Author Topic: Is Brad Stevens the problem?  (Read 29404 times)

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Re: Is Brad Stevens the problem?
« Reply #75 on: January 02, 2021, 12:42:34 PM »

Offline GreenlyGreeny

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Start the freaking clock danny Wyc.

Fixed.

Re: Is Brad Stevens the problem?
« Reply #76 on: January 02, 2021, 12:47:48 PM »

Offline GreenWarrior

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Ainge is the problem

After 2 games your again without veteran bench leadership despite Walker being out

Ainge is afraid to make a deal it’s proven

Exactly what proof can you point to of Ainge being "afraid"?


Leonard
Lost Irving for nothing
Now Harden?

You had 3 number 1 picks to deal this past draft for veteran bench depth zero trades

Shall I go on?
This isn't evidence of anything at all actually.

What were the deals that Ainge was offered but didn’t make?

Nevermind the things we don't actually know about.

 one of ainges biggest mistakes was not trading rozier at the deadline when he had the chance. I'm willing to bet irving would agree. Ainge actually admitted that in retrospect he should have done so too. But at the time when he didn't he said he liked our bench and didn't want to ruin the chemistry. Ultimately this team showed it had no chemistry.

And now we're left with a bunch of young guys on our bench that we had to draft because all these draft picks that we were pretty much told we're assets danny didn't decided not to move because of this mythical chemistry that never existed in the first place.

I actually like ainge but he diverged from what was seemingly the plan and he needs to figure things out now because this thing is on the verge of being a real disaster.

Re: Is Brad Stevens the problem?
« Reply #77 on: January 02, 2021, 01:02:50 PM »

Offline td450

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This team doesn't have Walker, Hayward, Wanamaker (give him credit for being a reliable scorer off the bench) and Langford from last year. Walker and Langford will come back, and while Walker will likely give us less, Langford should give us more. While he is a rookie and probably will be more up and down, Pritchard should make up for losing Wanamaker. More shots for Tatum and Brown make up about half of what Hayward added last year.

So, right now, things are a bit uncomfortable, but realistically, most of these problems will go away. If Walker can give us 14-16 ppg in 20+ minutes and Langford can produce 10 ppg  in 15-20 minutes, (or Nesmith can provide anything consistently) we will be better than last year in 2 months.

Right now, Teague/Pritchard/Smart aren't consistent enough secondary scoring options for a top tier team. The team needs Walker to give us a 3rd scorer and they need a little bit more from everybody else, but that will probably happen on its own.

Re: Is Brad Stevens the problem?
« Reply #78 on: January 02, 2021, 01:27:22 PM »

Offline Jvalin

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Don't think he's the problem. We lost Hayward and Kemba, that's the problem.

Tatum and Brown are score-first players. We desperately need a guy who can keep everyone involved on offense. Hayward was amazing in this role. Kemba is a PnR specialist. Neither Tatum nor Brown can consistently create shots for their teammates (not yet anyway).

We also have a dysfunctional starting lineup. Imo, this is the #1 reason we lost the game last night. By the time CBS changed our lineup, the Pistons had already a massive scoring advantage. It was a different game after that. Not sure why CBS insists on starting both Theis and Thompson, but we are only 6 games into the season. I guess he's still experimenting cause we had a shorter preseason this year.

Re: Is Brad Stevens the problem?
« Reply #79 on: January 02, 2021, 01:28:00 PM »

Offline NKY fan

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Ainge is the problem

After 2 games your again without veteran bench leadership despite Walker being out

Ainge is afraid to make a deal it’s proven

Exactly what proof can you point to of Ainge being "afraid"?


Leonard
Lost Irving for nothing
Now Harden?

You had 3 number 1 picks to deal this past draft for veteran bench depth zero trades

Shall I go on?
This isn't evidence of anything at all actually.

What were the deals that Ainge was offered but didn’t make?
I think Phoenix offered a first round pick for Rozier but Danny liked him too much. So much that rozier started ruin the chemistry of the team. Cant blame him to much as his career earnings were on the line ...
Then the disaster negotiations with pacers a couple months ago. Now we have this mythical TPE which we had to pay for and it may not even be used because there is no viable trade out there.
There are plenty more thorough out the years

Re: Is Brad Stevens the problem?
« Reply #80 on: January 02, 2021, 03:03:46 PM »

Offline Darth_Yoda

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Ainge is the problem

After 2 games your again without veteran bench leadership despite Walker being out

Ainge is afraid to make a deal it’s proven

Exactly what proof can you point to of Ainge being "afraid"?


