Gone are the days of 89-88 games. Sure if you are a great offense and have a great defense it is obviously better, but if you could only pick one, you would pick offense every single time and without hesitation.
Red auerbach is rolling over in his grade reading that statement that defense doesn’t matter. Seriously.
No one is saying that defense doesn't matter. He's just saying that offense matters more than defense
And he's right. If you don't have a player that can score at will in the playoffs/at the end of a game, you will not win a Championship. The same isn't true for having an elite defensive player
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Celts are 1st in point differential, record, and defense. 15th in offense.
I think you've got to rank them at least 2nd based on what they've done through 10 games.
The Warriors are the best offense by a country mile, with the second best point differential. I think it's fair to rank them first.
Yeah, because everyone knows offense is more important than defense, right??
Yes, I'm being sarcastic!!
In the modern NBA offense is far more important than defense.
Also what you seem to overlook is that the Warriors’ dominance last year is because they play so well on both sides of the ball. To suggest that the team that averages the most points is the best is a bit absurd.
No one is saying that! You keep making up these random straw men and attributing them to Moranis.
He's saying that elite offense is more important than elite defense, not that defense is irrelevant. A team with a top 5 offense and middle-of-the-pack defense will do better than a team with a top 5 defense and middle-of-the pack offense. Defense still matters, but offense matters more.
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Celts are 1st in point differential, record, and defense. 15th in offense.
I think you've got to rank them at least 2nd based on what they've done through 10 games.
The Warriors are the best offense by a country mile, with the second best point differential. I think it's fair to rank them first.
Yeah, because everyone knows offense is more important than defense, right??
Yes, I'm being sarcastic!!
In the modern NBA offense is far more important than defense.
The Warriors have the best point differential (don’t know why someone earlier said they were #2 in that stat) on top of their best offense, on top of being obviously the best team over the past three years. First is perfectly reasonable for them.
But when it comes to Boston vs. Houston, the Celtics have the better record, the better point differential (by 4 per 100 possessions), the longer win streak (8 vs. a mere 3). It’s power rankings, which are silly clickbait designed to get people debating on the internet (well done, ESPN), but at the same time, they theoretically take into account recent performance more heavily. On top of being the better team over the course of the season (short tho it is), the Celtics are in a different class than the Rockets over the last two weeks. During that period, the Celtics are 7-0 with a +15.9 per 100 possessions. The Rockets are 5-3 with a +6.4 per 100 — the Celtics have been 9.5 points better than the Rockets per 100 possessions over the last two weeks. (Golden State is #1 at 16.7, then Boston, then OKC at 9.2, then Houston). In fact, over that time, the Celtics actually have as good an offense as Houston — both at 108.4 per 100.
The debate should be between Warriors and Celtics, and the Rockets should be in their own debate with other teams over #3. Because that’s the level the Celtics have been playing at the last two weeks — legitimately approaching Warriors-level dominance over other teams. That ESPN has the Rockets higher is simply due to their preconceived notion that Houston is a better team. They may very well ultimately wind up that way, but they have not demonstrated that to date.
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Celts are 1st in point differential, record, and defense. 15th in offense.
I think you've got to rank them at least 2nd based on what they've done through 10 games.
The Warriors are the best offense by a country mile, with the second best point differential. I think it's fair to rank them first.
Yeah, because everyone knows offense is more important than defense, right??
Yes, I'm being sarcastic!!
In the modern NBA offense is far more important than defense.
Also what you seem to overlook is that the Warriors’ dominance last year is because they play so well on both sides of the ball. To suggest that the team that averages the most points is the best is a bit absurd.
No one is saying that! You keep making up these random straw men and attributing them to Moranis.
He's saying that elite offense is more important than elite defense, not that defense is irrelevant. A team with a top 5 offense and middle-of-the-pack defense will do better than a team with a top 5 defense and middle-of-the pack offense. Defense still matters, but offense matters more.
Moranis is more than capable of defending himself without you doing his bidding for him, BJ.
Obviously the team that scores the most points wins the games. My point has been that defense is equally important, if not more important, to winning championships. The vast majority of NBA Championship teams, excelled playing defense. The Warrior teams manage to do both at a very high level.
But just scoring points doesn't get the job done. Ask Paul Westhead's teams. Ask Mike D'Antoni's teams. Having a strong defensive personality is critical.
Having a player on offense who can score at any given moment is a luxury, but does not necessarily get the job done. Lebron, perhaps the prototype for that kind of player, has been to 7 straight Finals, but has lost 4 of them. It can get you to the dance, but does not guaranty championship success.
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If you look at the defensive and offensive ratings of every NBA champion over the last like 30 years their average rankings were virtually identical. Just as often the eventual winner was ranked higher defensively than they were offensively.
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Celts are 1st in point differential, record, and defense. 15th in offense.
I think you've got to rank them at least 2nd based on what they've done through 10 games.
The Warriors are the best offense by a country mile, with the second best point differential. I think it's fair to rank them first.
