Does Brad Stevens get enough credit?

[KG Living Legend]

Brad can’t be scored any better than ainge if we don’t win a title right? That seems pretty clear to me.

  I score him beget than The Old Danny Ainge he replaced.  Horford for Kemba, Derrick White, A pick for Brogdon then flip him again with Assets into Jrue holiday,  Smart for Porzingis and two firsts.

 He's been on fire. If this team can't get it done the players need to look in the mirror.  Brad has been doing his job.

Who are the best players each GM added? KG, Tatum, Brown, Ray, Rondo, and prime Horford for Danny. Jrue, Derrick White, Porzingis, old Al Horford, and Brogdon for Brad. Danny was in charge of the team for a lot longer and in different situations than Brad so that discrepancy isn't Brad's fault, but it's way too glaring to try and say that Brad has done a better job. The best 2 players listed were brought in by Danny, and there's an argument for all 6 of Danny's best being better than any of Brad's best. Brad has been great, but let's not pretend that Danny never did anything.

 And Bitter Jim I did say Brads been better than Old Ainge. Danny just not willing to trade picks that end up being players like Prichard and Grant Willians, Aaron Nesmith and Romeo Langford. 

 He could have brought in a lot of players that helped but like others have said he's obsessed with "Winning" trades which ultimately caused him to Fail IMO.

[greg683x]

Brad can’t be scored any better than ainge if we don’t win a title right? That seems pretty clear to me.

  I score him beget than The Old Danny Ainge he replaced.  Horford for Kemba, Derrick White, A pick for Brogdon then flip him again with Assets into Jrue holiday,  Smart for Porzingis and two firsts.

 He's been on fire. If this team can't get it done the players need to look in the mirror.  Brad has been doing his job.

Brads job is also to hire a competent head coach.  Joe is Brads guy.  It was pretty clear to a lot of people Joe was in over his head a bit last year.  Brad chose to stick with him bc he believes in him which is admirable but hiring a seasoned vet coach to handle a roster like this is usually the easier path to go.

Needless to say if this team fails and it’s clear coaching and/or philosophy is a big contributor then Brad needs to take a big piece of the blame pie for it

 To be fair Brad first hired Ime who took us to the Finaks in year one before getting caught with his pants down. Certainly an odd situation,  can't really blame Brad for that one.

I don’t blame Brad for the Udoka stuff and having to give the keys to Joe in a pinch was more of a product of the situation.

BUT removing the interim label and fully committing to Joe halfway through the season before seeing how he handled the playoffs was way premature.  He also had an opportunity to wipe the slate clean this off-season and move on but he decided to double down.  All of this is solely on him and no product of the Ime situation

[cman88]

Brad can’t be scored any better than ainge if we don’t win a title right? That seems pretty clear to me.

  I score him beget than The Old Danny Ainge he replaced.  Horford for Kemba, Derrick White, A pick for Brogdon then flip him again with Assets into Jrue holiday,  Smart for Porzingis and two firsts.

 He's been on fire. If this team can't get it done the players need to look in the mirror.  Brad has been doing his job.

Brads job is also to hire a competent head coach.  Joe is Brads guy.  It was pretty clear to a lot of people Joe was in over his head a bit last year.  Brad chose to stick with him bc he believes in him which is admirable but hiring a seasoned vet coach to handle a roster like this is usually the easier path to go.

Needless to say if this team fails and it’s clear coaching and/or philosophy is a big contributor then Brad needs to take a big piece of the blame pie for it

 To be fair Brad first hired Ime who took us to the Finaks in year one before getting caught with his pants down. Certainly an odd situation,  can't really blame Brad for that one.

I don’t blame Brad for the Udoka stuff and having to give the keys to Joe in a pinch was more of a product of the situation.

BUT removing the interim label and fully committing to Joe halfway through the season before seeing how he handled the playoffs was way premature.  He also had an opportunity to wipe the slate clean this off-season and move on but he decided to double down.  All of this is solely on him and no product of the Ime situation

It's fair to question picking Joe over more qualified individuals. And then removing the interim title early. But to blame Brad as "doubling down" seems Abit extreme.

he also went out and surrounded Joe with Cassell, Lee and Van Gundy though this off-season...it's not like he "doubled down!"

