Author Topic: Why is there so much hype for KAT? He hasn't won anything  (Read 4420 times)

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Re: Why is there so much hype for KAT? He hasn't won anything
« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2021, 07:14:49 PM »

Offline hodgy03038

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Some CeltsStrong folks want KAT - I want no part of a mentally soft superstar who averages big points & rebounds until it really counts.

I originally loved KAT but the more I've seen the less I like him as a foundational cornerstone, I personally can't remember a team having any type of success around a extremely poor defensive centre. Not only that but he doesn't look like he's ever been in great shape considering how young he is and I don't think you can make the Embiid comparison because Joel has had lots of major injuries that caused him to fluctuate weight.

I think the best possible comparison for KAT would be Moses Malone but that would only relative to his style of play.

If he could carry Moses Malone's sneakers I would want KAT.

Re: Why is there so much hype for KAT? He hasn't won anything
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2021, 07:25:23 PM »

Offline GreenCoffeeBean

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You could say the same about KG in 2007? Except KG was 30ish whereas KAT is still only 25.

Mind you, KG is a HOFer whereas KAT is not, but in terms of ranking of bigs of where KAT is relative to the league in his day? Well, that ranking is very comparable to where KG stood during his time in Minnesota.

He’s elite and in need of a better home. That much is clear. And a change of scenery would help him a lot.

KG was an ejection away from upsetting a Shaq and Kobe team. He practically did it by himself. I used to be high on KAT but he doesn’t seem like a winner.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2021, 07:31:41 PM by GreenCoffeeBean »

Re: Why is there so much hype for KAT? He hasn't won anything
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2021, 07:35:53 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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KG is not the Minnesota comp for KAT. Kevin Love is.

Re: Why is there so much hype for KAT? He hasn't won anything
« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2021, 07:45:23 PM »

Offline Birdman

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Towns had a rough year with his mother and 6 other family dying from Covid.. so I can understand him not playing up to par right now..be tough on anyone
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Re: Why is there so much hype for KAT? He hasn't won anything
« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2021, 07:53:41 PM »

Offline GreenWarrior

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I am not sure "hasn't won anything" is a good criteria. Perhaps it should be "can he win anything?". Personally I think he is soft and does not have a killer instinct like a KG or I hate to say it "Embid". I don't need a "soft" center that can put up numbers during the year but will collapse under pressure. I pass on KAT.

I put a lot of stock in players who are clearly the best player on their team that are able to  a) get them in the playoffs b) have a good showing in the playoffs.

It's why I thought paul pierce was special. He took some crap teams into the playoffs and some times they beat some teams they shouldn't have and some they were tough out for.

I know the west is traditionally a tough conference but it is what it is. KAT's teams haven't even been close and the one good they had didn't they get bounced in the 1st rnd.?

Re: Why is there so much hype for KAT? He hasn't won anything
« Reply #20 on: March 06, 2021, 08:01:11 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Some CeltsStrong folks want KAT - I want no part of a mentally soft superstar who averages big points & rebounds until it really counts.

I originally loved KAT but the more I've seen the less I like him as a foundational cornerstone, I personally can't remember a team having any type of success around a extremely poor defensive centre. Not only that but he doesn't look like he's ever been in great shape considering how young he is and I don't think you can make the Embiid comparison because Joel has had lots of major injuries that caused him to fluctuate weight.

I think the best possible comparison for KAT would be Moses Malone but that would only relative to his style of play.
He has been a solid above average defensive big this season
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PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
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Re: Why is there so much hype for KAT? He hasn't won anything
« Reply #21 on: March 06, 2021, 09:10:22 PM »

Offline Ed Monix

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Some CeltsStrong folks want KAT - I want no part of a mentally soft superstar who averages big points & rebounds until it really counts.

I originally loved KAT but the more I've seen the less I like him as a foundational cornerstone, I personally can't remember a team having any type of success around a extremely poor defensive centre. Not only that but he doesn't look like he's ever been in great shape considering how young he is and I don't think you can make the Embiid comparison because Joel has had lots of major injuries that caused him to fluctuate weight.