Yeah, because everyone knows offense is more important than defense, right??
Yes, I'm being sarcastic!!
In the modern NBA offense is far more important than defense.
The Warriors have the best point differential (don’t know why someone earlier said they were #2 in that stat) on top of their best offense, on top of being obviously the best team over the past three years. First is perfectly reasonable for them.
But when it comes to Boston vs. Houston, the Celtics have the better record, the better point differential (by 4 per 100 possessions), the longer win streak (8 vs. a mere 3). It’s power rankings, which are silly clickbait designed to get people debating on the internet (well done, ESPN), but at the same time, they theoretically take into account recent performance more heavily. On top of being the better team over the course of the season (short tho it is), the Celtics are in a different class than the Rockets over the last two weeks. During that period, the Celtics are 7-0 with a +15.9 per 100 possessions. The Rockets are 5-3 with a +6.4 per 100 — the Celtics have been 9.5 points better than the Rockets per 100 possessions over the last two weeks. (Golden State is #1 at 16.7, then Boston, then OKC at 9.2, then Houston). In fact, over that time, the Celtics actually have as good an offense as Houston — both at 108.4 per 100.
The debate should be between Warriors and Celtics, and the Rockets should be in their own debate with other teams over #3. Because that’s the level the Celtics have been playing at the last two weeks — legitimately approaching Warriors-level dominance over other teams. That ESPN has the Rockets higher is simply due to their preconceived notion that Houston is a better team. They may very well ultimately wind up that way, but they have not demonstrated that to date.
I'm not sure what this has to do with my post. I would have Boston 2 based on the season. I was merely commenting on the offense vs. defense question. Offense is more important in the modern NBA. That is the point I was making. Nothing more, nothing less.
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If you look at the defensive and offensive ratings of every NBA champion over the last like 30 years their average rankings were virtually identical. Just as often the eventual winner was ranked higher defensively than they were offensively.
well sure, but why would you go back 30 years when the game has changed so much in the last 10 or so, and especially the last 5. The game is no longer one where the best defense is going to win. It is much more an offensive game now.
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Celts are 1st in point differential, record, and defense. 15th in offense.
I think you've got to rank them at least 2nd based on what they've done through 10 games.
The Warriors are the best offense by a country mile, with the second best point differential. I think it's fair to rank them first.
Yeah, because everyone knows offense is more important than defense, right??
Yes, I'm being sarcastic!!
In the modern NBA offense is far more important than defense.
The Warriors have the best point differential (don’t know why someone earlier said they were #2 in that stat) on top of their best offense, on top of being obviously the best team over the past three years. First is perfectly reasonable for them.
But when it comes to Boston vs. Houston, the Celtics have the better record, the better point differential (by 4 per 100 possessions), the longer win streak (8 vs. a mere 3). It’s power rankings, which are silly clickbait designed to get people debating on the internet (well done, ESPN), but at the same time, they theoretically take into account recent performance more heavily. On top of being the better team over the course of the season (short tho it is), the Celtics are in a different class than the Rockets over the last two weeks. During that period, the Celtics are 7-0 with a +15.9 per 100 possessions. The Rockets are 5-3 with a +6.4 per 100 — the Celtics have been 9.5 points better than the Rockets per 100 possessions over the last two weeks. (Golden State is #1 at 16.7, then Boston, then OKC at 9.2, then Houston). In fact, over that time, the Celtics actually have as good an offense as Houston — both at 108.4 per 100.
The debate should be between Warriors and Celtics, and the Rockets should be in their own debate with other teams over #3. Because that’s the level the Celtics have been playing at the last two weeks — legitimately approaching Warriors-level dominance over other teams. That ESPN has the Rockets higher is simply due to their preconceived notion that Houston is a better team. They may very well ultimately wind up that way, but they have not demonstrated that to date.
I'm not sure what this has to do with my post. I would have Boston 2 based on the season. I was merely commenting on the offense vs. defense question. Offense is more important in the modern NBA. That is the point I was making. Nothing more, nothing less.
Was using it as a redirection point, since the conversation had weirdly steered. Was neither agreeing nor disagreeing with you.
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Celts are 1st in point differential, record, and defense. 15th in offense.
I think you've got to rank them at least 2nd based on what they've done through 10 games.
The Warriors are the best offense by a country mile, with the second best point differential. I think it's fair to rank them first.
Yeah, because everyone knows offense is more important than defense, right??
Yes, I'm being sarcastic!!
In the modern NBA offense is far more important than defense.
That’s what all the “experts” say. The same ones who said we would be regress defensively because we lost Crowder and Avery Bradley.
Kind of a joke.
Celtics are changing the template as we speak, making defense the template for excellence.
That is just nonsense. If you can't score you won't win in the modern game. And I'm not talking about winning some regular season games, I'm talking about winning championships. You have to be able to score and score a lot and score quickly to win titles. Gone are the days of 89-88 games. Sure if you are a great offense and have a great defense it is obviously better, but if you could only pick one, you would pick offense every single time and without hesitation.