Im not saying Joe is great. But what did he do so bad for Brad to have to "wipe the slate clean" the whole "coming out flat" and "not taking your opponent seriously" was an issue for years. Between Brad, Ime and Joe..

If Joe ends up being bad they easily can go to one of those guys.

[cman88]

Brad can’t be scored any better than ainge if we don’t win a title right? That seems pretty clear to me.

  I score him beget than The Old Danny Ainge he replaced.  Horford for Kemba, Derrick White, A pick for Brogdon then flip him again with Assets into Jrue holiday,  Smart for Porzingis and two firsts.

 He's been on fire. If this team can't get it done the players need to look in the mirror.  Brad has been doing his job.

Who are the best players each GM added? KG, Tatum, Brown, Ray, Rondo, and prime Horford for Danny. Jrue, Derrick White, Porzingis, old Al Horford, and Brogdon for Brad. Danny was in charge of the team for a lot longer and in different situations than Brad so that discrepancy isn't Brad's fault, but it's way too glaring to try and say that Brad has done a better job. The best 2 players listed were brought in by Danny, and there's an argument for all 6 of Danny's best being better than any of Brad's best. Brad has been great, but let's not pretend that Danny never did anything.

 And Bitter Jim I did say Brads been better than Old Ainge. Danny just not willing to trade picks that end up being players like Prichard and Grant Willians, Aaron Nesmith and Romeo Langford. 

 He could have brought in a lot of players that helped but like others have said he's obsessed with "Winning" trades which ultimately caused him to Fail IMO.

I think ultimately he became a victim of his own success. In his later years he wanted to "win" every trade or it wasn't happening. He didn't want to part with any assets. I think that reputation of having to "win" also hurt him in negotiations with other teams where they didn't want to be seen as "losing" to Danny ainge.

Sometimes you need to make a trade that benefits both parties.

Does danny do the Holiday or White trades? I'm not too sure. He might do the KP trade because we got the best player in that deal.

[KG Living Legend]

Brad can’t be scored any better than ainge if we don’t win a title right? That seems pretty clear to me.

  I score him beget than The Old Danny Ainge he replaced.  Horford for Kemba, Derrick White, A pick for Brogdon then flip him again with Assets into Jrue holiday,  Smart for Porzingis and two firsts.

 He's been on fire. If this team can't get it done the players need to look in the mirror.  Brad has been doing his job.

Who are the best players each GM added? KG, Tatum, Brown, Ray, Rondo, and prime Horford for Danny. Jrue, Derrick White, Porzingis, old Al Horford, and Brogdon for Brad. Danny was in charge of the team for a lot longer and in different situations than Brad so that discrepancy isn't Brad's fault, but it's way too glaring to try and say that Brad has done a better job. The best 2 players listed were brought in by Danny, and there's an argument for all 6 of Danny's best being better than any of Brad's best. Brad has been great, but let's not pretend that Danny never did anything.

 And Bitter Jim I did say Brads been better than Old Ainge. Danny just not willing to trade picks that end up being players like Prichard and Grant Willians, Aaron Nesmith and Romeo Langford. 

 He could have brought in a lot of players that helped but like others have said he's obsessed with "Winning" trades which ultimately caused him to Fail IMO.

I think ultimately he became a victim of his own success. In his later years he wanted to "win" every trade or it wasn't happening. He didn't want to part with any assets. I think that reputation of having to "win" also hurt him in negotiations with other teams where they didn't want to be seen as "losing" to Danny ainge.

Sometimes you need to make a trade that benefits both parties.

Does danny do the Holiday or White trades? I'm not too sure. He might do the KP trade because we got the best player in that deal.

 Completely agree with this take. Also Danny burned some bridges along the way and some teams just didn't want to trade with him.  Brad's done a better job of keeping the respect of other GMs.

[BitterJim]

Brad can’t be scored any better than ainge if we don’t win a title right? That seems pretty clear to me.

  I score him beget than The Old Danny Ainge he replaced.  Horford for Kemba, Derrick White, A pick for Brogdon then flip him again with Assets into Jrue holiday,  Smart for Porzingis and two firsts.

