Celtics emerging as contender for dragic

[RJ87]

Stein just commented that Celtics not on his list but are still a major player in trading for him.. they have the assets and cap room for long term deal.. Im sure DA knows what he is doing..

His agent has already leaked that he's perfectly fine leaving a 5th year on the table and taking a 4 yr max from NY or LA this summer.

Ainge will grab him and bank on convincing him to stay....he doesn't care if he has a commitment from him or not.  That's what makes DA good, he is completely fearless...

Yeah, he's fearless. It's nice and all but how often does it work out? This is a league where players and agents have significant influence on trades. Ainge was also willing to get Cp3 and convince him, but he never got the opportunity because Cp3 had no interest in playing here and practically squashed the trade. Dragic will end up on a team of his choosing regardless of the fact that Ainge may put together a nice trade package to interest Phoenix brass. That's the reality of the league.

[kozlodoev]

I don't understand going after Dragic with Smart already on board. Is that trade going to be Smart for Dragic? I hope not... But can those two players co-exist?

Unlike some other "pure PGs" we know, Goran Dragic is a guard that's not completely useless when he doesn't have the ball in his hands. He played with Thomas and Bledsoe, for crying out loud.

But he doesn't like playing off the ball and is unwilling to adapt. Unlike some other "pure PGs" we know, that's why he's demanding a trade.

I didn't realize sulking and passing up shots was a method of adapting to the being "the man" on a team. Live and learn, I guess.

Also, I've seen zero reliable information that he's unwilling to adapt to anything, so your guess is as good as mine.

[RJ87]

Also, I've seen zero reliable information that he's unwilling to adapt to anything, so your guess is as good as mine.

USA Today reported Tuesday night that Dragic's agent, Bill Duffy, informed the Suns that his client intends to sign elsewhere as a free agent this offseason, no longer willing to share a backcourt with Eric Bledsoe and Isaiah Thomas.

All of the venom you like to throw at other "pure PGs" is based on reports and rumors. Why is it that the same reports get dismissed regarding other players when it doesn't fit your opinion?

Consider the fact that as recently as Sept during the World Cup, Dragic said he'd resign in Phoenix. The sign IT and resigned Bledsoe. Dragic's usage rate drops. Now he wants out... Yeah, sounds like a really committed guy.

[MBunge]

Dragic is one of those players where it all depends on what you give up.

I mean, the guy has been in the league for a lot of years now and he's only had one season where he would qualify as an above-average player at his position.  If he can be had with a trade exception and one our future picks that will probably be in the 20s, sure.  I can't imagine giving up one of the Brooklyn picks for him.

Mike

[CsBanner18]

Lets not forget the return we got for Rondo. Mind u he never had his said he was leaving. With that said, a late 1st and either an expiring (Thornton, Prince, or Bass) or Bradley should get it done. We also have the TPE, although is rather keep it for someone else

A key factor is that Dragic is cheaper, which means more teams can match his salary.  The more potential buyers, the greater the price.  It only takes $5 million in outgoing salary to trade for Dragic if you're below the tax, and $5.9 million if you're above it.  Compare this to the $8.6 million and $10.2 million, respectively, it took in matching salaries to acquire Rondo.  Furthermore, Dragic's cap hold next season is less than the salary he will be seeking (and likely get).  So if you trade for him now, and you're a team that would have been able to sign him with cap room, you've created cap space.  Specifically, Dragic will probably get $18 million next year (don't laugh.  He will).  His cap hold is only $11.25 million, however.  So if the Celtics were to sign Dragic as a free agent, they'd need $18 million in space.  However, if they trade for Dragic, and agree to re-sign him, they can count him as $11.25 million against the cap while they use up the remainder, and then sign him to his deal with Bird rights, essentially creating about $7 million in cap space.  On the other side, Rondo took up the entire max salary with his hold.  Finances have a huge impact on trades, and accordingly, I would expect Dragic to be more valuable on the trade market.

I agree with everything you said. Essentially we'd be flipping Rondo for a more marketable PG who would be a significantly better trade asset in the future. Get him now, resign him, and if it doesn't work out we can trade trade him at some point down the line.

What will it take to get Dragic tho? I want any deal to involve AB

[Boris Badenov]

Dragic is one of those players where it all depends on what you give up.

I mean, the guy has been in the league for a lot of years now and he's only had one season where he would qualify as an above-average player at his position.  If he can be had with a trade exception and one our future picks that will probably be in the 20s, sure.  I can't imagine giving up one of the Brooklyn picks for him.

