Paul Westphal: NBA playing styles are too generic thanks to 3 point shot

[mmmmm]

How about a simple rule against N consecutive three point shot attempts?   I.E., let N be 3.  In that case if you take 2 consecutive shots outside the arc (whether you make them or not) then your next shot counts for 2 points, whether it is taken outside or inside the arc.

[Somebody]

I hate the lack of toughness.
I think that has a bigger effect than the increase in 3pt shooting.

What ever happened to muscling players.

Now you only have 2 or 3 guys who are allowed to do it, and they do it dirty.
Just like 2 or 3 guys are allowed to travel all game long.

add to that its easier to launch a 3pter, and if you can make them at 40% that means someone needs to make 2pters at 60% rate to even your production. That has been done far fewer times than someone making over 40% of their 3pt attempts.

   I hear you. There is a lack of toughness. I attribute that specific aspect ( mostly) to the only increased range and skill of the 3 but and the way it is reffed. Not being able to hand check makes a totally different game but it’s actually one time I support. To me hand checking in a pickup game or league game was always a cheap tactic. Not dirty or anything but I looked at it as an admission that you need to use your hands because you can’t move your feet fast enough. It was part of the game but I think if people are being honest it’s almost impossible to referee. How in the world can you judge how much pressure is being put on a guy’s hip as he’s edging by his defender? There will always be complaining about refs but I feel like it’s much less than in the 90’s.
   The other thing is since “the malice in the palace” they’re so afraid these guys will sneeze on someone. Meanwhile players in baseball are praised for leaving the dugout defending their teammates after some coward threw a 90 plus mph fastball at a guy because he admired his previous home run. This totally disgusts me when a pitcher also doesn’t have to bat himself. It’s so dangerous. Hockey players repeatedly throw punches to the face and they let them do it.  But they neuter nba players and don’t even let them talk trash. Every single player worth anything on the court grew up having to deal with trash talk. It’s weird that the best players on the planet now can’t do it or play against it. It’s outlawed in the nba but nba tv still shows highlights of the stuff and has former players talking about it all over the channel with find memories and fun stories.

I am with you on that one.

Hand checking I am happy to see go. It does open the floor for more high flying.

But what kills me in this game:

Defense. These guys are athletes, it pitiful to see them only compete on one side of the court. That bothers me more than anything. no pride.

Toughness: Then no one can be strong, that a penalty now. Shaq in today's rules wouldn't be allowed to do anything he used to. Stockton would be ejected every game. etc

Traveling: All of a sudden, league darlings (Lebron, Giannis, Harden, Westbrook) are allowed to run with the ball

This cracked me up, TP. The image of those guys running with a basketball like it's rugby is hilarious.

[Somebody]

How about a simple rule against N consecutive three point shot attempts?   I.E., let N be 3.  In that case if you take 2 consecutive shots outside the arc (whether you make them or not) then your next shot counts for 2 points, whether it is taken outside or inside the arc.

Eh I don't think it'll solve the root of the problem. What we need to do is find some big men who have the attributes to dominate inside and train them to adapt to the demands of the modern game defensively.

[Who]

I'd be interested to see them crackdown on the dribbling violations and the travels. That would help decrease the advantages offensive players (ball-handlers) have over defenders.

They should try it out in the D-League and see how it would play out.

Give defenders more of a chance.

[Celtics17]

The entire situation can be remedied very easily, make the 3 point shot into a 2.5 point shot. Then in the extra incentive is not there for the long ball like it has been. Instead of geting 50% more points you get only 25 % more. Also, at the end of the games when a team is down by 5 they can get two the old fashioned way, a two poiint shot or two free throws, and then hit a three and the game is tied. As opposed to having to hit two threes to even tie the game.

It may sound funny but it's really just simple math. The stock market use to be expressesd in fractions of numbers and was changed to decimal. The NBA, can adopt the scoring and this simple change will bring the game where it needs to be.

[mmmmm]

How about a simple rule against N consecutive three point shot attempts?   I.E., let N be 3.  In that case if you take 2 consecutive shots outside the arc (whether you make them or not) then your next shot counts for 2 points, whether it is taken outside or inside the arc.

Eh I don't think it'll solve the root of the problem. What we need to do is find some big men who have the attributes to dominate inside and train them to adapt to the demands of the modern game defensively.

That won't happen unless teams have motivation to score 2PT shots more efficiently.

[Moranis]

This strikes me as a bunch of hogwash. 

[footey]

I'd be interested to see them crackdown on the dribbling violations and the travels. That would help decrease the advantages offensive players (ball-handlers) have over defenders.