Stop twisting my words. As a newly appointed moderator I expect better judgment from you Moranis. Did not say we won’t score, just that we are more focused on defense. Unreal.
never said you did and didn't twist your words at all. frankly your outrage is the only thing shocking here as your unwarranted pot shots.
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I prefer the tidbits that Stein brought with his rankings.
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Celts are 1st in point differential, record, and defense. 15th in offense.
I think you've got to rank them at least 2nd based on what they've done through 10 games.
The Warriors are the best offense by a country mile, with the second best point differential. I think it's fair to rank them first.
Yeah, because everyone knows offense is more important than defense, right??
Yes, I'm being sarcastic!!
In the modern NBA offense is far more important than defense.
That’s what all the “experts” say. The same ones who said we would be regress defensively because we lost Crowder and Avery Bradley.
Kind of a joke.
Celtics are changing the template as we speak, making defense the template for excellence.
That is just nonsense. If you can't score you won't win in the modern game. And I'm not talking about winning some regular season games, I'm talking about winning championships. You have to be able to score and score a lot and score quickly to win titles. Gone are the days of 89-88 games. Sure if you are a great offense and have a great defense it is obviously better, but if you could only pick one, you would pick offense every single time and without hesitation.
Stop twisting my words. As a newly appointed moderator I expect better judgment from you Moranis. Did not say we won’t score, just that we are more focused on defense. Unreal.
never said you did and didn't twist your words at all. frankly your outrage is the only thing shocking here as your unwarranted pot shots.
Whatever.
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I think the team that has one eight in a row should be #1. No one else has come close to that this season.
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Celts are 1st in point differential, record, and defense. 15th in offense.
I think you've got to rank them at least 2nd based on what they've done through 10 games.
The Warriors are the best offense by a country mile, with the second best point differential. I think it's fair to rank them first.
Yeah, because everyone knows offense is more important than defense, right??
Yes, I'm being sarcastic!!
In the modern NBA offense is far more important than defense.
That’s what all the “experts” say. The same ones who said we would be regress defensively because we lost Crowder and Avery Bradley.
Kind of a joke.
Celtics are changing the template as we speak, making defense the template for excellence.
That is just nonsense. If you can't score you won't win in the modern game. And I'm not talking about winning some regular season games, I'm talking about winning championships. You have to be able to score and score a lot and score quickly to win titles. Gone are the days of 89-88 games. Sure if you are a great offense and have a great defense it is obviously better, but if you could only pick one, you would pick offense every single time and without hesitation.
Stop twisting my words. As a newly appointed moderator I expect better judgment from you Moranis. Did not say we won’t score, just that we are more focused on defense. Unreal.
never said you did and didn't twist your words at all. frankly your outrage is the only thing shocking here as your unwarranted pot shots.
You didn't have to say it. You implied it. In response to my assessment that the Celtics were in the process of changing the template, to a defensive oriented team that is successful, you responded, in part, as follows:
"That is just nonsense. If you can't score you won't win in the modern game."
Nowhere did I say that we would ignore scoring. Yet you responded as if I did, in your typical, misleading fashion which is pretty much your MO on this board.
As for "unwarranted pot shots", not sure what you mean. Feel free to elaborate here or IM me.
Thanks.
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If you look at the defensive and offensive ratings of every NBA champion over the last like 30 years their average rankings were virtually identical. Just as often the eventual winner was ranked higher defensively than they were offensively.
well sure, but why would you go back 30 years when the game has changed so much in the last 10 or so, and especially the last 5. The game is no longer one where the best defense is going to win. It is much more an offensive game now.
Ask Cleveland how easy it is to win with a top flight offense and no defense. Boston currently has the best record in the league with the 14th ranked offense and #1 defense.
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NBA title winners the last 10 years.
Offense rank defense rank
08 Boston #10 #1
09 Lakers #3 #5
10 Lakers #11 #6
11 Dallas #8 #7
12 Miami #6 #4
13 Miami #1 #7
14 Spurs #6 #4
15 Warriors #2 #1
16 Cavs #4 #10
17 Warriors #1 #2
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NBA title winners the last 10 years.
Offense rank defense rank
08 Boston #10 #1
09 Lakers #3 #5
10 Lakers #11 #6
11 Dallas #8 #7
12 Miami #6 #4
13 Miami #1 #7
14 Spurs #6 #4
15 Warriors #2 #1
16 Cavs #4 #10
17 Warriors #1 #2
Thanks. That really solidifies the equal importance of defense and offense to win championships.
Now as much as ever.
Too many are misled by the incredible offensive juggernaut that is the Warriors, and seem to forget that they are just as impressive defensively.
TP!!
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NBA title winners the last 10 years.
Offense rank defense rank
08 Boston #10 #1
09 Lakers #3 #5
10 Lakers #11 #6
11 Dallas #8 #7
12 Miami #6 #4
13 Miami #1 #7
14 Spurs #6 #4
15 Warriors #2 #1
16 Cavs #4 #10
17 Warriors #1 #2
Average offense: 5.2
Average defense: 4.7
Gotta aim for top 5 in both categories. C's coming up short on the offensive end so far.