Mike

This is a legit concern, I think. Most of his averages have regressed this season, even adjusting for minutes played (including things like steals, which should be independent of his offensive role).

You hate to buy high on someone who's just had a career year.

[saltlover]

Here's why I think Ainge is willing to take the risk (if the price is right):

Look at the list of Dragic's top 3 teams, and consider how likely they are to actually get Dragic in free agency.

Miami simply doesn't have the cap room, and it would take a ton of maneuvering to get it.  They could sign-and-trade for Dragic, but that means the C's get something in return.

LA has the cap room to add one major player.  Is Dragic their first choice?  Second?  Third?  I don't even think he's their first choice at PG (Rondo is).  What if they draft Mudaiy?  If they go elsewhere, which is not improbable, that's yet another suitor down for Dragic.

NY is pretty much the same situation as LA, except that they have Calderon taking up a lot of cap space at the PG position too.  Does adding a scoring PG next to Carmelo and Calderon (who will otherwise be tough to move) make more sense than pursuing a big like Gasol?  At the end of the day, Danny would a) be able to present the biggest offer to Dragic, and b) likely not have to compete with most of Dragic's desired destinations.

There's risk, but there's also reason to believe it is anything but guaranteed that he does walk in free agency.  This, also, is why the Suns might be willing to risk keeping Dragic.  They know his list of preferred teams, and also know how likely it will be that those teams will actually make a max offer in the summer.

[CoachBo]

Here's why I think Ainge is willing to take the risk (if the price is right):

Look at the list of Dragic's top 3 teams, and consider how likely they are to actually get Dragic in free agency.

Miami simply doesn't have the cap room, and it would take a ton of maneuvering to get it.  They could sign-and-trade for Dragic, but that means the C's get something in return.

LA has the cap room to add one major player.  Is Dragic their first choice?  Second?  Third?  I don't even think he's their first choice at PG (Rondo is).  What if they draft Mudaiy?  If they go elsewhere, which is not improbable, that's yet another suitor down for Dragic.

NY is pretty much the same situation as LA, except that they have Calderon taking up a lot of cap space at the PG position too.  Does adding a scoring PG next to Carmelo and Calderon (who will otherwise be tough to move) make more sense than pursuing a big like Gasol?  At the end of the day, Danny would a) be able to present the biggest offer to Dragic, and b) likely not have to compete with most of Dragic's desired destinations.

There's risk, but there's also reason to believe it is anything but guaranteed that he does walk in free agency.  This, also, is why the Suns might be willing to risk keeping Dragic.  They know his list of preferred teams, and also know how likely it will be that those teams will actually make a max offer in the summer.

Consigned for truth

[saltlover]

Dragic is one of those players where it all depends on what you give up.

I mean, the guy has been in the league for a lot of years now and he's only had one season where he would qualify as an above-average player at his position.  If he can be had with a trade exception and one our future picks that will probably be in the 20s, sure.  I can't imagine giving up one of the Brooklyn picks for him.

Mike

This is a legit concern, I think. Most of his averages have regressed this season, even adjusting for minutes played (including things like steals, which should be independent of his offensive role).

You hate to buy high on someone who's just had a career year.

Even steals, however, are still affected by his changed role.  When IT is on at the same time as Dragic, IT will guard the other team's point, due to the huge size mismatch against opposing twos.  If Dragic guards the opposing ballhandler less, he'll have fewer opportunity for steals.  You would also expect his rebounds to go down as well if he's genrally against larger players than last year, as well as blocks.

It seems like a lot of the league really think Dragic is a very good-to-great player.  I'm going to go with the people who are professional NBA talent evaluators having a better idea on how much Dragic is worth than my own personal opinion, when the pros are all seemingly in agreement.

[RJ87]

Here's why I think Ainge is willing to take the risk (if the price is right):

Look at the list of Dragic's top 3 teams, and consider how likely they are to actually get Dragic in free agency.

Miami simply doesn't have the cap room, and it would take a ton of maneuvering to get it.  They could sign-and-trade for Dragic, but that means the C's get something in return.

LA has the cap room to add one major player.  Is Dragic their first choice?  Second?  Third?  I don't even think he's their first choice at PG (Rondo is).  What if they draft Mudaiy?  If they go elsewhere, which is not improbable, that's yet another suitor down for Dragic.