I think the best possible comparison for KAT would be Moses Malone but that would only relative to his style of play.
He has been a solid above average defensive big this season

Perhaps you've gotten a decent look at KAT from watching him this season? Because I could be easily be wrong. But the advanced defensive stats say he is still bad. Defensive real plus - minus, KAT ranks 63rd in centres alone, with a -0.30 and in comparison Gobert has a 4.53. Also in overall defensive rating he ranks 418th.

But I must admit it would be hard to get a clear look at his defensive capabilities because he has been surrounded by average to poor defenders essentially his whole NBA career.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2021, 09:19:06 PM by Ed Monix »
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Re: Why is there so much hype for KAT? He hasn't won anything
« Reply #22 on: March 06, 2021, 10:21:42 PM »

Offline Quetzalcoatl

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I watched the Wednesday game versus Charlotte and he did not seem like he cared about defense at all. His eyes lit up like a Christmas tree on offense and he took people off the dribble from the 3 point line for a layup in 3 steps, which was amazing. He was certainly rebound hunting but a lot were inconsequential to the game. But even then he would take plays off on offense too.  Maybe with a good coach?

Re: Why is there so much hype for KAT? He hasn't won anything
« Reply #23 on: March 06, 2021, 10:37:24 PM »

Online Moranis

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The problem with the Wolves defensively is that they have no even above average defenders on the team at all.  KAT actually has the 2nd best DRTG on the Wolves (he also has a positive DBPM and other advanced metrics are ok).  I think he'd be fine defensively if he was on a competent defensive team with solid defenders around him. 

The winning argument is pretty poor for someone that has generally had poor teammates, poor coaching, and awful management.  Even the year they made the playoffs, KAT was still alright in the playoffs.  In fact, Butler performed worse than KAT did in relation to regular vs. post-season performance.  Was Butler not a winner?
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Re: Why is there so much hype for KAT? He hasn't won anything
« Reply #24 on: March 06, 2021, 10:47:10 PM »

Offline Somebody

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Some CeltsStrong folks want KAT - I want no part of a mentally soft superstar who averages big points & rebounds until it really counts.

I originally loved KAT but the more I've seen the less I like him as a foundational cornerstone, I personally can't remember a team having any type of success around a extremely poor defensive centre. Not only that but he doesn't look like he's ever been in great shape considering how young he is and I don't think you can make the Embiid comparison because Joel has had lots of major injuries that caused him to fluctuate weight.

I think the best possible comparison for KAT would be Moses Malone but that would only relative to his style of play.
He has been a solid above average defensive big this season

Perhaps you've gotten a decent look at KAT from watching him this season? Because I could be easily be wrong. But the advanced defensive stats say he is still bad. Defensive real plus - minus, KAT ranks 63rd in centres alone, with a -0.30 and in comparison Gobert has a 4.53. Also in overall defensive rating he ranks 418th.

But I must admit it would be hard to get a clear look at his defensive capabilities because he has been surrounded by average to poor defenders essentially his whole NBA career.
ESPN's RPM has become crap as an advanced plus-minus metric - its original creators left the team and they're using a really wonky way to get the numbers nowadays. KAT ranks decently well in other adjusted plus-minus metrics with a +0.5 rating in DRAPTOR, good for 37th among centres and he has the same rating in D-EPM, ranking in the 67th percentile among all players. It's going to be difficult at assembling a strong defensive unit around him, but he won't be tanking a team on that end at the very least.
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Re: Why is there so much hype for KAT? He hasn't won anything
« Reply #25 on: March 06, 2021, 10:51:11 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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The problem with the Wolves defensively is that they have no even above average defenders on the team at all.  KAT actually has the 2nd best DRTG on the Wolves (he also has a positive DBPM and other advanced metrics are ok).  I think he'd be fine defensively if he was on a competent defensive team with solid defenders around him. 

The winning argument is pretty poor for someone that has generally had poor teammates, poor coaching, and awful management.  Even the year they made the playoffs, KAT was still alright in the playoffs.  In fact, Butler performed worse than KAT did in relation to regular vs. post-season performance.  Was Butler not a winner?

