Author Topic: Why did we draft Nesmith again?  (Read 19718 times)

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Re: Why did we draft Nesmith again?
« Reply #75 on: January 01, 2021, 08:42:50 AM »

Offline Birdman

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Wait 2 years then we can decide bout him.. too early to tell bout any rookies yet..thou Ainge draft record isn’t the best
C/PF-Horford, Baynes, Noel, Theis, Morris,
SF/SG- Tatum, Brown, Hayward, Smart, Semi, Clark
PG- Irving, Rozier, Larkin

Re: Why did we draft Nesmith again?
« Reply #76 on: January 01, 2021, 09:02:52 AM »

Offline Surferdad

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If he doesn't speed up his release, he's not going to make it in the NBA.

Re: Why did we draft Nesmith again?
« Reply #77 on: January 01, 2021, 09:09:44 AM »

Offline gouki88

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If he doesn't speed up his release, he's not going to make it in the NBA.
Gotta love claims like this from posters on the internet who aren’t NBA coaches or shooting coaches
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Why did we draft Nesmith again?
« Reply #78 on: January 01, 2021, 09:17:14 AM »

Offline td450

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If he doesn't speed up his release, he's not going to make it in the NBA.
Gotta love claims like this from posters on the internet who aren’t NBA coaches or shooting coaches

Dude, you are a moderator on a Sports team themed blog. Please don't roll out lines like this. We are all making comments as fans.

Re: Why did we draft Nesmith again?
« Reply #79 on: January 01, 2021, 11:06:33 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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Quote
But if you are going to pick a player with a lotto pick you have to give them minutes consitantly. When is the last time a lotto pick got to be a good player/difference maker by practicing with the team and not getting playing time.

Most lottery picks aren’t drafted by teams that made the conference finals.

Looking at this year’s lottery, Okora, Okongwu, Hayes, Tobin, Smith, Vassell and Lewis Jr. all have struggled mightily at times.  It’s likely that all would be getting very few minutes on a serious playoff contender.  Other guys who fans like such as Cole Anthony, RJ Hampton and Saddiq Bey have all sucked too.

All busts, or are we perhaps 5% through a season with no NCAA tournament or summer league, and a very abbreviated training camp and preseason?

You are right, drafting in the lotto and being a good team is rare.

But you atill need to get minutes for the playet you draft.
Only if they are ready for those minutes. We saw evidence in the Memphis game that Nesmith isn't ready at all.

Nesmith was completely lost for 95% of the time he was out there. That was most likely what was keeping him from playing any minutes, as Nesmith probably looked that bad in practice as well.

Nesmith is young, hasn't played competitively in almost a year, didn't have Summer League, training camp and a real preseason and doesn't have the BBIQ to pick up the complexities of the offensive and defensive systems in an immediate fashion.

That doesn't mean he won't get better to the point of earning himself some playing time. It's just going to take longer than 5 games into his first season after such a whacky off-season. Remember players such as Avery Bradley and Terry Rozier played very little their rookie years but turned into promising starter material in time.

Let's have a little patience.


Re: Why did we draft Nesmith again?
« Reply #80 on: January 01, 2021, 11:09:38 AM »

Offline wiley

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we drafted him to sink the hearts of the opposition after they've played 30 seconds of amazing D but still get rained on... 8)

coming soon to a theater near you.. 8) 8)

Re: Why did we draft Nesmith again?
« Reply #81 on: January 01, 2021, 11:10:15 AM »

Offline Phantom255x

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I feel like Nesmith would have gone later than #14, but before #26. So that's why Danny picked him at #14 and didn't take the risk of missing out on him. And maybe Danny just wasn't high on some of the other prospects available in that range between 15-25. Pritchard was also picked a tad earlier than expected which could point to a similar trend.

I'm a bit bummed we didn't take Bane at 30 though which Memphis did. Instead we decided to basically dump that pick because of roster spots and such which is annoying. I would have GLADLY dumped someone like Edwards to draft and fit Bane in.
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Re: Why did we draft Nesmith again?
« Reply #82 on: January 01, 2021, 11:10:52 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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he has to learn defense first in CBS system to earn trust of his team and coach .   Understand the defense schemes , know your opponents, be prepared and ready to take on defensive assignments.   he has a LONGgggggggggggg road ahead if he wants to see court minutes as a scorer capacity.    This seemed to come easily to Langford , why i miss what he could bring defensively.

Re: Why did we draft Nesmith again?
« Reply #83 on: January 01, 2021, 11:31:06 AM »

Offline Hoopvortex

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We know what Semi is. A guy who can play good defense and maybe knock down a couple open treys. Nothing more. And usually less.

I want to see if Nesmith really can be an elite shooter.

It’s early so I’m fine with whoever Brad wants to play, but eventually we need to see what Nesmith can do.

Again, Nesmith is not competing with Ojeleye for minutes. He weighs 213...

He’s playing behind Smart and Brown, basically. There just aren’t a lot of minutes available.

Regarding Semi, you describe an effective 3-and-D player. That’s good, isn’t it? Despite your comment that he does ‘Nothing more. And usually less’, he shot 20 points above league average on threes for the entire season last year, and was routinely put on some of the toughest covers in the league (in the Toronto series, you probably noticed that they put him on Siakam, for example).