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NBA title winners the last 10 years.
Offense rank defense rank
08 Boston #10 #1
09 Lakers #3 #5
10 Lakers #11 #6
11 Dallas #8 #7
12 Miami #6 #4
13 Miami #1 #7
14 Spurs #6 #4
15 Warriors #2 #1
16 Cavs #4 #10
17 Warriors #1 #2
Average offense: 5.2
Average defense: 4.7
Gotta aim for top 5 in both categories. C's coming up short on the offensive end so far.
Good point.
I doubt we will be a top 5 offensive team with this roster. If we added Hayward, I have little doubt that we would be. The loss of Hayward obviously is being felt far more on the offensive side of the ball than the defensive side.
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They shouldn't be any lower than 3 because they are clearly the best team in the East right now. Can't believe I am saying that but it is true.
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A reminder that ESPN is NY-based, and Boston teams are filtered. Remember those highly deflated footballs.
I saw another power ranking on TV that had the Celtics ranked no.1, FWIW. It's too early to make such comparisons.
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A reminder that ESPN is NY-based, and Boston teams are filtered. Remember those highly deflated footballs.
I saw another power ranking on TV that had the Celtics ranked no.1, FWIW. It's too early to make such comparisons.
Connecticut sometimes feels like NY but is not NY
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I think its fine, Houston vs Celtics is debatable, I'd give more weight to the quality of the opponents they beat.
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New power ranking came out today (link below), and we are still 3rd, behind Warriors and Rockets.
Am not surprised, seeing how well both of those teams played in the past week, and had a tougher schedule than ours.
Still, kind of funny that we our streak is now up to 12, and we did not go up a spot.
The GSW game will settle a lot of this, either way.
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/21351221/nba-power-rankings-our-expert-panel-unveils-rankings-week-5
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It’s based on weekly results . And warriors are dominating other teams. I don’t have a problem with the rankings .
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No problem with the rankings. Celtics are winning undermanned some of these games and personally I doubt they have the firepower to actually win say in the Playoffs scrapping like this. 3rd is real good, especially all things considered.
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http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/21351221/nba-power-rankings-our-expert-panel-unveils-rankings-week-5
Cavs ranked 9. You think IT will help their defense?
"Just how bad has the Cavs' last-place defense been? They allow nearly as many points per 100 possessions as the 2015-16 73-win Warriors scored and are on pace to allow the most 3-pointers per game in a single season. Yet they maintain their top-10 spot due to the greatness of King James"
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Being a 12 game win streak, longest in the NBA this year, should put you in at #1.
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Yup definitely fair.
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It’s based on weekly results . And warriors are dominating other teams. I don’t have a problem with the rankings .
Can you explain?
I thought the weekly results were just one of the factors.
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Power rankings are dumb, subjective ways of measuring teams, but it's pretty ridiculous that they have Houston over us given our impressive streak with our injuries. I'm not too impressed with them, and I think our elite D would cause them problems and cause them to jack up even worse shots than they already take.
Ultimately, I think we're pretty clearly the second best team in the NBA right now. Can't wait until Thursday's game against GS. Hopefully everyone is healthy (besides Gordy) so that we can have a true measurement of where we are in the league. I think we matchup even better with them now than we did last year, and we should really thrive on turning them over and pushing the ball.
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I think the Celtics would lock down the Rockets.
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Power rankings are dumb, subjective ways of measuring teams, but it's pretty ridiculous that they have Houston over us given our impressive streak with our injuries. I'm not too impressed with them, and I think our elite D would cause them problems and cause them to jack up even worse shots than they already take.
Ultimately, I think we're pretty clearly the second best team in the NBA right now. Can't wait until Thursday's game against GS. Hopefully everyone is healthy (besides Gordy) so that we can have a true measurement of where we are in the league. I think we matchup even better with them now than we did last year, and we should really thrive on turning them over and pushing the ball.
you act like Houston doesn't have injury concerns as well. They've also only had 4 players play in all 14 games and like Boston their 2nd best player got hurt in their first game and he hasn't played since. Houston has played a tougher schedule thus far and is 11-3. It certainly isn't crazy to put them ahead of Boston on the season.
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It’s based on weekly results . And warriors are dominating other teams. I don’t have a problem with the rankings .
Can you explain?
I thought the weekly results were just one of the factors.
Hmm maybe ...
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I thought last week's #3 position was fair but now that the streak is up to 12 and the C's are still the best defensive team in the league, I felt like they should've jumped up to #2. Warriors are still #1 because they are just demolishing everyone but I would feel pretty good about a match up with the Rockets as a Celtic fan.
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A reminder that ESPN is NY-based, and Boston teams are filtered. Remember those highly deflated footballs.
I saw another power ranking on TV that had the Celtics ranked no.1, FWIW. It's too early to make such comparisons.
