Can We Be Done With This Big Starting Lineup?

[Jvalin]

Can We Be Done With This Big Starting Lineup?

Yes, please.

[Csfan1984]

The problem with the 2 big-man lineup isn't Theis it's TT. TT was billed as a great defender for the 4 or 5, a floor stretcher, a better scorer, an upgrade over Theis in every way but knowledge of the system. Well so far TT is a bench MLE player not any upgrade. A two big lineup would work with say a real starter like Turner or Vuc, actual bigs who can bang and shoot the three. I'd put DA at fault not BS because in theory you need a 2 big lineup for stretches no matter if starting. This is believed based on a team with two fresh bigs often still puts up a plus stat against small lineups. You can also go to it for easy offense and rebounding when shots arent falling. Neither guy we currently have protects the paint, stretches the floor, or can score on their own. They don't provide any edge on the floor. Both players can look over matched depending on who they face nightly so they are below avg floor defenders too. So when it comes to 2 bigs it's good when you have thever right players. These two being redundant probably isnt a good idea as co-starters but to have the two both not starting is probably worse.

I say worse because in giving up on a 2 big-man lineup the team then plans on what rotation exactly? Playing Green or Nesmith even more as there are no other wings. Or how about playing Semi and GW more who are terrible over huge stretches of a season and can't stay with guards. We are hoping some how we get better production from deep bench guys in this scenario. The smart play is TT and Theis because despite their flaws they are proven and you have consistency. The real issue then is still substitution with any choice of starting lineup as GW and TL are the backup bigs. Both are undersized and both flawed. In theory we have 4 back up bigs not true pencil in starters. And the wing depth relys on Tatum and Brown staggering playing time choking the offense.

All I can suggest is shorten the rotation. Base starters and subs completely on match ups until DA improves the bench. Right now that is counting on a top 8 players that always plays then situation choices. No starters, no unit subbing. Play matchups.

Top 8
Walker, Smart, Brown, Tatum, Theis
Teague, Pritchard, TT.

Situation players
Rest of roster as no one stands out.

[Roy H.]

You can’t start two centers in the modern game.

I’d rather start Teague or Pritchard.

[GreenEnvy]

Funny how every guy we bring in forgets how to rebound or shoot. It felt to me like Thompson keeps getting beat by guys like Plumlee. I wondered why so many thought he was a major improvement over Kanter. Defensively sure, he’s an upgrade. But let’s not pretend like he’s a game-altering defender himself. I still think Kanter is a better rebounder on both ends and way more polished around the rim.

I’d start Teague while Kemba is out. Not that I think he’s playing well (his shot should come around, I guess), but Teague/Smart/Brown/Tatum/Theis shouldn’t be awful. Have one of the Jays on the court at all times, and Pritchard/Grant/Thompson off the bench.

[GreenWarrior]

Why did we give up on tatum at the 4?

[Who]

Why did we give up on tatum at the 4?

I reckon this change is more a result of the complete lack of depth at SG - SF - PF than a desire to play Tatum at SF next two old fashioned big men.

The team just does not have enough quality depth at the wing / swing positions for CBS to feel comfortable with Tatum at PF. I think CBS should get over it and just play Nesmith even if Nesmith is not completely ready for the minutes. 

Regardless, I reckon it is only a matter of time until we see Tatum back at PF and small ball back in our midst. It would be nice if Ainge could help CBS out and get him the team some wing depth. Make his life a bit easier. Use that TPE or trade one of those bigs.

[gouki88]

I’ll admit, I was excited about the prospect of a two big lineup. However, I totally overestimated Theis’ ability to shoot and reliably defend the perimeter. I thought we might be in line to see something as effective as Baynes-Horford, but alas.

But if we’re all realising it, why isn’t the coach?

I know it’s early, but I'd start PP. Start PP-Smart-Brown-Tatum-Thompson, with a bench of (in order of minutes) Teague-Timelord-Theis-Semi-Grant-Nesmith.

[Csfan1984]

I’ll admit, I was excited about the prospect of a two big lineup. However, I totally overestimated Theis’ ability to shoot and reliably defend the perimeter. I thought we might be in line to see something as effective as Baynes-Horford, but alas.

But if we’re all realising it, why isn’t the coach?

I know it’s early, but I'd start PP. Start PP-Smart-Brown-Tatum-Thompson, with a bench of (in order of minutes) Teague-Timelord-Theis-Semi-Grant-Nesmith.

Management never likes to be wrong. They often wont change till injury.

[Jvalin]

But if we’re all realising it, why isn’t the coach?