Regarding Nesmith - he’ll get his chance, and it won’t be long. The learning curve is steep for most rookies. And yes, he ‘really can be an elite shooter.’

I see people saying this, but Brown or Tatum could easily slide up to the 4 instead of Ojeleye and have Nesmith covering whatever wing or guard is a bit smaller. This is the benefit of versatility in players--you put the players with the most talent on the floor and those players can cover multiple positions.

As always your thinking is logical; and it takes the big picture of lineups into account. My only issue with it is that it doesn’t match reality very well.

First about Brown. It’s true that he’s had some high-visibility stints guarding up (Lebron for example, in the 2018 playoffs), but it’s actually rare for him to do that. He virtually always takes the quicker wing, where he’s typically got a size advantage.

Tatum certainly played a lot of ‘4’ last year; and yet Ojeleye still got about 15 minutes a game, same as the year before - and despite Grant Williams also earning rotation minutes. Ojeleye got the bulk of his minutes in fact paired with Tatum.

Often fans see players as fitting into one of the five prescribed roles; but the reality is a lot more individual than that. Ojeleye’s minutes have been consistent season to season because he has a role to play that no one on the team does better.

You mention versatility. Ojeleye’s versatility is in fact one of his many virtues as a defender. He’s got a rare combination of lower-body strength, weight (240), laterals, and footwork to guard up or down without fouling and to move his man into help.

More immediately to the point is the way lineups are working this season. Two or three of Smart, Brown, Teague, or Pritchard are always on the floor at the same time. Whether you call them ones or twos doesn’t matter so much; there aren’t many scraps left for Nesmith (or for that matter Carsen Edwards).

Digging deeper, there are always two of Smart, Teague, or Pritchard on the floor, except when the new two-centers lineup is in place. So right now it’s either two centers or two points (or whatever Marcus Smart is). On top of that, one of Brown or Tatum is always on the floor - usually both. Do the math.

We’re in a sorting-out period. Some of the experiments might not be repeated; the two-centers lineup will likely continue a while, even though there are mixed results up to this point. The two-points lineups will likely also continue, at least until Kemba returns, and Peyton Pritchard is making his case for both on- and off-the-ball roles. The coaching staff are trying out Javonte Green in various units as well.

But the best argument against your claim is Brad Stevens’ own assessment of Nesmith’s role:

Quote
Adam Himmelsbach: what have you seen from Aaron these first few weeks and what does he need to show you to get a chance in one of these games?

BS: Obviously, you can only play five guys at a time. We’ve got several guys who are high-minute players at his position, and very often it’s hard to crack when you’re in an eight- or nine-man rotation…

It’s a unique situation right now from our standpoint.  He’s doing everything that he needs to do. He’s working really hard. He’s a guy that does not have the same level of experience as others but will catch up quickly because of his work ethic, his personality, who he is and everything else. Biggest key for him is just stay upbeat. He’ll get plenty of opportunities as the season goes along… I have no doubt that he’ll be ready.



Ojeleye is his main competition right now, and Ojeleye has done nothing so far this season or in his career to separate himself as a 3D player.

Apart from moving his 3-pt average above league-average last year?

Nesmith will have to earn those minutes over Ojeleye, but Nesmith can be a real difference-maker if he figures it out.

I’m not persuaded about his competing with Ojeleye, obviously. But I certainly agree that Nesmith can be a difference-maker.

I got my best look at him yet in the Memphis game, and I have to say I’m encouraged. He needs a LOT of work on his lower body, and come to think of it, on his upper body, too. By the same token, he's got some pretty intriguing length and spring and the capacity to use it; he's got more of a game than the 3-ball, and of course the distance shooting...

The roster spots that are most threatened are Carsen's and Romeo's. I'd bet on Nesmith over those two.

Patience, grasshopper.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2021, 11:37:22 AM by Hoopvortex »
'I was proud of Marcus Smart. He did a great job of keeping us together. He might not get credit for this game, but the pace that he played at, and his playcalling, some of the plays that he called were great. We obviously have to rely on him, so I’m definitely looking forward to Marcus leading this team in that role.' - Jaylen Brown, January 2021

Re: Why did we draft Nesmith again?
« Reply #84 on: January 01, 2021, 11:39:20 AM »

Offline IDreamCeltics

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Nesmith played like 10 games of college basketball, then got hurt, and didn’t play competitive basketball for almost a year. I’m not sure what people really expected. He’s a raw player. Yes, he can shoot (we think) but he really can’t do anything else well enough right now. He just needs to learn and adjust.

This is exactly the bio of someone you don't waste a high pick on. 

1.  Wasn't durable enough to play a college season
2.  No experience
3.  Not a great athlete to begin with

I find these Danny Ainge picks both baffling and maddening as he seems to learn nothing from repeating the same mistakes.


Re: Why did we draft Nesmith again?
« Reply #85 on: January 01, 2021, 11:42:12 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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As always your thinking is logical; and it takes the big picture of lineups into account. My only issue with it is that it doesn’t match reality very well.