 He's been on fire. If this team can't get it done the players need to look in the mirror.  Brad has been doing his job.

Who are the best players each GM added? KG, Tatum, Brown, Ray, Rondo, and prime Horford for Danny. Jrue, Derrick White, Porzingis, old Al Horford, and Brogdon for Brad. Danny was in charge of the team for a lot longer and in different situations than Brad so that discrepancy isn't Brad's fault, but it's way too glaring to try and say that Brad has done a better job. The best 2 players listed were brought in by Danny, and there's an argument for all 6 of Danny's best being better than any of Brad's best. Brad has been great, but let's not pretend that Danny never did anything.

 And Bitter Jim I did say Brads been better than Old Ainge. Danny just not willing to trade picks that end up being players like Prichard and Grant Willians, Aaron Nesmith and Romeo Langford. 

 He could have brought in a lot of players that helped but like others have said he's obsessed with "Winning" trades which ultimately caused him to Fail IMO.

I think ultimately he became a victim of his own success. In his later years he wanted to "win" every trade or it wasn't happening. He didn't want to part with any assets. I think that reputation of having to "win" also hurt him in negotiations with other teams where they didn't want to be seen as "losing" to Danny ainge.

Sometimes you need to make a trade that benefits both parties.

Does danny do the Holiday or White trades? I'm not too sure. He might do the KP trade because we got the best player in that deal.

 Completely agree with this take. Also Danny burned some bridges along the way and some teams just didn't want to trade with him.  Brad's done a better job of keeping the respect of other GMs.

Yeah, when's the last time he got a major haul in a trade? 2007 2013 2017 2022? Clearly he's washed.

There's a good point buried in there (that Ainge likely wouldn't make the White trade), but it gets buried in the disproven/unprovable cliches like how Ainge teams wouldn't trade with him or he wouldn't make a trade that he didn't "win". The biggest change from Ainge to Brad hasn't been the trades, which they both seem pretty great at; it's the contract extensions. Danny almost always let young players test RFA instead of extending them (mostly just signing the no-brainer extensions like Rondo, Brown, and Tatum), and while that probably saved us some money/cap space over the years it also led to more young players leaving for nothing. Brad's willingness to make those deals are what allowed us to sign Rob to that deal (and eventually include him in the Jrue trade), and should provide us more flexibility later with contracts like Pritchard's. Ultimately, I think that's going to be even more important as it gets harder to add players when the 2nd apron penalties come into play. I'm not sure if Ainge will/would have adapted to that change

[cman88]

Brad can’t be scored any better than ainge if we don’t win a title right? That seems pretty clear to me.

  I score him beget than The Old Danny Ainge he replaced.  Horford for Kemba, Derrick White, A pick for Brogdon then flip him again with Assets into Jrue holiday,  Smart for Porzingis and two firsts.

 He's been on fire. If this team can't get it done the players need to look in the mirror.  Brad has been doing his job.

Who are the best players each GM added? KG, Tatum, Brown, Ray, Rondo, and prime Horford for Danny. Jrue, Derrick White, Porzingis, old Al Horford, and Brogdon for Brad. Danny was in charge of the team for a lot longer and in different situations than Brad so that discrepancy isn't Brad's fault, but it's way too glaring to try and say that Brad has done a better job. The best 2 players listed were brought in by Danny, and there's an argument for all 6 of Danny's best being better than any of Brad's best. Brad has been great, but let's not pretend that Danny never did anything.

 And Bitter Jim I did say Brads been better than Old Ainge. Danny just not willing to trade picks that end up being players like Prichard and Grant Willians, Aaron Nesmith and Romeo Langford. 

 He could have brought in a lot of players that helped but like others have said he's obsessed with "Winning" trades which ultimately caused him to Fail IMO.

I think ultimately he became a victim of his own success. In his later years he wanted to "win" every trade or it wasn't happening. He didn't want to part with any assets. I think that reputation of having to "win" also hurt him in negotiations with other teams where they didn't want to be seen as "losing" to Danny ainge.

Sometimes you need to make a trade that benefits both parties.

Does danny do the Holiday or White trades? I'm not too sure. He might do the KP trade because we got the best player in that deal.