NY is pretty much the same situation as LA, except that they have Calderon taking up a lot of cap space at the PG position too.  Does adding a scoring PG next to Carmelo and Calderon (who will otherwise be tough to move) make more sense than pursuing a big like Gasol?  At the end of the day, Danny would a) be able to present the biggest offer to Dragic, and b) likely not have to compete with most of Dragic's desired destinations.

There's risk, but there's also reason to believe it is anything but guaranteed that he does walk in free agency.  This, also, is why the Suns might be willing to risk keeping Dragic.  They know his list of preferred teams, and also know how likely it will be that those teams will actually make a max offer in the summer.

But this is also why I don't think we have a realistic chance even from the gambler's perspective. Reports that the C's, Rockets, and Sacramento are all willing to trade for him even though those teams aren't on his list. If the Rockets acquired him they can entice him with no income state tax, a playoff caliber squad featuring an MVP caliber player. Sacramento can even offer Rudy Gay and a young all-star big in Cousins. What exactly can Boston offer? 9 feet of snow? No national TV exposure due to lack of roster? Maybe Marcus Smart turns into an all-star in a couple of years? That Sully will go on a diet and morph into Kevin Love?

[saltlover]

Here's why I think Ainge is willing to take the risk (if the price is right):

Look at the list of Dragic's top 3 teams, and consider how likely they are to actually get Dragic in free agency.

Miami simply doesn't have the cap room, and it would take a ton of maneuvering to get it.  They could sign-and-trade for Dragic, but that means the C's get something in return.

LA has the cap room to add one major player.  Is Dragic their first choice?  Second?  Third?  I don't even think he's their first choice at PG (Rondo is).  What if they draft Mudaiy?  If they go elsewhere, which is not improbable, that's yet another suitor down for Dragic.

NY is pretty much the same situation as LA, except that they have Calderon taking up a lot of cap space at the PG position too.  Does adding a scoring PG next to Carmelo and Calderon (who will otherwise be tough to move) make more sense than pursuing a big like Gasol?  At the end of the day, Danny would a) be able to present the biggest offer to Dragic, and b) likely not have to compete with most of Dragic's desired destinations.

There's risk, but there's also reason to believe it is anything but guaranteed that he does walk in free agency.  This, also, is why the Suns might be willing to risk keeping Dragic.  They know his list of preferred teams, and also know how likely it will be that those teams will actually make a max offer in the summer.

But this is also why I don't think we have a realistic chance even from the gambler's perspective. Reports that the C's, Rockets, and Sacramento are all willing to trade for him even though those teams aren't on his list. If the Rockets acquired him they can entice him with no income state tax, a playoff caliber squad featuring an MVP caliber player. Sacramento can even offer Rudy Gay and a young all-star big in Cousins. What exactly can Boston offer? 9 feet of snow? No national TV exposure due to lack of roster? Maybe Marcus Smart turns into an all-star in a couple of years? That Sully will go on a diet and morph into Kevin Love?

Right, but those teams want to trade for him because right now they have no way to make an offer for him in free agency.  If the Celtics do trade for Dragic, Houston and Sac will not be in the way of re-signing him.  Nor will Indiana, or several other teams rumored to be looking at trading for him.  There will be competition, and he'll get a big offer, but there is no reason to believe it will be from a team offering a preferred situation.

[hpantazo]

Here's why I think Ainge is willing to take the risk (if the price is right):

Look at the list of Dragic's top 3 teams, and consider how likely they are to actually get Dragic in free agency.

Miami simply doesn't have the cap room, and it would take a ton of maneuvering to get it.  They could sign-and-trade for Dragic, but that means the C's get something in return.

LA has the cap room to add one major player.  Is Dragic their first choice?  Second?  Third?  I don't even think he's their first choice at PG (Rondo is).  What if they draft Mudaiy?  If they go elsewhere, which is not improbable, that's yet another suitor down for Dragic.

NY is pretty much the same situation as LA, except that they have Calderon taking up a lot of cap space at the PG position too.  Does adding a scoring PG next to Carmelo and Calderon (who will otherwise be tough to move) make more sense than pursuing a big like Gasol?  At the end of the day, Danny would a) be able to present the biggest offer to Dragic, and b) likely not have to compete with most of Dragic's desired destinations.

There's risk, but there's also reason to believe it is anything but guaranteed that he does walk in free agency.  This, also, is why the Suns might be willing to risk keeping Dragic.  They know his list of preferred teams, and also know how likely it will be that those teams will actually make a max offer in the summer.