Leonard
Lost Irving for nothing
Now Harden?

You had 3 number 1 picks to deal this past draft for veteran bench depth zero trades

Shall I go on?
This isn't evidence of anything at all actually.

What were the deals that Ainge was offered but didn’t make?
I think Phoenix offered a first round pick for Rozier but Danny liked him too much. So much that rozier started ruin the chemistry of the team. Cant blame him to much as his career earnings were on the line ...
Then the disaster negotiations with pacers a couple months ago. Now we have this mythical TPE which we had to pay for and it may not even be used because there is no viable trade out there.
There are plenty more thorough out the years

Trading bane because he cant have 3 rookies.

Not trading gordon for something
'21 Historical Draft
PG: Kyle Lowry / Mookie Blaylock / Mark Jackson
SG: Reggie Miller / Jeff Hornacek / Nick Anderson
SF: George Gervin / George McGinnis / Kyle Korver
PF: Connie Hawkins / Serge Ibaka / Josh Smith
C: Clint Capela / Bill Laimbeer / Jusuf Nurkic

Re: Is Brad Stevens the problem?
« Reply #81 on: January 02, 2021, 03:52:22 PM »

Offline Bobshot

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Some say the problem is Ainge. Some say the problem is Stevens. Some say there is no problem.

Well, there must be a problem--they haven't won a title in 13 years. That's very un-Celtic. Subtract the disastrous Gaston years.

My take is I think Stevens and Ainge aren't on the same page on everything. Stevens is basically a perimeter coach. He likes wingish guys who roam the perimeter bombing 3s.
He likes guys who can p & r.  He's not terribly concerned about the paint.  He doesn't appear to value players having certain roles, and sticking to those roles. The title Celtics teams have always had players who knew their roles. They were balanced teams.

Danny was a 2-guard. A designated 3P shooter with Bird.  He favors the 3. But he also played on teams that were strong up front on both offense and defense. Well balanced teams.

The Stevens era teams are consistently weak up front--in the paint. I'm not sure who's at fault here. I know Stevens has said he never coached bigs at Butler, because he couldn't recruit good ones. I know Ainge has signed a number of bigs the past few years, but they haven't had much impact--mostly because they haven't played much. Horford and Baynes were part of the regular rotation, but lately it's been just Theis.  Other guys just haven't gotten many minutes. Theis is used as a starting 5, but I see him as a back up 4. Danny signs a guy like Tacko Fall, who showed in pre season games a couple years back he could put up a brick wall around the paint. But he doesn't get much respect from the coach--except maybe to trot him out there in wipeouts, like a clown. And make a fool out of himself on the perimeter with p & r's. Robert Williams has one of the best per minute stats in the league, but doesn't get many minutes. Granted his durability is questionable. And now we have TT, a paint specialist, which Stevens seems to abhor.  Stevens way of dealing with TT is to start him next to Theis, and leave his PG, Teague, on the bench. That hasn't worked out very well, no surprise there.

What I see here is a team full of talented players, few of whom seem to have specific roles. Smart we know is a defense guy, but he is often seen on the perimeter bombing away with inefficient shots. The rest of the team, I don't know. You got two superstar players in Tatum and Brown, plus Walker in rehab. And a great defensive guy, Smart. But after that, I have no idea. Pritchard shows some promise as a shooter. I will say that.

So there you have it. I just wonder if Ainge and Stevens are on the same page on everything. I have my doubts. It's your turn, Wyc.


Re: Is Brad Stevens the problem?
« Reply #82 on: January 02, 2021, 04:12:53 PM »

Offline GreenWarrior

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Don't think he's the problem. We lost Hayward and Kemba, that's the problem.


And we're still losing the same way(chucking shots) despite not having those guys or a bench.

This is why I've said since stevens 1st season - his offense kills this team. It hasn't mattered what the roster was, we lose games the same way we'd lose in his 1st season as coach.

It was the worst in his 1st season to the point I wondered why we even dribbled the ball up the court when bradley and crawford would pull up and shoot a contested 2 with 20 secs. on the clock.

This is the reason why Marcus doesn't have discipline to realize what a bad shot is because we got the coach over there giving him a thumbs up.

Unfortunately we've chosen the coach over the players and we're going to waste brown and tatum.