They should try it out in the D-League and see how it would play out.

Give defenders more of a chance.

I dunno; I hate when they call travel all the time.  Just kills the game flow.

[MichiganAdam]

I hate the lack of toughness.
I think that has a bigger effect than the increase in 3pt shooting.

What ever happened to muscling players.

Now you only have 2 or 3 guys who are allowed to do it, and they do it dirty.
Just like 2 or 3 guys are allowed to travel all game long.

add to that its easier to launch a 3pter, and if you can make them at 40% that means someone needs to make 2pters at 60% rate to even your production. That has been done far fewer times than someone making over 40% of their 3pt attempts.

Mostly Yes but with Caveats.  Rebounds and second chance points are much more likely if you are , you know, in the paint to get them, and fouls with free throws happen at a much higher clip in the paint to both get those points and get the other teams bigs in trouble with fouls.  No player plays with a worse game to watch I think then Harden.  I just hate his style, and I hate the refs let him cheat the way he does.  Horrible.

[fairweatherfan]

The entire situation can be remedied very easily, make the 3 point shot into a 2.5 point shot. Then in the extra incentive is not there for the long ball like it has been. Instead of geting 50% more points you get only 25 % more. Also, at the end of the games when a team is down by 5 they can get two the old fashioned way, a two poiint shot or two free throws, and then hit a three and the game is tied. As opposed to having to hit two threes to even tie the game.

It may sound funny but it's really just simple math. The stock market use to be expressesd in fractions of numbers and was changed to decimal. The NBA, can adopt the scoring and this simple change will bring the game where it needs to be.

I agree that adjusting the relative value is the simplest way to make the game more balanced, even though the final scores would get weird, but how do you handle free throws if you're fouled shooting 3? First two makes are worth a point, and if you make all 3 it's 2.5?

The other thing I think of is: And-1s become a lot more valuable with that scoring system. So late game situations might turn into a lot more contact-seeking.

But it's mostly tradition and the aesthetics of a fractional point against the idea. Problem is those are pretty strong forces.

[Donoghus]

Aesthetically, it looks much different then the games of the 80s/90s.  Certainly much more predicated on the 3 point shot.  But I don't think all the styles are the same  & necessarily cookie cutter.  Even watching how TOR played the Finals v. how GSW played.  There were differences.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

"Things aren't the way they used to be," said every curmudgeon ever.

[Walker Wiggle]

What the league needs to bring back is guys going to the hoop and finishing. When was the last time you saw a drive in a halfcourt set that ended with someone dunking on somebody trying to block their shot?

Change the way charges are officiated. That is, take out of the game the whole thing of stepping in front of a guy and waiting motionless for him to run over you. It will make guys drive to the hoop with much less hesitation, and force defenders to go up in the air and try and challenge at the rim.

Similarly, get rid of the "rule of verticality". This is completely dumb. If you go up in the air vertically, you shouldn't be able to just stick your hands up and make zero effort to block the shot, causing a collision at the rim with no foul call.

Clean this sort of thing up and there will be more guys going to the rim trying to dunk or get a foul called, rather than dancing around the 3-point line. Meanwhile, it will bring back the need for big stud shotblockers rather than savvy guys who are good at standing motionless waiting to be run over.

[Silky]

I hate the lack of toughness.
I think that has a bigger effect than the increase in 3pt shooting.

What ever happened to muscling players.

Now you only have 2 or 3 guys who are allowed to do it, and they do it dirty.
Just like 2 or 3 guys are allowed to travel all game long.

add to that its easier to launch a 3pter, and if you can make them at 40% that means someone needs to make 2pters at 60% rate to even your production. That has been done far fewer times than someone making over 40% of their 3pt attempts.

Mostly Yes but with Caveats.  Rebounds and second chance points are much more likely if you are , you know, in the paint to get them, and fouls with free throws happen at a much higher clip in the paint to both get those points and get the other teams bigs in trouble with fouls.  No player plays with a worse game to watch I think then Harden.  I just hate his style, and I hate the refs let him cheat the way he does.  Horrible.

I despize watching Harden, Hate Demars game, Really dont like how they are starting to treat Giannis, and really hate Lebrons as well.

Travelers, all of them , searching for contact and flailing non stop

[furball]

The solution is just to get rid of the zone defenses and go back to man to man.  This would open up the paint for not just driving to the hoop but also post play.  Now it's too easy to clog the paint and to double team big guys.  Zones also lead to guys being wide open at the three point line as the defenders all sag into the paint.