Is D White More Valuable Than Jrue?

[droopdog7]

Jrue has only played a handful of games with the C’s. White has been on the team for years. It’s going to take time for Holiday to figure things out. I expect him to look much better in the second half of the year.

Exactly this; when White first joined the team, we saw flashes but there were a lot of detractors (remember the whole J Rich conversation?).  Wait until Jrue really gets comfortable.

[jpotter33]

Jrue has only played a handful of games with the C’s. White has been on the team for years. It’s going to take time for Holiday to figure things out. I expect him to look much better in the second half of the year.

Holiday has also looked great for us, especially on the intangible end. Not dissimilar to when White first arrived and was going through his shooting funk. I've been really excited about what Jrue's brought to the team so far.

Now, obviously, neither of them can hold a candle to Josh Richardson, but I think we need more than 20-odd games to see how White and Holiday compare.

You're joking, but honestly I would love Richardson on the C's again. I liked the trade of him to get White, but I was bummed to see him go, as he was having a bounce back year with us. He'd be a perfect bench wing for us and would fit right in with the character of this team.

[jpotter33]

To date this season (19 games), White has been a little better, a little more valuable than Holiday.  But remember how White looked when he first got to the team.  It took him a long time before he was totally comfortable, acclimated, and achieving his full potential.  Based on the last few seasons, not just the last 19 games, I believe Holiday is the better overall player.

I will say that White just seems to keep getting better and better; more and more consistent.  At this point in their relative careers, White may have more ceiling.  Even though Holiday has been the better player the last few seasons to this point, White may be the better player moving forward, if he keep improving the way he has been.

My vote based on the 19 games to date is that they have been comparable.  White has been a little better so far but not enough so to make him definitely the better player or the more valuable player in a longer term sense.

This is where I'm at, as well. I think they're very comparable and excel in different areas that really compliment each other.

One of the big things with White is that I feel like offensively he breaks down the defense from the top point of attack better than Jrue given his better speed, which helps the defense collapse and gets us better looks.

On the other side, for as good as White is defensively Jrue is much more versatile and can play up quite a bit, and his defensive BBIQ is off the charts, which is why Joe has been successful thus far in using him in that "safety" role or as a primary defender against the other team's star player.

I think the biggest thing with both of them is that when playing together with the starting/closing lineup of Jrue, White, JB, JT, and KP, it gives the group a true secondary playmaker/ball-handler that we sorely missed last year. This is especially true with KP showing signs of being a capable passer/playmaker himself this year, which makes that unit virtually impossible to stop.

[liam]

To date this season (19 games), White has been a little better, a little more valuable than Holiday.  But remember how White looked when he first got to the team.  It took him a long time before he was totally comfortable, acclimated, and achieving his full potential.  Based on the last few seasons, not just the last 19 games, I believe Holiday is the better overall player.

I will say that White just seems to keep getting better and better; more and more consistent.  At this point in their relative careers, White may have more ceiling.  Even though Holiday has been the better player the last few seasons to this point, White may be the better player moving forward, if he keep improving the way he has been.

My vote based on the 19 games to date is that they have been comparable.  White has been a little better so far but not enough so to make him definitely the better player or the more valuable player in a longer term sense.

This is where I'm at, as well. I think they're very comparable and excel in different areas that really compliment each other.

One of the big things with White is that I feel like offensively he breaks down the defense from the top point of attack better than Jrue given his better speed, which helps the defense collapse and gets us better looks.

On the other side, for as good as White is defensively Jrue is much more versatile and can play up quite a bit, and his defensive BBIQ is off the charts, which is why Joe has been successful thus far in using him in that "safety" role or as a primary defender against the other team's star player.

I think the biggest thing with both of them is that when playing together with the starting/closing lineup of Jrue, White, JB, JT, and KP, it gives the group a true secondary playmaker/ball-handler that we sorely missed last year. This is especially true with KP showing signs of being a capable passer/playmaker himself this year, which makes that unit virtually impossible to stop.