I have one set of power rankings for every visit to the loo (excuse my French).
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Power rankings are dumb, subjective ways of measuring teams, but it's pretty ridiculous that they have Houston over us given our impressive streak with our injuries. I'm not too impressed with them, and I think our elite D would cause them problems and cause them to jack up even worse shots than they already take.
Ultimately, I think we're pretty clearly the second best team in the NBA right now. Can't wait until Thursday's game against GS. Hopefully everyone is healthy (besides Gordy) so that we can have a true measurement of where we are in the league. I think we matchup even better with them now than we did last year, and we should really thrive on turning them over and pushing the ball.
you act like Houston doesn't have injury concerns as well. They've also only had 4 players play in all 14 games and like Boston their 2nd best player got hurt in their first game and he hasn't played since. Houston has played a tougher schedule thus far and is 11-3. It certainly isn't crazy to put them ahead of Boston on the season.
The injury concerns to the top players are quite a bit more severe for Boston than Houston. Not counting Paul or Hayward, our top three (Irving, Al, and Morris - 12 missed games) has missed significantly more games than their top six guys (Harden, Ariza, Gordon, Capela, Anderson, and Williams - 5 missed games).
Adding that to our 12 game win streak, better overall record, and fairly similar strength of schedule, yeah, it's definitely crazy putting them over us.
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We're the 3rd best team so I agree with the ranking. Watch what happens to our #1 ranked defense this Thursday. You guys are honestly taking this too far. Yes, what we're doing in amazing. No, we won't beat Rockers or Warriors. They're in another league.
Put another way: if you had to bet your life savings onThursdays game with no spread, who you taking ?
Can we just enjoy the games, hype up our Young players and agree we'll have a title within 3 years?
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I am perfectly fine staying under the radar as long as possible and hope teams DO NOT take us seriously. Because there will come a time.....and BELIEVE ME.....it will be here sooner than you think that Boston will be at the top again as champions defending that heavyweight belt like GS is doing now. We will have the bullseye on our back and we will have to defend the belt against all on comers. Many teams cannot handle that type of coverage and pressure. BOSTON CAN.
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We're the 3rd best team so I agree with the ranking. Watch what happens to our #1 ranked defense this Thursday. You guys are honestly taking this too far. Yes, what we're doing in amazing. No, we won't beat Rockers or Warriors. They're in another league.
Put another way: if you had to bet your life savings onThursdays game with no spread, who you taking ?
Can we just enjoy the games, hype up our Young players and agree we'll have a title within 3 years?
Last year we beat the Rockets at home and lost by 1 in Houston on an official screw up counting a Bradley 3 as a 2. We got significantly better this year, are on a 12 game winning streak, and have the best record in the league. How exactly is Houston "in another league" than us??
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Power rankings are dumb, subjective ways of measuring teams, but it's pretty ridiculous that they have Houston over us given our impressive streak with our injuries. I'm not too impressed with them, and I think our elite D would cause them problems and cause them to jack up even worse shots than they already take.
Ultimately, I think we're pretty clearly the second best team in the NBA right now. Can't wait until Thursday's game against GS. Hopefully everyone is healthy (besides Gordy) so that we can have a true measurement of where we are in the league. I think we matchup even better with them now than we did last year, and we should really thrive on turning them over and pushing the ball.
you act like Houston doesn't have injury concerns as well. They've also only had 4 players play in all 14 games and like Boston their 2nd best player got hurt in their first game and he hasn't played since. Houston has played a tougher schedule thus far and is 11-3. It certainly isn't crazy to put them ahead of Boston on the season.
The injury concerns to the top players are quite a bit more severe for Boston than Houston. Not counting Paul or Hayward, our top three (Irving, Al, and Morris - 12 missed games) has missed significantly more games than their top six guys (Harden, Ariza, Gordon, Capela, Anderson, and Williams - 5 missed games).
Adding that to our 12 game win streak, better overall record, and fairly similar strength of schedule, yeah, it's definitely crazy putting them over us.
including Morris as a top 4 player is incredibly misleading. I certainly don't think he is our 4th best player even without including Hayward (Al, Kyrie, Brown, Smart, and Tatum are all better than Morris). Al and Kyrie have missed 3 games. That is still more than Harden and Ariza or Harden and Gordon, but isn't some crazy amount either.
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Having watched Houston, and seeing how much we continue to struggle on the offensive end, I think Houston is better than us right now.
Who would guard Hardin? Brown? He'd foul out in the first quarter. Kyrie? Get real. Smart? Maybe for a while.
I love our team, and our streak has been amazing. But I can't help but feel a large dose of luck on the last couple of wins. Our shooting is relatively poor. This is where we miss Hayward the most IMO.
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I thought last week's #3 position was fair but now that the streak is up to 12 and the C's are still the best defensive team in the league, I felt like they should've jumped up to #2. Warriors are still #1 because they are just demolishing everyone but I would feel pretty good about a match up with the Rockets as a Celtic fan.