 Completely agree with this take. Also Danny burned some bridges along the way and some teams just didn't want to trade with him.  Brad's done a better job of keeping the respect of other GMs.

Yeah, when's the last time he got a major haul in a trade? 2007 2013 2017 2022? Clearly he's washed.

There's a good point buried in there (that Ainge likely wouldn't make the White trade), but it gets buried in the disproven/unprovable cliches like how Ainge teams wouldn't trade with him or he wouldn't make a trade that he didn't "win". The biggest change from Ainge to Brad hasn't been the trades, which they both seem pretty great at; it's the contract extensions. Danny almost always let young players test RFA instead of extending them (mostly just signing the no-brainer extensions like Rondo, Brown, and Tatum), and while that probably saved us some money/cap space over the years it also led to more young players leaving for nothing. Brad's willingness to make those deals are what allowed us to sign Rob to that deal (and eventually include him in the Jrue trade), and should provide us more flexibility later with contracts like Pritchard's. Ultimately, I think that's going to be even more important as it gets harder to add players when the 2nd apron penalties come into play. I'm not sure if Ainge will/would have adapted to that change

he's good at getting a major haul. I think the more question is would he be willing to make a trade where he isn't the clear winner. he will make the trade for Kyrie irving where IT4 was cooked, or get a million #1's for Rudy Gobert.

i'm not sure he makes the Derrick white trade or the Brogdon trade or the Jrue holiday trade even...
all those trades we gave up what seemed like alot and both teams won those trades.

on the other hand,  I would trust ainge more than brad to fill out the end of the bench. he always seemed to fill the end with solid vets.

[BitterJim]

Brad can’t be scored any better than ainge if we don’t win a title right? That seems pretty clear to me.

  I score him beget than The Old Danny Ainge he replaced.  Horford for Kemba, Derrick White, A pick for Brogdon then flip him again with Assets into Jrue holiday,  Smart for Porzingis and two firsts.

 He's been on fire. If this team can't get it done the players need to look in the mirror.  Brad has been doing his job.

Who are the best players each GM added? KG, Tatum, Brown, Ray, Rondo, and prime Horford for Danny. Jrue, Derrick White, Porzingis, old Al Horford, and Brogdon for Brad. Danny was in charge of the team for a lot longer and in different situations than Brad so that discrepancy isn't Brad's fault, but it's way too glaring to try and say that Brad has done a better job. The best 2 players listed were brought in by Danny, and there's an argument for all 6 of Danny's best being better than any of Brad's best. Brad has been great, but let's not pretend that Danny never did anything.

 And Bitter Jim I did say Brads been better than Old Ainge. Danny just not willing to trade picks that end up being players like Prichard and Grant Willians, Aaron Nesmith and Romeo Langford. 

 He could have brought in a lot of players that helped but like others have said he's obsessed with "Winning" trades which ultimately caused him to Fail IMO.

I think ultimately he became a victim of his own success. In his later years he wanted to "win" every trade or it wasn't happening. He didn't want to part with any assets. I think that reputation of having to "win" also hurt him in negotiations with other teams where they didn't want to be seen as "losing" to Danny ainge.

Sometimes you need to make a trade that benefits both parties.

Does danny do the Holiday or White trades? I'm not too sure. He might do the KP trade because we got the best player in that deal.

 Completely agree with this take. Also Danny burned some bridges along the way and some teams just didn't want to trade with him.  Brad's done a better job of keeping the respect of other GMs.

Yeah, when's the last time he got a major haul in a trade? 2007 2013 2017 2022? Clearly he's washed.

There's a good point buried in there (that Ainge likely wouldn't make the White trade), but it gets buried in the disproven/unprovable cliches like how Ainge teams wouldn't trade with him or he wouldn't make a trade that he didn't "win". The biggest change from Ainge to Brad hasn't been the trades, which they both seem pretty great at; it's the contract extensions. Danny almost always let young players test RFA instead of extending them (mostly just signing the no-brainer extensions like Rondo, Brown, and Tatum), and while that probably saved us some money/cap space over the years it also led to more young players leaving for nothing. Brad's willingness to make those deals are what allowed us to sign Rob to that deal (and eventually include him in the Jrue trade), and should provide us more flexibility later with contracts like Pritchard's. Ultimately, I think that's going to be even more important as it gets harder to add players when the 2nd apron penalties come into play. I'm not sure if Ainge will/would have adapted to that change

he's good at getting a major haul. I think the more question is would he be willing to make a trade where he isn't the clear winner. he will make the trade for Kyrie irving where IT4 was cooked, or get a million #1's for Rudy Gobert.