All five can score one on one. All five can shoot. All five can defend at an elite level.

[PAOBoston]

Jrue has only played a handful of games with the C’s. White has been on the team for years. It’s going to take time for Holiday to figure things out. I expect him to look much better in the second half of the year.

Holiday has also looked great for us, especially on the intangible end. Not dissimilar to when White first arrived and was going through his shooting funk. I've been really excited about what Jrue's brought to the team so far.

Now, obviously, neither of them can hold a candle to Josh Richardson, but I think we need more than 20-odd games to see how White and Holiday compare.

You're joking, but honestly I would love Richardson on the C's again. I liked the trade of him to get White, but I was bummed to see him go, as he was having a bounce back year with us. He'd be a perfect bench wing for us and would fit right in with the character of this team.

Not sure what role Richardson would fulfill on this team tbh. He’s been pretty bad offensively this year for Miami. There’s a reason he’s been on 6 teams in 8 years.

[obnoxiousmime]

"More valuable" would suggest age and contract are in play here, which would favor White with his more attractive deal and younger age. I don't think anyone would dispute that. I will, however, offer some positive words regarding Holiday since this post seems to be suggesting he might be overrated or considered a mild disappointment.

Holiday is a more versatile defender than White. He can more capably guard 1-5 compared to White, because he's bigger and stronger. White can be overpowered in the paint whereas Holiday can hold his own against some of the strongest players in the league. White is more of an nonstop energy guy, able to keep in front or at least pursue and contest from behind. However, he's not as physical as Holiday and he doesn't really disrupt ballhandlers in the same way. I think that's why White has never been great at creating steals, whereas historically that's been a strong suit of Holiday's.

In terms of rebounds, Holiday is also much better, showing a knack for running into the scrum and plucking the ball out of the air or using his body to control space. That might be the best way to describe Holiday's impact as a defender compared to White. I think White is an indefatigable on-ball defender, but he doesn't really "control space" the way Holiday does. When you're facing Holiday, you kind of have to always be aware of where he is and wary of running the action into his "sphere of influence." I just don't think White controls the area where he's residing the way Holiday does, and that makes a huge difference.

On offense, White clearly seems like a better complimentary/off-ball player. However, that's a very different responsibility than being the second option on a team like Holiday has had to do in his career. Holiday has played on teams where he's had to consistently score, while White has had the luxury of not having that burden. Could White average 20ppg? Sure, he has the talent but it's not clear he has the mentality. I think that there's value in Holiday having that experience over someone who has never really had to do it consistently in White.

Holiday is a slower, more methodical player who seems more comfortable throwing his weight around in the paint, whereas White is faster and will try to blow by guys and work his floaters and flip shots. Sometimes, you do need that energy from a White because we already have other guys that sometimes play too slow (Tatum). It does also seem like White is a faster decision-maker compared to Holiday, though some of that could be familiarity with the team. White seems like a better spot shooter, but considering Holiday has been pretty efficient himself the past three years, I wonder if Holiday will eventually start shooting it a little better.

In conclusion, they're both really good players but I just wanted to offer some defense of Holiday over White. There are a lot of things Holiday brings to the table that White isn't really great at.

[scaryjerry]

Voted yes but it’s very close and who cares? Lucky to have them both

[Kernewek]

Jrue has only played a handful of games with the C’s. White has been on the team for years. It’s going to take time for Holiday to figure things out. I expect him to look much better in the second half of the year.

Holiday has also looked great for us, especially on the intangible end. Not dissimilar to when White first arrived and was going through his shooting funk. I've been really excited about what Jrue's brought to the team so far.

Now, obviously, neither of them can hold a candle to Josh Richardson, but I think we need more than 20-odd games to see how White and Holiday compare.

You're joking, but honestly I would love Richardson on the C's again. I liked the trade of him to get White, but I was bummed to see him go, as he was having a bounce back year with us. He'd be a perfect bench wing for us and would fit right in with the character of this team.

100% agree, a “Josh Richardson type” would be great for us this season.