But this is also why I don't think we have a realistic chance even from the gambler's perspective. Reports that the C's, Rockets, and Sacramento are all willing to trade for him even though those teams aren't on his list. If the Rockets acquired him they can entice him with no income state tax, a playoff caliber squad featuring an MVP caliber player. Sacramento can even offer Rudy Gay and a young all-star big in Cousins. What exactly can Boston offer? 9 feet of snow? No national TV exposure due to lack of roster? Maybe Marcus Smart turns into an all-star in a couple of years? That Sully will go on a diet and morph into Kevin Love?

Dragic never said he wants a contender. He wants to get paid , and to be the main ball handler on the team. Boston can offer both of those things, more than the lakers, rockets, or Knicks can as Kobe, Harden, and Melo dominate the ball.

In addition, it speaks volumes that Ainge is willin to gamble on Dragic knowing he wants max money, but was not willing to offer Rondo he same type of money.

[TheTruthFot18]

Stein just commented that Celtics not on his list but are still a major player in trading for him.. they have the assets and cap room for long term deal.. Im sure DA knows what he is doing..

His agent has already leaked that he's perfectly fine leaving a 5th year on the table and taking a 4 yr max from NY or LA this summer.

EW. Another Melo

[RJ87]

Here's why I think Ainge is willing to take the risk (if the price is right):

Look at the list of Dragic's top 3 teams, and consider how likely they are to actually get Dragic in free agency.

Miami simply doesn't have the cap room, and it would take a ton of maneuvering to get it.  They could sign-and-trade for Dragic, but that means the C's get something in return.

LA has the cap room to add one major player.  Is Dragic their first choice?  Second?  Third?  I don't even think he's their first choice at PG (Rondo is).  What if they draft Mudaiy?  If they go elsewhere, which is not improbable, that's yet another suitor down for Dragic.

NY is pretty much the same situation as LA, except that they have Calderon taking up a lot of cap space at the PG position too.  Does adding a scoring PG next to Carmelo and Calderon (who will otherwise be tough to move) make more sense than pursuing a big like Gasol?  At the end of the day, Danny would a) be able to present the biggest offer to Dragic, and b) likely not have to compete with most of Dragic's desired destinations.

There's risk, but there's also reason to believe it is anything but guaranteed that he does walk in free agency.  This, also, is why the Suns might be willing to risk keeping Dragic.  They know his list of preferred teams, and also know how likely it will be that those teams will actually make a max offer in the summer.

But this is also why I don't think we have a realistic chance even from the gambler's perspective. Reports that the C's, Rockets, and Sacramento are all willing to trade for him even though those teams aren't on his list. If the Rockets acquired him they can entice him with no income state tax, a playoff caliber squad featuring an MVP caliber player. Sacramento can even offer Rudy Gay and a young all-star big in Cousins. What exactly can Boston offer? 9 feet of snow? No national TV exposure due to lack of roster? Maybe Marcus Smart turns into an all-star in a couple of years? That Sully will go on a diet and morph into Kevin Love?

Dragic never said he wants a contender. He wants to get paid , and to be the main ball handler on the team. Boston can offer both of those things, more than the lakers, rockets, or Knicks can as Kobe, Harden, and Melo dominate the ball.

In addition, it speaks volumes that Ainge is willin to gamble on Dragic knowing he wants max money, but was not willing to offer Rondo he same type of money.

You're right, Dragic never said he wants a contender (although it is worth noting that Woj claimed he'd likely okay a trade to Indy because of Paul George). Playing in a big market under big lights does seem to be an extremely high priority, hence the Lakers and Knicks being  1.) high on his list and 2.) places he'd be willing to take a 4 year deal if a trade isn't done. Everything involving the C's has been fairly one sided.

This is all just seems like a CP3 redux - albeit on a lesser scale. Fans frothing at the mouth to trade for a guy who to this point has shown no interest in wanting to be a Celtic. You guys go ahead with talking yourselves into walking down the aisle, but all signs point to being left at the alter. Again.

[Smartacus]

Think this is just posturing on Ange's part. Lakers and Knicks can't offer anything so Celtics come in and emerge as contenders to trade for Dragic, suddenly those pick NY, Miami and La are offering lose their protection, Carlos Boozers become Jordan Hills and why yes I would be willing to take on your worst contract(although Phoenix doesn't work really have any bad contracts-3rd team?)

Don't see any real interest from us and don't think he'd resign here.