Plenty of possible explanations:

- CBS is still experimenting due to the shortened preseason. Imo, this is the most likely explanation.
- Both Theis and Thompson see themselves as starting-calibre players. CBS wants to keep them happy.
- We wanna create playing time for Timelord. Only way to do that is by playing both Theis and Thompson at the same time.
- Danny wants to sell high on Theis. If we bench him, his trade value may go down a bit.

Anyway, you get the idea. I'm just making stuff up.

[Silas]

Start PP and sit either Thompson or Theis.

[BASS_THUMPER]

Start PP and sit either Thompson or Theis.

I agree..


give him the Lead Role cause he got it in him to lead.

his floor vision is crazy.

[Sophomore]

But if we’re all realising it, why isn’t the coach?

Plenty of possible explanations:

- CBS is still experimenting due to the shortened preseason. Imo, this is the most likely explanation.
- Both Theis and Thompson see themselves as starting-calibre players. CBS wants to keep them happy.
- We wanna create playing time for Timelord. Only way to do that is by playing both Theis and Thompson at the same time.
- Danny wants to sell high on Theis. If we bench him, his trade value may go down a bit.

Anyway, you get the idea. I'm just making stuff up.

My guess is this bolder part has a lot to do with it. Deciding whether to keep or trade Timelord is a really important decision and they need to see him in games.

[LilRip]

The problem in the starting lineup is that u have 3 offensively limited players in TT, Theis, and Smart.

On Smart: because he’s a good enough shooter to make defenses pay and he has enough passing to keep the ball moving or find the open man, it’s possible to “hide” his limited offense by giving him a proper role. With Kemba out, him being our starting PG is asking for a bit much imo but it might be survivable

On TT/Theis: the problem is that they both aren’t reliable shooters and they both fill similar roles on offense. Last year, we could “hide” Theis because he’s the only one filling that space. With both on the floor at the same time, you either kill your spacing or you have one take on a role that isn’t suited for them (aka why Theis has been shooting open threes). So unless one of them can start shooting like Love or Hayward out on the perimeter, this combo isn’t going to work.


This problem can be solved by putting in a shooter (Nesmith? TPE?) or moving Smart up and putting in a PG (Pritchard? Teague?) and moving one of Theis or TT to the bench. I’m of the opinion that Theis should move down.

[Tr1boy]

Starting lineup should be

TT
Tatum
Nesmith
Brown
Pritchard

You play Tatum and Brown with two good shooters

[IDreamCeltics]

So many Celtics fans across the blogosphere have clamored for Brad Stevens to play a two big lineup for years. The desire to put up traditional lineups seemed to be the move that would correct all that ailed the team over the last couple years.

But the reality is that Brad's starting lineups with just one big were extremely good 5 man units on both sides of the ball. Rather than trying to react to what other teams were playing, Brad preferred to run his three wing lineups and make other teams adjust to the Celtics.

Whether the lineup had the Hayward/Tatum/Brown wing unit or the Tatum/Brown/Smart wing unit, the team thrived. Most NBA teams just didn't have the two way quality that Boston had in those positions and with quality score first PGs, they were a tough team to beat or put away.

Yes, Hayward is gone and Kemba hurt, so the current team isn't playing nearly as well, but in limited games and minutes, the one big units definitely appear to be better offensively and defensively, using a three wing concept that puts Tatum, Brown and Smart in their natural positions where they can excel.

To me, the two big starting lineup with Thompson and Theis is a massive fail. Theis just isn't comfortable playing the four and playing on the perimeter. He is a undersized center, not a power forward, and he excels at center, as last year showed. He is just a much better player on both sides of the ball when he is doing center type things.

The offense is also pretty lousy with three non-scorers in the starting lineup. Smart can be a playmaker but without another primary ballhandler like Kemba, the current starting unit gets bogged down offensively. Brown and Tatum are developing their playmaking abilities, but just aren't there yet, therefore, it behooves Stevens to get another ballhandler/playmaker into the starting unit and try to go with way more PG/3 wing/center units throughout the game.

I think it's time to admit Stevens concept of one big was the concept this collection of players would best thrive in. Time to stop the experimenting with two bigs with limited offensive abilities and maximize their chances of producing mismatches they can take advantage of with their three wing units.

A.  We've seen a two bigs lineup work perfectly with Baynes and Horford.

B.  Theis is a borderline Euroleaguer and Tristan Thompson is a 6'8 rebounder... I think most fans were thinking of at least 1 legit NBA starting big when they talked about wanting to see 2 bigs played.