Ironically, SRS rankings (at basketball-reference.com) had us at #2 a few days ago but at the moment we have slipped to #3 (behind HOU). It is very close though
SRS:
1. GSW 13.68
2. HOU 7.82
3. BOS 7.38
4. TOR 5.19
5. DET 4.88
...
The thing that pushes GSW so far out on top is that their Strength of Schedule rating so far has been significantly higher than the other 4 teams listed there.
SOS:
1. MEM
2. PHI
3. GSW
...
10. TOR
...
19. HOU
20. DET
...
24. BOS
It's still very, very early though. 13-14 games is a pretty tiny sample.
Check back on SRS rankings after about ~20-30 games. They have a pretty good track record of correlating strongly with final season rankings by then.
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Power rankings are dumb, subjective ways of measuring teams, but it's pretty ridiculous that they have Houston over us given our impressive streak with our injuries. I'm not too impressed with them, and I think our elite D would cause them problems and cause them to jack up even worse shots than they already take.
Ultimately, I think we're pretty clearly the second best team in the NBA right now. Can't wait until Thursday's game against GS. Hopefully everyone is healthy (besides Gordy) so that we can have a true measurement of where we are in the league. I think we matchup even better with them now than we did last year, and we should really thrive on turning them over and pushing the ball.
you act like Houston doesn't have injury concerns as well. They've also only had 4 players play in all 14 games and like Boston their 2nd best player got hurt in their first game and he hasn't played since. Houston has played a tougher schedule thus far and is 11-3. It certainly isn't crazy to put them ahead of Boston on the season.
The injury concerns to the top players are quite a bit more severe for Boston than Houston. Not counting Paul or Hayward, our top three (Irving, Al, and Morris - 12 missed games) has missed significantly more games than their top six guys (Harden, Ariza, Gordon, Capela, Anderson, and Williams - 5 missed games).
Adding that to our 12 game win streak, better overall record, and fairly similar strength of schedule, yeah, it's definitely crazy putting them over us.
including Morris as a top 4 player is incredibly misleading. I certainly don't think he is our 4th best player even without including Hayward (Al, Kyrie, Brown, Smart, and Tatum are all better than Morris). Al and Kyrie have missed 3 games. That is still more than Harden and Ariza or Harden and Gordon, but isn't some crazy amount either.
They've missed four (you can't seriously count the 1:50 he played in the Charlotte game).
But, no, Morris is better than those guys. Tatum and Brown will both certainly be better than him in the long run, but once Morris gets back fully healthy and gelled with the team he'll be the third most consistent contributor behind Kyrie and Al. And he's probably the third or fourth best defender on the team behind Smart and Al and possibly Baynes.
It's not misleading at all. If it wasn't for his injury he'd most likely be a full-time starter over Tatum.
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Power rankings are dumb, subjective ways of measuring teams, but it's pretty ridiculous that they have Houston over us given our impressive streak with our injuries. I'm not too impressed with them, and I think our elite D would cause them problems and cause them to jack up even worse shots than they already take.
Ultimately, I think we're pretty clearly the second best team in the NBA right now. Can't wait until Thursday's game against GS. Hopefully everyone is healthy (besides Gordy) so that we can have a true measurement of where we are in the league. I think we matchup even better with them now than we did last year, and we should really thrive on turning them over and pushing the ball.
you act like Houston doesn't have injury concerns as well. They've also only had 4 players play in all 14 games and like Boston their 2nd best player got hurt in their first game and he hasn't played since. Houston has played a tougher schedule thus far and is 11-3. It certainly isn't crazy to put them ahead of Boston on the season.
The injury concerns to the top players are quite a bit more severe for Boston than Houston. Not counting Paul or Hayward, our top three (Irving, Al, and Morris - 12 missed games) has missed significantly more games than their top six guys (Harden, Ariza, Gordon, Capela, Anderson, and Williams - 5 missed games).
Adding that to our 12 game win streak, better overall record, and fairly similar strength of schedule, yeah, it's definitely crazy putting them over us.
including Morris as a top 4 player is incredibly misleading. I certainly don't think he is our 4th best player even without including Hayward (Al, Kyrie, Brown, Smart, and Tatum are all better than Morris). Al and Kyrie have missed 3 games. That is still more than Harden and Ariza or Harden and Gordon, but isn't some crazy amount either.
They've missed four (you can't seriously count the 1:50 he played in the Charlotte game).
But, no, Morris is better than those guys. Tatum and Brown will both certainly be better than him in the long run, but once Morris gets back fully healthy and gelled with the team he'll be the third most consistent contributor behind Kyrie and Al. And he's probably the third or fourth best defender on the team behind Smart and Al and possibly Baynes.
It's not misleading at all. If it wasn't for his injury he'd most likely be a full-time starter over Tatum.
one extra game, oh my. Morris' best season is 14/5/2.5 in 36 mpg. That is a role player, plain and simply. He is not better than Brown. He is not better than Smart. He is not better than Tatum. Morris is a nice player, but if Hayward was here, Tatum, not Morris would be the starting PF (and for the record per minute, the 5 games Morris has played this year would be well above his career best in almost every major category).