Butler lead that Wolves team to the playoffs. 1st time KAT got a taste

Once Butler wanted to get the heck out. Wolves returned as basement dwellers

They have had Robert Convington and other decent vets etc. didnt matter

I hope Celts dont trade for this dude.  I was really impressed with him in the ncaa. But after he got drafted 1st/max contract.  Plays with little to no edge. Poor leadership. Not in peak shape

Re: Why is there so much hype for KAT? He hasn't won anything
« Reply #26 on: March 06, 2021, 11:52:25 PM »

Online Moranis

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The problem with the Wolves defensively is that they have no even above average defenders on the team at all.  KAT actually has the 2nd best DRTG on the Wolves (he also has a positive DBPM and other advanced metrics are ok).  I think he'd be fine defensively if he was on a competent defensive team with solid defenders around him. 

The winning argument is pretty poor for someone that has generally had poor teammates, poor coaching, and awful management.  Even the year they made the playoffs, KAT was still alright in the playoffs.  In fact, Butler performed worse than KAT did in relation to regular vs. post-season performance.  Was Butler not a winner?

Butler lead that Wolves team to the playoffs. 1st time KAT got a taste

Once Butler wanted to get the heck out. Wolves returned as basement dwellers

They have had Robert Convington and other decent vets etc. didnt matter

I hope Celts dont trade for this dude.  I was really impressed with him in the ncaa. But after he got drafted 1st/max contract.  Plays with little to no edge. Poor leadership. Not in peak shape
Minnesota was on the upswing when they traded for Butler (16 wins before KAT, then to 29 and 31 - and even without LaVine were at 36 wins 2 years ago post-Butler).  Trading for Butler took away their depth and they quite simply didn't even replace what they lost by making the trade when they traded Butler the next season.  And Butler absolutely flamed out of that playoff series.  He was worse than KAT.  How much better would they look right now with LaVine and Markannen?  They then added the wrong PG in Russell and have failed on draft pick after draft pick.  The problem in Minnesota is not Towns, it is literally everything else. 
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Re: Why is there so much hype for KAT? He hasn't won anything
« Reply #27 on: March 07, 2021, 12:21:54 AM »

Offline gouki88

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Some CeltsStrong folks want KAT - I want no part of a mentally soft superstar who averages big points & rebounds until it really counts.

I originally loved KAT but the more I've seen the less I like him as a foundational cornerstone, I personally can't remember a team having any type of success around a extremely poor defensive centre. Not only that but he doesn't look like he's ever been in great shape considering how young he is and I don't think you can make the Embiid comparison because Joel has had lots of major injuries that caused him to fluctuate weight.

I think the best possible comparison for KAT would be Moses Malone but that would only relative to his style of play.
He has been a solid above average defensive big this season

Perhaps you've gotten a decent look at KAT from watching him this season? Because I could be easily be wrong. But the advanced defensive stats say he is still bad. Defensive real plus - minus, KAT ranks 63rd in centres alone, with a -0.30 and in comparison Gobert has a 4.53. Also in overall defensive rating he ranks 418th.

But I must admit it would be hard to get a clear look at his defensive capabilities because he has been surrounded by average to poor defenders essentially his whole NBA career.
ESPN's RPM has become crap as an advanced plus-minus metric - its original creators left the team and they're using a really wonky way to get the numbers nowadays. KAT ranks decently well in other adjusted plus-minus metrics with a +0.5 rating in DRAPTOR, good for 37th among centres and he has the same rating in D-EPM, ranking in the 67th percentile among all players. It's going to be difficult at assembling a strong defensive unit around him, but he won't be tanking a team on that end at the very least.
This is basically what I was going to cite too. He's by no means an elite defender, but he's merely solid.

The real problem of Minny is that all their defensive players are, well, not good
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Why is there so much hype for KAT? He hasn't won anything
« Reply #28 on: March 07, 2021, 02:31:41 AM »

Offline tenn_smoothie

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Comparing KAT to Kevin Garnett ??

Not even in the same universe in terms of intensity, effort and will to win.
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