First about Brown. It’s true that he’s had some high-visibility stints guarding up (Lebron for example, in the 2018 playoffs), but it’s actually rare for him to do that. He virtually always takes the quicker wing, where he’s typically got a size advantage.
Last year, this simply wasn't true. Defensively, Jaylen played PF as much as the other wing positions. A quick look at the matchup stats reveal that the players he defended the most, measured in time, are littered with PFs.

https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1627759/head-to-head/?Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=SECONDS&dir=1


Re: Why did we draft Nesmith again?
« Reply #86 on: January 01, 2021, 11:47:26 AM »

Online Roy H.

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Nesmith played like 10 games of college basketball, then got hurt, and didn’t play competitive basketball for almost a year. I’m not sure what people really expected. He’s a raw player. Yes, he can shoot (we think) but he really can’t do anything else well enough right now. He just needs to learn and adjust.

This is exactly the bio of someone you don't waste a high pick on. 

1.  Wasn't durable enough to play a college season
2.  No experience
3.  Not a great athlete to begin with

I find these Danny Ainge picks both baffling and maddening as he seems to learn nothing from repeating the same mistakes.

Sounds like Kyrie Irving.  Bust!


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Re: Why did we draft Nesmith again?
« Reply #87 on: January 01, 2021, 11:50:29 AM »

Online Vermont Green

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So the Celtics used one of multiple picks on a higher upside, higher risk player over a safer pick.  Drafting is hard.  It is easy for fans to second guess, like when we took safe pick Kelly Olynyk over the risker guy from Greece.

Anyway, when I see Nesmith out there, it makes me think of Avery Bradley his rookie season.  Avery to me demonstrated ability but he was not emotionally ready for the NBA.  He was nervous, he had the "yipps".  Nesmith is a bigger version of Bradley of course but right now, he is nervous.  He is overwhelmed by the game, just like Bradley was.

It took Bradley literally an entire season to obtain the confidence that allowed his ability to be put to use.  I hope it does not take that long with Nesmith, and I don't think it will, but it appears to me that it will take some time.  I remain on the record as liking the pick but I understand that drafting is a crap shoot and he may not work out.

Re: Why did we draft Nesmith again?
« Reply #88 on: January 01, 2021, 12:19:03 PM »

Online jambr380

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I feel like Nesmith would have gone later than #14, but before #26. So that's why Danny picked him at #14 and didn't take the risk of missing out on him. And maybe Danny just wasn't high on some of the other prospects available in that range between 15-25. Pritchard was also picked a tad earlier than expected which could point to a similar trend.

I'm a bit bummed we didn't take Bane at 30 though which Memphis did. Instead we decided to basically dump that pick because of roster spots and such which is annoying. I would have GLADLY dumped someone like Edwards to draft and fit Bane in.

I don't think your first point is quite true. By the time our pick rolled around, he was the obvious target as he had already slid a couple of spots past where people thought he'd go. Of course there are always guys that slide, but there was absolutely no chance he was coming anywhere near the 26th pick. At the very least, he would have gone before Green or Bey at 18 or 19.

In hindsight, it might have made more sense to deal #14 for a future pick around the same range and keep Bane, but it's not like he is lighting it up either and Nesmith has far more potential. I think we just need to take our time with the kid. At the very least, you have to love his effort. The two handed standing dunk was nice, too, and showed some solid athleticism.

Re: Why did we draft Nesmith again?
« Reply #89 on: January 01, 2021, 02:00:29 PM »

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So the Celtics used one of multiple picks on a higher upside, higher risk player over a safer pick.  Drafting is hard.  It is easy for fans to second guess, like when we took safe pick Kelly Olynyk over the risker guy from Greece.

Anyway, when I see Nesmith out there, it makes me think of Avery Bradley his rookie season.  Avery to me demonstrated ability but he was not emotionally ready for the NBA.  He was nervous, he had the "yipps".  Nesmith is a bigger version of Bradley of course but right now, he is nervous.  He is overwhelmed by the game, just like Bradley was.

It took Bradley literally an entire season to obtain the confidence that allowed his ability to be put to use.  I hope it does not take that long with Nesmith, and I don't think it will, but it appears to me that it will take some time.  I remain on the record as liking the pick but I understand that drafting is a crap shoot and he may not work out.

I think mid-late first round picks get unfairly judged.  They have the 1st Round label but are clearly not the cream of the crop.   The hoped for scenario (barring a miracle) is that these players become solid rotation players/ average starter and that's over time, not immediately.  Of course they may exceed that or may bust, but if you get a solid rotation player or starter after 3 years in the league from Rozier, Langford and Nesmith, you are drafting really well at the mid-first round position.

I'm pretty excited that it looks like Danny has a rotation player out of the gate with #26, also excited to see how Romeo plays upon his return, and how Nesmith develops over the course of the next couple of years.   No need for anyone to declare him a bust because he's missing 3's in his first opportunities.  I agree he's probably got the yips but he's active and doing more things than shooting 3's.  I think Pritchard's early success probably works both ways for Nesmith -- provides great motivation but also puts some added pressure to produce right away.