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It's still very, very early though. 13-14 games is a pretty tiny sample.
Check back on SRS rankings after about ~20-30 games. They have a pretty good track record of correlating strongly with final season rankings by then.
The rule of thumb I always hear cited among analysts is that at 20 NBA games you have a pretty clear picture of the league for that year and where teams will end up.
Barring meteoric runs like last year's Heat team or monumental collapses like the Pacers when they suddenly turned into a frog. (that frog did still make the ECF again though so I guess they don't violate it after all)
Now I'm trying to think of teams that started out very strong and nose dived without huge injuries...
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Power rankings are dumb, subjective ways of measuring teams, but it's pretty ridiculous that they have Houston over us given our impressive streak with our injuries. I'm not too impressed with them, and I think our elite D would cause them problems and cause them to jack up even worse shots than they already take.
Ultimately, I think we're pretty clearly the second best team in the NBA right now. Can't wait until Thursday's game against GS. Hopefully everyone is healthy (besides Gordy) so that we can have a true measurement of where we are in the league. I think we matchup even better with them now than we did last year, and we should really thrive on turning them over and pushing the ball.
you act like Houston doesn't have injury concerns as well. They've also only had 4 players play in all 14 games and like Boston their 2nd best player got hurt in their first game and he hasn't played since. Houston has played a tougher schedule thus far and is 11-3. It certainly isn't crazy to put them ahead of Boston on the season.
The injury concerns to the top players are quite a bit more severe for Boston than Houston. Not counting Paul or Hayward, our top three (Irving, Al, and Morris - 12 missed games) has missed significantly more games than their top six guys (Harden, Ariza, Gordon, Capela, Anderson, and Williams - 5 missed games).
Adding that to our 12 game win streak, better overall record, and fairly similar strength of schedule, yeah, it's definitely crazy putting them over us.
including Morris as a top 4 player is incredibly misleading. I certainly don't think he is our 4th best player even without including Hayward (Al, Kyrie, Brown, Smart, and Tatum are all better than Morris). Al and Kyrie have missed 3 games. That is still more than Harden and Ariza or Harden and Gordon, but isn't some crazy amount either.
They've missed four (you can't seriously count the 1:50 he played in the Charlotte game).
But, no, Morris is better than those guys. Tatum and Brown will both certainly be better than him in the long run, but once Morris gets back fully healthy and gelled with the team he'll be the third most consistent contributor behind Kyrie and Al. And he's probably the third or fourth best defender on the team behind Smart and Al and possibly Baynes.
It's not misleading at all. If it wasn't for his injury he'd most likely be a full-time starter over Tatum.
one extra game, oh my. Morris' best season is 14/5/2.5 in 36 mpg. That is a role player, plain and simply. He is not better than Brown. He is not better than Smart. He is not better than Tatum. Morris is a nice player, but if Hayward was here, Tatum, not Morris would be the starting PF (and for the record per minute, the 5 games Morris has played this year would be well above his career best in almost every major category).
Yeah, that's just empirically false. Before the season and Morris' injury Brad explicitly stated that Morris would be the starter at the 4 most nights, and he would switch with Baynes depending upon the matchup.
I love Tatum as much as anyone, and he's going to end up being a star. But this is revisionist history to suggest that he would've started from the get-go if Hayward was healthy. That's flat out false.
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Power rankings are dumb, subjective ways of measuring teams, but it's pretty ridiculous that they have Houston over us given our impressive streak with our injuries. I'm not too impressed with them, and I think our elite D would cause them problems and cause them to jack up even worse shots than they already take.
Ultimately, I think we're pretty clearly the second best team in the NBA right now. Can't wait until Thursday's game against GS. Hopefully everyone is healthy (besides Gordy) so that we can have a true measurement of where we are in the league. I think we matchup even better with them now than we did last year, and we should really thrive on turning them over and pushing the ball.
you act like Houston doesn't have injury concerns as well. They've also only had 4 players play in all 14 games and like Boston their 2nd best player got hurt in their first game and he hasn't played since. Houston has played a tougher schedule thus far and is 11-3. It certainly isn't crazy to put them ahead of Boston on the season.
The injury concerns to the top players are quite a bit more severe for Boston than Houston. Not counting Paul or Hayward, our top three (Irving, Al, and Morris - 12 missed games) has missed significantly more games than their top six guys (Harden, Ariza, Gordon, Capela, Anderson, and Williams - 5 missed games).
Adding that to our 12 game win streak, better overall record, and fairly similar strength of schedule, yeah, it's definitely crazy putting them over us.
including Morris as a top 4 player is incredibly misleading. I certainly don't think he is our 4th best player even without including Hayward (Al, Kyrie, Brown, Smart, and Tatum are all better than Morris). Al and Kyrie have missed 3 games. That is still more than Harden and Ariza or Harden and Gordon, but isn't some crazy amount either.