i'm not sure he makes the Derrick white trade or the Brogdon trade or the Jrue holiday trade even...
all those trades we gave up what seemed like alot and both teams won those trades.

on the other hand,  I would trust ainge more than brad to fill out the end of the bench. he always seemed to fill the end with solid vets.

I think he'd make the Jrue deal, but not the White one. But if the two, the White deal now looks like the better value (not that the Jrue deal wasn't good value, but White has just looked so good compared to what we gave up)

[SHAQATTACK]

I don’t blame Brad for Udoka situation. He was a good hire basketball wise .  Sometimes the other bad was baggage hidden , I suspect people knew but nobody was going to throw him under the bus and rat him out to potential new coaching jobs. Like in LA it wouldn’t have hardly raised an eyebrow .

[Yuckabuck33]

I have never understood this accusation about Ainge having to win trades. Was it Michael Jordan's fault if half the NBA didn't want to play him one on one? That's a backhanded compliment to say what's great about Brad is he will lose a trade or get less value just so other people will like him.

[droopdog7]

Similar discussion came up a year and a half ago, asking whether BS or DA deserved the most credit.  So we were giving BS a lot of credit then.

My take is that the combination of DA and BS have us in this position.

[greg683x]

Similar discussion came up a year and a half ago, asking whether BS or DA deserved the most credit.  So we were giving BS a lot of credit then.

My take is that the combination of DA and BS have us in this position.

I think this is the right take.  Though the credit will tip a bit more towards Brad if we win with this current crew.  If we would have won when he made it to the finals a couple years ago I believe it would’ve been more about Ainge since draft finds like Timelord and Grant would have been key contributors.  But Ainge will always deserve a portion of the credit if we win with the Jays

[KG Living Legend]

I have never understood this accusation about Ainge having to win trades. Was it Michael Jordan's fault if half the NBA didn't want to play him one on one? That's a backhanded compliment to say what's great about Brad is he will lose a trade or get less value just so other people will like him.

 Understand this then.  Ainge is similar to Pat Riley.  Maybe that's why they hate each other.

 Riley was in the driver's seat for Lillard.  Figured he could low ball the Blazers from Dames Request. Now Dame is on the Bucks and Holiday is on the Celtics,  because he wouldn't step up and offer up the farm.

 Like Ainge could have had Jimmy Butler multiple times and that probably gets us a ring. You have to step up your offer to get high end talents.

[BitterJim]

I have never understood this accusation about Ainge having to win trades. Was it Michael Jordan's fault if half the NBA didn't want to play him one on one? That's a backhanded compliment to say what's great about Brad is he will lose a trade or get less value just so other people will like him.

 Understand this then.  Ainge is similar to Pat Riley.  Maybe that's why they hate each other.

 Riley was in the driver's seat for Lillard.  Figured he could low ball the Blazers from Dames Request. Now Dame is on the Bucks and Holiday is on the Celtics,  because he wouldn't step up and offer up the farm.

 Like Ainge could have had Jimmy Butler multiple times and that probably gets us a ring. You have to step up your offer to get high end talents.

Those deals would have cost us the picks that became Tatum and/or Brown, and in the summer of 2017 it would have prevented us from signing Hayward (who wasn't as good but didn't cost us a ton of picks/young guys). Arguably trading the Brown pick for Butler would have been the right move, but I don't blame Ainge for not seeing that Butler was capable of leading a team to multiple Finals. I don't know if anyone besides Pat Riley did.

Also, I don't think Miami's problem was low balling Portland. They didn't have nearly enough assets to trade for him (short of including Adebayo, which would have just put Miami in a worse situation the Bucks are in now). Lillard to Miami was a pipe dream from the start.

[timpiker]

I was afraid when Danny left.  Boy, was I wrong.  Thank goodness for Brad...and the owners for spending the money !!!