Re: Is Brad Stevens the problem?
« Reply #83 on: January 02, 2021, 04:43:12 PM »

Offline Jvalin

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Don't think he's the problem. We lost Hayward and Kemba, that's the problem.
And we're still losing the same way(chucking shots) despite not having those guys or a bench.
Here are the highlights from last night's game. I'm prefectly happy with Tatum's corner 3 at 8:35 of the video. I'm also happy with Brown's 3 at 9:05. Both were ATO plays. We missed the shot, but we had an open look. Tough luck.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2iLmC8V4K4
« Last Edit: January 02, 2021, 04:51:40 PM by Jvalin »

Re: Is Brad Stevens the problem?
« Reply #84 on: January 02, 2021, 05:05:54 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Nope - at least not in MY eyes.

The WORST teams will sometimes get you - especially during a LONG season where most of the team is STILL recuperating from our late-season run just a couple of months ago.

I am MORE concerned/hopeful about our Two Jays - not so much what they can do THEMSELVES as far as helping our team achieve success but what they CAN DO for the REST of our team to make it BETTER........

They are BOTH growing in this regard and I'm happy for them - but HOW LONG will it take for them to have that same effect on the TEAM?

My question is whether or not they can BOTH progress to the point where they are uplifting the ENTIRE team to make it BETTER - whether that is defensively, facilitation, big plays, etc, etc, etc....

You know - LeBron or Durant-like play.......

LeBron and Durant are one of a kinds but can The Jays' game MIMIC theirs as far as uplifting the team?

It's not so much even THOSE TWO legends....can EITHER of The Jays mimic "Jimmy Butler 19-20 Post-Season"? For an ENTIRE series like HE did?

Jimmy was simply INCREDIBLE.

Is this an unfair expectation for our Jays? Let me know.

I think that if we can't answer these questions about The Jays OR don't see them as ever getting "That Good" then we've got to start asking ourselves the hard questions.

Granted - the season is STILL YOUNG....there WILL BE ups and downs...but now that this IS The Jays team there's got to be overall TEAM improvement and that's not so much on Brad.

Re: Is Brad Stevens the problem?
« Reply #85 on: January 02, 2021, 07:00:32 PM »

Offline GreenEnvy

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I think the true problem is we’ve basically handed the keys to under-25 players. Even when Kemba is playing, he seemed to take a backseat to Tatum (and to a lesser extent, Brown).

Don’t get me wrong, I think they are very talented players. But so are KAT and Russell in Minnesota. And Fox/Hield/Bagley in Sacramento. Even Embiid and Simmons in Philly. 

I think Tatum and Brown are pretty close to reaching the apex of their physical talent, but their championship-level-IQ is still years away. Smart beats to his own drum (for better or worse). I appreciate his confidence on both ends, but he should certainly reel it in on offense. I think we have a great foundation, but it’s very hard to rely on 22/23-year-old players to contend. We just may be a few years away (assuming Kemba does not want to put the team on his shoulders - something he hasn’t done since college).
CELTICS 2024

Re: Is Brad Stevens the problem?
« Reply #86 on: January 02, 2021, 07:15:59 PM »

Offline Jvalin

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I think the true problem is we’ve basically handed the keys to under-25 players.
Why wasn't this a problem in 2018? Our 3 leading scorers in the post season were Tatum, Brown and Rozier, yet we reached the ECF and lost in 7 games. Tatum was 20 years old at the time!

Or why wasn't this a problem last season? Hayward practically missed all our playoff games and Kemba was clearly struggling with his injury.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2021, 07:24:15 PM by Jvalin »

Re: Is Brad Stevens the problem?
« Reply #87 on: January 02, 2021, 07:27:30 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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The team is not winning, so you cannot argue precedent. That is not in your favor.

Re: Is Brad Stevens the problem?
« Reply #88 on: January 02, 2021, 07:57:30 PM »

Offline BASS_THUMPER

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Re: Is Brad Stevens the problem?
« Reply #89 on: January 02, 2021, 08:01:34 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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I think the true problem is we’ve basically handed the keys to under-25 players.
Why wasn't this a problem in 2018? Our 3 leading scorers in the post season were Tatum, Brown and Rozier, yet we reached the ECF and lost in 7 games. Tatum was 20 years old at the time!

Or why wasn't this a problem last season? Hayward practically missed all our playoff games and Kemba was clearly struggling with his injury.

It was a problem. Celts couldnt win on the road in the playoffs