They've missed four (you can't seriously count the 1:50 he played in the Charlotte game).
But, no, Morris is better than those guys. Tatum and Brown will both certainly be better than him in the long run, but once Morris gets back fully healthy and gelled with the team he'll be the third most consistent contributor behind Kyrie and Al. And he's probably the third or fourth best defender on the team behind Smart and Al and possibly Baynes.
It's not misleading at all. If it wasn't for his injury he'd most likely be a full-time starter over Tatum.
one extra game, oh my. Morris' best season is 14/5/2.5 in 36 mpg. That is a role player, plain and simply. He is not better than Brown. He is not better than Smart. He is not better than Tatum. Morris is a nice player, but if Hayward was here, Tatum, not Morris would be the starting PF (and for the record per minute, the 5 games Morris has played this year would be well above his career best in almost every major category).
Yeah, that's just empirically false. Before the season and Morris' injury Brad explicitly stated that Morris would be the starter at the 4 most nights, and he would switch with Baynes depending upon the matchup.
I love Tatum as much as anyone, and he's going to end up being a star. But this is revisionist history to suggest that he would've started from the get-go if Hayward was healthy. That's flat out false.
Except you know Tatum thus far this year has played better than Morris at any time in his career. Tatum is already better than Morris and the gap is only going to get larger.
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Life in general is not fair. Who cares what ESPN has us ranked.
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Life in general is not fair. Who cares what ESPN has us ranked.
No, that's not the way it works in the Brave New World. You're supposed to be offended by those power rankings. Nay, genuinely outraged! Forsooth, the audacity of these chaps!
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What the heck is an espn?
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Lost interest in their stupid analysis of everthing.
All they do is lick Lebron's tail and hype lonzo Ball..
Even if we beat the Warriors this week theyd still rank the Cs lower...so just aint caring at them tbh.
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These rankings are meant to spur conversation - I get that.
For me, though - the only ranking that matters is right around the middle of June.
Boston has an EXCELLENT shot at making it to June the next few years.
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How you like me now ESPN?
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I know there's no sense in putting any stock in these things but the Celtics have to be #1 this week, don't they?
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I know there's no sense in putting any stock in these things but the Celtics have to be #1 this week, don't they?
Which gives them more page clicks?
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I think Houston or the GSW would likely beat us in a 7 game series and we would beat everyone else (except maybe the Spurs with a healthy Kawhi). I don't think that's a crazy statement and I don't put a ton of stock in these lists anyway
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I know there's no sense in putting any stock in these things but the Celtics have to be #1 this week, don't they?
Should be? Sure.
Must? No. Would anyone be shocked if Houston is number 1 hyping the return of Paul?
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The thing is, Power Rankings even though they take future considerations, they've always (or they should be) been heavily weighted by current circumstances. If continuing to win, even beating the best team in the NBA, doesn't give the Celtics some sort of bump in the rankings, then I don't know what to make of them.
Not that this crap has any merit, fun to look at week to week, but nothing else.
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Respect. They are #1.
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/21476052/nba-power-rankings-our-expert-panel-unveils-rankings-week-6
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I think Houston or the GSW would likely beat us in a 7 game series and we would beat everyone else (except maybe the Spurs with a healthy Kawhi). I don't think that's a crazy statement and I don't put a ton of stock in these lists anyway
I just do not get this Houston love over Boston.
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Now this is my rankings:
1. Golden State
2. Boston
3. Cleveland
4. Houston
Cavs get Thomas and Thompson back be hard to beat but have wait to see how Thomas is first..warriors r team to beat..
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Also with Kawhi Leonard out, Spurs r just a good team..OKC has no bench..Toronto is hard to figure out lol
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What do I think? I couldn't care less to what ESPN thinks. I hate ESPN and that includes 99% of their employees.
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Also with Kawhi Leonard out, Spurs r just a good team..OKC has no bench..Toronto is hard to figure out lol
Toronto is largely the same solid team as last year, they've just reworked their offense to take more 3s and less midrange shots and feature their depth more so than Lowry. It seems to be working for them so far overall.
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Respect. They are #1.
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/21476052/nba-power-rankings-our-expert-panel-unveils-rankings-week-6
Kind of have to when you just beat GSW head to head given how these are "snapshot" rankings.
We'll fall once we lose one or two though. (which will eventually happen I think)
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I'd rank us 4th. CLE isn't dead yet. They have serious problems, but they still have Lebron and if they figure out a way to integrate IT and IT is healthy, they're a tough match up for us.
I think Houston projects above us with Paul back. If Paul is injured or a non-factor, I think we're better.
And of course, upset win or not, GSW is still the champ and the best team in the league.
What is most heartening is that we've shown we're not getting humiliated by CLE or anyone else come playoff time. We beat a really good Toronto team without our best player, and then beat the best team in the league while they were on a 7 game winning streak.
We're going to be a tough out come next May unless we're unfortunate with (further) injuries.